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People have such different views on Lewis and does he belong and i say he belongs in the top ten my list being
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Larry Holmes
3. Joe Louis
4. George Foreman
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. Joe Frazier
8. Mike Tyson
9. Gene Tunney
10. Rocky Marciano
Now that is were i place Lewis i would love to hear what other people think of were Lewis would be
Your list is alright,but i would have to take Sonny Liston off there. He was good, but he is not in the top ten. I would slide Lennox in that number five slot. I think Lewis could beat just about every heavy weight in history when he's at his best but i he tends to slack, but he still accomplished alot and had good quality of opposition so i would have to put him at five.
I think Sonny is just fine maybe a bit lower but that is were i put him
Don't Forget before he was beat by Ali they thought liston would be a champ for ever and i mean he was like 38 somthing year old with a drug problem by the time ali got him not saying that he would beat ali but it would of been better then the fight they had if he was younger
Liston is way too high Marciano is way too low Holmes should be at number 3 other than that good list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
No way is Tyson top 10.
Tyson was a geat champion and i admit i dont liek him but he belongs somewhere in a top ten list and Rocky was undefeated but also over raided and to me the number 2 spot is debatable between Holmes and Louis and were would you put Liston and Rocky i think is under Tunney
But i thank you both for your input it is very nice to hear someone else ideas and you are welcome to disagree with me if think i am wrong
Rocky should be top 5 Holmes and Louis is debatable your right Liston should be 10 or maybe 9 or maybe just outside the top 10 as for Tunney i think he should be at about 10 but thats my opinion anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
If you put Rocky at 5 would you put Lewis at 4 jsut to ask because i can not put Rocky over Lewis but thats just me
An thank you for your input i always like when good poster put feed back on my posts
I can't see putting Marciano over Lewis either. I have to constantly remind myself of the difference between best, and greatest in these lists... Because if your talking top 10 as in who were the best fighters.. I couldn't put Rocky in the top 10 period. He would have easily been defeated by many modern HW's imo. But that aside, he was not a greater fighter than Lennox either. undefeated sure, but Lewis also defeated every opponent he faced... And he fought much MUCH better ones than Rocky, had more longevity, overcame more in his career etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Think the ATG is a combination of what they achieved and who they beat in their careers and of course their skill level as well
Mine looks like this
Ali
Holmes
Louis
Foreman
Jack Johnson
Frazier
Lewis
Tunney
Holyfield
Marciano
hon. mention- Tyson, Patterson, Dempsey, Liston, Charles
i agree more with yours only difference is Louis with Holmes cause well Louis fought in a time where race was an even bigger issue than in Holmes time
Holmes/Louis/Marciano all have the same issue in that they had relatively weak HW divs to fight in and no true marquee matchups to be measured by. I give Holmes the nod over Joe simply b/c of Joe's size. I don't know how he would have handled the bigger HW's of the 70's-present.
Think that Jack Johnson was a bit to old school to rate as a all time top heavy i mean he was a champion back in the early 1900's
To me he was more of a invader to the sport of boxing and was ahead of his time not sure he was a top ten fighter though but i could be wrong because some people feel Mike is not a top ten fighter i do and i also think Tunney is as well but i could be wrong just want some thoughts on that
I know i seem like i am rambling but i am not sure that rocky should be above Liston because i find it hard to believe that he accomplished more then Liston beside the undefeated thing but it was a very weak era just to express a thought
Well that is all for me i hope i get some answer to that tomorrow i am sorry i tend to ramble and i am going to bed good night
Where does Lewis belong....
Based on absolute skill... Id put him at No.5
For Dominance... He belongs at about No.3 (Maybe 4)
Based on the strength of opposition.... No. 5 or 6
All in all id rank him between 4 & 5
For me .... and I reserve the right to change my mind ! ....
Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Plus, just to make the point, I am talking about GREAT heavyweights, about historical achievements and era dominance, not about who woud beat who if we had a time machine. The old timers were about when the sport was mainstream and they had more competition because more people boxed and they were headline newsmakers, not on the inside pages.
For example, Jesse Owens is a great sprinter, despite the fact that he would probably not qualify for the olympics now.
Name ten Heavyweights that dominated a better era than Tyson in the way he did between 86-89!!Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Not saying his era was great, but it was as good as that of
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Dempsey
Holmes
... to name a few.
An old question...... but if Tyson retired after the Spinks fight would he be top 10??
If you think "Yes", the you should think he is top 10 all time now, because we are talking PRIME
If you say "No" you are crazy!!!
Top 5 for me
Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Tyson
Then pick any from
Frazier
Lewis
Liston
Dempsey
Holyfield
Bowe
Charles
Tunney
Could have Harry Wills, James Jeffries, Jim Corbett, John L Sullivan, Jack Johnson and Sammy Langford, but I really aint seen enough of them to make a judgement
You have to consider physical advantages too. Who consistently beat better competition and bigger men. You can't rate a bigger man as great when he fought almost every fight with a significant weight advantage.
Lennox rates quite highly on my list, i really can't decide what my list would be, but (oh god im gonna. gettin slated for this,)
Because of size, skill, and strength disparities I rate him above:
Tyson,
Dempsey,
Marciano,
Louis,
Frazier,
Norton,
Tate,
Holmes,
Wlad,
The more i think about the more i realsie how much i miss him!!!!!
When the question how good was Sonny Liston, the name Marty Marshall pops into my head
I adjusted your list to show my thoughts. I think Liston was a great contender, just a lousy champ based on his dealings with underworld crimelords. I added Dempsey above Tunney based on his impact on the sport and length of title reign, instead of their head to head match up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Im sorry but i have to comment on this Tyson at number 1 ?? and Tate, Norton, Frazier, Dempsey, all higher than Holmes ?? and Wlad on the list ?? what the hell mate ??Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Big John Tate should never ever be on any top 10 list neither should Wlad.
Tunney skill to me was far better then DeDempseyut that is just my thoughts does not make it right Tunney record to seems better then Dempsey and as far as Liston goes he only lose because he had to face a prime ALI and he was 38 years old when he fought not saying Liston would beat ALI but he sure was not prime and to me Besides Louis no one before the 60's as a heavyweight should rank over 9 or 10 but yet again just a opinion
Liston's only wins that stand out is against Patterson he had no other good wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
He had few decent wins over goodish opposition like.
Zora Folley
Cleveland Williams
Chuck Wepner
That is not the record of a top 5 Heavyweight of all time is it ??
Yea you got a piont he is top 10 though still to me at least and lewis over him i will change that and i still stand by what i said about the boxers before the 60's
i haven't make a list for a while
1 ali
2 louis
3 holmes
4 marciano
5 lennox mutha fuggin lewis
6 foreman
7 jack dempsey
8 jack johnson
9 sonny liston
10 joe frazier
if holyfield win oct 13 he'll make it
7-10 really threw some names out there
I think that holyfeild is the best Crusieweight ever not sure how he ranks on my Hw list though
He does have wins over a old george, old holmes, moore, tyson twice, bowe, ruiz, and the only four time champion but he lost alot as well i rank him top 15 sounds like a good spot
I had this debate a while back. In turn it was debated a while before that too. You should start a new thread on it ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I never really could decide if he was a great heavyweight. Like youve just said, he was definately a great Cruiser but in reality his Heavyweight record is like Margarito as a fighter (only good in spots).
But come on...! theres really only about 5 TRUELY great Heavyweights but Holyfield has IMO had a better career and is a better fighter than the likes of:
Liston
Dempsey
Tunney
Tyson
Norton
Foreman & Fraizer are a little harder to discount (More so Foreman).
Hes about a 7 or 8 for me. Its his lack of dominance as a champion that lets him down.
Yeah, Foreman is a bit of a puzzle, during the frirst stage of his career he was a tank.
For me...
1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Louis
4. Foreman
5. LENNOX
I agree with 4 of thoseQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Good list!!
My Top 15 are:
- Ali
- Louis
- Holmes
- Lewis
- Johnson
- Foreman
- Marciano
- Holyfield
- Fraizer
- Tyson
- Liston
- James J Jefferies
- W. Klitschko
- Dempsey
- Tunney
- Ruiz
Carera, Sharkey, Schmelling, Walcott & Charels were nowhere near dominant enough. If not good enough.
While Fitsimons & Corbet just dont do it for me.
By the time Klitschko retires, i predict i'll end up ranking him just above Liston. He'd have to do something special to break into the top 10 though.