Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated

OK I know it is a long one but give it the once over and give your honest opinion...CC for all who do




Over the years boxing has evolved into a sport of mega paydays. Money to be thrown around is there if they like to admit it or not. I know of course that many fighters do not make the mega payday's that are advertised in the papers for fighters like DLH, Tyson used to get ect..But the big high profile fights make so much money it would make your jaw drop. If they report that 5 million was grossed you can bet it is closer to 7 or 8 mil.

Boxing reform has always been a touchy subject and in all honesty one that never seems to go anywhere other then it being a cause worth fighting for......We all know of stories of ex fighters who stuck around to long or had nothing to go to after boxing and ended up on the wrong end of the tracks.....Though like I said it is a great cause and one I am for but it seems to be almost one that will always be an uphill battle sadly......

My point is this....I was approached by someone to work a different angle....If successful in even the slightest way it would be a major step towards something.....I just do not know if it would be a lost cause or not....Before commiting myself and jumping in on something just because it sounds good I would like to hear different opinions...Maybe pick up something here or there to help adjust the way to approach this...So Here it goes...as it was proposed to me.....

Obviously boxing reform is a bigger matter so it is decided to take small steps and force some adjustments...Since it is easier to have the powers that be enforce things rather then change an idea they creadted ( congress legistlative ect).l....

The idea is to petition the powers that be to force the promoters to have an insurance policy for every fighter on their card. In the event of a long term injury or death occured in the ring the promoter can and will be held liable if neglect was found to be a factor. The factors of neglect will be outlined as such.

1. The fighter injured is to be found to have been knocked out more then 3 times in the last 18 months in previous match ups

2. All fighters must undergo pre fight exams by not only a doctor of the promoters choice but an exam by an undisclosed outside physician to be named only the day of the exam

3. A fighter must under go 3 weigh in procedures. One 3 days prior to the bout, one the day befor the bout and one the day after the bout. In those weigh in procedures the fighter must not be more then 8lbs over 3 days before the fight and weigh no more then 8 pounds over the day of the fight.


If any or all of these criteria is plauseable and the promoter continues to allow the fight to take place he is 100% liable for any or all occurances that take place in the fight in which this criteria was ignored. The decision though made by the fighter to continue on with the bout all repercussions are to be compensated by the promoter.

If such accident does occur in the ring the promoter will be responsible for all medical bills, outside the monetary obligation to either compensate the injured fighter or his family with a lump sum agreed on before the bout or a continuous annual salary to compensate the fighter not being able to support himself for the duration of his life.

Failure to do so will result in immediate seizure of the promotion company, all of it's assetts. Reguardless who is named as chief financial officer of the company and the CEO of the company is liable for an undertermined jail sentence of no less then 3 years and no more then 10 years each without the possibility of parole. Also all other executives and members of the board will be stripped of their license to partyicipate in the sport of boxing in any manner for the duration.



The idea is to prevent mis match fights and to avoid fighters going into bouts at 100%...be it weight gain or what ever the case...

If the promoter is given guide lines he has to follow he will make the fighters follow certain guidelines....


Do you think it is or is not a worthy cause to get behind or do you guys think it is something that would be a failed effort???


I am up in the air on this and you guys know the sport just as well as anyone I ever have known so opinions are appreciated greatly

There's plenty of good stuff in there Daxx I absolutely agree with what you said about insurance policies for every fighter on the card and the criteria that equates to neglect. With boxing being the business it is with no main league or governing body, it is there to be exploited by promoters, unfortunately only someone who holds the cards could make the change, and the people that hold the aces are HBO, Showtime and the promoters. Who could enforce these rules? The commisions and the sanctioning bodies lack the clout because the promoter will just go to the next highest bidder.

I don't really know who would be able to make some sort of change, but it would be great for the sport if something could be done.

Without a national body, don't expect the state commissions to do much about this. California has done it in a small way, but the insurance is meager. Victo Burgos' medical bills are monster bills that were only covered to a point. Places like Kentucy, WV, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maine, Vermont, and other such states simple will not addrress these issues on thier own. Still, as the saying goes, never give up the fight for reform, even if the boxers don't say much. It's like throwing something agaisnt the wall. Maybe, just maybe, some of it will stick. As Any Rand once said, evil requires the sanction of the victim.

How do we force it on them..they are in 100% control with no federal commission. Promoters might be for it if it would help boxing's image..but I seriously think anything that is going to cause money to come out of their pockets is going to take some kind of outside help, i.e. feds...I say petition state governments, but that will take lots of signatures and groundwork to even get a bill on the agenda to be voted on....I dont know how to go about it, but I'm for it...

Excellent read Daxx and I think you'll get no one complaining of the long read. We've been poking fun at Teddy Atlas lately but no one has been championing the fight for change the way he has for the past few years. I'm all for the one change that you put forth and I would do what I could to help so don't take it wrong when I say that unless you have some heavy hitters lined up, I don't see how a petition is going to make a dent. I get the feeling you didn't just post this on a whim and that you have put a lot of time/effort it. So what's the battle plan? Count me in!

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Originally Posted by 'Big' Dan McCarthy

There's plenty of good stuff in there Daxx I absolutely agree with what you said about insurance policies for every fighter on the card and the criteria that equates to neglect. With boxing being the business it is with no main league or governing body, it is there to be exploited by promoters, unfortunately only someone who holds the cards could make the change, and the people that hold the aces are HBO, Showtime and the promoters. Who could enforce these rules? The commisions and the sanctioning bodies lack the clout because the promoter will just go to the next highest bidder.

I don't really know who would be able to make some sort of change, but it would be great for the sport if something could be done.

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CC to ya...Like I said this was not my brainstorm it was something I was approached with and asked if I would get behind it....It is still something that is being approached on who eactly to petition first....As of now I believe it will be just NY that is being targeted since it was a group of local trainers and ex fighters that approached me on the idea....

Like I sated I just wanted to get a few opinions on the topic...Sometimes something sounds good to you the once you get feedback from others you realize it was not that good of an idea in the first place

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Originally Posted by Ted The Bull

Without a national body, don't expect the state commissions to do much about this. California has done it in a small way, but the insurance is meager. Victo Burgos' medical bills are monster bills that were only covered to a point. Places like Kentucy, WV, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maine, Vermont, and other such states simple will not addrress these issues on thier own. Still, as the saying goes, never give up the fight for reform, even if the boxers don't say much. It's like throwing something agaisnt the wall. Maybe, just maybe, some of it will stick. As Any Rand once said, evil requires the sanction of the victim.

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Agreed Ted....And you should know a bit about the good fight towards reform you are the first to speak for it.....It is as I said an uphill battle that may never make it but we have to keep trying.....

As far as the insurance goes I believe (This was just proposed to me on Saturday and I am going to a meeting later this week for more detailed outline and plan of attack)...It is proposed that it is a mandatory of up to 1 million dollars aside from the other compensation.....

It will also be insurance the is required to have proof of before the card is sanctioned...Something I have seen done in the amateurs at certain places.....

Will it fix everything? NO will some med bills exceed the mark? Yes but it is better then nothing...At least gives the fighter and his family time to find a better method of arranging something....

The whole picture is more of a prevention then anything...Less mis-matches,,,less guys having to suck weight to make fights....ect...all factors in injuries.....if the penalty outweighs the gain then who knows maybe things will be avoided in the long run to cut down on such things in the first place

CC for the input Ted

Somw interesting ideas in there but I wander how workable some of them are.

I mean for example making a promoter liable if a fighter has been KO'd 3 times in 18 months. How does that work then, would it mean that such a fighter would have to retire? Or would have wait for a predetermined time period say 24 months before being allowed to box again?

And why should the promoter be liable in this case? Surely if a fighter is passed fit by a medical body then he's fit to fight no? ???

Also, and I appreciate the sport could do more to support fighters, but why is the onus always on promoters and governing bodies to make sure a fighter is insured in the event of an accident?

Can a boxer not take out private insurance? If I was a boxer I would even think of entering the ring unless I had insurance. Let's face it most of us wouldn't want to risk driving our cars without insurance irrespective of it being against the law, and I'm sure most of us have home insurance.

Shouldn't a fighter have insurance as well. I agree their promoters and managers should sort this for them but if not then surely a boxer should do it off their own back anyway just in case? :-\

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Originally Posted by No Contest

How do we force it on them..they are in 100% control with no federal commission. Promoters might be for it if it would help boxing's image..but I seriously think anything that is going to cause money to come out of their pockets is going to take some kind of outside help, i.e. feds...I say petition state governments, but that will take lots of signatures and groundwork to even get a bill on the agenda to be voted on....I dont know how to go about it, but I'm for it...

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CC for the input...No there is no fed commission but this is why it is being approached in one spot to start at....The idea is to make it mandatory for the insurance to be proven before the sanction is given....Also that is why there are only a few criteria in it...make it less difficult and keep it kind of cut and dry.....

There are simular things for other sports where insurance is mandatory...also that is why it will state things about weight ect....how many times have we seen fighters even big names put on bad performances and get beaten by guys they should be able to beat due to being weight drained ect...

This will cut down on such things....EG guys who gain 10-15 pounds between fights

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Originally Posted by slk123

Excellent read Daxx and I think you'll get no one complaining of the long read. We've been poking fun at Teddy Atlas lately but no one has been championing the fight for change the way he has for the past few years. I'm all for the one change that you put forth and I would do what I could to help so don't take it wrong when I say that unless you have some heavy hitters lined up, I don't see how a petition is going to make a dent. I get the feeling you didn't just post this on a whim and that you have put a lot of time/effort it. So what's the battle plan? Count me in!

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CC I am going to a meeting for more detailed outline this was just the gist of it so to speak....once I get full details I will let everyone know....I have been thinking about it a few days...don't want to jump into something just because it sounds good that why I am trying to get opinions from everyone

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Somw interesting ideas in there but I wander how workable some of them are.

I mean for example making a promoter liable if a fighter has been KO'd 3 times in 18 months. How does that work then, would it mean that such a fighter would have to retire? Or would have wait for a predetermined time period say 24 months before being allowed to box again?

And why should the promoter be liable in this case? Surely if a fighter is passed fit by a medical body then he's fit to fight no? ???

Also, and I appreciate the sport could do more to support fighters, but why is the onus always on promoters and governing bodies to make sure a fighter is insured in the event of an accident?

Can a boxer not take out private insurance? If I was a boxer I would even think of entering the ring unless I had insurance. Let's face it most of us wouldn't want to risk driving our cars without insurance irrespective of it being against the law, and I'm sure most of us have home insurance.

Shouldn't a fighter have insurance as well. I agree their promoters and managers should sort this for them but if not then surely a boxer should do it off their own back anyway just in case? :-\

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As far as the 3 KO's in 18 months go we all know that doctors who work for promoters will say a guy is healthy even if he is wheelchair bound and blind...

EG Tommy Morrison was not tested by state official doctors bvefore being allowed to fight again...he got a piece of paper from a guy who may have been promised who knows what to say the test were neg

Also boxing is a sport of need....fighters will fight whenever they can reguardless unless they are already in the big money....It cuts down on gross mis-matches...a place where many fighters are injured....Many that do not make the papers or news....

As for fighters having their own insurance...The NFL has a plan in case players are hurt,,same goes for NBA, MLB, or any other major sport..That is beside the players personal insurance.....

The topic has nothing to do with the fighters insuring them selves has to do with them being protected in case of injury in the ring...

BTW a guy wh earns 400 for a night in the ring and works a 9-5 usually can not afford such insurance

CC for the input

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Originally Posted by Ted The Bull

Without a national body, don't expect the state commissions to do much about this. California has done it in a small way, but the insurance is meager. Victo Burgos' medical bills are monster bills that were only covered to a point. Places like Kentucy, WV, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maine, Vermont, and other such states simple will not addrress these issues on thier own. Still, as the saying goes, never give up the fight for reform, even if the boxers don't say much. It's like throwing something agaisnt the wall. Maybe, just maybe, some of it will stick. As Any Rand once said, evil requires the sanction of the victim.

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I don't know if it's because you have posted on the subject before or if Daxx let a secret (maybe not) out of the bag when he alluded to the fact that you were the one who started the fight for reform but your post does have a familiar ring to the way it is written. If I'm out of line I'll modify/erase my post but am I to assume you are the REAL Teddy Atlas?

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

As I have been championing before, fighters should have insurance in case they become invalid or when they decide to retire.

Boxing has so many world champions(title holders) that are suffering from extreme poverty. Take the case of Luisito Espinosa (from the Philippines). After he was defrauded by some organizers, he became virtually bankrupt. What has his boxing organization (WBC) done for him? These boxing organizations are simply forgetting what these boxers had contributed to them.

Boxers should be given retirement benefit for all that they have done. They are killing themselves in this sport to entertain us but it seems that people are not concerned on them after their retirement.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

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I'd be thinking more along these lines too. Once litigation and blame start to become factors the lawyers get their grubby hands on the money anyway. I would think some form of external body, whether it a boxers 'union' or some other group could be entrusted with funds to assist fighters after injury or retirement. If the various WBABC's & IBF's etc were to be made to put aside a percentage of $$ from the largest fights that occur each year this would put a significant amount of money aside to support injured or retired boxers. If former boxers were to promote something like this I could see it getting somewhere.

In addition it would be most helpful for fighters to have support from promoters and the HBO's of the world to spend time and money looking at what will their fighters do after their career is over. Invest in some education and training for fighters in managing money and in other vocations so that when retirement comes either enforced due to illness or injury or by choice there is something to look forward to. There wont be too many ODLH's and the vast majority of fighters wont make anywhere near the money he did/does boxing and not all of them can be promoters (It takes a special breed of greed). However I pitty the poor guy trying to teach James Toney accountancy or something ("That don't add up BITCH" - POW) but it's a thought.

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Originally Posted by brucelee

As I have been championing before, fighters should have insurance in case they become invalid or when they decide to retire.

Boxing has so many world champions(title holders) that are suffering from extreme poverty. Take the case of Luisito Espinosa (from the Philippines). After he was defrauded by some organizers, he became virtually bankrupt. What has his boxing organization (WBC) done for him? These boxing organizations are simply forgetting what these boxers had contributed to them.

Boxers should be given retirement benefit for all that they have done. They are killing themselves in this sport to entertain us but it seems that people are not concerned on them after their retirement.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

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I'd be thinking more along these lines too. Once litigation and blame start to become factors the lawyers get their grubby hands on the money anyway. I would think some form of external body, whether it a boxers 'union' or some other group could be entrusted with funds to assist fighters after injury or retirement. If the various WBABC's & IBF's etc were to be made to put aside a percentage of $$ from the largest fights that occur each year this would put a significant amount of money aside to support injured or retired boxers. If former boxers were to promote something like this I could see it getting somewhere.

In addition it would be most helpful for fighters to have support from promoters and the HBO's of the world to spend time and money looking at what will their fighters do after their career is over. Invest in some education and training for fighters in managing money and in other vocations so that when retirement comes either enforced due to illness or injury or by choice there is something to look forward to. There wont be too many ODLH's and the vast majority of fighters wont make anywhere near the money he did/does boxing and not all of them can be promoters (It takes a special breed of greed). However I pitty the poor guy trying to teach James Toney accountancy or something ("That don't add up BITCH" - POW) but it's a thought.

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CC's For your input

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

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CC for the input

Whoever mentioned the Boxers Union, I think theres something there.
I'm also sure the people from Canastota would be happy to hear and somehow help out in something like this.

how could an up and coming boxer learn the trade of prop boxing without the pewople who hav been knocked out there last 4 or 5 fights... its natrul it happens i think you need these boxers to make the ones wiyth potential what they are today. tyson didnt start out by beating berbick, he beat alot of nobodys b4, people who had been koed.

cc for starting this thread.

I think the constant improvement of our sport and the consideration of the sports participants is an essential issue that needs to be addressed more, not only by ourselves but also by the various sanctioning bodies and organisations presiding over the fight game.
Boxing can be a brutal sport indefinitely, but in my opinion health problems are most likely to occur as a result of the preparations a fighter undergoes. Diego Corrales was often quoted on how he starved himself for a week before a fight and prayed for food before the Castillo fight. This could not have been healthy for a man in preparation for the most attritional bout of modern times. Perhaps the sanctioning body could control this situation by providing an official at-camp to monitor the fighters health?

As regards money, i once heard Michael Spinks once he got paid invested most of his money in time released accounts so as it would last him until the end of his days. Perhaps managers should formulate a sort of pension fund, taking a percentage of a fighters purse and inserting it into a specialised account which would be disclosed at an agreed time.

An imo ALL fighters should undergo an annual physical standardised and agreed by all bodies, proving not only sufficient fitness and muscular condition but also investigating possible cardiac, respiatory and cranial problems which could be greatly worsened by competing in the sport of boxing.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

OK I know it is a long one but give it the once over and give your honest opinion...CC for all who do




Over the years boxing has evolved into a sport of mega paydays. Money to be thrown around is there if they like to admit it or not. I know of course that many fighters do not make the mega payday's that are advertised in the papers for fighters like DLH, Tyson used to get ect..But the big high profile fights make so much money it would make your jaw drop. If they report that 5 million was grossed you can bet it is closer to 7 or 8 mil.

Boxing reform has always been a touchy subject and in all honesty one that never seems to go anywhere other then it being a cause worth fighting for......We all know of stories of ex fighters who stuck around to long or had nothing to go to after boxing and ended up on the wrong end of the tracks.....Though like I said it is a great cause and one I am for but it seems to be almost one that will always be an uphill battle sadly......

My point is this....I was approached by someone to work a different angle....If successful in even the slightest way it would be a major step towards something.....I just do not know if it would be a lost cause or not....Before commiting myself and jumping in on something just because it sounds good I would like to hear different opinions...Maybe pick up something here or there to help adjust the way to approach this...So Here it goes...as it was proposed to me.....

Obviously boxing reform is a bigger matter so it is decided to take small steps and force some adjustments...Since it is easier to have the powers that be enforce things rather then change an idea they creadted ( congress legistlative ect).l....

The idea is to petition the powers that be to force the promoters to have an insurance policy for every fighter on their card. In the event of a long term injury or death occured in the ring the promoter can and will be held liable if neglect was found to be a factor. The factors of neglect will be outlined as such.

1. The fighter injured is to be found to have been knocked out more then 3 times in the last 18 months in previous match ups

2. All fighters must undergo pre fight exams by not only a doctor of the promoters choice but an exam by an undisclosed outside physician to be named only the day of the exam

3. A fighter must under go 3 weigh in procedures. One 3 days prior to the bout, one the day befor the bout and one the day after the bout. In those weigh in procedures the fighter must not be more then 8lbs over 3 days before the fight and weigh no more then 8 pounds over the day of the fight.


If any or all of these criteria is plauseable and the promoter continues to allow the fight to take place he is 100% liable for any or all occurances that take place in the fight in which this criteria was ignored. The decision though made by the fighter to continue on with the bout all repercussions are to be compensated by the promoter.

If such accident does occur in the ring the promoter will be responsible for all medical bills, outside the monetary obligation to either compensate the injured fighter or his family with a lump sum agreed on before the bout or a continuous annual salary to compensate the fighter not being able to support himself for the duration of his life.

Failure to do so will result in immediate seizure of the promotion company, all of it's assetts. Reguardless who is named as chief financial officer of the company and the CEO of the company is liable for an undertermined jail sentence of no less then 3 years and no more then 10 years each without the possibility of parole. Also all other executives and members of the board will be stripped of their license to partyicipate in the sport of boxing in any manner for the duration.



The idea is to prevent mis match fights and to avoid fighters going into bouts at 100%...be it weight gain or what ever the case...

If the promoter is given guide lines he has to follow he will make the fighters follow certain guidelines....


Do you think it is or is not a worthy cause to get behind or do you guys think it is something that would be a failed effort???


I am up in the air on this and you guys know the sport just as well as anyone I ever have known so opinions are appreciated greatly

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Wont work
A)What is a knockout?
Because a TKO can happen at the refs call,and is very rarely an actual knockout
B)Most promoters are allready carrying insuarance for the fighters,anymore would make small fights cost prohibitive
C)Most states allready call for a pre-fight exam
D)The added expense would more or less wipe out the lower level fights,guys dont get to 17-0 by fighting on HBO,and ESPN,they get there by fighting for $100 a round,and $100 winners bonus

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by brucelee

As I have been championing before, fighters should have insurance in case they become invalid or when they decide to retire.

Boxing has so many world champions(title holders) that are suffering from extreme poverty. Take the case of Luisito Espinosa (from the Philippines). After he was defrauded by some organizers, he became virtually bankrupt. What has his boxing organization (WBC) done for him? These boxing organizations are simply forgetting what these boxers had contributed to them.

Boxers should be given retirement benefit for all that they have done. They are killing themselves in this sport to entertain us but it seems that people are not concerned on them after their retirement.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

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I'd be thinking more along these lines too. Once litigation and blame start to become factors the lawyers get their grubby hands on the money anyway. I would think some form of external body, whether it a boxers 'union' or some other group could be entrusted with funds to assist fighters after injury or retirement. If the various WBABC's & IBF's etc were to be made to put aside a percentage of $$ from the largest fights that occur each year this would put a significant amount of money aside to support injured or retired boxers. If former boxers were to promote something like this I could see it getting somewhere.

In addition it would be most helpful for fighters to have support from promoters and the HBO's of the world to spend time and money looking at what will their fighters do after their career is over. Invest in some education and training for fighters in managing money and in other vocations so that when retirement comes either enforced due to illness or injury or by choice there is something to look forward to. There wont be too many ODLH's and the vast majority of fighters wont make anywhere near the money he did/does boxing and not all of them can be promoters (It takes a special breed of greed). However I pitty the poor guy trying to teach James Toney accountancy or something ("That don't add up BITCH" - POW) but it's a thought.

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CC's For your input

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And one for you for the thread. This kind of discussion is needed in boxing in order for it to be continued to be accepted as a mainstream sport. Every other sport has indusrty funded/initiated welfare programs why not boxing when it is one of the higher risk sports and draws from the working class cultures where people generally band together to help each other out. I think boxing people are good at this but as an "industry/sport" maybe not so good.

Brilliant in principle but would not be practicle...First and prob biggest obstacle would be getting some thing written up that all governing bodies agree with ... they cant even agree on the top ten fighters.. :badass:

So even with the promoters and boxers backing the governing bodies would still be arguing come armmagedon...

In meantime more accidents tragedy's and so on....

The boxer himself needs his insurance to cover his ass as much as is possible..

Hope this helps a little, but its only as I see it.. :beerchug:

check out J.A.B

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Whoever mentioned the Boxers Union, I think theres something there.
I'm also sure the people from Canastota would be happy to hear and somehow help out in something like this.

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CC for the input

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

how could an up and coming boxer learn the trade of prop boxing without the pewople who hav been knocked out there last 4 or 5 fights... its natrul it happens i think you need these boxers to make the ones wiyth potential what they are today. tyson didnt start out by beating berbick, he beat alot of nobodys b4, people who had been koed.

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The if they have been KO'd three times in 18 months there needs to be the mandatory suspension time for the body to recover....The whole idea is to also protect the no name fighters who really do not belong in the ring and are used as punching bags...sometimes the fighter does not know what is best for himself...

CC for the input

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I think the constant improvement of our sport and the consideration of the sports participants is an essential issue that needs to be addressed more, not only by ourselves but also by the various sanctioning bodies and organisations presiding over the fight game.
Boxing can be a brutal sport indefinitely, but in my opinion health problems are most likely to occur as a result of the preparations a fighter undergoes. Diego Corrales was often quoted on how he starved himself for a week before a fight and prayed for food before the Castillo fight. This could not have been healthy for a man in preparation for the most attritional bout of modern times. Perhaps the sanctioning body could control this situation by providing an official at-camp to monitor the fighters health?

As regards money, i once heard Michael Spinks once he got paid invested most of his money in time released accounts so as it would last him until the end of his days. Perhaps managers should formulate a sort of pension fund, taking a percentage of a fighters purse and inserting it into a specialised account which would be disclosed at an agreed time.

An imo ALL fighters should undergo an annual physical standardised and agreed by all bodies, proving not only sufficient fitness and muscular condition but also investigating possible cardiac, respiatory and cranial problems which could be greatly worsened by competing in the sport of boxing.

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CC for the input....Diego Corrales is a perfect example of how guys would destroy themselves trying to make weight....That puts just as much wear and tear on the body if not more then thye actual fight at times....If the body is healthy it has a better chance to recover...the body is weak and defficiant of the things it needs and then takes a beating ages the body more......Diego was what 29-30 and self admittingly could not do it anymore

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

OK I know it is a long one but give it the once over and give your honest opinion...CC for all who do




Over the years boxing has evolved into a sport of mega paydays. Money to be thrown around is there if they like to admit it or not. I know of course that many fighters do not make the mega payday's that are advertised in the papers for fighters like DLH, Tyson used to get ect..But the big high profile fights make so much money it would make your jaw drop. If they report that 5 million was grossed you can bet it is closer to 7 or 8 mil.

Boxing reform has always been a touchy subject and in all honesty one that never seems to go anywhere other then it being a cause worth fighting for......We all know of stories of ex fighters who stuck around to long or had nothing to go to after boxing and ended up on the wrong end of the tracks.....Though like I said it is a great

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Wont work
A)What is a knockout?
Because a TKO can happen at the refs call,and is very rarely an actual knockout
B)Most promoters are allready carrying insuarance for the fighters,anymore would make small fights cost prohibitive
C)Most states allready call for a pre-fight exam
D)The added expense would more or less wipe out the lower level fights,guys dont get to 17-0 by fighting on HBO,and ESPN,they get there by fighting for $100 a round,and $100 winners bonus

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A KO or TKO would be considered the same thing....The insurance promoters carry has nothing to do with the fighters themselves being injured due to neglect.....The pre fight exam is a joke and consisit of blood pressure weight a quick look at the eyes to see how they focus and pretty much is about it in most cases

The insurance expense would more then likely be a roll over policy that carries card to card,,,,and that is also why there would be only certain things outlined...not saying that the insurance will cover a fighter if he is injured only if something serious happens when neglecting the outlined criteria......If the promoters are strickter on weight issues like those outlined then it would force fighters to take care of themselves better as well.....Nothing stopping promoters from saying in a contract you fail to meet weight you are fined...eg the 8 lb difference

CC for your input

And one for you for the thread. This kind of discussion is needed in boxing in order for it to be continued to be accepted as a mainstream sport. Every other sport has indusrty funded/initiated welfare programs why not boxing when it is one of the higher risk sports and draws from the working class cultures where people generally band together to help each other out. I think boxing people are good at this but as an "industry/sport" maybe not so good.
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In truth boxing has less serious career ending injuries to healthy participants then almost every other sport in the long run....Problem with boxing is and always has been that it is a sport of need not want in most cases...guys fight because they need the money at first it is a means to an end so to speak and it is exploited by guys

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Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

Brilliant in principle but would not be practicle...First and prob biggest obstacle would be getting some thing written up that all governing bodies agree with ... they cant even agree on the top ten fighters.. :badass:

So even with the promoters and boxers backing the governing bodies would still be arguing come armmagedon...

In meantime more accidents tragedy's and so on....

The boxer himself needs his insurance to cover his a** as much as is possible..

Hope this helps a little, but its only as I see it.. :beerchug:

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The point is not to ask the governing bodies...make it a law and that is that.....if it was as easy as approaching the governing bodies we would have reform already no?

CC for the input

Very good topic....this is a problem in a lot of high impact sports and it makes me think about personal responsiblity more than anything. The ideas in this thread are all good but i have to belive that with all the money some of these big fighters make where long term health is really a concern instead of buying 14 houses and a ton of bmw's some money should be set aside for your own future....the only problem with that is what about the guys who take a beating and never really get the big payday hhhmmm sorry guys i don't think i've solved anything but this is a really good topic for me it's just that there a ton of athleats who are injured for the remainder of thier lives and broke but then again there are a ton who aren't you gotta take care of yourself no one else will.

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Originally Posted by Mar

Very good topic....this is a problem in a lot of high impact sports and it makes me think about personal responsiblity more than anything. The ideas in this thread are all good but i have to belive that with all the money some of these big fighters make where long term health is really a concern instead of buying 14 houses and a ton of bmw's some money should be set aside for your own future....the only problem with that is what about the guys who take a beating and never really get the big payday hhhmmm sorry guys i don't think i've solved anything but this is a really good topic for me it's just that there a ton of athleats who are injured for the remainder of thier lives and broke but then again there are a ton who aren't you gotta take care of yourself no one else will.

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CC for the input

Sorry i didn't have much to offer, but i do feel for the guys going through this type of problems.

I think you've got some good ideas there. Some of it I don't think could ever happen but as a starting proposal I think it makes sense. I don't think the mandatory jail time is realistic and the outside doctor. I like the idea of a federal law requiring certain levels insurance and having the grounds for coverage. Building careers off nobodies is not more important than keeping the 'nobodies' from permanent damage or death. Maybe that could also be a small step towards making records a little more meaningful.

Dealing with all of the individual states would be a big challenge but maybe if someone could get the ball rolling in a big boxing state like NY then other states might follow.

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Originally Posted by Mar

Sorry i didn't have much to offer, but i do feel for the guys going through this type of problems.

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No need to be sorry at all mate....any and all input be it agree or disagree is appreciated...thats why I started the thread to get some input from those who count most to everyone the fans....it is the fans that pay for the fights that line the pocket of all involved....It is their opinion that counts

A KO or TKO would be considered the same thing....The insurance promoters carry has nothing to do with the fighters themselves being injured due to neglect.....The pre fight exam is a joke and consisit of blood pressure weight a quick look at the eyes to see how they focus and pretty much is about it in most cases

The insurance expense would more then likely be a roll over policy that carries card to card,,,,and that is also why there would be only certain things outlined...not saying that the insurance will cover a fighter if he is injured only if something serious happens when neglecting the outlined criteria......If the promoters are strickter on weight issues like those outlined then it would force fighters to take care of themselves better as well.....Nothing stopping promoters from saying in a contract you fail to meet weight you are fined...eg the 8 lb difference

CC for your input



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There are two rubs
A)Youve just handed way to much discretion to a ref,one bad stoppage,and your out of your ability to make a living.Lets face it,crappy stoppages happen constantly
B) Lisence standards are not universal,and theres no way to get them to be,the individual states wont give up the leeway
In Virginia for example,all they ask for is a sports physical.In California,and Pennsylvania they run you through a barrage before the lisence and sanction you,including an EKG and a Catsacan

Thats the thing with boxing,there is no unniversaly recognised governing body

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There are two rubs
A)Youve just handed way to much discretion to a ref,one bad stoppage,and your out of your ability to make a living.Lets face it,crappy stoppages happen constantly
B) Lisence standards are not universal,and theres no way to get them to be,the individual states wont give up the leeway
In Virginia for example,all they ask for is a sports physical.In California,and Pennsylvania they run you through a barrage before the lisence and sanction you,including an EKG and a Catsacan

Thats the thing with boxing,there is no unniversaly recognised governing body

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Are we talking about ending careers or just saying you can't fight if you've had three knockouts in 18 months? You made a good point about tko's for cuts, etc. But it seems reasonable to say that a fighter needs should not be getting knocked out on a regular basis over a number of years. Even if the rule was that you can't have had three knockouts within last 18 months and you'd had three over a 17 month span then you just need to wait another month to fight. If you keep getting knocked out at least they would be spaced out a little more. And maybe its 4 within 18 months or 3 within a year... the details could change so that people can still make their living, but IMO the idea is sound.

As for the licensing, if there could be a federal law requiring the insurance it would probably be the most efficient way of dealing with all the commitees at once.

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Originally Posted by Gutbuster

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There are two rubs
A)Youve just handed way to much discretion to a ref,one bad stoppage,and your out of your ability to make a living.Lets face it,crappy stoppages happen constantly
B) Lisence standards are not universal,and theres no way to get them to be,the individual states wont give up the leeway
In Virginia for example,all they ask for is a sports physical.In California,and Pennsylvania they run you through a barrage before the lisence and sanction you,including an EKG and a Catsacan

Thats the thing with boxing,there is no unniversaly recognised governing body

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Are we talking about ending careers or just saying you can't fight if you've had three knockouts in 18 months? You made a good point about tko's for cuts, etc. But it seems reasonable to say that a fighter needs should not be getting knocked out on a regular basis over a number of years. Even if the rule was that you can't have had three knockouts within last 18 months and you'd had three over a 17 month span then you just need to wait another month to fight. If you keep getting knocked out at least they would be spaced out a little more. And maybe its 4 within 18 months or 3 within a year... the details could change so that people can still make their living, but IMO the idea is sound.

As for the licensing, if there could be a federal law requiring the insurance it would probably be the most efficient way of dealing with all the commitees at once.

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If you keep getting dropped,most states wont sanction you anymore
Cali has a 30 day no contact at all rule after a KO/TKO

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Are we talking about ending careers or just saying you can't fight if you've had three knockouts in 18 months? You made a good point about tko's for cuts, etc. But it seems reasonable to say that a fighter needs should not be getting knocked out on a regular basis over a number of years. Even if the rule was that you can't have had three knockouts within last 18 months and you'd had three over a 17 month span then you just need to wait another month to fight. If you keep getting knocked out at least they would be spaced out a little more. And maybe its 4 within 18 months or 3 within a year... the details could change so that people can still make their living, but IMO the idea is sound.

As for the licensing, if there could be a federal law requiring the insurance it would probably be the most efficient way of dealing with all the commitees at once.
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CC for the input

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Gutbuster

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There are two rubs
A)Youve just handed way to much discretion to a ref,one bad stoppage,and your out of your ability to make a living.Lets face it,crappy stoppages happen constantly
B) Lisence standards are not universal,and theres no way to get them to be,the individual states wont give up the leeway
In Virginia for example,all they ask for is a sports physical.In California,and Pennsylvania they run you through a barrage before the lisence and sanction you,including an EKG and a Catsacan

Thats the thing with boxing,there is no unniversaly recognised governing body

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Are we talking about ending careers or just saying you can't fight if you've had three knockouts in 18 months? You made a good point about tko's for cuts, etc. But it seems reasonable to say that a fighter needs should not be getting knocked out on a regular basis over a number of years. Even if the rule was that you can't have had three knockouts within last 18 months and you'd had three over a 17 month span then you just need to wait another month to fight. If you keep getting knocked out at least they would be spaced out a little more. And maybe its 4 within 18 months or 3 within a year... the details could change so that people can still make their living, but IMO the idea is sound.

As for the licensing, if there could be a federal law requiring the insurance it would probably be the most efficient way of dealing with all the commitees at once.

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If you keep getting dropped,most states wont sanction you anymore
Cali has a 30 day no contact at all rule after a KO/TKO

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I see that rule broken all the time everywhere. Besides you are getting off topic and starting to argue different things such as this state does this and that state does that ect....Ref makes bad stoppages ect...almost like you are making excuses for things to happen....Question was just a point on certain things and if people thought it was a cause worth persuing no one mentioned re altering the sport....

Virgina the state you speak of let a guy who was KO'd and TKO'd in 5 of his last 6 fights and has not had a win since 2001...your going to tell me this guy is not a punching bag?....And besides cat scans do not always show things and EKG's are usually only accurate at the time of a problem EG if your having a heart attack an EKG will show the heart movement...when you are OK again the EKG will show normality....

Same as a catscan....

There are lots of professional tomatos out there,they oil the gears of the sport
Im not getting off of topic really Daxx
Im pointing out that what your hitting at is un-enforcable
And even if it was,allowing a TKO to count allows for all kinds of back door shennanigans,same as PA's stupid Morality clause in the lisencing process
And as far as it goes the 4 states that are notorious for putting on shaky fights,Virginia is one of them.And they arent going to change without National oversite
And since there isnt any,and any national set of rules is going to be challenged both internationally,and in the courts by the states who count on the license fees,it wont work
I could get a corpse booked in LA,so they make plenty on their license fees.
You think they arent going to challenge national oversite?
You have to work five times as hard to get one booked in PA,theyre going to challenge the national oversite if its too weak

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There are lots of professional tomatos out there,they oil the gears of the sport
Im not getting off of topic really Daxx
Im pointing out that what your hitting at is un-enforcable
And even if it was,allowing a TKO to count allows for all kinds of back door shennanigans,same as PA's stupid Morality clause in the lisencing process
And as far as it goes the 4 states that are notorious for putting on shaky fights,Virginia is one of them.And they arent going to change without National oversite
And since there isnt any,and any national set of rules is going to be challenged both internationally,and in the courts by the states who count on the license fees,it wont work
I could get a corpse booked in LA,so they make plenty on their license fees.
You think they arent going to challenge national oversite?
You have to work five times as hard to get one booked in PA,theyre going to challenge the national oversite if its too weak

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Thanks for the input