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Margarito resurfaces!!!!
http://www.fightnews.com/leon39.htm
Ths fight really brngs a smile to Gamo's face. I thought Margarito was done but he is most certainly here to stay and sooner or later,he will rematch that slapping bitch Williams and if he lives up to his promise to start earlier,he will win. But first things first,bring on Cintron!
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Agreed. It isnt as though Williams utilised his reach to his own natural advantages the whole time anyways. If he did then he would be nigh on unhittable! ;D
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
I agree 100%. Mayweather aside, Paul Williams is the man to beat in this division. Too bad he is still not much of a draw. But give him time, he'll get there.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.
Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.
Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.
"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here? ::**
Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.
He should possibly wait 4 years. ;D ::**
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
You owned the thread. :coolclick:, for a quality posting. :)
Spot on ;)
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
CC, way to set things straight.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.
Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.
"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here? ::**
Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.
He should possibly wait 4 years. ;D ::**
Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things. And it is a rich division but again,like I said,the PW camp don't want Kermit and they don't want Tony,everyone else is tied up and Margarito gave him a shot. Margarito doesn't need to build back up to anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
You owned the thread. :coolclick:, for a quality posting. :)
Spot on ;)
Calm down Miles,stop getting over excited. He made his points well as did I,neither of us got over excited and no-one owned anything.
Left Hook,Margarito does usually start slow but he sees its a problem,I'm sure he can address firstly and secondly,he doesn't start THAT slow.He actually stopped quite a few guys early like Kyvelos,6 heads,etc so he can get going quicker(I wish he had!) Also,I pointed out Margarito's defence because Williams,regardless of the purpose of his high output,was getting most of his punches blocked. This was part of Margarito's gameplan and that's why he didn't throw as many shots as he usually does. As for Williams punches,I just think that there were so many at the beginning that Margarito was taking time to adjust to them,in the rematch,he knows whats going to happen and so won't need that time. I also disagree,I think PW was at least a little hurt in the 11th but showed great heart to come back in the 12th. Finally,as for saying what does PW gain,well a good paycheck is one thing as Magarito is a good draw in that area. Second,and I know there is little of it around in boxing but he'll be doing an honourbale thing because Margarito went through the courts to fight him and so PW can at least return the favour. Thirdly,all the other top names are tied up so it's either fight Margarito(assuming Tony does not fight Cintron) or fight a no-name guy?
I certainly see your points and they are indeed valid but I think Margarito starting early,with more bodywork would have beaten PW and still can. It's also based on how you score fights. Sure PW was throwing more but if Margarito let his hands go more early on and even you acknowledged that he appeared to be heavier handed,then he can win. I mean the scorecards were close too soo another round here and there and Margarito can win the fight.
You have your opinion and I guess I have mine.I hope one day they meet again so we see who's right!
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
What would be the point of a rematch at this point, besides to satisfy the bruised ego of Margarito. Williams clearly won the fight and there wasn't any controversy besides the ones manufactured by Margarito fanboys. And I say fanboys because fans of Margarito know he lost but also know he put up a great show and will come back, fanboys are too obsessed with Margarito to see the difference.
Also judge the fight on its own merit. I hear people saying "if Margarito started faster" well if he did then we have a different fight don't we? If he started faster their is a chance he could of won, but a chance is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what other factors would have come in to play.
Williams went for volume of punches, Margarito went for power, in a fight where neither fighter went to the canvas landed more will probably win you the fight. Also neither fighter looked troubled at anytime in this fight.
Also shouldn't the true thorn in his flesh be Daniel Santos? Both times they fought a cut stopped the fight. One was ruled a No Contest and the second one was a Technical Decision for Daniel Santos. Seems to me that there is more history and controversy in their fights than with a clear cut win by Williams.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.
Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.
115-113 is being a bit generous to Margarito Williams won 12th round and i would pick Williams to win rematch he beat Margarito quite easily in terms of scoring i think Margarito was suprised to see someone outpunching him and it neutrilized Margaritos attack.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.
Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.
"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here? ::**
Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.
He should possibly wait 4 years. ;D ::**
Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things. And it is a rich division but again,like I said,the PW camp don't want Kermit and they don't want Tony,everyone else is tied up and Margarito gave him a shot. Margarito doesn't need to build back up to anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
You owned the thread. :coolclick:, for a quality posting. :)
Spot on ;)
Calm down Miles,stop getting over excited. He made his points well as did I,neither of us got over excited and no-one owned anything.
Left Hook,Margarito does usually start slow but he sees its a problem,I'm sure he can address firstly and secondly,he doesn't start THAT slow.He actually stopped quite a few guys early like Kyvelos,6 heads,etc so he can get going quicker(I wish he had!) Also,I pointed out Margarito's defence because Williams,regardless of the purpose of his high output,was getting most of his punches blocked. This was part of Margarito's gameplan and that's why he didn't throw as many shots as he usually does. As for Williams punches,I just think that there were so many at the beginning that Margarito was taking time to adjust to them,in the rematch,he knows whats going to happen and so won't need that time. I also disagree,I think PW was at least a little hurt in the 11th but showed great heart to come back in the 12th. Finally,as for saying what does PW gain,well a good paycheck is one thing as Magarito is a good draw in that area. Second,and I know there is little of it around in boxing but he'll be doing an honourbale thing because Margarito went through the courts to fight him and so PW can at least return the favour. Thirdly,all the other top names are tied up so it's either fight Margarito(assuming Tony does not fight Cintron) or fight a no-name guy?
I certainly see your points and they are indeed valid but I think Margarito starting early,with more bodywork would have beaten PW and still can. It's also based on how you score fights. Sure PW was throwing more but if Margarito let his hands go more early on and even you acknowledged that he appeared to be heavier handed,then he can win. I mean the scorecards were close too soo another round here and there and Margarito can win the fight.
You have your opinion and I guess I have mine.I hope one day they meet again so we see who's right!
Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things.
How do they have better view than what we have on tele ?? and if they scored the fight for Margarito then they don't know how to score a fight because theres no way on earth Margarito won the fight.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swice
What would be the point of a rematch at this point, besides to satisfy the bruised ego of Margarito. Williams clearly won the fight and there wasn't any controversy besides the ones manufactured by Margarito fanboys. And I say fanboys because fans of Margarito know he lost but also know he put up a great show and will come back, fanboys are too obsessed with Margarito to see the difference.
Also judge the fight on its own merit. I hear people saying "if Margarito started faster" well if he did then we have a different fight don't we? If he started faster their is a chance he could of won, but a chance is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what other factors would have come in to play.
Williams went for volume of punches, Margarito went for power, in a fight where neither fighter went to the canvas landed more will probably win you the fight. Also neither fighter looked troubled at anytime in this fight.
Also shouldn't the true thorn in his flesh be Daniel Santos? Both times they fought a cut stopped the fight. One was ruled a No Contest and the second one was a Technical Decision for Daniel Santos. Seems to me that there is more history and controversy in their fights than with a clear cut win by Williams.
Stop talking nonsense. Nobody is causing a controversy. I'm merely saying a rematch should happen at some point because Tony deerves it. To say there should not be a rematch when:
Margarito went through dam litigation to give PW a fight when he didn't have to(although some idiots here were saying Tony was "ducking" PW)
It was a close fight.
There have been rematches were guys were KTFO.
If there is not going to be a rematch at this point,then I definitely don't mind but if there is,I don't see where all this BS about Margarito has to work his way back,what would the point be nonsense comes from.
It's got nothing to do with being a Margarito "fanboy",I was the one of the first to come hear and congratulate PW and say he won. And why should Santos be his thorn? Tony is a natural 147 pounder,went up and lost in a fight most thought he won. He doesn't want to go back to 154,not yet anyway so I don't see the relevance of bringing up Santos. Plus the fight was in Santos backyard.
Well Press Row can see fighters reactions and see if they are hurt more although I agree ICE,I don't think anyone can give that fight to Margarito either. When I scored it 115-113,I was giving Tony the benefit of the doubt in some rounds. I can see 116-112 too.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swice
What would be the point of a rematch at this point, besides to satisfy the bruised ego of Margarito. Williams clearly won the fight and there wasn't any controversy besides the ones manufactured by Margarito fanboys. And I say fanboys because fans of Margarito know he lost but also know he put up a great show and will come back, fanboys are too obsessed with Margarito to see the difference.
Also judge the fight on its own merit. I hear people saying "if Margarito started faster" well if he did then we have a different fight don't we? If he started faster their is a chance he could of won, but a chance is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what other factors would have come in to play.
Williams went for volume of punches, Margarito went for power, in a fight where neither fighter went to the canvas landed more will probably win you the fight. Also neither fighter looked troubled at anytime in this fight.
Also shouldn't the true thorn in his flesh be Daniel Santos? Both times they fought a cut stopped the fight. One was ruled a No Contest and the second one was a Technical Decision for Daniel Santos. Seems to me that there is more history and controversy in their fights than with a clear cut win by Williams.
Stop talking nonsense. Nobody is causing a controversy. I'm merely saying a rematch should happen at some point because Tony deerves it. To say there should not be a rematch when:
Margarito went through dam litigation to give PW a fight when he didn't have to(although some idiots here were saying Tony was "ducking" PW)
It was a close fight.
There have been rematches were guys were KTFO.
If there is not going to be a rematch at this point,then I definitely don't mind but if there is,I don't see where all this BS about Margarito has to work his way back,what would the point be nonsense comes from.
It's got nothing to do with being a Margarito "fanboy",I was the one of the first to come hear and congratulate PW and say he won. And why should Santos be his thorn? Tony is a natural 147 pounder,went up and lost in a fight most thought he won. He doesn't want to go back to 154,not yet anyway so I don't see the relevance of bringing up Santos. Plus the fight was in Santos backyard.
Well Press Row can see fighters reactions and see if they are hurt more although I agree ICE,I don't think anyone can give that fight to Margarito either. When I scored it 115-113,I was giving Tony the benefit of the doubt in some rounds. I can see 116-112 too.
Nice post El Gamo :coolclick:
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swice
What would be the point of a rematch at this point, besides to satisfy the bruised ego of Margarito. Williams clearly won the fight and there wasn't any controversy besides the ones manufactured by Margarito fanboys. And I say fanboys because fans of Margarito know he lost but also know he put up a great show and will come back, fanboys are too obsessed with Margarito to see the difference.
Also judge the fight on its own merit. I hear people saying "if Margarito started faster" well if he did then we have a different fight don't we? If he started faster their is a chance he could of won, but a chance is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what other factors would have come in to play.
Williams went for volume of punches, Margarito went for power, in a fight where neither fighter went to the canvas landed more will probably win you the fight. Also neither fighter looked troubled at anytime in this fight.
Also shouldn't the true thorn in his flesh be Daniel Santos? Both times they fought a cut stopped the fight. One was ruled a No Contest and the second one was a Technical Decision for Daniel Santos. Seems to me that there is more history and controversy in their fights than with a clear cut win by Williams.
Stop talking nonsense. Nobody is causing a controversy. I'm merely saying a rematch should happen at some point because Tony deerves it. To say there should not be a rematch when:
Margarito went through dam litigation to give PW a fight when he didn't have to(although some idiots here were saying Tony was "ducking" PW)
It was a close fight.
There have been rematches were guys were KTFO.
If there is not going to be a rematch at this point,then I definitely don't mind but if there is,I don't see where all this BS about Margarito has to work his way back,what would the point be nonsense comes from.
It's got nothing to do with being a Margarito "fanboy",I was the one of the first to come hear and congratulate PW and say he won. And why should Santos be his thorn? Tony is a natural 147 pounder,went up and lost in a fight most thought he won. He doesn't want to go back to 154,not yet anyway so I don't see the relevance of bringing up Santos. Plus the fight was in Santos backyard.
Well Press Row can see fighters reactions and see if they are hurt more although I agree ICE,I don't think anyone can give that fight to Margarito either. When I scored it 115-113,I was giving Tony the benefit of the doubt in some rounds. I can see 116-112 too.
I never said you were a fanboy, never even mentioned your name and yet you assume I was talking to you. "Thou protest to much" if you ask me. Also I never said their shouldn't be a rematch, just that a rematch at this point is pointless for Paul Williams.
Also I mentioned that Daniel Santos should be more of a thorn in his side than Williams because their is more history between those two fighters plus the controversy that existed in their second fight. And if you want to bring weight into the equation Paul Williams isn't a "natural" 147 pound fighter either, he has been coming down in weight ever since he started his pro career and only really started his campaign at WW in 06.
Next time read THE post and don't try to read INTO the post. I didn't mention your name as a fanboy because I wasn't speaking about you which would have been quite obvious if you read the portion of my post that said fanboys are too obsessed to see the difference between a true loss and controversy when it comes to their fighter. Obviously from your previous posts claiming Paul Williams won the fight you don't fit into that category.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swice
What would be the point of a rematch at this point, besides to satisfy the bruised ego of Margarito. Williams clearly won the fight and there wasn't any controversy besides the ones manufactured by Margarito fanboys. And I say fanboys because fans of Margarito know he lost but also know he put up a great show and will come back, fanboys are too obsessed with Margarito to see the difference.
Also judge the fight on its own merit. I hear people saying "if Margarito started faster" well if he did then we have a different fight don't we? If he started faster their is a chance he could of won, but a chance is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what other factors would have come in to play.
Williams went for volume of punches, Margarito went for power, in a fight where neither fighter went to the canvas landed more will probably win you the fight. Also neither fighter looked troubled at anytime in this fight.
Also shouldn't the true thorn in his flesh be Daniel Santos? Both times they fought a cut stopped the fight. One was ruled a No Contest and the second one was a Technical Decision for Daniel Santos. Seems to me that there is more history and controversy in their fights than with a clear cut win by Williams.
Stop talking nonsense. Nobody is causing a controversy. I'm merely saying a rematch should happen at some point because Tony deerves it. To say there should not be a rematch when:
Margarito went through dam litigation to give PW a fight when he didn't have to(although some idiots here were saying Tony was "ducking" PW)
It was a close fight.
There have been rematches were guys were KTFO.
If there is not going to be a rematch at this point,then I definitely don't mind but if there is,I don't see where all this BS about Margarito has to work his way back,what would the point be nonsense comes from.
It's got nothing to do with being a Margarito "fanboy",I was the one of the first to come hear and congratulate PW and say he won. And why should Santos be his thorn? Tony is a natural 147 pounder,went up and lost in a fight most thought he won. He doesn't want to go back to 154,not yet anyway so I don't see the relevance of bringing up Santos. Plus the fight was in Santos backyard.
Well Press Row can see fighters reactions and see if they are hurt more although I agree ICE,I don't think anyone can give that fight to Margarito either. When I scored it 115-113,I was giving Tony the benefit of the doubt in some rounds. I can see 116-112 too.
Nice post El Gamo :coolclick:
I agree...good stuff.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Margarito lost that fight. Paul Williams is clearly the better fighter. Kermit Cintron is a lot better now.I think he can beat margarito if they fight again.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Wow there is some healthy discussion on this thread to say the least! :D
I agree with El Gamo that Margarito deserves a rematch seeing as he was the longest reigning welterweight champ and didn't have to take the fight.
Williams was his mandatory and a real tough opponent. Margarito was offered the chance to fight Cotto for more money and is many ways less risk as a loss to Cotto would hardly damage a career yet he went against his own promoter and gave Williams the chance anyway rather than relinquish his belt like Hatton, Mayweather and De La Hoya would be only to happy to do.
I'm not sure Tony beats Williams in a rematch I just don't think he's fast enough, especially early, but their last fight was one of my favourite fights of the year and Tony definitely has a punchers chance at least.
If guys like Zab Judah can lose a one megafight after another without their star appeal fading at all then surely Margarito deserves another shot.
Stylisitically I think Williams may be a bad choice but I'd love to see him in a rematch with Kermit Cintron and I think him and Cotto would be one hell of a good fight.
Andas mcuh as it annoys me how many opportunies he gets Margarito vs Zab Judah could be as entertaining as any potential fight in the welterweight division.
I hope Margarito continues to get big fights imo he's always in exciting fights and comes to win. Wish there were more like him.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Let me clarify from my previous posts that I'm not arguing that Tony does not deserve a rematch per se, just that at this point in time Paul Williams does not have much to gain by granting one. It is not a big money fight, and he won't get much more respect/notoriety by beating him a second time in what I believe would be a similar fight. That is not to say that down the road a rematch won't make more sense, especially if Tony won a different belt, setting up a unification match.
If I'm Williams, I sit out the rest of the year and see how some of these other fights play out, then decide on an opponent. If Cintron/Clottey is on (as another thread suggests), the winner of that would make a lot of sense. Or maybe he gets a mandatory out of the way early in the year and hope for a bigger fight in the spring/summer.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That "slapping bitch Williams" ::** ;D
Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.
Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.
Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.
"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here? ::**
Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.
He should possibly wait 4 years. ;D ::**
Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things. And it is a rich division but again,like I said,the PW camp don't want Kermit and they don't want Tony,everyone else is tied up and Margarito gave him a shot. Margarito doesn't need to build back up to anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
You owned the thread. :coolclick:, for a quality posting. :)
Spot on ;)
Calm down Miles,stop getting over excited. He made his points well as did I,neither of us got over excited and no-one owned anything.
Left Hook,Margarito does usually start slow but he sees its a problem,I'm sure he can address firstly and secondly,he doesn't start THAT slow.He actually stopped quite a few guys early like Kyvelos,6 heads,etc so he can get going quicker(I wish he had!) Also,I pointed out Margarito's defence because Williams,regardless of the purpose of his high output,was getting most of his punches blocked. This was part of Margarito's gameplan and that's why he didn't throw as many shots as he usually does. As for Williams punches,I just think that there were so many at the beginning that Margarito was taking time to adjust to them,in the rematch,he knows whats going to happen and so won't need that time. I also disagree,I think PW was at least a little hurt in the 11th but showed great heart to come back in the 12th. Finally,as for saying what does PW gain,well a good paycheck is one thing as Magarito is a good draw in that area. Second,and I know there is little of it around in boxing but he'll be doing an honourbale thing because Margarito went through the courts to fight him and so PW can at least return the favour. Thirdly,all the other top names are tied up so it's either fight Margarito(assuming Tony does not fight Cintron) or fight a no-name guy?
I certainly see your points and they are indeed valid but I think Margarito starting early,with more bodywork would have beaten PW and still can. It's also based on how you score fights. Sure PW was throwing more but if Margarito let his hands go more early on and even you acknowledged that he appeared to be heavier handed,then he can win. I mean the scorecards were close too soo another round here and there and Margarito can win the fight.
You have your opinion and I guess I have mine.I hope one day they meet again so we see who's right!
He owned you, come on now ;) ;D
Margarito fucked up, end of. Williams would most likely do the same again. I look forward to being right. Again.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
http://www.fightnews.com/leon39.htm
Ths fight really brngs a smile to Gamo's face. I thought Margarito was done but he is most certainly here to stay and sooner or later,he will rematch that slapping bitch Williams and if he lives up to his promise to start earlier,he will win. But first things first,bring on Cintron!
As we say down here Gamo,"You Da Man".I Think Margarito Is coming back loco vato style and is looking to do a "sebastian Lujan On Someone,tear ears off ,AIM for it over and over Convince His Opponent To Doubt His Self=K.U.Tha F. :cwm33:ANd Yes,Williams Is A Knock-Out Waiting To Happen1st,focus on cintron...TKO 10.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Wow. Really good posting going on in here, wanted to see some of that coming back. Nicely done by all thus far.
Anyways, just responding to a few points that have been made so far in regards to the first fight, the prospects of a rematch and Cintron.
Williams definitely won the first fight and he won it by a healthy margin. I felt that the bout could have easily been scored 117-111 and if it's not in Tony's backyard then maybe even more then that.
Williams was more active, constantly on his feet, moving his hands and changing angles in the rounds he won. In the rounds he gave up, it was because Williams was a bit tired and he got flatfooted with Margarito while still moving his hands. That didn't happen often, but it did a bit in the later rounds and Margarito was able to win those rounds just because he had something to hit. It was more of a Williams issue when he lost rounds then it was Margarito gaining something.
So really, I think the guy with more room to improve on their last outing is Paul. It would be pretty much a replica the second time around in my opinion, with Margarito only changing things up early. Maybe he would win the first or second rounds but it would fall into the same pattern and I think Williams would take it.
That is my opinion. The issue of whether or no Williams should rematch Margarito is completely seperate from what I think the match would go like. Antonio Margarito went out of his way to defend his name against Paul Williams, and turned down a potential HUGE money match with Cotto to take on Williams. Williams won, but the fight was very close and more importantly, very entertaining. On merit, the case can easily be made that Margarito deserves this because of what he gave up in order to give Williams his shot.
Before July, Williams wasn't in the picture with the top guys. Now he is and that's because of Margarito, the case can be made that Williams simply owes Margarito.
I don't feel that way. While Margarito did give Williams his shot, Margarito knew the stakes going in. I think it's completely fair for the Punisher camp to ask Margarito to build his name a bit, maybe grab that strap from Cintron in order to generate more interest for the rematch. If the bout takes place now and Williams wins another close and exciting decision, he has basically done nothing but tread water. It's fair for him to want a rematch to be a little more significant.
If Margarito can do something like taking on Judah and winning or having a go at Cintron's title and Williams is left out of the little four-square at the top, then a rematch would mean a lot more.
As for Williams not wanting Cintron, well I can completely understand that. Personally, I still see Kermit as the guy with great power but was brought up to fast and got KO'd by a top level guy. He's climbing back and has a title, but even with the title, he isn't a top guy imo. He still hasn't fought at Margarito's level yet so you can't say he's fully bounced back. I can see Paul having that view, as I imagine that's the view most have.
So for Margarito returning, Judah or Cintron is most definitely the way to go to get him back into the picture legitimately. Especially if he can beat both.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Antonio Margarito is nothing more than a gatekeeper, anymore. He is a welterweight version of Emanuel Augustus.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
As can be seen from other posts Miles,I clearly have made valid points. No-one owned anyone,end of. If you think that,you need to learn how to debate firstly and secondly,if you have no valid points to make and just come here to stir,I suggest you be quiet. You've made ZERO valid points except random comments like owned thread etc like some internet loser. Grow up man. My point was there should be a rematch and lefthook kind of agreed with me.So all this BS about being owned is exactly that,BS.
"I never said you were a fanboy, never even mentioned your name and yet you assume I was talking to you. "Thou protest to much" if you ask me. Also I never said their shouldn't be a rematch, just that a rematch at this point is pointless for Paul Williams.
Also I mentioned that Daniel Santos should be more of a thorn in his side than Williams because their is more history between those two fighters plus the controversy that existed in their second fight. And if you want to bring weight into the equation Paul Williams isn't a "natural" 147 pound fighter either, he has been coming down in weight ever since he started his pro career and only really started his campaign at WW in 06.
Next time read THE post and don't try to read INTO the post. I didn't mention your name as a fanboy because I wasn't speaking about you which would have been quite obvious if you read the portion of my post that said fanboys are too obsessed to see the difference between a true loss and controversy when it comes to their fighter. Obviously from your previous posts claiming Paul Williams won the fight you don't fit into that category."SWICE
Well,seeing as I'm the only one defending Margarito and have been the only one defending Margarito for some time,I don't see anyone else you could be alluding to with fanboy tag here firstly and secondly,if you were not referring to me,then make it clearer.I still disagree with the Santos thorn part. Like I said,the fight was in PR,Tony knows he won,the fans know he won and it was at 154.
As for everyone else,thankyou for your input,I'll respond when I wake up,I just went to snack,it's 5am here in the UK!! CC's all in the morning for making posts and justifying them,you make valid points ;)
The only thing I will admit to is that I have caused some confusion because I made a post regarding to issues: that there SHOULD be a rematch and that it would be different. I should seperate those issues,sorry for any confusion.
Amat,I totally and utterly disagree with your post. You say Margarito knew the stakes but I'm pretty danr certain I recall you being one of those that said Tony was "ducking" Paul,so what does Margarito do? Go through litigation to get the fight,earn the fans respect. The least Paul can do is rematch. And no offence but you said Lacey should get a rematch with JC at some point,I think Tony is FAR FAR more deserving than Jeff.(just giving you an example,don't mean to go off topic)
As for PW not fighting Kermit or Tony,let's not make PW out to be something he's not. He's not a star. He's not in a position to start picking and choosing who to fight. Kermit and Tony are easily top 6 WW's and any win over them is a good win. And with Kermit,it's the added bonus of a title. I think you're giving Williams a bit too much leeway. Everyone else is tied up,Tony gave him a chance which he did not have to and Kermit has a title. It would be silly of Paul not to take either fight.
To the fight itself,I again disagree,I think Margarito won the rounds were he increased his output and his punches were harder,it allowed him to win the round.The criteria is cleaner harder punching,not who can throw the most punches and it was rather clear,to em at least,that Tony was the bigger puncher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Let me clarify from my previous posts that I'm not arguing that Tony does not deserve a rematch per se, just that at this point in time Paul Williams does not have much to gain by granting one. It is not a big money fight, and he won't get much more respect/notoriety by beating him a second time in what I believe would be a similar fight. That is not to say that down the road a rematch won't make more sense, especially if Tony won a different belt, setting up a unification match.
If I'm Williams, I sit out the rest of the year and see how some of these other fights play out, then decide on an opponent. If Cintron/Clottey is on (as another thread suggests), the winner of that would make a lot of sense. Or maybe he gets a mandatory out of the way early in the year and hope for a bigger fight in the spring/summer.
Fair enough man,I see where you are coming from,a rematch may not be in order just yet,my point is,that some are vehemently against one whereas IF it did occur now,I think it would be a good fight for PW.(or maybe I just want Tony to get revenge)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Wow there is some healthy discussion on this thread to say the least! :D
I agree with El Gamo that Margarito deserves a rematch seeing as he was the longest reigning welterweight champ and didn't have to take the fight.
Williams was his mandatory and a real tough opponent. Margarito was offered the chance to fight Cotto for more money and is many ways less risk as a loss to Cotto would hardly damage a career yet he went against his own promoter and gave Williams the chance anyway rather than relinquish his belt like Hatton, Mayweather and De La Hoya would be only to happy to do.
I'm not sure Tony beats Williams in a rematch I just don't think he's fast enough, especially early, but their last fight was one of my favourite fights of the year and Tony definitely has a punchers chance at least.
If guys like Zab Judah can lose a one megafight after another without their star appeal fading at all then surely Margarito deserves another shot.
Stylisitically I think Williams may be a bad choice but I'd love to see him in a rematch with Kermit Cintron and I think him and Cotto would be one hell of a good fight.
Andas mcuh as it annoys me how many opportunies he gets Margarito vs Zab Judah could be as entertaining as any potential fight in the welterweight division.
I hope Margarito continues to get big fights imo he's always in exciting fights and comes to win. Wish there were more like him.
CC Bilbo and those parts in the bold are pefectly stated. Zab gets shot after shot and no one says a thing. Tony went against his own promoter to get PW his shot. And again,those other guys just let their belts go but Tony was and is a real champ.
CC' back Ice and Mar,thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
http://www.fightnews.com/leon39.htm
Ths fight really brngs a smile to Gamo's face. I thought Margarito was done but he is most certainly here to stay and sooner or later,he will rematch that slapping bitch Williams and if he lives up to his promise to start earlier,he will win. But first things first,bring on Cintron!
As we say down here Gamo,"You Da Man".I Think Margarito Is coming back loco vato style and is looking to do a "sebastian Lujan On Someone,tear ears off ,AIM for it over and over Convince His Opponent To Doubt His Self=K.U.Tha F. :cwm33:ANd Yes,Williams Is A Knock-Out Waiting To Happen1st,focus on cintron...TKO 10.
lol,thanks bro,CC.You're dam right,I have a feeling someone is going to get destroyed in Tony's next fight!!!
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Antonio Margarito is nothing more than a gatekeeper, anymore. He is a welterweight version of Emanuel Augustus.
:hippy: Your Funny ......And Wrong!
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Amat,I totally and utterly disagree with your post. You say Margarito knew the stakes but I'm pretty danr certain I recall you being one of those that said Tony was "ducking" Paul,so what does Margarito do? Go through litigation to get the fight,earn the fans respect. The least Paul can do is rematch. And no offence but you said Lacey should get a rematch with JC at some point,I think Tony is FAR FAR more deserving than Jeff.(just giving you an example,don't mean to go off topic)
I never thought that Margarito was outright ducking Paul, but he was being hypocritical. Paul was doing the same stuff Margarito was doing to Williams and Margarito was blowing him off like Mayweather had done to him. He even gave a "Who is Paul Williams?" line.
Like I said in the post, when he signed to fight Williams, he earned huge respect. That was one of my favorite moments of the year when I heard that Margarito was fighting for this.
When I say he knew the stakes, I'm saying he knew that Williams was a good fighter who could beat him.
And I don't by any means think that Lacy deserves a rematch at Calzaghe. I said I think he could do better, but he has done nothing to deserve one and I've made a clear distinction about that. I said the same thing in this topic, how a rematch will fare and how much a rematch is deserved are two completely seperate things.
It's just the script has been flipped on this one. I think Margarito deserves a rematch more then Lacy (obviously), but Lacy would be the one to better on his last performance. I'm not in any way trying to disrespect Margarito. It's just the thing where, Paul won. He's the champion now and he decides who gets a rematch or not. There is a case for Margarito but I would rather see it built up, an immediate rematch would be senseless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
As for PW not fighting Kermit or Tony,let's not make PW out to be something he's not. He's not a star. He's not in a position to start picking and choosing who to fight. Kermit and Tony are easily top 6 WW's and any win over them is a good win. And with Kermit,it's the added bonus of a title. I think you're giving Williams a bit too much leeway. Everyone else is tied up,Tony gave him a chance which he did not have to and Kermit has a title. It would be silly of Paul not to take either fight.
I agree but personally, I wouldn't mind it if he took on someone other then Margarito and Cintron, played it low and maybe took on the winner if the opportunity presented itself. Clottey would not be out of the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
To the fight itself,I again disagree,I think Margarito won the rounds were he increased his output and his punches were harder,it allowed him to win the round.The criteria is cleaner harder punching,not who can throw the most punches and it was rather clear,to em at least,that Tony was the bigger puncher.
Again though, the Margarito punch increase coincided with Paul getting flatfooted which is why I thought Paul was always in total control of the fight. And the only time the bigger punches were a factor were in the very later rounds. Very few and far between, Williams pretty much busted Margarito up and was putting a whooping on him for a while. And he was accurate, which made up for a lot of that power. Williams was not only the superior mover but the superior puncher aswell.
The only time I think the harder punching will factor in is in that puncher's chance you talked about. Margarito has knockout power, but I think the higher guard and faster feet of Williams neutralize that pretty well. Watching the first fight, there is no reason I would worry for Williams when it comes to a knockout. He handled himself well and he would only get better conditions the second time.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
I agreed with that post more Amat but I do not see how,in any way shape or form,that PW was busting Margarito up??? He may have thrown over 1,000 more punches or whatever,but who had the biggest round? Margarito round 11.Even when P won the first 4 or 5,Margarito was blocking most of those shots. No way dude. Like I said,his punches were at most stinging,not hard and hurtful and he was just laying them out there,racking up the numbers. In no way did I see Margarito getting busted up and I didn't see anyone else mention it either. PW won mainly on the numbers game.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
I still think it heaps funny...not the fact he got beat by williams but the fact that before that fight margarito could supposedly beat pbf lol never would happen...EVER ;)
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I agreed with that post more Amat but I do not see how,in any way shape or form,that PW was busting Margarito up??? He may have thrown over 1,000 more punches or whatever,but who had the biggest round? Margarito round 11.Even when P won the first 4 or 5,Margarito was blocking most of those shots. No way dude. Like I said,his punches were at most stinging,not hard and hurtful and he was just laying them out there,racking up the numbers. In no way did I see Margarito getting busted up and I didn't see anyone else mention it either. PW won mainly on the numbers game.
Well Gamo, at least you have Cotto to root for ;) ;D
Anyway, from a gutted fans standpoint I can see your points Gamo, but from a logical business sense it dosent make any sense at the moment.. Margarito had little marketibility before this fight unless you were a hardcore boxing fan.. Now he has 0 after this loss and losing all the hyped boogey man persona that was fed and portrayed to the fans. Now if he beats Cintron than I can see him back in the mix, since Citron is red hot and the flavor of the day along with Mayweather, Mosely, Cotto... Just sit back and relax, if Margo handles his business then he will get another shot ;)
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
williams won the fight no doubt. that doesn't mean margarito doesn't deserve a rematch. if he gets a few good wins then i don't see why not.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Paul Williams clearly won the fight and I gave him only 3 rounds he didn't win, maybe. Bitch slapping or not, you get hit with 2000 of them and I would imagine even a bitch slap starts to hurt, maybe mentally as much as physically. I would see a rematch going a little different, as Tony knows he couldn't start slow, or it would be the 1st fight all over again. He would come out alot faster and try to maul Williams. Whether or not it would work and if he could keep that pace all fight is up in the air.
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Re: Margarito resurfaces!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.
As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.
I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.
If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.
On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.
Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.
Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.
Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).
EL GAMO & Left Hook to the body: both of you make good points. I honestly saw Williams winning 7-5 maybe 8-4. I saw Williams winning early due to his active throwing throughout rounds. I think that Margarito Would win the 2nd fight. I think he'd come alot more prepared and more active for 12 rounds vice 5. He is a fighter that doesn't receive much recognition for what he has done and accomplished, but this fight will probably not happen because I agree with what Left Hook said "money issue." The only way I think this would happen is if they make it a PPV, but we all know and they all know it will be disapointment in sells.
GAMO: I'm going to give you my opinion on what Margarito should do. It may sound crazy but this is his best shot to finally prove his point to everyone that he is alot better than what they think. He shouldn't fight Cintron. I think Cintron is deadly if he lands his straight punches and I believe Emanuel Steward is making a hell of a fighter out of him. He doesn't need a rematch with Williams, not now at least. He needs to fight Oscar De La Hoya, or Mayweather. I think he has a good shot in those fights. I honestly think PBF has been avoiding him for quite sometime. We all know PBF will not throw 100 punches per round as did Williams and will allow Margarito to fight the same way Oscar did and be a really close fight. Margarito is way underrated and I think he could beat Williams anytime, the fact is Williams surprised him that night with hisstamina for 12 rounds and style of consistency for many rounds. Margarito was thinking of a KO vice being active early and trying to get some rounds.
Who ever said, Margarito needs to wait in line: no, Margarito does not need to wait in line. He was a champion who lost a decisive fight. Chavez Lost to Randell decisively and had a mandatory rematch. I don't think Williams will give him the rematch.
