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Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
I think Taylor last 5 should read 3-2.Honestly,I cant stand him.manufactured and filled with flaws.with Taylor,its bigger than technique.He seems stuck in "Idle" In fights Unwilling/unable to notch it up and kick the door down.
His legs look rigid,That wiiiiide stance and repetative "dipping forward" motion w/rt.hand at knee.I have said this In A previous thread,...but also vs. Pavlik I think He'll beat Pavlik,time him,Tag him!hope not.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Taylor's going to shut everybody up when he stops Pavlik
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Taylor did not look that impressive against Hopkins was hardly throwing any punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch and i also thought Wright won against Taylor and Spinks who had never fought at Middleweight and people were calling it a joke fight arguably beat Taylor in very highly disputed decision im sorry but i don't like it when fighters keep relying on the judges Taylor only just does enough to win and in my eyes he should have atleast 2 losses on his record but really and truthfully he could have been 0-4 any other night with different judges.
I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Well when you have come forward style like Pavlik of course your going to get hit but he still beat Miranda from pillar to post and was impressive doing it alot of people thought Miranda would beat Taylor believe it or not or atleast give him very tough fight.
Taylor doesn't have anywhere near the power Pavlik has and Pavlik is massive Middleweight and will pressure Taylor constantly now i know your going to comeback and say Winky pressured Taylor but difference is Pavlik hits alot harder than Winky and is bigger than Winky yes i know Winky is southpaw and is better fighter than Pavlik technically but i still think Pavlik will get to Taylor and i don't see Taylor stopping Pavlik from getting inside with his punches.
In the end im not writing off Taylor but i still think Pavlik will win and i hope he does so we can finally see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring for quite a while with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
As much as I dislike Taylor, I think people are writing him off way too quickly. Although I think he lost to Wright and maybe to Hopkins, he fought them well enough to get the nod from the judges. They weren't robberies along the lines of Quartey - Forrest either.
He might have looked like shit against Spinks and I don't think he ever really took Ouma as a serious threat, but he's got a fighter in Pavlik against whom he has the opportunity to display his superior technical skills.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Taylor's going to shut everybody up when he stops Pavlik
Taylor has not even been able to stop Emanuel Steward from talking cr@p to Taylor. LOL
I want Kelly to win. He will be good for the sport.
Great white hope don't fail us now!
I just hope we have Steward and Taylor on opposite sides of the planet.
I hope it gets so bad in Jermain's corner that it turns into something like this:
[youtube=425,350]0DTJiS0vZ10[/youtube]
Jose Cotto (Miguel Cottos brother) did not want to go back to his corner (9th round?) because his uncle was yelling at him in between rounds ;D He was not listening to his corner. Another thing that made Jose angry was that his uncle was throwing water at Jose's face with a sponge. According to Jose, his uncle was throwing it very hard and with bad intentions ;D
Maybe next time they will add a little water softer to the bucket ;D
I don't think Evangelista is trianing Jose anymore.
I hope Jermain spaps and goes off on Steward.
;D
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Taylor's going to shut everybody up when he stops Pavlik
Well unless Taylor is alowed to take a bat into the ring with him he aint stopping anyone. If anyone is getting stopped its Taylor, although i see taylor maybe jabbing his way to a 12 round UD, i think pavlik is to slow to really impose him self on taylor.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
I think Taylor beats Pavlik in almost all aspects except the one punch kayo power. I think Taylor would outbox Pavlik but I'm still rooting for the soft-spoken Pavlik.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Yeh I feel Taylor will come good in this fight and I agree he will show why he is the best world middleweight. For me Pavlik is very overrated and I say Taylor easy UD.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
I just saw the Taylor Pavlik countdown and I'm really amazed by the fact that Pavlik sticked with his old trainer, this Pavlik guy is genuinely humble IMO. Win or lose this coming saturday he's my second favorite fighter next to PAC :)
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Taylor did not look that impressive against Hopkins was hardly throwing any punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch and i also thought Wright won against Taylor and Spinks who had never fought at Middleweight and people were calling it a joke fight arguably beat Taylor in very highly disputed decision im sorry but i don't like it when fighters keep relying on the judges Taylor only just does enough to win and in my eyes he should have atleast 2 losses on his record but really and truthfully he could have been 0-4 any other night with different judges.
I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Well when you have come forward style like Pavlik of course your going to get hit but he still beat Miranda from pillar to post and was impressive doing it alot of people thought Miranda would beat Taylor believe it or not or atleast give him very tough fight.
Taylor doesn't have anywhere near the power Pavlik has and Pavlik is massive Middleweight and will pressure Taylor constantly now i know your going to comeback and say Winky pressured Taylor but difference is Pavlik hits alot harder than Winky and is bigger than Winky yes i know Winky is southpaw and is better fighter than Pavlik technically but i still think Pavlik will get to Taylor and i don't see Taylor stopping Pavlik from getting inside with his punches.
In the end im not writing off Taylor but i still think Pavlik will win and i hope he does so we can finally see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring for quite a while with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Taylor did not look that impressive against Hopkins was hardly throwing any punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch and i also thought Wright won against Taylor and Spinks who had never fought at Middleweight and people were calling it a joke fight arguably beat Taylor in very highly disputed decision im sorry but i don't like it when fighters keep relying on the judges Taylor only just does enough to win and in my eyes he should have atleast 2 losses on his record but really and truthfully he could have been 0-4 any other night with different judges.
I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Well when you have come forward style like Pavlik of course your going to get hit but he still beat Miranda from pillar to post and was impressive doing it alot of people thought Miranda would beat Taylor believe it or not or atleast give him very tough fight.
Taylor doesn't have anywhere near the power Pavlik has and Pavlik is massive Middleweight and will pressure Taylor constantly now i know your going to comeback and say Winky pressured Taylor but difference is Pavlik hits alot harder than Winky and is bigger than Winky yes i know Winky is southpaw and is better fighter than Pavlik technically but i still think Pavlik will get to Taylor and i don't see Taylor stopping Pavlik from getting inside with his punches.
In the end im not writing off Taylor but i still think Pavlik will win and i hope he does so we can finally see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring for quite a while with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
Well its quite easy to win rounds win your opponent isn't fighting not taking anything away from Taylor but come on Hopkins wasn't doing anything just look at the punchstats and how many punches Hopkins was throwing and landing it was a joke landing 8 punches a round on average and less in some rounds Hopkins just wern't doing anything in early rounds nothing at all he only started to fight in later rounds in both fights and he won those rounds clearly he waited too long had he done more in early going he would of won both fights.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks
Why's that ?? Mayorga who isn't a good fighter technically and throws wide punches and quite alot of people thought Mayorga got robbed vs Spinks in there fight i don't see how you think Spinks would win easy ud considering Pavlik is much bigger and stronger and is certainly a better fighter than Mayorga.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
I'm not a fan in the slightest so I'm not trying to make excuses for him but there's something to be said for the fact that his last four opponents were all akward fighters, each guy had different styles but all akward in their own way. So, maybe that has had something to do with him looking less than spectacular. Not to mention Winky and Hopkins are just great fighters.
I just wonder if he can take the power cause he's not a Pernell Whitaker, he's gonna get hit and Pavlik can really punch. Also he could have stamina issues if he doesn't end it early to mid. Still favoring him for some reason although I wouldn't be shocked either way.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
He just doesn't excite me. He has good sharp punches but not very much heart.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Taylor fan here....
Yes he deserves the flack...all of it.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Taylor did not look that impressive against Hopkins was hardly throwing any punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch and i also thought Wright won against Taylor and Spinks who had never fought at Middleweight and people were calling it a joke fight arguably beat Taylor in very highly disputed decision im sorry but i don't like it when fighters keep relying on the judges Taylor only just does enough to win and in my eyes he should have atleast 2 losses on his record but really and truthfully he could have been 0-4 any other night with different judges.
I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Well when you have come forward style like Pavlik of course your going to get hit but he still beat Miranda from pillar to post and was impressive doing it alot of people thought Miranda would beat Taylor believe it or not or atleast give him very tough fight.
Taylor doesn't have anywhere near the power Pavlik has and Pavlik is massive Middleweight and will pressure Taylor constantly now i know your going to comeback and say Winky pressured Taylor but difference is Pavlik hits alot harder than Winky and is bigger than Winky yes i know Winky is southpaw and is better fighter than Pavlik technically but i still think Pavlik will get to Taylor and i don't see Taylor stopping Pavlik from getting inside with his punches.
In the end im not writing off Taylor but i still think Pavlik will win and i hope he does so we can finally see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring for quite a while with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
Well its quite easy to win rounds win your opponent isn't fighting not taking anything away from Taylor but come on Hopkins wasn't doing anything just look at the punchstats and how many punches Hopkins was throwing and landing it was a joke landing 8 punches a round on average and less in some rounds Hopkins just wern't doing anything in early rounds nothing at all he only started to fight in later rounds in both fights and he won those rounds clearly he waited too long had he done more in early going he would of won both fights.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks
Why's that ?? Mayorga who isn't a good fighter technically and throws wide punches and quite alot of people thought Mayorga got robbed vs Spinks in there fight i don't see how you think Spinks would win easy ud considering Pavlik is much bigger and stronger and is certainly a better fighter than Mayorga.
Let me throw my pennies in here. Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights, for me Hopkins started to come on far too late in the fights to be the winner. Taylor looked tentative and gassed at the end of the first fight but he had put the rounds in the bank in my opinion, just like Spinks had done with Karmazin.
I actually believe though that Bernard lost those fights rather Taylor won. Even Emmanunel himself has conceded in interviews that Bernard is a better fighter than Jermain but he just fought too cautiously and paid the price.
Since then though Taylor hasn't impressed me much if at all. Against a Winky Wright who was willing to stand in front and trade Taylor was at his most explosive and punded Winky all night long. However Winky, a much smaller and much older man pounded right back at him and (should have) beat Taylor in a straight shootout. Most felt Winky won the fight and certainly if he hadn't have eased off the gas peddle in the last round he would have. Taylor's eye was a swollen mess and he hardly looked durable did. Smaller and supposedly lesser fighters than Taylor, i.e Soliman, Quartey etc traded with Winky and didn't get as hurt as Taylor did which makes me think for his size Taylor isn't particularly strong or durable.
His fight with Ouma started pretty impressively. He effectively nullified Ouma's punchout by half as Ouma was fearful to come in and throw his usual 100+ punches a round. By the final third of the fight though I felt it was actually looking embarrassing for Taylor. Ouma had clearly decided Taylor couldn't hurt him and was walking through him pretty much. Taylor said himself he really gassed out in that fight and yet it wasn't even a particularly hard paced fight.
As for the Spinks fight, that was just terrible plain and simple. I actually think Spinks has subsequently been slightly overrated off the back of that performance. No matter how good defensively he is, no matter how elusive he is, at the end of the day he's a welterweight with a known suspect chin and stamina issues.
Taylor should have blown him out of there, just constantly walking forward and throwing punches whether they landed or not. Zab Judah showed basically in both fights how to handle Spinks. He started slow in the first fight and a flash knockdown ultimately put him too far behind but he still had Corey out on his feet in the final round and without a shadow of a doubt had that been a 15 round round fight Spinks would have been KO'd.
In the rematch Judah was more aggressive from the outset and consequently beat the shat out of Spinks.
Furthermore Spinks hardly looked impressive in winning his 154lb title against Roman Karmazin who even without throwing anything had Spinks out on his feet over the last couple rounds.
And then look at Corey's title defense, he fought an ancient has been in Rodney Jones in a fight that Showtime didn't even televise.
He's a very good welterweight fighter, although I'd fancy the likes of Mayweather, Williams, Cotto and Mosely to beat him but at middleweight he should have been completely out of his depth.
To the guy who said Spinks would easiliy UD Pavlik, I completely disagree. Pavlik would come looking for Spinks, not hold back like Taylor did and have far too much power for. KO inside 6 rounds imo.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights
Me too mate - 115-113 both times
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
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Originally Posted by BIG H
Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights
Me too mate - 115-113 both times
Wow I've finally met the only other guy who agrees me with me.
We are a rare breed brother 8)
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Taylor did not look that impressive against Hopkins was hardly throwing any punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch and i also thought Wright won against Taylor and Spinks who had never fought at Middleweight and people were calling it a joke fight arguably beat Taylor in very highly disputed decision im sorry but i don't like it when fighters keep relying on the judges Taylor only just does enough to win and in my eyes he should have atleast 2 losses on his record but really and truthfully he could have been 0-4 any other night with different judges.
I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Well when you have come forward style like Pavlik of course your going to get hit but he still beat Miranda from pillar to post and was impressive doing it alot of people thought Miranda would beat Taylor believe it or not or atleast give him very tough fight.
Taylor doesn't have anywhere near the power Pavlik has and Pavlik is massive Middleweight and will pressure Taylor constantly now i know your going to comeback and say Winky pressured Taylor but difference is Pavlik hits alot harder than Winky and is bigger than Winky yes i know Winky is southpaw and is better fighter than Pavlik technically but i still think Pavlik will get to Taylor and i don't see Taylor stopping Pavlik from getting inside with his punches.
In the end im not writing off Taylor but i still think Pavlik will win and i hope he does so we can finally see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring for quite a while with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
Well its quite easy to win rounds win your opponent isn't fighting not taking anything away from Taylor but come on Hopkins wasn't doing anything just look at the punchstats and how many punches Hopkins was throwing and landing it was a joke landing 8 punches a round on average and less in some rounds Hopkins just wern't doing anything in early rounds nothing at all he only started to fight in later rounds in both fights and he won those rounds clearly he waited too long had he done more in early going he would of won both fights.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks
Why's that ?? Mayorga who isn't a good fighter technically and throws wide punches and quite alot of people thought Mayorga got robbed vs Spinks in there fight i don't see how you think Spinks would win easy ud considering Pavlik is much bigger and stronger and is certainly a better fighter than Mayorga.
Let me throw my pennies in here. Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights, for me Hopkins started to come on far too late in the fights to be the winner. Taylor looked tentative and gassed at the end of the first fight but he had put the rounds in the bank in my opinion, just like Spinks had done with Karmazin.
I actually believe though that Bernard lost those fights rather Taylor won. Even Emmanunel himself has conceded in interviews that Bernard is a better fighter than Jermain but he just fought too cautiously and paid the price.
Since then though Taylor hasn't impressed me much if at all. Against a Winky Wright who was willing to stand in front and trade Taylor was at his most explosive and punded Winky all night long. However Winky, a much smaller and much older man pounded right back at him and (should have) beat Taylor in a straight shootout. Most felt Winky won the fight and certainly if he hadn't have eased off the gas peddle in the last round he would have. Taylor's eye was a swollen mess and he hardly looked durable did. Smaller and supposedly lesser fighters than Taylor, i.e Soliman, Quartey etc traded with Winky and didn't get as hurt as Taylor did which makes me think for his size Taylor isn't particularly strong or durable.
His fight with Ouma started pretty impressively. He effectively nullified Ouma's punchout by half as Ouma was fearful to come in and throw his usual 100+ punches a round. By the final third of the fight though I felt it was actually looking embarrassing for Taylor. Ouma had clearly decided Taylor couldn't hurt him and was walking through him pretty much. Taylor said himself he really gassed out in that fight and yet it wasn't even a particularly hard paced fight.
As for the Spinks fight, that was just terrible plain and simple. I actually think Spinks has subsequently been slightly overrated off the back of that performance. No matter how good defensively he is, no matter how elusive he is, at the end of the day he's a welterweight with a known suspect chin and stamina issues.
Taylor should have blown him out of there, just constantly walking forward and throwing punches whether they landed or not. Zab Judah showed basically in both fights how to handle Spinks. He started slow in the first fight and a flash knockdown ultimately put him too far behind but he still had Corey out on his feet in the final round and without a shadow of a doubt had that been a 15 round round fight Spinks would have been KO'd.
In the rematch Judah was more aggressive from the outset and consequently beat the shat out of Spinks.
Furthermore Spinks hardly looked impressive in winning his 154lb title against Roman Karmazin who even without throwing anything had Spinks out on his feet over the last couple rounds.
And then look at Corey's title defense, he fought an ancient has been in Rodney Jones in a fight that Showtime didn't even televise.
He's a very good welterweight fighter, although I'd fancy the likes of Mayweather, Williams, Cotto and Mosely to beat him but at middleweight he should have been completely out of his depth.
To the guy who said Spinks would easiliy UD Pavlik, I completely disagree. Pavlik would come looking for Spinks, not hold back like Taylor did and have far too much power for. KO inside 6 rounds imo.
I usually totally and utterly disagree with you but that is 1 dam fine post Baggins. I agreed with everything you wrote.Word for word. CC in24. And as for Spinks beating Pavlikmthat is ridiculous. Kelly would win the rounds on activity alone,his stamina is better,he's bigger,stronger and far more powerful. Kelly would knock him out.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights
Me too mate - 115-113 both times
Wow I've finally met the only other guy who agrees me with me.
We are a rare breed brother 8)
I thought both fight's were sh1t and they both fought like girls, but I think Taylor just about one more rounds. People think Hopkins won the fight becuase the rounds that he won, he won very convincingly (well atleast the last 3 rounds of the 1st fight) whereas Taylor's rounds were not that impressive, just stolen.
The thing is with the 10 point must system, it doesn't matter if Taylor didn't land a punch in 5 of the rounds as longs as he landed a few more in 7 of the rounds he wins.
Crude eample, but you get my drift
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I just watched Taylor-Hopkins 2, and I felt it was a draw, but Taylor looked pretty impressive against Hopkins. Then I watched him against Wright and even though he lost IMO I felt he gave a good showing against an amazing southpaw. The only bad fight I saw was against Ouma who he dominated for a lot of the fight. I would say the Spinks fight was a bad fight, but Taylor tried to box a guy who was a lot faster and an incredible boxer when its comes to technical evaluation. I would like to see Pavlik catch Spinks in a ring. I am not saying Taylor will win, but I think that he should be the favorite to win. He is faster, physically stronger IMO, and more skilled than Pavlik. His power is underrated, he has great speed for a middleweight and he is fighting a orthodox fighter for the first time since Hopkins which means he will be able to use his best punch, the jab, again. I think people are really discounting Taylor's athleticism here which is vastly superior to that of Pavlik. I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Taylor did not look that impressive against Hopkins was hardly throwing any punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch and i also thought Wright won against Taylor and Spinks who had never fought at Middleweight and people were calling it a joke fight arguably beat Taylor in very highly disputed decision im sorry but i don't like it when fighters keep relying on the judges Taylor only just does enough to win and in my eyes he should have atleast 2 losses on his record but really and truthfully he could have been 0-4 any other night with different judges.
I mean Miranda was hitting Pavlik, and Miranda has some of the slowest punches I've seen at that level. If Taylor can relax, and use lateral movement along with keeping his hands up I can't see him losing, but I don't think he will do all that which makes this an interesting fight.
Well when you have come forward style like Pavlik of course your going to get hit but he still beat Miranda from pillar to post and was impressive doing it alot of people thought Miranda would beat Taylor believe it or not or atleast give him very tough fight.
Taylor doesn't have anywhere near the power Pavlik has and Pavlik is massive Middleweight and will pressure Taylor constantly now i know your going to comeback and say Winky pressured Taylor but difference is Pavlik hits alot harder than Winky and is bigger than Winky yes i know Winky is southpaw and is better fighter than Pavlik technically but i still think Pavlik will get to Taylor and i don't see Taylor stopping Pavlik from getting inside with his punches.
In the end im not writing off Taylor but i still think Pavlik will win and i hope he does so we can finally see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring for quite a while with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks.
How did Taylor not look impressive against Hopkins? Most people thought he was going to get owned in both fights, and he held his own. Hopkins had a hard time finding him for most of both fights. Also nobody had really given Hopkins a really difficult fight in a long time. Also after that Hopkins looked good against both Wright and Tarver though I feel the Wright fight was very even.
Well its quite easy to win rounds win your opponent isn't fighting not taking anything away from Taylor but come on Hopkins wasn't doing anything just look at the punchstats and how many punches Hopkins was throwing and landing it was a joke landing 8 punches a round on average and less in some rounds Hopkins just wern't doing anything in early rounds nothing at all he only started to fight in later rounds in both fights and he won those rounds clearly he waited too long had he done more in early going he would of won both fights.
As for against Spinks I personally had Spinks winning the fight, but like I said IMO Spinks-Pavlik is a heavily 1 one sided UD for Spinks
Why's that ?? Mayorga who isn't a good fighter technically and throws wide punches and quite alot of people thought Mayorga got robbed vs Spinks in there fight i don't see how you think Spinks would win easy ud considering Pavlik is much bigger and stronger and is certainly a better fighter than Mayorga.
Let me throw my pennies in here. Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights, for me Hopkins started to come on far too late in the fights to be the winner. Taylor looked tentative and gassed at the end of the first fight but he had put the rounds in the bank in my opinion, just like Spinks had done with Karmazin.
I actually believe though that Bernard lost those fights rather Taylor won. Even Emmanunel himself has conceded in interviews that Bernard is a better fighter than Jermain but he just fought too cautiously and paid the price.
Since then though Taylor hasn't impressed me much if at all. Against a Winky Wright who was willing to stand in front and trade Taylor was at his most explosive and punded Winky all night long. However Winky, a much smaller and much older man pounded right back at him and (should have) beat Taylor in a straight shootout. Most felt Winky won the fight and certainly if he hadn't have eased off the gas peddle in the last round he would have. Taylor's eye was a swollen mess and he hardly looked durable did. Smaller and supposedly lesser fighters than Taylor, i.e Soliman, Quartey etc traded with Winky and didn't get as hurt as Taylor did which makes me think for his size Taylor isn't particularly strong or durable.
His fight with Ouma started pretty impressively. He effectively nullified Ouma's punchout by half as Ouma was fearful to come in and throw his usual 100+ punches a round. By the final third of the fight though I felt it was actually looking embarrassing for Taylor. Ouma had clearly decided Taylor couldn't hurt him and was walking through him pretty much. Taylor said himself he really gassed out in that fight and yet it wasn't even a particularly hard paced fight.
As for the Spinks fight, that was just terrible plain and simple. I actually think Spinks has subsequently been slightly overrated off the back of that performance. No matter how good defensively he is, no matter how elusive he is, at the end of the day he's a welterweight with a known suspect chin and stamina issues.
Taylor should have blown him out of there, just constantly walking forward and throwing punches whether they landed or not. Zab Judah showed basically in both fights how to handle Spinks. He started slow in the first fight and a flash knockdown ultimately put him too far behind but he still had Corey out on his feet in the final round and without a shadow of a doubt had that been a 15 round round fight Spinks would have been KO'd.
In the rematch Judah was more aggressive from the outset and consequently beat the shat out of Spinks.
Furthermore Spinks hardly looked impressive in winning his 154lb title against Roman Karmazin who even without throwing anything had Spinks out on his feet over the last couple rounds.
And then look at Corey's title defense, he fought an ancient has been in Rodney Jones in a fight that Showtime didn't even televise.
He's a very good welterweight fighter, although I'd fancy the likes of Mayweather, Williams, Cotto and Mosely to beat him but at middleweight he should have been completely out of his depth.
To the guy who said Spinks would easiliy UD Pavlik, I completely disagree. Pavlik would come looking for Spinks, not hold back like Taylor did and have far too much power for. KO inside 6 rounds imo.
I usually totally and utterly disagree with you but that is 1 dam fine post Baggins. I agreed with everything you wrote.Word for word. CC in24. And as for Spinks beating Pavlikmthat is ridiculous. Kelly would win the rounds on activity alone,his stamina is better,he's bigger,stronger and far more powerful. Kelly would knock him out.
Wow my little poetry loving slightly effeminate friend I'm staggered. That I could write around 5 whole paragraphs and not have you disagree with any of it has to be a first in our time here. It's probably because the subject wasn't little child men but still impressive.
Just for the record though it's actually me that disagrees with you ;)
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights
Me too mate - 115-113 both times
Wow I've finally met the only other guy who agrees me with me.
We are a rare breed brother 8)
I thought both fight's were sh1t and they both fought like girls, but I think Taylor just about one more rounds. People think Hopkins won the fight becuase the rounds that he won, he won very convincingly (well atleast the last 3 rounds of the 1st fight) whereas Taylor's rounds were not that impressive, just stolen.
The thing is with the 10 point must system, it doesn't matter if Taylor didn't land a punch in 5 of the rounds as longs as he landed a few more in 7 of the rounds he wins.
Crude eample, but you get my drift
:coolclick: that's exactly how I saw it. In a way they both deserved to lose and the title remain vacant. ;D
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Taylor's going to shut everybody up when he stops Pavlik
Still annoying enough people here I see by your sad click standing there Vi, Have a cool click from me just for being honest and BLUNT. LOL.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Regarding the Hopkins fights I actually felt Taylor did enough to win both fights
Me too mate - 115-113 both times
Wow I've finally met the only other guy who agrees me with me.
We are a rare breed brother 8)
I thought both fight's were sh1t and they both fought like girls, but I think Taylor just about one more rounds. People think Hopkins won the fight becuase the rounds that he won, he won very convincingly (well atleast the last 3 rounds of the 1st fight) whereas Taylor's rounds were not that impressive, just stolen.
The thing is with the 10 point must system, it doesn't matter if Taylor didn't land a punch in 5 of the rounds as longs as he landed a few more in 7 of the rounds he wins.
Crude eample, but you get my drift
Funny enough BIG H 1st fight was more controversial but i had Hopkins winning the 2nd fight and losing the first one.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
i'm watching the first fight now. After the first three i have taylor winning all 3 rounds. Not much excitement though. Kind of a technical snoozefest.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexydarin
i'm watching the first fight now. After the first three i have taylor winning all 3 rounds. Not much excitement though. Kind of a technical snoozefest.
Hopkins speciality :)
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Yes, people are much too tough on him. I guess it's because he while he's won, he hasn't had one those dominating performances to really impress people. But look at his last 5 bouts. 3 of them were against consensus top 5 p4p fighters (2 bouts versus Hopkins, 1 against Wright), and he went 2-0-1 in those 3 fights. Yes, all 3 bouts were debatable, but all 3 were legitimately close fights. If you fight Hopkins and Wright to a stand still, you are a damn good fighter. But, it's really been the last two fights that have folks down on him. People apparently think he should have blown through Spinks and Ouma because they were coming up in weight. But these two are no bums; both are world class caliber fighters. And it isn't as if these guys were coming up 3 weight classes or something; both had been fighting at 154 for a while. He won both decisions handedly, albeit not excitingly (some people indicated that they scored Spinks the winner, which absolutely stuns me, I see no criteria whatsoever where one could score the fight for Spinks, unless a determination to survive and not fight is considered strong criteria by some). So, in his last 4 bouts he is 4-0-1 versus 4 current or former world champions and 2 top 5 p4p fighters. Than is an excellent resume by any standard. I think the Pavlik fight will be very entertaining, but Kelly will be outclassed at the end of the day.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
....Jermain has set the bar pretty freakin high as he took out Bernard Hopkins as close of a fight as it was JT still beat him.
Pavlik is a tough customer and it'll be a tough fight but it's the fight everyone wants to see and JT is all about making the right fights, say what you will about Ouma and Spinks, JT has fought Hopkins twice and Winky Wright...not too shabby
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
If he listens to steward, no problem...
Oh i forgot to mention. In a post-fight interview Manny Steward stated that Andy Lee would be middleweight champion of the world by the end of 2008. Kronk plan to dominate two weights with Taylor vacating?
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Taylor's going to shut everybody up when he stops Pavlik
Taylor has not even been able to stop Emanuel Steward from talking cr@p to Taylor. LOL
I want Kelly to win. He will be good for the sport.
Great white hope don't fail us now!
I just hope we have Steward and Taylor on opposite sides of the planet.
I hope it gets so bad in Jermain's corner that it turns into something like this:
[youtube=425,350]0DTJiS0vZ10[/youtube]
Jose Cotto (Miguel Cottos brother) did not want to go back to his corner (9th round?) because his uncle was yelling at him in between rounds ;D He was not listening to his corner. Another thing that made Jose angry was that his uncle was throwing water at Jose's face with a sponge. According to Jose, his uncle was throwing it very hard and with bad intentions ;D
Maybe next time they will add a little water softer to the bucket ;D
I don't think Evangelista is trianing Jose anymore.
I hope Jermain spaps and goes off on Steward.
;D
That was funny. How did Jose do in that fight?
As for Taylor I do think he gets too much flak. At least he's stayed active and been fighting top tier opponents with difficult styles that tend to be unflattering for opponents. Hopkins, Wright and Spinks are all three master technicians and Taylor did well enough to get the decisions, even if not everyone agrees that he should have. I don't think Taylor can be accused of ducking tough fights and personally I think thats enough to earn some respect.
The only concern I have is that having that string of fights against slippery, unorthodox, defensive fighters may have gotten into his head a little and made him less aggressive/ more reluctant to commit to his shots. I think thats what people were seeing a bit of in the Spinks fight and I think the Pavlik fight should answer some questions about whether he can shake that tentativeness.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
He's not getting flak for the fights he's taking, it's his lack of a killer instinct. He almost lost the fight to winky wright because he backed off in the last round.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
I hear that, it just seems to me like you can't blame the guy for being a bit more cautious when he's fighting top tier guys who have awkward styles and specialize in defense and countering. These were more experienced fighters who have racked up wins by making people pay for every mistake.
I'm not saying that your question isn't valid, but I think he definitely gets more flak and less credit than he should.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Funny to see how MUCH flack he is taking........the guy is currently and undeafeated champion, for the poor guy always winning isn't enough.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
You know, JT has gotten alot of heat that is really undeserved becuause he did win those fights, but he did not do it by KO so no one wants to accept it. If you think JT didnt win all those fights, dont blame him, blame the judges, as for JT, he did his job, he went into the ring and fought and faced whoever got put in front of him like a champ should do. He gladly wanted the rematch with hopkins, he gladly wanted the fight with Winky, he even told winky he'd fight him again but winky declined. Now say what you want, but taylor beat pretty hard on wink in that fight, winks says he dont want to fight JT because he'll just get ripped off again, but I think he felt JT's power and knew that he might get knocked out if he were to get back in for 12 more rounds.
Now onto the so called softer spoken pavlik. I like pavlik, he seems like a nice guy who respects his opponents, well so was JT and for the most part he still is. I'd get riled up in his situation way more than he does, I mean its got to be disheartening with all his hard work that no one seems to respect him or what hes accomplished, and most would agree that taylor is one of the nicest kindest guys to come along in boxing in a long time, so is pavlik but maybe kelly should take a closer look at the way JT's been treated and get a little meaner with everyone, afterall, taylor went the nice guy route and has received nothing but troubles and turmoil from the media and the fans because of it, I feel sorry for the guy, hes in a no win situation. Just remember, JT has always been respectful and soft spoken just like pavlik, I personally dont see how JT keeps his cool so much with everyone badgering him all the time, probabaly becasue he is a nice guy and they take advantage because they know his nature allows them to push and prod at him beyond the norm. Its a shame our society finally gets a champ who isnt or hasnt been in jail, doesnt do drugs or neglect his family, respects the hard working people who buy the tickets because he knows what it feels like to have nothing............yet the fans the media and society in general want to crucify the guy for being a standup hard working honest man. You guys want the truth, HBO promotes JT becasue of the way he is, becasue of the good things I mentioned, Since lennox Lewis, they've not had much to hang their hats on, most of them have been thugs that cant stay out of trouble, so there you have it, he is champ, he worked for it, he did not dodge anyone and even took the winky fight instead of an easier fight, hes respectful to everyone and all folks want to do is discredit his rep and stomp him in the ground, I tell ya, when you stop and think about the way JT gets treated by most its really shamefull. If they ever treat kelly pavlik that way it will be shamefull once more, neither one of them deserve to go thru that kind of crap :(
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman
You know, JT has gotten alot of heat that is really undeserved becuause he did win those fights, but he did not do it by KO so no one wants to accept it. If you think JT didnt win all those fights, dont blame him, blame the judges, as for JT, he did his job, he went into the ring and fought and faced whoever got put in front of him like a champ should do. He gladly wanted the rematch with hopkins, he gladly wanted the fight with Winky, he even told winky he'd fight him again but winky declined. Now say what you want, but taylor beat pretty hard on wink in that fight, winks says he dont want to fight JT because he'll just get ripped off again, but I think he felt JT's power and knew that he might get knocked out if he were to get back in for 12 more rounds.
Now onto the so called softer spoken pavlik. I like pavlik, he seems like a nice guy who respects his opponents, well so was JT and for the most part he still is. I'd get riled up in his situation way more than he does, I mean its got to be disheartening with all his hard work that no one seems to respect him or what hes accomplished, and most would agree that taylor is one of the nicest kindest guys to come along in boxing in a long time, so is pavlik but maybe kelly should take a closer look at the way JT's been treated and get a little meaner with everyone, afterall, taylor went the nice guy route and has received nothing but troubles and turmoil from the media and the fans because of it, I feel sorry for the guy, hes in a no win situation. Just remember, JT has always been respectful and soft spoken just like pavlik, I personally dont see how JT keeps his cool so much with everyone badgering him all the time, probabaly becasue he is a nice guy and they take advantage because they know his nature allows them to push and prod at him beyond the norm. Its a shame our society finally gets a champ who isnt or hasnt been in jail, doesnt do drugs or neglect his family, respects the hard working people who buy the tickets because he knows what it feels like to have nothing............yet the fans the media and society in general want to crucify the guy for being a standup hard working honest man. You guys want the truth, HBO promotes JT becasue of the way he is, becasue of the good things I mentioned, Since lennox Lewis, they've not had much to hang their hats on, most of them have been thugs that cant stay out of trouble, so there you have it, he is champ, he worked for it, he did not dodge anyone and even took the winky fight instead of an easier fight, hes respectful to everyone and all folks want to do is discredit his rep and stomp him in the ground, I tell ya, when you stop and think about the way JT gets treated by most its really shamefull. If they ever treat kelly pavlik that way it will be shamefull once more, neither one of them deserve to go thru that kind of crap :(
You know, JT has gotten alot of heat that is really undeserved becuause he did win those fights, but he did not do it by KO so no one wants to accept it. If you think JT didnt win all those fights, dont blame him, blame the judges, as for JT, he did his job, he went into the ring and fought and faced whoever got put in front of him like a champ should do. He gladly wanted the rematch with hopkins, he gladly wanted the fight with Winky, he even told winky he'd fight him again but winky declined. Now say what you want, but taylor beat pretty hard on wink in that fight, winks says he dont want to fight JT because he'll just get ripped off again, but I think he felt JT's power and knew that he might get knocked out if he were to get back in for 12 more rounds.
No your totally wrong no one goes off that he didn't ko fighters like Hopkins and Wright its nothing to do with that its based on Taylor and his gift decisions against natural Welterweight Spinks Winky, Hopkins, im tired of him relying on the judges all the time and his lacklusture performances i think he should have atleast 2 losses on his record and as for Winky vs Taylor what fight were you watching Taylor beat on Winky pretty hard huh ?? i seem to remember Taylor's eye almost closed and Winky landing more power shots and also more than 60 punches overall and was catching alot of Taylor's punches on the arms and gloves so i don't know what fight you was watching but Taylor certainly did not look like a winner in my eyes i had Taylor losing the fight.
Now onto the so called softer spoken pavlik. I like pavlik, he seems like a nice guy who respects his opponents, well so was JT and for the most part he still is. I'd get riled up in his situation way more than he does, I mean its got to be disheartening with all his hard work that no one seems to respect him or what hes accomplished, and most would agree that taylor is one of the nicest kindest guys to come along in boxing in a long time, so is pavlik but maybe kelly should take a closer look at the way JT's been treated and get a little meaner with everyone, afterall, taylor went the nice guy route and has received nothing but troubles and turmoil from the media and the fans because of it, I feel sorry for the guy, hes in a no win situation. Just remember, JT has always been respectful and soft spoken just like pavlik, I personally dont see how JT keeps his cool so much with everyone badgering him all the time, probabaly becasue he is a nice guy and they take advantage because they know his nature allows them to push and prod at him beyond the norm. Its a shame our society finally gets a champ who isnt or hasnt been in jail, doesnt do drugs or neglect his family, respects the hard working people who buy the tickets because he knows what it feels like to have nothing............yet the fans the media and society in general want to crucify the guy for being a standup hard working honest man. You guys want the truth, HBO promotes JT becasue of the way he is, becasue of the good things I mentioned, Since lennox Lewis, they've not had much to hang their hats on, most of them have been thugs that cant stay out of trouble, so there you have it, he is champ, he worked for it, he did not dodge anyone and even took the winky fight instead of an easier fight, hes respectful to everyone and all folks want to do is discredit his rep and stomp him in the ground, I tell ya, when you stop and think about the way JT gets treated by most its really shamefull. If they ever treat kelly pavlik that way it will be shamefull once more, neither one of them deserve to go thru that kind of crap :(
I couldn't careless if he is a nice guy or not this isn't popularity contest this is boxing and i don't like his lackluster performances or his boring fights or his gift decisions Middleweight division has been boring for ages with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor i hope Pavlik wins so we can see some exciting fights again in Middleweight division.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
I'm a little torn when it comes to Taylor. There is no question he is extremely talented and has a lot of potential. He started off his career on a near perfect note...utilizing his outstanding jab and athleticism. He then fought against two of the toughest and craftiest boxers in Hopkins and Wright. Those fights...whether you think he won/lost/drew...where very close. I cannot overstate the fact that it is damn near impossible to "look good" against fighters like Hopkins and Wright...not to mention Spinks. In these fights Taylor has lost his original style and comfort level. He now seems like a fighter trying figure himself out in the ring. This is particularly frustrating considering he has all the tools...athleticism, smarts, and great skill (especially his jab). He needs this fight against Pavlik...against a fighter who will pressure him and force him to respond. He needs to show some fire and just let go. So right now i'm reserving judgment on Taylor. I can understand him not looking spectacular against his recent opponents. But he should have no excuses in his upcoming fight. He needs to step up...win, lose or draw...and show a spark.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Outstanding observation by William Dettloff (Ring Magazine). I see the same outcome
It is accepted as truth that Taylor has been unraveling at a steady clip since his consecutive wins over Bernard Hopkins, the first of which initiated this difficult and unhappy tenure as the world’s top 160-pound fighter. Indeed, his stock has dropped with every appearance since, despite the existence of an unpopular truth: He has yet to lose in the ring. But even his most loyal supporters concede that the “easier” the opponent is supposed to be—and make no mistake, Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks were intended to be easy fights—the worse Taylor has looked.
Kelly Pavlik, by contrast, looked superb in beating down and stopping Edison Miranda last time out, and looked about as good mugging the tough but coarse Jose Luis Zertuche before that. So far as any of us can tell, he’s never looked as bad against anyone as Taylor did stumbling after Spinks or while getting backed up by the smaller, apparently under-powered Ouma. It is for this reason that although the wise guys see this as a pick-’em fight, many fans see Pavlik as a clear favorite.
It’s easy to see why people are picking Pavlik: Taylor has under-performed in his most recent fights, against 154-pounders no less, while Pavlik has emerged as a big, strong, power-hitting middleweight. But it’s not that simple. Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips) and Taylor whipped him clearly, if unspectacularly. And Spinks will make a lot more guys look awful before he’s done. It’s what he does. Zertuche and Miranda, on the other hand, were sitting ducks for Pavlik’s ballsy, heavy-handed attack. Tough as they were, he couldn’t have asked for more willing targets.
The best thing to do for a fighter who’s having an identity crisis is to put him in with a well-regarded opponent whom he can hit hard and hit often. That tends to clean things up nicely. Taylor will hit Pavlik hard and he will hit him often. He’ll take some in return too, and that’s all right. At the end he’ll know, either way, who he is, and we will too. My pick: Taylor by decision or late stoppage.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Outstanding observation by William Dettloff (Ring Magazine). I see the same outcome
It is accepted as truth that Taylor has been unraveling at a steady clip since his consecutive wins over Bernard Hopkins, the first of which initiated this difficult and unhappy tenure as the world’s top 160-pound fighter. Indeed, his stock has dropped with every appearance since, despite the existence of an unpopular truth: He has yet to lose in the ring. But even his most loyal supporters concede that the “easier” the opponent is supposed to be—and make no mistake, Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks were intended to be easy fights—the worse Taylor has looked.
Kelly Pavlik, by contrast, looked superb in beating down and stopping Edison Miranda last time out, and looked about as good mugging the tough but coarse Jose Luis Zertuche before that. So far as any of us can tell, he’s never looked as bad against anyone as Taylor did stumbling after Spinks or while getting backed up by the smaller, apparently under-powered Ouma. It is for this reason that although the wise guys see this as a pick-’em fight, many fans see Pavlik as a clear favorite.
It’s easy to see why people are picking Pavlik: Taylor has under-performed in his most recent fights, against 154-pounders no less, while Pavlik has emerged as a big, strong, power-hitting middleweight. But it’s not that simple. Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips) and Taylor whipped him clearly, if unspectacularly. And Spinks will make a lot more guys look awful before he’s done. It’s what he does. Zertuche and Miranda, on the other hand, were sitting ducks for Pavlik’s ballsy, heavy-handed attack. Tough as they were, he couldn’t have asked for more willing targets.
The best thing to do for a fighter who’s having an identity crisis is to put him in with a well-regarded opponent whom he can hit hard and hit often. That tends to clean things up nicely. Taylor will hit Pavlik hard and he will hit him often. He’ll take some in return too, and that’s all right. At the end he’ll know, either way, who he is, and we will too. My pick: Taylor by decision or late stoppage.
Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips)
Lets ask Agustin Silva aswelli seem to remember Silva dropped Ouma 3 times in the first round and winning in the first round aswell.
Or lets ask Roman Karmazin who decked Ouma twice and won a decision alot easier than what Taylor managed to do.
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Outstanding observation by William Dettloff (Ring Magazine). I see the same outcome
It is accepted as truth that Taylor has been unraveling at a steady clip since his consecutive wins over Bernard Hopkins, the first of which initiated this difficult and unhappy tenure as the world’s top 160-pound fighter. Indeed, his stock has dropped with every appearance since, despite the existence of an unpopular truth: He has yet to lose in the ring. But even his most loyal supporters concede that the “easier” the opponent is supposed to be—and make no mistake, Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks were intended to be easy fights—the worse Taylor has looked.
Kelly Pavlik, by contrast, looked superb in beating down and stopping Edison Miranda last time out, and looked about as good mugging the tough but coarse Jose Luis Zertuche before that. So far as any of us can tell, he’s never looked as bad against anyone as Taylor did stumbling after Spinks or while getting backed up by the smaller, apparently under-powered Ouma. It is for this reason that although the wise guys see this as a pick-’em fight, many fans see Pavlik as a clear favorite.
It’s easy to see why people are picking Pavlik: Taylor has under-performed in his most recent fights, against 154-pounders no less, while Pavlik has emerged as a big, strong, power-hitting middleweight. But it’s not that simple. Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips) and Taylor whipped him clearly, if unspectacularly. And Spinks will make a lot more guys look awful before he’s done. It’s what he does. Zertuche and Miranda, on the other hand, were sitting ducks for Pavlik’s ballsy, heavy-handed attack. Tough as they were, he couldn’t have asked for more willing targets.
The best thing to do for a fighter who’s having an identity crisis is to put him in with a well-regarded opponent whom he can hit hard and hit often. That tends to clean things up nicely. Taylor will hit Pavlik hard and he will hit him often. He’ll take some in return too, and that’s all right. At the end he’ll know, either way, who he is, and we will too. My pick: Taylor by decision or late stoppage.
Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips)
Lets ask Agustin Silva aswell i seem to remember Silva dropped Ouma 3 times in the first round and winning in the first round aswell.
Or lets ask Roman Karmazin who decked Ouma and won a decision alot easier than what Taylor managed to do.
The Silva fight was in 1999. Ouma's 10th pro fight. Ouma has clearly improved since than. You know better than to hold that against him. As for Karmazin? I don't buy Ouma's excuse that he was sick. That's pretty lame. But Karmazin is a good fighter. And Ouma showed some heart in getting up from the 2 knock downs and finishing the fight. Ouma is a good fighter
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Re: Are people giving Taylor too much flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Outstanding observation by William Dettloff (Ring Magazine). I see the same outcome
It is accepted as truth that Taylor has been unraveling at a steady clip since his consecutive wins over Bernard Hopkins, the first of which initiated this difficult and unhappy tenure as the world’s top 160-pound fighter. Indeed, his stock has dropped with every appearance since, despite the existence of an unpopular truth: He has yet to lose in the ring. But even his most loyal supporters concede that the “easier” the opponent is supposed to be—and make no mistake, Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks were intended to be easy fights—the worse Taylor has looked.
Kelly Pavlik, by contrast, looked superb in beating down and stopping Edison Miranda last time out, and looked about as good mugging the tough but coarse Jose Luis Zertuche before that. So far as any of us can tell, he’s never looked as bad against anyone as Taylor did stumbling after Spinks or while getting backed up by the smaller, apparently under-powered Ouma. It is for this reason that although the wise guys see this as a pick-’em fight, many fans see Pavlik as a clear favorite.
It’s easy to see why people are picking Pavlik: Taylor has under-performed in his most recent fights, against 154-pounders no less, while Pavlik has emerged as a big, strong, power-hitting middleweight. But it’s not that simple. Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips) and Taylor whipped him clearly, if unspectacularly. And Spinks will make a lot more guys look awful before he’s done. It’s what he does. Zertuche and Miranda, on the other hand, were sitting ducks for Pavlik’s ballsy, heavy-handed attack. Tough as they were, he couldn’t have asked for more willing targets.
The best thing to do for a fighter who’s having an identity crisis is to put him in with a well-regarded opponent whom he can hit hard and hit often. That tends to clean things up nicely. Taylor will hit Pavlik hard and he will hit him often. He’ll take some in return too, and that’s all right. At the end he’ll know, either way, who he is, and we will too. My pick: Taylor by decision or late stoppage.
Ouma is an easy fight for no one (ask Verno Phillips)
Lets ask Agustin Silva aswell i seem to remember Silva dropped Ouma 3 times in the first round and winning in the first round aswell.
Or lets ask Roman Karmazin who decked Ouma and won a decision alot easier than what Taylor managed to do.
The Silva fight was in 1999. Ouma's 10th pro fight. Ouma has clearly improved since than. You know better than to hold that against him. As for Karmazin? I don't buy Ouma's excuse that he was sick. That's pretty lame. But Karmazin is a good fighter. And Ouma showed some heart in getting up from the 2 knock downs and finishing the fight. Ouma is a good fighter
Im not holding it against him i just loved how that article said Ouma is not an easy fight for anyone and compared a fight with a goodish fighter like Phillips i was just pointing out how Silva finished him off in the first round and how Roman Karmazin outpointed Ouma alot easier than what Taylor managed to do and plus Ouma had never fought at Middleweight and managed to bully Taylor and plus he was outpointed by Roman Karmazin at his more comfortable fighting weight if Ouma managed to bully Taylor and give him a run for his money can you imagine what Pavlik will do ??
