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Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
I was reading an old topic and some of the garbage that was being said was unbelievable.
Larry holmes was a bum, most footage you see of him his getting whipped and going down like a bag of spuds,greatest of all time? stop smoking crack and start getting interested in boxing, larry holmes was a good fighter but he got beat too many times too be mentioned on the same page with some of them fighters.
I mean what the hell is this ?? this guy hasn't got a clue what he is on about Holmes fought 75 times and only lost 6 times and was only stopped once when he was 2 years ring rusty and was 38 years old and just happened to be facing prime Mike Tyson who was in his absolute peak at that time Holmes defended his title 20 times yes ok he might not of had best era but did Louis have that much of better era either ?? and he isn't slated like Holmes is Holmes beat everyone that was put infront of him and didn't duck anyone and yes ok maybe he was a bit of a whiner and you guys don't like his attitude but he was still an exceptional fighter i mean Tyson wasn't nice outside or inside the ring but in his prime everyone agrees he was awesome so why can't we say the same about Holmes.
And its not just reading that old topic either i have been noticing quite a bit of hate towards Holmes i think people are focusing too much on Holmes outside the ring and not focusing enough about Holmes inside the ring just watch Shavers vs Holmes 1 and tell me that wasn't a masterpiece ?? or watch Norton vs Holmes where before the fight Holmes had injury to his arm and wasn't 100 percent but still beat Norton more convincing than what Ali ever done forgetting the bs judges scorecards Holmes was ahead by atleast 2 or 3 rounds and Holmes showed amazing heart to come out for that 15th round and give everything he had and people say Holmes shouldn't of fought Ali ect ect but Ali was the only calling him out and calling him peanut head and going to his fights like one with Scott Ledoux and calling him out Holmes so he fought Ali if he hadn't of people would of been saying oh Holmes is ducking him ect ect and he beat him in bad way but not alot of people know that Holmes pleaded with the ref to stop the fight and was even pulling back his punches to try and not hurt Ali but yet people after the fight hated Holmes so much for that fight why ??
Now onto these knockdowns which keeps being brought up Holmes was knocked down by one of the hardest punches ever landed in hw history and by one of the p4p hardest hitters in history Earnie Shavers and still got up at 4 and stopped Shavers now the Snipes fight i have watched this many times and Holmes was caught with a good punch but it was because he was taking Snipes lightly and later in that round he started to pound Snipes and comeback pretty quickly and people hate on this because he was knocked down by Snipes because he wasn't big name but wasn't Ali almost koed by Henry Cooper who was only good at domestic level who would be considered Lightheavyweight by todays standards every great fighter gets caught i think people hate too much on Holmes about the knockdown to Snipes.
Only last thing is these Spinks fights i noticed people keep saying oh well Holmes lost to Lightheavyweight Spinks the man who Tyson koed in 1 ect ect well if they would actually watch the fights they would know they were gift decisions with second one being one of the worst robberys of all time the first fight was closer but Spinks didn't do enough to take the champions title and in rematch Holmes fought differently constantly being the aggressor winning round after round almost knocking Spinks down in the 14th and yet was robbed it was disgraceful i want people to actually watch 2nd Holmes vs Spinks fight and tell me that Spinks honestly won it ??
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
He is underrated.
Good post ICE
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division and the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant ass and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division andthe sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant a** and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated,
I remember Holmes giving Ali credit and speaking highly of him after there fight infact i have never heard him say bad word about Ali.
The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
But forgetting that yes ok you may not like his attitude but this isn't popularity contest aslong as he is great in the ring who cares theres been alot of boxers worse than Holmes outside the ring and i mean alot.
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5.
Who had better jab than Holmes in your opinion if you don't mind me asking ?? Holmes actually knocked down Ossie Ocasio with a jab Holmes had most powerful and the most snap to his jab than any other Heavyweight champions imo.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Holmes was a good/almost great champion. Anybody who can't see that is a fucking idiot. It's pretty much that simple.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division andthe sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant a** and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated,
I remember Holmes giving Ali credit and speaking highly of him after there fight infact i have never heard him say bad word about Ali.
The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
But forgetting that yes ok you may not like his attitude but this isn't popularity contest aslong as he is great in the ring who cares theres been alot of boxers worse than Holmes outside the ring and i mean alot.
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5.
Who had better jab than Holmes in your opinion if you don't mind me asking ?? Holmes actually knocked down Ossie Ocasio with a jab Holmes had most powerful and the most snap to his jab than any other Heavyweight champions imo.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Holmes was a good/almost great champion. Anybody who can't see that is a fucking idiot. It's pretty much that simple.
He was fantastic VD no question.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division andthe sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant a** and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated,
I remember Holmes giving Ali credit and speaking highly of him after there fight infact i have never heard him say bad word about Ali.
The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
But forgetting that yes ok you may not like his attitude but this isn't popularity contest aslong as he is great in the ring who cares theres been alot of boxers worse than Holmes outside the ring and i mean alot.
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5.
Who had better jab than Holmes in your opinion if you don't mind me asking ?? Holmes actually knocked down Ossie Ocasio with a jab Holmes had most powerful and the most snap to his jab than any other Heavyweight champions imo.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning. I
Im not saying i agree with his attitude i don't like it either but when i see someone who is fantastic fighter like Holmes then i don't care what there like outside the ring i only care about what they do inside the ring.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Im not denying Ali didn't have great jab but i believe Holmes had more snappy jab than Ali and also a more powerful one but i believe Ali had faster jab.
I do rate Ali with having the 2nd best jab in Heavyweight history with Holmes at number 1 but there could be a case made either way like you say.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Again, good fighter but horrible person that I will never be a fan of. Skill-wise i will respect him but i will not be a fan of his.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Again, good fighter but horrible person that I will never be a fan of. Skill-wise i will respect him but i will not be a fan of his.
Fair enough :coolclick: for the good debate.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division andthe sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant a** and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated,
I remember Holmes giving Ali credit and speaking highly of him after there fight infact i have never heard him say bad word about Ali.
The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
But forgetting that yes ok you may not like his attitude but this isn't popularity contest aslong as he is great in the ring who cares theres been alot of boxers worse than Holmes outside the ring and i mean alot.
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5.
Who had better jab than Holmes in your opinion if you don't mind me asking ?? Holmes actually knocked down Ossie Ocasio with a jab Holmes had most powerful and the most snap to his jab than any other Heavyweight champions imo.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning. I
Im not saying i agree with his attitude i don't like it either but when i see someone who is fantastic fighter like Holmes then i don't care what there like outside the ring i only care about what they do inside the ring.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Im not denying Ali didn't have great jab but i believe Holmes had more snappy jab than Ali and also a more powerful one but i believe Ali had faster jab.
I do rate Ali with having the 2nd best jab in Heavyweight history with Holmes at number 1 but there could be a case made either way like you say.
Worse behavior outside the ring? Come on? How can anybody not love that drop kick Holmes gave Trevor Berbick. All time classic.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division andthe sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant a** and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated,
I remember Holmes giving Ali credit and speaking highly of him after there fight infact i have never heard him say bad word about Ali.
The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
But forgetting that yes ok you may not like his attitude but this isn't popularity contest aslong as he is great in the ring who cares theres been alot of boxers worse than Holmes outside the ring and i mean alot.
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5.
Who had better jab than Holmes in your opinion if you don't mind me asking ?? Holmes actually knocked down Ossie Ocasio with a jab Holmes had most powerful and the most snap to his jab than any other Heavyweight champions imo.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning. I
Im not saying i agree with his attitude i don't like it either but when i see someone who is fantastic fighter like Holmes then i don't care what there like outside the ring i only care about what they do inside the ring.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Im not denying Ali didn't have great jab but i believe Holmes had more snappy jab than Ali and also a more powerful one but i believe Ali had faster jab.
I do rate Ali with having the 2nd best jab in Heavyweight history with Holmes at number 1 but there could be a case made either way like you say.
Worse behavior outside the ring? Come on? How can anybody not love that drop kick Holmes gave Trevor Berbick. All time classic.
Berbick was talking trash to Holmes he deserved that ass whooping it was classic *Larry holmes kicked me punched me*
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I fully believe you cannot be a diehard ali and holmes fan at the same time. After what ali did for the division andthe sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He completely disrespected champions that came before him and actually opened the door for him to even make a living and then retires to whine about how him being on top of the world for several years was one big "robery". The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5. You say he's in the top 3, I say he's in the top 10. He was skilled no doubt, 20 defenses against any opposition while owning a championship belt is impressive in most cases, but he's an arrogant a** and i don't mean ali arrogant, i mean arrogant on a whole nother level that makes it impossible to be a fan of his. Ali never bad mouthed the greats before him, just the ones he had to face (and beat). I can't stand him.
the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated,
I remember Holmes giving Ali credit and speaking highly of him after there fight infact i have never heard him say bad word about Ali.
The difference between holmes and all the other top 10 heavies of all time (whoever you may include) is that the others don't whine about the fact that they had it better than most people ever will even if it was only for a short period of time. Don't feel bad for me, i've lived the life of a king- tyson. Tyson can say that yet holmes has to feel like a victim? ::**
But forgetting that yes ok you may not like his attitude but this isn't popularity contest aslong as he is great in the ring who cares theres been alot of boxers worse than Holmes outside the ring and i mean alot.
You say he has the greatest jab in heavyweight history, I'd put it in the top 5.
Who had better jab than Holmes in your opinion if you don't mind me asking ?? Holmes actually knocked down Ossie Ocasio with a jab Holmes had most powerful and the most snap to his jab than any other Heavyweight champions imo.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Worse behavior outside the ring of course, worse attitude, I have to disagree with you. There's been armed robers that are going in the hall of fame and mob linked guys that are still praised to this day. None of those guys complained about the gifts boxing has given them EXCEPT holmes. I can look past a guy who's been in a gang and what not but turned his life around (kinda), I cannot look past someone whinning about having the best gifts life has to offer and saying they should've had more. Great fighter yes no question but i just can't look past the whinning. I
Im not saying i agree with his attitude i don't like it either but when i see someone who is fantastic fighter like Holmes then i don't care what there like outside the ring i only care about what they do inside the ring.
I've seen ali win fights by tko in the early rounds by soley using his jab and i mean just his jab, without landing any right hand shots (i'll gladly look them up for you later if you're interested but it might take awhile). If thats not atleast the first or second best i dunno what is. You can have holmes/ali 1,2 and i wouldn't disagree with it.
Im not denying Ali didn't have great jab but i believe Holmes had more snappy jab than Ali and also a more powerful one but i believe Ali had faster jab.
I do rate Ali with having the 2nd best jab in Heavyweight history with Holmes at number 1 but there could be a case made either way like you say.
Worse behavior outside the ring? Come on? How can anybody not love that drop kick Holmes gave Trevor Berbick. All time classic.
I'll give him that, thats one of the funniest things i've ever seen.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Oh man. That shit will make me laugh till the day I fucking die. Hilarious. Cc Ice
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
:coolclick: back VD it is a classic isn't it ??just watching it again makes me :lolhaha:
On serious note Berbick was making strange accusations at Holmes i think he accused him with sleeping with his wife or something what the hell was Berbick thinking saying that S*** to a guy that had already whooped his a** for 15 rounds back in 81.
I think Holmes went 5-0 in mma or something well he certainly showed some mma moves on Berbick ;)
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
I like Ali and Holmes both to me were great to watch kinda the same in was and different in others but both fun to watch
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
Again, good fighter but horrible person that I will never be a fan of. Skill-wise i will respect him but i will not be a fan of his.
Yes i loved him when he was in the ring , but he is total trash as a person , with no class at all like many fighters.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Why do people think Larry Holmes is such a bad person because he was full of him self and said he was the greatest i mean so he was mad he didn't get his fights and no one liked the guy or how good he was in the ring he just wanted some respect and yeah he made a bad comment on rocky and in a lot of ways he was far superior to the rock when it came to boxing i love the rock but come on Larry Holmes would kill him so he said rocky couldn't carry his jockstrap big deal who cares i mean he was probably mad because it was his time and all the talk about was Rocky's record i be mad to
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Why do people think Larry Holmes is such a bad person because he was full of him self and said he was the greatest i mean so he was mad he didn't get his fights and no one liked the guy or how good he was in the ring he just wanted some respect and yeah he made a bad comment on rocky and in a lot of ways he was far superior to the rock when it came to boxing i love the rock but come on Larry Holmes would kill him so he said rocky couldn't carry his jockstrap big deal who cares i mean he was probably mad because it was his time and all the talk about was Rocky's record i be mad to
I don't have a problem with inflated egos or normal arrogance but when you're so arrogant to the point where you believe you are worthy of everything in your life happening in a better way despite having a good life in this first place, it's just unacceptable.
edit: 3,000th post ;D
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Oh man. That S*** will make me laugh till the day I F****** die. Hilarious. Cc Ice
Oh Shit!!! :o That actually happened!?
CC for that vid ICB. Ive wanted to do that to someone all my life!! ;D
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
After what ali did for the division and the sport itself, holmes comes out, beats a shell of ali, calls him overrated, and calls himself (in an undirect way) the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time.
What about Ali? What about Ali beating the shit out of a 46 year old Archie Moore? What about him dancing and taunting the shell of a great former fighter who, along with others, opened the door for HIM to make money in this profession? What about him arrogantly predicting that he'd knock him out in 4 rounds? And of course what about Muhammad Ali claiming that HE was the greatest of all time? Sure, now he has a right to claim that but he was claiming that shit long before he had any right to do so.
See thats what I don't get. Muhammad Ali did the same shit Holmes did (he went even farther than Holmes as a matter of fact), but because Ali was charasmatic he got away with it. Its stupid really.
People give Holmes shit for being cocky, saying stuff like "Rocky couldn't carry my jockstrap". Ok, he insulted Rocky's inring ability. Look at the way Ali insulted guys like Liston and Frazier. Not only did he attack their inring ability, he made it personal. He called Joe Frazier an uncle Tom and a gorilla. It just amazes me how people are up Ali's ass but condemn others for doing the same stuff he did, even when its clearly on a much lesser scale.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
As far as Holmes being bitter, who the hell are we to say "well he had a good life anyway, he has no reason to complain." The fact that he isn't content with his fame and wealth says that the guy took boxing very seriously, and he does have a legitmate gripe because he was INCREDIBLY underrated and will probably never get the full credit he deserved. People like him and Aaron Pryor have the right to bitch. Holmes made boxing his life. He's gone through a lot of obstacles. Racism, disrespect from the public, the media and his peers. Obviously we all know the story of Cooney/Holmes where Cooney's dressing room had a direct line to the president so he could congradulate the winner, and Holmes' dressing room had nothing. And how they introduced Holmes (the CHAMP) first. And how people were saying Cooney was going to destroy Holmes. And then, after beating Cooney and proving everyone wrong, to still not get any credit for it.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Oh man. That S*** will make me laugh till the day I F****** die. Hilarious. Cc Ice
Oh S***!!! :o That actually happened!?
CC for that vid ICB. Ive wanted to do that to someone all my life!! ;D
:coolclick: back mate.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Again, good fighter but horrible person that I will never be a fan of. Skill-wise i will respect him but i will not be a fan of his.
If you think Larry Holmes is a horrible person,you dont know butkiss about Larry Holmes
He's donated millions to charity
Hes built youth centers all over the ABE area(often anonymously)
He more or less rebuilt his home town of Easton,which was urban blight in the 70's
He works tirelessly still,especially for former opponent Jerry Cooney's FIST charity,that helps out retired boxers
And as far as him getting screwed out of his place in history
How many times has the President of the United States had a phone installed in a challengers dressing room to make a congratulatory call,but doesnt have one installed in the champions
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Monkey, and thats the truth, hes a man of Honour who knows himself and boy could he fight cc
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
I said he has skills, I said he has given to charity. I simply cannot stand whinners. Thats it. I don't know why it's so hard to understand. Ali may have done all those things but he didn't whine about his success even when he ended up getting parkinson's. Besides when you age, you're supposed to mature. Ali has, holmes hasn't. Ali was more arrogant than holmes in many occasions, but he didn't turn around after saying he was the greatest and claim the whole thing was a crime against him.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
Ali may have done all those things but he didn't whine about his success even when he ended up getting parkinson's.
Why would he whine about his success, he's easily the most respected and revered boxer to ever live. Then you have Larry Holmes who feels that he was as good or better than Ali (whether he is or not, I think any unbiased boxing fan would admit that Larry Holmes was one of the better HWs of all time), and not getting 1/5000000th of the recognition or respect. I can see how it would be a hard pill for him to swallow.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
Ali may have done all those things but he didn't whine about his success even when he ended up getting parkinson's.
Why would he whine about his success, he's easily the most respected and revered boxer to ever live. Then you have Larry Holmes who feels that he was as good or better than Ali (whether he is or not, I think any unbiased boxing fan would admit that Larry Holmes was one of the better HWs of all time), and
not getting 1/5000000th of the recognition or respect. I can see how it would be a hard pill for him to swallow.
Ali wasn't in a best damn sports show period countdown.... ;D
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
Again, good fighter but horrible person that I will never be a fan of. Skill-wise i will respect him but i will not be a fan of his.
If you think Larry Holmes is a horrible person,you dont know butkiss about Larry Holmes
He's donated millions to charity
Hes built youth centers all over the ABE area(often anonymously)
He more or less rebuilt his home town of Easton,which was urban blight in the 70's
He works tirelessly still,especially for former opponent Jerry Cooney's FIST charity,that helps out retired boxers
And as far as him getting screwed out of his place in history
How many times has the President of the United States had a phone installed in a challengers dressing room to make a congratulatory call,but doesnt have one installed in the champions
How many times has the President of the United States had a phone installed in a challengers dressing room to make a congratulatory call,but doesnt have one installed in the champions
I remember that in the documentary on the tale of Holmes vs Cooney and even after all that and all the racism that was going on when Cooney and Holmes stood in middle of the ring Holmes said *lets have good fight*.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Ali may have done all those things but he didn't whine about his success even when he ended up getting parkinson's.
Why would he whine about his success, he's easily the most respected and revered boxer to ever live. Then you have Larry Holmes who feels that he was as good or better than Ali (whether he is or not, I think any unbiased boxing fan would admit that Larry Holmes was one of the better HWs of all time), and
not getting 1/5000000th of the recognition or respect. I can see how it would be a hard pill for him to swallow.
Ali wasn't in a best damn sports show period countdown.... ;D
Hahaha, CC
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
It also took quite a long time before Holmes started to get respect in his early career due to him not making olympic team when he lost to Duane Bobick in 1972 Olympic trials Holmes had to fight tough guys that nobody wanted to fight like 6 foot 5 Roy Tiger Williams man that guy was huge for that era its shame if he would of made Olympics and had won gold or silver or ect it would of been easier for him to climb his way through the ranks and make a name for himself much quicker then we could of seen Spinks vs Holmes, late 70s version of Ali vs Holmes, Foreman vs Holmes, Young vs Holmes, its shame Holmes made a name for himself a little to late.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Foreman vs Holmes would have been one for the ages (back in the 70s of course, not the shirade they tried to organize back several years ago). I was on Larry's site and he still talks shit about Foreman haha.
Holmes/Young would have been interesting too.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Foreman vs Holmes would have been one for the ages (back in the 70s of course, not the shirade they tried to organize back several years ago). I was on Larry's site and he still talks S*** about Foreman haha.
Holmes/Young would have been interesting too.
I think Holmes would of beat Foreman because after Rumble In The Jungle Foreman seem to lose his prime having that life and death struggle with Lyle then getting outboxed by Young i think Holmes would of beat Foreman similar way to how Young doing it staying on outside not allowing Foreman to get on inside as for Young vs Holmes i think Holmes would of had quite a bit of trouble with a prime Young because Young could make you look stupid with his counter punching style but Holmes would adjust and win a decision.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Oh man. That S*** will make me laugh till the day I F****** die. Hilarious. Cc Ice
Holmes flew in like Superman on Berbick, magnificent stuff!
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
I think Holmes would of beat Foreman because after Rumble In The Jungle Foreman seem to lose his prime having that life and death struggle with Lyle then getting outboxed by Young i think Holmes would of beat Foreman similar way to how Young doing it staying on outside not allowing Foreman to get on inside as for Young vs Holmes i think Holmes would of had quite a bit of trouble with a prime Young because Young could make you look stupid with his counter punching style but Holmes would adjust and win a decision.
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Agreed. I think Holmes would win a clear UD over pre or post RiTJ Foreman. Jab in Foreman's face for 15 rounds (aint that the smart money on most hypothetical Larry Holmes fights anyway?).
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
The only thing Ali had over Holmes was charisma, no way did he have better skills then Holmes, Maybe a better chin and thats doubtful too, since he was put down on his ass a few times also, Oh yea he could dance and run better then Holmes, and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks. Ali was despised by most until Howard Cosell took him under his wing and made him popular by giving him special air time. Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME. He never did what Holmes did in or out of the ring. I never seen Holmes disrespect an opponent in the ring and I never seen Ali do for his community as Holmes did in his home town of Easton Pennsylvania. And to this day he continues to help other fighters along with his friend Cooney.
Why is Ali considered the greatest of all time, because he said he was?. Holmes in his prime would have beat all of the all time greats. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. So you guys can make a hundred top ten best heavies list of all time and if Larry Holmes is not on top it doesn't mean shit to me.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Stebs
The only thing Ali had over Holmes was charisma, no way did he have better skills then Holmes, Maybe a better chin and thats doubtful too, since he was put down on his a** a few times also, Oh yea he could dance and run better then Holmes, and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks. Ali was despised by most until Howard Cosell took him under his wing and made him popular by giving him special air time. Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME. He never did what Holmes did in or out of the ring. I never seen Holmes disrespect an opponent in the ring and I never seen Ali do for his community as Holmes did in his home town of Easton Pennsylvania. And to this day he continues to help other fighters along with his friend Cooney.
Why is Ali considered the greatest of all time, because he said he was?. Holmes in his prime would have beat all of the all time greats. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. So you guys can make a hundred top ten best heavies list of all time and if Larry Holmes is not on top it doesn't mean S*** to me.
and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks.
Only time Holmes had close decision's was against Witherspoon when i thought Holmes won by 1 round and against Carl Williams when i also thought he won by 1 round i do agree with Norton fights vs Ali i thought Ali lost 2 out of 3 in the trilogy and the Young fight well he made Ali look terrible and should of won the decison and even in Ali's so called unbeatable prime he had split decision win over Doug Jones and was knocked down by Lightheayweight Henry Cooper now im not hating on Ali put people do seem to forget these facts when debating about Ali.
Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME.
Well i wouldn't go that far but he certainly wasn't a nice person even though i respected his skill i mean look at what he did in Patterson fight he kept embarrassing Patterson by *saying whats my name* now if people think Holmes is such a bad person then why did he show mercy on Ali by pulling back on his punches and even pleading with the ref to stop the fight ?? Ali disrespected every single one of his opponents.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Ali was given a loss for one of the norton fights. Whether he lost another or both of the others is debatable but the fact of the matter is he didn't steal the whole trilogy. Anybody he kept asking "What's my name?" to is justified. He changed his name after he converted to islam because he felt the name he was given was a slave name and bearing that name bothered him. Calling him that name was an insult to him after he changed it to muhammad ali. Don't insult the man unless you're prepared to look like a fool in the ring.
I know ali had his stumbles. He often didn't show up against people he felt were inferior to him and his ability. That cost him the first frazier fight and almost that cooper fight but again I remind you he was carrying cooper because he predicted a ko in round 5. Rewatch the fight and you'll see he was clearly carrying him until he got caught. He was not knocked out. Yes smelling salts were illegal and all that in the UK at the time but my argument is this: Ali was the world champion. There was no legitimate reason for it to take place overseas. Cooper I guess was a mandatory of sorts but he wasn't that high caliber of an opponent. There was no reason why ali should've had to travel to make that fight. And whether you like it or not, he came away the winner. People at ringside (commentators and even a doctor from what i've heard) knew he was doing things that weren't ok. They should've spoke up but they didn't. Therefor ali has the W and its never gonna be taken away from him so move on from that argument.
Haven't seen the doug jones fight in a long time. I can assure you that ali didn't feel threatened by him. If you think thats just me trying to cover for ali really being a bum watch the wepner fight involving an ali thats past it. Watch ali before the knockdown and watch him after. 2 completely different fighters. I wish he would've given his all in the early years and against his weaker opponents so we wouldn't be able to have these debates but he usually half assed it against them so I guess it comes with the territory of talking about the man. Most other all-time heavyweight greats didn't have the luxury of being able to cash it in for a night and still win a fight (even by ko when not trying at times).
Ali was the best boxer in the best era of his division. He has the greatest legacy of any heavyweight fighter. He doesn't hold any record like most consecutive this or that but he transcended sport more than any other athlete that was ever around. If holmes would've won that olympic trial fight like you mentioned maybe he would've been included in that late 70's era. He would got the fights that actually mattered but he dropped the ball. Just like I had no say whether ali showed up 100% against all his opposition, you had no say in holmes getting those fights.
It would've been a good match. Prime for prime, I got Ali. He WAS faster. Jab is debateable as is power but ali was faster and moved better. Would've been a great fight but it was never really an option so we need to let it go.
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Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Stebs
The only thing Ali had over Holmes was charisma, no way did he have better skills then Holmes, Maybe a better chin and thats doubtful too, since he was put down on his a** a few times also, Oh yea he could dance and run better then Holmes, and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks. Ali was despised by most until Howard Cosell took him under his wing and made him popular by giving him special air time. Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME. He never did what Holmes did in or out of the ring. I never seen Holmes disrespect an opponent in the ring and I never seen Ali do for his community as Holmes did in his home town of Easton Pennsylvania. And to this day he continues to help other fighters along with his friend Cooney.
Why is Ali considered the greatest of all time, because he said he was?. Holmes in his prime would have beat all of the all time greats. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. So you guys can make a hundred top ten best heavies list of all time and if Larry Holmes is not on top it doesn't mean S*** to me.
I actually agree with your opinion that Holmes would have beaten all of the ATG hws. But I gotta say that for all the flash Ali had, he does deserve his spot as the greatest of all time for the level of compedition he fought and beat.
I've seen Holmes disrespect a few guys in the ring. He fought some journeyman/bum named Rocky Pepelli in the early 90s and after the fight Pepelli claimed in the post fight interview that Larry was a racist and was making some racial slurs towards him in the ring like "common whiteboy lets see what you got", ect. And then while he was still giving the post fight interview, Larry walked by and started saying "you should be honored to have fought one of the greatest hws of all time!" and "Larry Holmes is very rich! He doesn't need to be fighting these bums on small cards for chump change". I think at the end Rocky admitting to being a big Holmes fan and they shook hands but Larry could be a dick when he wanted to. I mean this Pepeli bum was disrespecting Holmes too but still, it was funny,.
