I think that people are jumping the gun on predicting Pavlik over Taylor...

I have seen some interesting articles and topics on some forums the last few months about Pavlik beating Taylor....You would think that Kelly is a world dominator and Taylor is a guy who is on the slide just looking to be dominated by a new up and comer.....

Has Taylor looked crappy his last few outings against a couple of 154 pounders???....Well the Ouma fight was just out right pitiful...Though Taylor won Ouma is not in the top tier as far as performances anymore...It was a fight though Jermain controlled and there was no doubt on the winner...

The Spinks fight is one that to be honest there is no shame in...Corey can not break wind with a power shot but he can make anyone look bad when he is on point and he can frustrate anyone in the world...IMO Taylors performance in that fight was more due to him not wanting to look bad and Coreys style more then anything....

Taylor may not be exciting and his 2 wins over Hopkins were not exactly show stoppers but talent is what he has and his jaw is not questionable....He is a much rounded fighter then Pavlik and has been to the big dance many more times.....

Taylor has wins over Hopkins twice, a draw with Wright, a win over Spinks, Ouma, Joppy, Edouard, and Marquez...plus his KO % is nothing to laugh at 17 out of 27,,,,,,,,Add that to all his amateur experience and you have a well rounded guy worthy of his ranking as the best MW in the world currently

Pavlik has McKart,,Pierre and Miranda on his resume and his Amateur resume is no way near as impressive and Taylors.....

I am not saying that Kelly can't beat Taylor...Or am I saying Taylor is going to beat Pavlik....

I am just saying I think people are jumping the gun on this one.....This is more of a case where people want a new champion due to Taylors boring style and just hoping Pavlik beats him rather then people actually using their heads and sizing things up......

Like I said I am not picking either way or do I really care who wins this one so my thoughts are unbiased...

I am just wondering if I am alone on this opinion?

Anyone else agree or am I on my own here?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I have seen some interesting articles and topics on some forums the last few months about Pavlik beating Taylor....You would think that Kelly is a world dominator and Taylor is a guy who is on the slide just looking to be dominated by a new up and comer.....

Has Taylor looked crappy his last few outings against a couple of 154 pounders???....Well the Ouma fight was just out right pitiful...Though Taylor won Ouma is not in the top tier as far as performances anymore...It was a fight though Jermain controlled and there was no doubt on the winner...

The Spinks fight is one that to be honest there is no shame in...Corey can not break wind with a power shot but he can make anyone look bad when he is on point and he can frustrate anyone in the world...IMO Taylors performance in that fight was more due to him not wanting to look bad and Coreys style more then anything....

Taylor may not be exciting and his 2 wins over Hopkins were not exactly show stoppers but talent is what he has and his jaw is not questionable....He is a much rounded fighter then Pavlik and has been to the big dance many more times.....

Taylor has wins over Hopkins twice, a draw with Wright, a win over Spinks, Ouma, Joppy, Edouard, and Marquez...plus his KO % is nothing to laugh at 17 out of 27,,,,,,,,Add that to all his amateur experience and you have a well rounded guy worthy of his ranking as the best MW in the world currently

Pavlik has McKart,,Pierre and Miranda on his resume and his Amateur resume is no way near as impressive and Taylors.....

I am not saying that Kelly can't beat Taylor...Or am I saying Taylor is going to beat Pavlik....

I am just saying I think people are jumping the gun on this one.....This is more of a case where people want a new champion due to Taylors boring style and just hoping Pavlik beats him rather then people actually using their heads and sizing things up......

Like I said I am not picking either way or do I really care who wins this one so my thoughts are unbiased...

I am just wondering if I am alone on this opinion?

Anyone else agree or am I on my own here?

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I disagree about Taylor's jaw he has never really been hit flush in his career by hard hitter its nothing to do with people jumping the gun its due to Taylor looking worse in every fight neglacting one of his best weapons the jab and also not willing to work and he seems to have stamina issues in later stages of fights aswell from what i see in both Hopkins fights.


Pavlik is very good pressure fighter with bombs in both fists Taylor has never really been pressured in his career so we will see how he deals with someone like Pavlik.

I think Taylor is ready to be taken and i think Pavlik the mans to do it Pavlik has been very impressive i have to make him the favorite due to his good chin great power height size and also the workrate.

I'm picking Taylor by a non controversial UD.

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Hopkins is kind of fighter that wears you down with accumulation of punches like he did with Tito the only time he got to Taylor was in last 4 rounds of the 1st fight he caught him with a few decent shots but he hardly hit him in first 8 rounds averaging at round about 8 punches landed a round wasn't it ?? thats not proof enough that Taylor has good chin.

Winky pressured him but not like Pavlik will and he doesn't have nowhere near the power of Pavlik remember Winky just like Hopkins wears you down with accumulation of punches and even Winky don't hit as hard as Hopkins.

And i think its unfair to call Miranda a poor mans Jeff Lacy.

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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I also remember hearing everyone on here calling the Spinks fight a joke fight and that Taylor will win easy Spinks had never fought at Middleweight and Taylor should of worked alot harder and not keep relying on the judges.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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I also remember hearing everyone on here calling the Spinks fight a joke fight and that Taylor will win easy Spinks had never fought at Middleweight and Taylor should of worked alot harder and not keep relying on the judges.

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Hes not a slouch but hes not a true middleweight either. Taylor is naturally bigger and naturally much stronger but he didnt fight like it. Taylors problem is he only fights as good as the guy hes fighting and doesnt take any extra steps to make a dominant performance. Hes a champion that does just enough to defend his title, but he doesnt defend it with everything he can.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Hopkins is kind of fighter that wears you down with accumulation of punches like he did with Tito the only time he got to Taylor was in last 4 rounds of the 1st fight he caught him with a few decent shots but he hardly hit him in first 8 rounds averaging at round about 8 punches landed a round wasn't it ?? thats not proof enough that Taylor has good chin.

Winky pressured him but not like Pavlik will and he doesn't have nowhere near the power of Pavlik remember Winky just like Hopkins wears you down with accumulation of punches and even Winky don't hit as hard as Hopkins.

And i think its unfair to call Miranda a poor mans Jeff Lacy.

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To address each thing.

Hopkins is a pretty hard hitter. Pavlik is also wear down puncher. He hasn't shown me real one punch ko against top competition, and I don't think its because Miranda has a great chin.

Second, Winky obviously doesn't hit as hard as Pavlik, but he kept comming forward he is much hard to hit than Pavlik, he keeps a high punch rate, and he is southpaw which made it hard for Taylor to use his jab.

thirdly, Lacy is faster, bigger, stronger than Miranda and he has better technique.

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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Also Spinks fought a fight that I think would have given Hopkins a shit load of trouble, and I think if he fought like that against Pavlik Spinks would befuddled the slow Pavlik.

I am probably one of those jumping the gun in predicting Pavlik. But in boxing you get judged more so on your last performance. Pavlik looked better than Talyor, their repective opponents had more to do with that though. Had Taylor fought Miranda; Taylor would have finished things the same way IMO.

Taylor showed in his fights with Hopkins & Wright that he can be competitive with the top guys. On paper Taylor is the better fighter. But Pavlik will enter the ring with a well thought out plan & will stick to it. He'll have Taylor backing up all night. Taylor is faster but timing can offset speed. Pavliks power will be the difference IMO. Taylor's got a good chin but Pavliks power will make him think twice.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy.

I am probably one of those jumping the gun in predicting Pavlik. But in boxing you get judged more so on your last performance. Pavlik looked better than Talyor, their repective opponents had more to do with that though. Had Taylor fought Miranda; Taylor would have finished things the same way IMO.

Taylor showed in his fights with Hopkins & Wright that he can be competitive with the top guys. On paper Taylor is the better fighter. But Pavlik will enter the ring with a well thought out plan & will stick to it. He'll have Taylor backing up all night. Taylor is faster but timing can offset speed. Pavliks power will be the difference IMO. Taylor's got a good chin but Pavliks power will make him think twice.

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I duno he is better technically than Kelley but Kelley was willing to get involved with Miranda . Taylor wouldnt even get involved with Spinks so I think Miranda would have intimidated him

I agree with Icecold. Pavliks power is abit underrated and it may not look like much but he has clubbing powerful blows and his record speaks for itself . Taylor has never met anything like it and if he was cautious vs the light middles he is guna be extra cautious vs Pavlik

Although I think it would be a close fight,I too think Pavlik's power is being under rated by some here. To compare it to B Hops is silly to say the least,in any way shape or form is silly, I don't even remember the last time B Hop stopped someone! Each of Pavliks' punches hurts,he is very heavy handed as witnessed by Bronco Mckart's statements after their fight,in which Mckart said every punch is powerful. Heck Pavlik put the tough sob Zertuche in hospital and I'm pretty sure before the fight,Zertuche was hardly ever hurt before,pro or amateurs.

I agree that JT has faced the better fighters but neither Winky,nor B Hop nor anyone else he has faced are as big,strong and forceful as Kelly. Whether anyone liked Edison or not,he hits harder than JT and Pavlik walked right through his shots. And against B Hop and at times Winky(the last round in particular) JT had rounds off where the opponent was not active and still he appeared to fade down the stretch,a point not many have mentioned. On the other hand,Pavlik has probably the best stamina at the weight class,he just does not stop throwing punches.And we all know JT's chin will never have been checked like it will in this fight. He may very well make use of the jab and lateral movement but I don't think he is that good with that tactic to avoid Kelly alllll night long,he will get caught somwhere along.

Again,I'm not saying either guy willl blow the other away but merely making observations. I think it's a 55-45 fight for Kelly but JT can win. He certainly appears motivated in his training.

All the analysis has been good..........

..............but I'm still riding the Pavlik bandwagon.

;D ;D ;D

I like Pavlik but he hasnt beaten anyone of note. He beat an overratted Edison Miranda. Thats it. If it wasnt Pavlik to expose Miranda weaknesses it would have been someone else. It would have happened earlier but guys like Gibbs and Green were intimidated by him. There is nothing more too it. I think people are overrating him the same way they overratted Miranda. Dont get me wrong I like both guys but like like him or not Taylor is a better, sounder, more experienced fighter. I want Pavlik to win but I dont see it happening at all.

To address each thing.

Hopkins is a pretty hard hitter. Pavlik is also wear down puncher. He hasn't shown me real one punch ko against top competition, and I don't think its because Miranda has a great chin.

Second, Winky obviously doesn't hit as hard as Pavlik, but he kept comming forward he is much hard to hit than Pavlik, he keeps a high punch rate, and he is southpaw which made it hard for Taylor to use his jab.

thirdly, Lacy is faster, bigger, stronger than Miranda and he has better technique.
[/quote]

What about Pavliks one punch to have Zertuche out on his feet.
I will admit, I am a big Pavlik fan and have been for years, since he is from the same area as I am. But it is about time he is finally getting some kinda recognition. I believe this will be a good close fight till round #8, when Kelly KOs Taylor. But I don't think people should be so critical of Taylor's last 4 fights. Hopkins, one of the all time greats and all time P4P, Winky has one of the best defenses of all time and also on the P4P list, Ouma and Spinks are just difficult to hit all together. Yes they were boring fights, but not alot of fighters could have made it much better.

Taylor's last 3 opponents were all left handers. So Taylor had a hard time making his jab a factor. That won't be a problem against Pavlik. Taylor's jab will be in his face all night. Taylor by stoppage around the 7th or 8th round

Typical daxx post:

Is it just me or does the sun rise every morning?

Anyone else agree or am I all alone on this one?

Dax, as you can see, it is close but the majority favor taylor. Everything I've seen people predict the majority favor taylor. No, you are not the "only one" who favors taylor.

Just like everyone thought that Matt Hamill was robbed in the recent UFC. No, you werent standing alone and making a bold statement with that one either.


Is it just me guys, or is Saddo's some kind of website on the internet? Am I going out on a limb with this one?? It's a pretty extreme statement, I know! That's why I'm asking if I am the "only one" who thinks that! Because Im sure hardly anyone will agree that this is a website on the internet. That would be crazy!

Pavlik is coming off the best performance of his career. Taylor is coming off a horrible performance against a fighter who's almost impossible to look good against. So naturally, I think people are overrating Pavlik a bit and underrating Taylor.

I like Taylor by decision. I think he has the hand speed edge and the big fight experience.

I like Taylor in this one for the sole reason that he'll have a fighter fight right in front of him for the first time in years. Taylor by mid round ko in brutal fight.

I think people are fooled by Pavilik win over an overrated Miranda. Taylor will go back to his old self in this one and i think not only will he win, i think he will dominate Pavilik

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I have seen some interesting articles and topics on some forums the last few months about Pavlik beating Taylor....You would think that Kelly is a world dominator and Taylor is a guy who is on the slide just looking to be dominated by a new up and comer.....

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Basically everyone wants to see Taylor defeated...even some of his fans are crying over his performances...lord knows I have been. I used to be a huge fan of Taylor's...I was thrilled that he was going to pick up the mantle.

Had he have taken it...really taken it from Hopkins instead of having it handed to him...I could deal with his shitty outtings of late...but I am ready to see Taylor gone.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Has Taylor looked crappy his last few outings against a couple of 154 pounders???....Well the Ouma fight was just out right pitiful...Though Taylor won Ouma is not in the top tier as far as performances anymore...It was a fight though Jermain controlled and there was no doubt on the winner...

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I can not believe that people can actually stomach talking about this fight...so I won't.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The Spinks fight is one that to be honest there is no shame in...Corey can not break wind with a power shot but he can make anyone look bad when he is on point and he can frustrate anyone in the world...IMO Taylors performance in that fight was more due to him not wanting to look bad and Coreys style more then anything....

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Again, I can not believe that people can actually stomach talking about this fight either...so I won't...cept to say that Taylor should have pretty much hammered this fool out like he should have Ouma.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Taylor may not be exciting and his 2 wins over Hopkins were not exactly show stoppers but talent is what he has and his jaw is not questionable....He is a much rounded fighter then Pavlik and has been to the big dance many more times.....

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Taylor got cracked in the 9th & 10th by Hopkins so hard that he almost went down...after that he shelled up & VERY ARGUEABLEY almost gave the match away. He never took it to Hopkins like he should have & honestly I will always believe that Hopkins outlanded him & won the match in the last half of the bout.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Taylor has wins over Hopkins twice, a draw with Wright, a win over Spinks, Ouma, Joppy, Edouard, and Marquez...plus his KO % is nothing to laugh at 17 out of 27,,,,,,,,Add that to all his amateur experience and you have a well rounded guy worthy of his ranking as the best MW in the world currently

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Wright beat Taylor & we should all be having a different discussion.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Pavlik has McKart,,Pierre and Miranda on his resume and his Amateur resume is no way near as impressive and Taylors.....

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Huge difference in the here & now.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I am not saying that Kelly can't beat Taylor...Or am I saying Taylor is going to beat Pavlik....

I am just saying I think people are jumping the gun on this one.....This is more of a case where people want a new champion due to Taylors boring style and just hoping Pavlik beats him rather then people actually using their heads and sizing things up......

Like I said I am not picking either way or do I really care who wins this one so my thoughts are unbiased...

I am just wondering if I am alone on this opinion?

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All that being said...I'm not picking Pavlik as a shoe in as the next mid champ. Pavlik has a lot of holes & chinks in his armor that Taylor if he applies himself could take advantage of...the thing is...he didn't reach for his best against Hopkins, Wright, Spinks, or Ouma...so why is now going to be any different?

Truthfully...I hope that Pavlik stops him...but I aint bankin on it.

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Originally Posted by mayorook

I think people are fooled by Pavilik win over an overrated Miranda. Taylor will go back to his old self in this one and i think not only will he win, i think he will dominate Pavilik

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Taylor's old ways were about 3 or 4 years ago & I aint talkin about against that shoe of a sparring partner Eduord or Joppy. The Taylor that blasted Bunema is what needs to show.

I really believe that Taylor of old is gone. Taylor's begun to believe his HBO's hype.

Now way in hell he dominates Pavlik...Pavlik's got too much heart & power...the jab is what Taylor will need to revive to handily beat Pavlik.

I think it just comes down to the fact that people often overrate the knockout artist or the more "exciting" fighter. People usually make picks using the data that is fresh in their mind, and fans have Pavlik destroying a fellow good prospect in Miranda in an exciting brawl and Jermain winning a boring decision over a much smaller Cory Spinks fresh in their minds, so their going with Pavlik.

Jermain is on a higher level than the guys Pavlik has fought. He's handled tougher opposition than Pavlik. And IMO he is the must more skilled boxer of the two. I say Jermain wins a clear cut UD.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I think it just comes down to the fact that people often overrate the knockout artist or the more "exciting" fighter. People usually make picks using the data that is fresh in their mind, and fans have Pavlik destroying a fellow good prospect in Miranda in an exciting brawl and Jermain winning a boring decision over a much smaller Cory Spinks fresh in their minds, so their going with Pavlik.

Jermain is on a higher level than the guys Pavlik has fought. He's handled tougher opposition than Pavlik. And IMO he is the must more skilled boxer of the two. I say Jermain wins a clear cut UD.

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Whilst I agree that there will be a bit of over rating and under rating,it's only natural going by the fighters last performances,everyone who says JT is more skilled is missing the main points:

Skill alone does not win fights.

Kelly is bigger and stronger than anyone JT has fought.

JT gasses and Kelly's stamina is astounding.

Kelly showed his heart taking bombs from Pantera and has tremendous power in both hands.

When was the last time JT used the jab effectively??

This fight could go either way but the points made for JT to win thus far have not been persuasive at all in my opinion. So what if JT beat Hopkins and drew with Wright? I don't see that having any relevance with this fight because Kelly is the polar opposite of those 2.

I'm tilting more towards Kelly at the moment,but like I said,it's a close fight. I just see more factors in favour of Pavlik like his activity levels,his power,his chin and his stamina.

You cant blame people for going with Pavlik, he's just smacked the piss out of Miranda and Taylor has looked less than impressive in his recent outings, its more than that actually, he hasnt looked interested to be honest.

Im not sold on Pavlik, great win and all but I wasn't convinced by Miranda either.

50/50 fight for me. If Taylor doesnt show up he's in a world of trouble though.

I totally agree with daxx on this one, pavlik beat miranda and went from contender to this huge wrecking ball of a fighter, i like pavlik but i don't think he's as good as all the hype neither was miranda.

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Originally Posted by Mar

I totally agree with daxx on this one, pavlik beat miranda and went from contender to this huge wrecking ball of a fighter, i like pavlik but i don't think he's as good as all the hype neither was miranda.

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Pavlik was always a huge wrecking ball of a fighter even before Miranda fight i thought he was always good.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Mar

I totally agree with daxx on this one, pavlik beat miranda and went from contender to this huge wrecking ball of a fighter, i like pavlik but i don't think he's as good as all the hype neither was miranda.

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Pavlik was always a huge wrecking ball of a fighter even before Miranda fight i thought he was always good.

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You may be right but there is a night and day difference of what people think about him pre and post miranda. Was miranda that good ?? Was that win that impressive that "bam" he can go from miranda to taylor, i ask you cause you seem to be one of the few that actually really followed him before that fight, i admittingly did not at least not as close as i should have i guess. Or is it taylors lack of performance recently for whatever reason that makes pavlik such a threat, i don't wanna start a huge argument, i really would like and opinion from someone more knowledgeable about this guy since i've only seem him fight like twice i belive....outside of youtube clips and stuff like that.

IMO Taylor is what i like to call a "Mirror Fighter/Boxer" - He only fights equal to his opposition..Thats why all of his fights appear lack luster. Hopkins, Ouma, Winky, Spinks are all not known for an all out amazing offensive assault, so in result you saw a "Do just enough" version of Taylor...However, with Pavlik being an aggressive offensive fighter, everyone will see the best version of Taylor as of yet...

My words have been marked...I will be back with egg on my face, or a finger in yours...

Taylor with an all out war - UD or late stoppage - and a battered Kelly Pavlik (who i do like)

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Hopkins punch will feel like a bee sting to Pavliks power, Pavlik will not this chump out because he is lazy and overrated

Truth is, both fighters have people who under or overestimate them. There are guys who see Taylor as he was before he fought for the title, the guy who dominated all before him with a combination of good jab, speed, power and skill; while there are others who can't see past his last few awful performances. Some guys see Pavlik as an untested contender who beat another untested contender, while others see him as an unstoppable beast.

Personally, I think both guys have limitations. In Taylor's last few fights, he seems to just be lost on what he's supposed to do in the ring, even his trainer is pissed off with him; and even the pre-champion version of him never dominated anyone of world class.
Pavlik has great power and a great chin (Miranda was limited, but one thing that crazy mofo could do was punch, and he did land flush on Pavlik without wobbling him.); though Kelly's skills when it comes speed and footwork is very limited.

IMO Pavlik is there to be outboxed by some of the craftier older guys like B-hop Winky and JC, the question is wether Taylor can do it. I'm with Wacko, I think he's bought into his own hype and hasn't been at the top of his game for a long time. Even if he is at the top of his game, I still don't think he has enough skill and/or stamina to keep Pavlik off him all night.
I see Taylor looking quite good in the early rounds before Pavlik begins to get to him. I'm leaning towards a close decision for Pavlik.

The thing about Pavlik is that he has always been in the top 5 contenders...no one other than Ring & HBO recognized it.

I dont think JT would have any problem with super middle at all if it came to a rematch.. Actually they're both large middles.
However, i dont think a rematch will be necessary as if taylor does not dominate he will be KO'd. Either way i doubt there will be any controversy as to the winner.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I dont think JT would have any problem with super middle at all if it came to a rematch.. Actually they're both large middles.

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I'm not so sure that I buy into Taylor at 160lbs anymore...much less 168lbs.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

However, i dont think a rematch will be necessary as if taylor does not dominate he will be KO'd.

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So your'e leaning towards a Pavlik knockout?

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Either way i doubt there will be any controversy as to the winner.

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Here's where I disagree. I think Taylor's had waaaaaaay to many gimmee's of late & I honestly believe that if he doesn't come out guns blazing against Pavlik & then pick up the pace down the stretch...well...he'll still get the decicion.

I have always thought that Taylor's been combed like a pedigree pooch by HBO & I seriously doubt that they'll drop that charge now...even though they've warmed to Pavlik in the last 2 years.

Oh im agreeing there. I like taylor but i totally agree that he has had some special treatment as of late. Although i dont care if he got a 20 count i didn wanna see spinks champ ;D

However, u misunderstand my point. I was stating that if Taylor does not take an early grasp of this fight, dominate Pavlik, keep him n check n bluntly beat on him he will be abused by Kelly and stopped. Jermaine has to be more active than previous fights, apply a steady stream of punishment and outbox Pavlik.

Should he show the complacency that he had in recent fights, such as not throwing against Spinks, not Kassim OumA OR generally not following his trainers strategy, Pavlik will knock him out.