The coveted return of Wacko's Drunken Round by Round Taylor vs Pavlik!!!

After a long hiatus Wacko’s Drunken Round by Round is back.

There’s no poll for this one & probably no room for discussion, or atleast not much need for it, considering that we have an official poll already up & plenty of pages bearing much heated debate…but I’m always one for rehashing old shat…ya’ll know that by now.

If you blindly missed it…here’s the link : http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...?topic=50010.0

Anywho…once again it’s on.

It’s been quite some time since many American boxing fans have been excited about a match up at 160lbs…especially one centering on our current “Undisputed Middleweight Champion” Jermain “Bad Intentions” Taylor…but again…here we are…scratching our collective heads wondering just how when & where are we going to see these mythical “Bad Intentions”?

Yeah…all that current “Undisputed Middleweight Champion” malarkey was as hard for me to say as it probably was for some of you to hear…but what’s done is done & forward we go.

Saturday, September the 29th, 2007 Ole’ Wacko will be couch side with laptop in tow to bring you, my fellow saddites, that same ole’ boozed up sticky fingered coverage that you’d all become so accustomed to. HBO’s cooked up another night of exciting & intriguing matches coming atcha live all the way across the pond from Atlantic City’s Boardwalk Hall with World Championship Boxing cranking up around 10:15 p.m.


The main event will feature the return of the middleweight divisions two most compelling figures…the fact that they‘re both undefeated fighters just sweetens the honey in the pot…no offense Jermain.

On the one hand…we have the heavily scrutinize Middleweight Champ & Little Rock, Arkansas native Jermain Taylor (27 wins, 1 draw, & 17 ko’s) & the other is Youngstown, Ohio fan favorite & hopeful Kelly Pavlik (31 wins with 28 ko’s) as they battle for dominance in what many of us are hoping is going to be 12 round all & all out championship war!

One can only hope…

Now…depending on how you look at things, Jermain Taylor is coming into this bout with a bit of an edge…depending on how you look at it. I’ve read the majority of our “Official Poll” & many seem to believe that Taylor will have the upper hand based on his boxing abilities alone & that Pavlik can ride only so high with his knockout win over Miranda.

While that is a…logical way of looking at the overall situation & match up…I disagree.

Kind of.

Here’s the thing, while many writers & Taylor fans argue that Jermain has successfully defended his middleweight crown against superior fighters like Bernard Hopkins & Ronald “Winky” Wright, I will not be one of those in Taylor‘s corner. While I was a rabid supporter of Taylor back in the day…those days are long gone for me. Personally, I just don’t believe that Taylor is worthy nor has he upheld the mantle that he was handed in his first 2005 “win” over Bernard Hopkins…to compound that point, I also don’t feel that he earned a draw against Wright…and then to add insult to injury…he looked horrible against Spinks & underperformed against Ouma.

While all of that sounds harsh…I’d urge you to look back on some of our former middleweight champs & compare Taylor to them. Don’t try racking your brain by matching apples to apples because you’ll come up with a half full bucket…that being my main argument with Taylor’s status…the kid just don’t add up. He started off like gang busters & was a force to be reckoned with with Pat Burns in his corner, but it seems to me that when he brought Steward into the corner his feet left the ground as HBO’s rising star & he’s been plummeting ever since.

I know that most do not share this view & that might sound idiotic, but Taylor was one hell of a competitor in his younger days. He was a gutty kid & a fierce contender that knew exactly what he wanted & that the only way to get it was by putting the man across the ring from him on the seat of his pants…& that was just how got it. Now it seems that he’s more of a suit & tie poster boy that’s all S*** & giggles with little of the previous pop that used to command his performances. Anyone that has followed Taylor as I have knows that he‘s capable of so much more than he’s shown over the last two to three years. The kid could reach greatness if he would only perform.

He‘s got more athletic ability & boxing savy than most of the top 10 contenders at 160 or 168lbs. Boxing fans will know & acknowledge that that’s a broad statement when you factor in names like Kessler, Wright, Sturm, Mundine, Pavlik, Abraham, Calzaghe, & Froch…but if Taylor could renew his drive, a win over those names might not be such a long shot…but as I said earlier…those days are done for me.

Even with a win over Pavlik. Sound odd? Let’s go on then.

Who is Kelly Pavlik? I mean really. Most fans didn’t even know his face prior to the domination of Miranda…& just who the hell was Edison Miranda? Nothing more than a heavy handed one dimensional brute, right? So what does that make Pavlik?

It’s questions like that that lead to some of our best arguments on this forum…so believe you me when I say that if you don’t know who Pavlik is or you hadn’t seen him fight until the Miranda fight…you need to do your research.

Let’s get into just who & what Pavlik is.

I’d like to start by reminding you fellars about an article that I posted on the front board a couple of years back about all of the middleweight contenders & champs…I believe it’s still up. Anywho, when I mentioned Pavlik’s name, several had a good chuckle over that & even more went away scratching there collective noggins. Kelly Pavlik has been in the wings waiting for quite some time. He’s had a few injuries here & there & then a few high profile matches that were made & then scuttled due to bigger names matching with bigger names. Many fight fans had either never seen him or just skipped the under cards of the big bouts. Pavlik was destined to toil in obscurity…that is until HBO featured Pavlik in an under card bout against Harris in 2005. Pavlik destroyed him in two rounds by standard form.

Oddly enough, Pavik fell off of the network’s radar for a bit. Prior to that win over Harris, Pavlik had knocked out all but three or four of his opponents, to my knowledge. Not too shabby. Pavlik would then go on to face middleweight southpaw gate keeper Bronco McKart in 2006 & he impressively blasted him out in six rounds.

It was all up hill from then. Pavlik was ranked as the number two contender by the WBC & WBO. He would go on to slaughter a few more rank opponents & then breeze back to HBO for another devastating win via knockout against Jose Luis Zertuche. In eight brutal rounds Pavlik battered him from post to post once again garnering as many fans & more praise as our current belt holder Jermain Taylor.

Pavlik had arrived…again.

Four months later he would be back on HBO in what many felt would be a no hoper against 160lb danger man Edison Miranda.

Across the globe fans not in the know were on the edge of their collective seats with their jaws resting comfortably on the floor as Pavlik outboxed & then precisely destroyed Miranda in seven rounds. After the match ended most fans & writers came down with a bad case of what Wacko has affectionately dubbed BFFF (Boxing Fan Fickle Fever) & wrote Miranda off after the fact.

Prior to the Pavlik bout, fans world wide had deemed Miranda the next big thing…a bit one dimensional…but the next big thing all the same. The minute Pavlik dropped him he became unworthy after the fact. It needs to be respectfully noted that taking out Miranda (no matter what any one critic thinks) was a huge break for Pavlik & a great accomplishment for any rising contender…but Pavlik is much much more than that & has been for quite sometime.

He’s about to have a shot at proving that fact against, arguably, the best of the best at 160lbs.

While I do believe that Taylor is the better boxer of the two, I’m still going to have to favor Pavlik.

Why Wacko? Why would you do the opposite of what you believe in? Why would you favor a heavy hitter over a boxer when you know that most boxers always find a way to beat out brute strength?

Honestly…I don’t know if I believe that HBO’s in Taylor’s corner anymore. I know that this is going to sound crazy…maybe even a bit wacko…but I truly believe that Taylor’s star has lost it’s luster & HBO is looking for someone that blazes instead of barely shines.

While that my sound silly & maybe even a bit conspiracy-ish…I believe that it’s true. I think that Taylor’s had a few handed his way lately & I honestly believe that it’s hurt his reputation & HBO’s. There are a lot of fans out there that think what I’m saying…they just don’t want to say it.

If the Taylor of late shows up…Pavlik has enough to beat him. I truly believe that. I also believe that if Taylor does indeed go toe to toe with Pavlik, many will be shocked at the outcome. Taylor’s never been hit by a truly heavy handed hitter at 160lbs. Wright landed some bruising hits that rocked Taylor in their match up…& most fans know that Wright is not known for hurting you with just one shot. Back track to the first Hopkins bout & watch rounds seven through twelve…Hopkins hammered Taylor twice in the ninth & once in the tenth to many a shocked fan’s surprise. Taylor didn’t respond to it as well as one would have thought.

As always with boxing it’s the “IF’s” that set the outcome.

THE BIG IF’s!

IF : the Jermain of late does indeed show up…I would look for Pavlik to drop him & probably stop him by the 8th or 9th round due to the fact that Taylor now fights like an aging prize fighter on the slide.

IF : Pavlik comes in hungry & confident…I’d look for an early stoppage.

IF : Taylor has had enough of the criticism & the thoughts of facing a worthy opponent spark him enough to come in focused & fighting then…Pavlik’s fwocked. The fans will be blessed though as we’ll all have a hell of a fight before us & Pavlik will have one tuff customer on his hands. It’ll be a great night for those not in the ring. I’d look for Pavlik to possibly take a hiding…but I’d be surprised if Taylor stops him.

IF : Jermain shows up half assed…he’ll run the distance & we’ll have another unworthy “gimmee” on our hands. It’ll be a shame if Pavlik get’s robbed.

All that being said…I encourage you once again to join me…live & direct from the couch as we cover one of the most anticipated bouts of recent middleweight history.

Break out the chips & salsa, toss aside that remote, crack open the caps, & pour up your beverage of choice as we settle in for some couch coverage…it’s time for yet another installment of Wacko’s Drunken Round by Round.

As always…I say to thee…cheers…& koneecheewah bitches.

Welcome back O0

Nice one Wacko...Il have Jermaine Taylor by a TKO in Rd.10.
Taylor looking strong in training and physically seems to be more imposing and he's had good sparring partners.

The humble steel workers son is going to kick Taylor's ass. Go Pavlik!

Glad to see you are back man. This should be a great great fight. I'm cheering for Kelly in this one,I think the JT camp has been far too cocky and arrogant and I think JT needs a beating to be humbled again.

OHHHHH it's good to be back with some bigtime boxing on this weekend, I've missed it! Luckily we're catered for with boxing every weekend till October 20th (UFC 77 very good promotion IMO by the boxing powers) and the shit just gets even better EVERY WEEKEND IS CATERED FOR TILL DEC 8TH! Feast your eyes on this for a list.

Saturday 29th September - Taylor v Pavlik

October 6th - Pacquaio v Barrera

October 13th - Juan Diaz v Julio Diaz (HBO) + Holyfield v Ibragimov (PPV)

October 20th - UFC 77 (For those that dig it)

October 27th - Byrd v Povetkin + Sebastian Sylvester v SImone Rotolo on German TV + Steve Molitor v 3K Battery (Might be on FSN)

Friday Nov 2nd - Eddie Chambers v Calvin Brock (SHO) + Carl Froch v Robin Reid (Sky Sports)

Saturday November 3rd - Joe Calzaghe v Mikkel Kessler (HBO)

November 10th - Haye v Mormeck + Mosley v Cotto

November 17th - Guzman v Soto + UFC 78

Friday November 23rd - Mayorga v Vargas.

December 1st - Tarver v Danny Green, Vernon Forrest v Michele Piccirilo, Celestino Caballero v TBA, Jorge Arce v TBA + JCC jr v Ray Sanchez.

December 8th - Floyd Mayweather v Ricky Hatton.



That's 11 consecutive weeks of good or great fights on TV! (With the exception of Oct 20th for non UFC fans). Lets just hope that injury bug disappears...... :-\

Its all about the way Taylor approaches this fight. If he fights to box and is fully focused and keeps away from Kellys big punches i think he can box his way to a 12 round decision. But if he comes into the fight trading and really wanting to get caught up with kelly i just think kellys is too much for any man at 160, that power would catch up with him soon enough and stop taylor.

But taylors not stupid and i dont think kelly is either so both will be expecting something differnt. I just think over recent performances i will be favouring kelly but i just feel that Jermain just hasnt had a lot of motivation and he needs something like this showdown to show us what he is truely made of.

It could go either way, a lot is on the table here. A true case of who wants it more. If Jermain is clever im thinking a very hard faught UD here. But the hunger of kelly is amazing and he could stop him with those hard blows.






I just have to go with Jermain UD hes been the champ and hes baet the champ and i think he can do it again, gona be close and hes going to have to show everyone why he is the number one.

am goning for Taylor hard won points decision ;D welcome back Wacko missed you :-*

Pavlik by tko.

Taylor by TKO or UD. I hope Pavlik wins, but Taylor has too much speed, too much experience, and too much skill for Pavlik IMO. There seems to be a large discrepancy in speed between the two, both hand and foot, and I think that, combined with effective counter-punching and the use of his jab, will win this fight for Taylor.
CC for the RBR Wacko, its good to see ya back at it. Superheavyrhun did a great job of holding down the RBR for while you were away, so props to him for that.

Taylor has my respect, for his quality of opposition, if nothing else. However, I think he's developed some alarmingly bad habits in his last few fights - not listening to his trainer among them - and I doubt he's gonna have them corrected by this fight.

Taylor on top of his game decisions Pavlik, IMO, but I don't think that's the JT showing up this weekend.

Pavlik TKO late rounds. Go Kelly!!

And CC for the DRBR - it's like coming home ;D

The Ghost by KO round 8. He really needs to change his nickname, he's very hittable. Maybe they call him Ghost because he is as pale as a ghost. Taylor will try to come forward but after catching a few Pavlik bombs hes gonna be on his backfoot for the rest of the fight, Kelly will stalk him down and then knock him down. Steward may even have to stop it... Oh btw welcome back. You have a life or something?

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Pavlik by tko.

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I reckon, probably mid to late.

Looking for Pavlik to TKO Jermain by later rounds. Taylor has been taking his training seriously this time around (or so it would appear by the recent HBO special) so I think he'll come in fighting just how he's training. There will be a lot of jabs and movement so he will look impressive in the beginning, perhaps even taking the first 4 rounds easily. As the fight goes on , I look for him to get tired and sloppy, reverting back to the recent bad habit of laying on the ropes and this will spell the the end for him.

Taylor by stoppage. Around the 8th or 9th round

OMG!!!!!!

WACKOF is back with his legendary DRBR and right on time. with the hottest following months for boxing.

for this weekends fight I'm going with J.T I just don't think pavlik has an idea what kind of fight it will be against a young very experience champion in J.T. (although J.T has look bad recently, this fight I believe will bring the "bad intention" out of J.T)

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

OMG!!!!!! WACKOF is back with his legendary DRBR and right on time. with the hottest following months for boxing.

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:coolclick: Jules. Thanks for the love.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

for this weekends fight I'm going with J.T I just don't think pavlik has an idea what kind of fight it will be against a young very experience champion in J.T. (although J.T has look bad recently, this fight I believe will bring the "bad intention" out of J.T)

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I want to see Pavlik pull this one out. I truly think that it'd be better for the game if he did. Taylor's just too much of a puppy dog now & I think that he might have let that "big dawg" mouth (you know...the DAWG IN ME that he was barkin bout @ the presser?) over load that "puppy dog" ass with Pavlik.

A focused & confident Taylor wins...but how confident will he be once Pavli actually negates his jab & cracks him.

Many underrate Pavlik due to lack of exposure & many overratte him on destroying Miranda but there is a happy medium & as I have stated in the past...it's there & I have seen it. There's more to Pavlik than meets the eye...he's just not been showcased enough.

If Taylor comes out like the Jermain of old & wins...much respect to him. I'll be disappointed & I don't want Pavlik to lose...but if it does bring out our true champion in Taylor...then that works too.

Pavlik by a hard fought bout or late stoppage...least that's what I'm hopin & prayin for.

Also...I'd like to thank everyone that either is or will be a part of this Drunken Round by Round.

Wacko's had a bit of a ruff year & it's good to be back home here with my people. That being said...I may be a bit rusty & my drunken keystrokes may be a bit slower than usual...but this will go off & we shall have that same ole' piss drunk coverage that you had all grwon accustomed to seeing every Friday & Saturday night.

I'm back up in the muh-fwocker bitches!

As par for the course...everyone will recieve his or her participatory Wacko's Drunken Round by Round :coolclick: ...so to those on board...you suckuhz been served!

:coolclick: 's & cheers & koneecheewah, bitches. Wacko luh yuh. ;D

Tam's brought up soom good stuff here that no one's really elaborated on here...so let me get up in it like a whore on fifth skreet!

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Its all about the way Taylor approaches this fight.

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While I do agree...I also don't.

Taylor's seemingly approaching this fight as redemption...per the media, but honestly, Taylor's appearance & demeanor hasn't taken an about face...not like it should

Pavlik is hungry, young, & strong. He can box...that's a proven fact & it's also a biggie that Pavlik can take a lickin & keep on tickin. Taylor's a buckler. I have all of Taylor's career on VHS except for a handful of his first fights. I have watched him grow tremendously under Pat Burns...under Manny Steward? He's forgotten his jab & learned how to cover up & hide on the ropes.

Manny might be the problem here. I know that's hard to imagine seeing as how everyone see's Manny as GOD & COUNTRY over here in the U.S., but that's my take on it.

Taylor can approach anyway that he wants...but if he doesn't come out blazing like he used to against the likes of Ortiz, Garcia, Bunema, & Eduord...just ignore the fact that he was a "taylor made" sparring partner for the Hopkins set up.

Taylor has the potential...but will he tap it?

I always use the cop out phrase of "It depends on what Taylor shows up" & while that is true...the cold hard facts are Taylor is Taylor. Does he still have the fire to win & can he do so against a hard case like Pavlik?

If it's a fair & square fight...I gotta say NO.

But I believe that HBO will get sticky fingered with thiis one.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

If he fights to box and is fully focused and keeps away from Kellys big punches i think he can box his way to a 12 round decision. But if he comes into the fight trading and really wanting to get caught up with kelly i just think kellys is too much for any man at 160, that power would catch up with him soon enough and stop taylor.

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True...but Pavlik can box too & he can bang. If he catches Taylor once & starts backin him up...Jermain's fwocked.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

But taylors not stupid and i dont think kelly is either so both will be expecting something differnt. I just think over recent performances i will be favouring kelly but i just feel that Jermain just hasnt had a lot of motivation and he needs something like this showdown to show us what he is truely made of.

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Agreed on all fronts.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

It could go either way, a lot is on the table here. A true case of who wants it more. If Jermain is clever im thinking a very hard faught UD here. But the hunger of kelly is amazing and he could stop him with those hard blows.

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Well stated again.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

I just have to go with Jermain UD hes been the champ and hes baet the champ and i think he can do it again, gona be close and hes going to have to show everyone why he is the number one.

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That is the logical choice because as I have always said...HBO is Winnie the Pooh & Taylor is there littel honeypot...but the way JT got his status was weak & while he is on top of the pile...I will never consider him #1. Let him handle Pavlik (whom I have always said was the dangerman...him & Miranda & you see what Miranda got!) & then I'll start to respect Jermain once again as I did sooooooooo many years ago.

Nice to see you back wacko CC. You give a great build up to the fight at the start of these threads, you're an educated ftrue fan of the game.

Taylor by KO, I'm not giving an argument for it, I just want it to happen.

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Originally Posted by 'Big' Dan McCarthy

OHHHHH it's good to be back with some bigtime boxing on this weekend, I've missed it! Luckily we're catered for with boxing every weekend till October 20th (UFC 77 very good promotion IMO by the boxing powers) and the S*** just gets even better EVERY WEEKEND IS CATERED FOR TILL DEC 8TH! Feast your eyes on this for a list.

Saturday 29th September - Taylor v Pavlik

October 6th - Pacquaio v Barrera

October 13th - Juan Diaz v Julio Diaz (HBO) + Holyfield v Ibragimov (PPV)

October 20th - UFC 77 (For those that dig it)

October 27th - Byrd v Povetkin + Sebastian Sylvester v SImone Rotolo on German TV + Steve Molitor v 3K Battery (Might be on FSN)

Friday Nov 2nd - Eddie Chambers v Calvin Brock (SHO) + Carl Froch v Robin Reid (Sky Sports)

Saturday November 3rd - Joe Calzaghe v Mikkel Kessler (HBO)

November 10th - Haye v Mormeck + Mosley v Cotto

November 17th - Guzman v Soto + UFC 78

Friday November 23rd - Mayorga v Vargas.

December 1st - Tarver v Danny Green, Vernon Forrest v Michele Piccirilo, Celestino Caballero v TBA, Jorge Arce v TBA + JCC jr v Ray Sanchez.

December 8th - Floyd Mayweather v Ricky Hatton.



That's 11 consecutive weeks of good or great fights on TV! (With the exception of Oct 20th for non UFC fans). Lets just hope that injury bug disappears...... :-\

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I drooled, I actually fucking drooled on my desk reading that list.

Yo Big Dan, is rampage fightin at the next UFC?

I'm not jumping ship, i jus think Rampage is cool :-[

:coolclick: Sir Wack A Lot and welcoming back the DRBR with open arms ;)

Taylor 90 day free trial is up and were returting his under performing azz with the reciept for a full refund at 160.

Pavlik is young, hungry, determined with wrecking balls in his fists and raw iron in his chin, he will grind Taylor down to a 8th round stoppage... Taylor will be better suited for 168-175 I personally feel like his body is outgrowing the weight and more than likely is adversely effecting his performance

I will be very surprised if Pavlik wins this. I'm not rooting for one guy or the other, so I will enjoy no matter what happens.

I think Pavlik will try to keep Taylor backing up to neutralize some of taylor's weapons like he did against Miranda. But I dont think it will work.

They way I see it is there is a chance that Taylor could dominate Pavlik the whole fight, but no way Pavlik can dominate Taylor the whole fight. If things get bad for Taylor he can just stick to the outside and use his jab.

I dont think JT has the confidence to KO Pavlik, so I say Taylor wins UD.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Yo Big Dan, is rampage fightin at the next UFC?

I'm not jumping ship, i jus think Rampage is cool :-[

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Rampage faught at UFC 75 in London a few weeks ago, he probably will fight again early 2008.

cc Wacko!!!!!! Love the DRbR's :drunks:

Havent been around for a while but am very interested in this fight. This fight will determine how Taylor goes in the time capsule as MW champion. Taylor has lost a lot of his luster since fighting Bhop and Winky. I think that Pavlik is really going to test him, I favor Pavlik in this one by late (T)KO or close decision.

The other fight I am real interested in is Berto/Estrada. Estrada could give him one heck of a fight but then again Berto might just dominate him. I think that Estrada puts up a good fight for a few rounds before Berto finishes the job in the middle rounds.

If Taylor can stay off those ropes then he can win, out if Winky Wright can put him on them then I think Kelly Pavlik will too, Pavlik just seems to have that aura around him, he looks like he's ready to go out there and beat the world. He's my pick.

Taylor by decision.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

Nice to see you back wacko CC. You give a great build up to the fight at the start of these threads, you're an educated ftrue fan of the game.

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[quote=Bomp ]:coolclick: right back daddyo. What can I say, babe? I'm a lover of the game & vast majority of it's players.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

Taylor by KO, I'm not giving an argument for it, I just want it to happen. I think Kelly will throw so many accurate shots that JT won't be able to line up anything other than that weak ass right hook.

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He couldnt stop Ouma or Spinks...granted there were smaller & slicker...but Pavlik has a chin & he will stand there & let it be tested just to make a point.

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

Taylor has lost a lot of his luster since fighting Bhop and Winky.

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Taylor lost his luster while fighting them two.

Disappointingly, Hopkins didn't shine either, at least not early enough / long enough, during his fights with Taylor.

Still ... Taylor didn't look so shiny to me.

Read the whole post, good stuff Wacko but I disagree with most of it.

I personally feel that Taylor has been a bit overscrutinized. The performance versus Spinks was deplorable but Spinks ran away. And I usually like Spinks but Spinks came to eak out a possible decision and make Taylor look bad. That's the way I look at it anyways.

His second win over Hopkins was legit and the first was razor thin and half the people on the internet only scored it for Hopkins in hindsight. It was not a robbery by any stretch of the imagination. And NOBODY is going to look good against Hopkins as long as he is in the ring.

The fight versus Wright, it was exciting. I thought he lost by 2 rounds and really don't buy the BS that Taylor lost the fight for himself, I actually see it the other way around. But that's another issue. Winky was the number 2 pound for pound fighter in the world and Jermain Taylor put on a respectable showing. He did twice the number that Hopkins did when Hopkins got a decision. And I have a whole winery of sour grapes for that but that's for another day.

As for Pavlik being overrated. Well he doesn't have the resume but nobody fights P4P guys on their way to the title. You do it when you defend. Before he got his title shot, Taylor had only beaten Cuevas, an old Joppy and an old Raul Marquez. Miranda was a guy they were trumping as the most ducked guy in boxing. His nickname Pantera basically described what people thought he was. Very dangerous guy who could probably come back big if he came back to 160. I mean he did batter Abraham.

As for how the fight turns out, it's pretty much a toss up. Both guys have a certain way they want to go about fighting while still having the capability of fighting the other guy's fight.

Pavlik is a guy who's all offense and his pin point punch placement serves as his defense for the most part. He leans forward a lot, always has his opponents at the end of his punches where they do the most damage and he is a beautiful combination puncher. His punch selection is way beyond his years. And of course his activity level is tremendous.

Taylor has gotten away from it a bit but he has really good footwork when he wants to and that is going to be crucial. He is going to have to control distance and the way to do that is with effective footwork. Then of course is the issue of weathering the Pavlik storm and getting off shots of his own. Taylor has been put into a shell by fighters like Wright and Hopkins, he can't afford to do that here.

Taylor is accurate though and you can catch Pavlik between punches so that is what his big advantage in this one is.

In the end, I think Pavlik is going to come away with a close decision after a very good fight. No doubt there are fireworks, I think it's pretty much a sure bet that this one is going to be explosive. Taylor has been slighted for a lot but not for his willingness to trade.

I just think that Pavlik is going to wear down Taylor to much and pull away at the end.

I cant believe im missin this fight.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Tam's brought up soom good stuff here that no one's really elaborated on here...so let me get up in it like a whore on fifth skreet!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Its all about the way Taylor approaches this fight.

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While I do agree...I also don't.

Taylor's seemingly approaching this fight as redemption...per the media, but honestly, Taylor's appearance & demeanor hasn't taken an about face...not like it should

Pavlik is hungry, young, & strong. He can box...that's a proven fact & it's also a biggie that Pavlik can take a lickin & keep on tickin. Taylor's a buckler. I have all of Taylor's career on VHS except for a handful of his first fights. I have watched him grow tremendously under Pat Burns...under Manny Steward? He's forgotten his jab & learned how to cover up & hide on the ropes.

Manny might be the problem here. I know that's hard to imagine seeing as how everyone see's Manny as GOD & COUNTRY over here in the U.S., but that's my take on it.

Taylor can approach anyway that he wants...but if he doesn't come out blazing like he used to against the likes of Ortiz, Garcia, Bunema, & Eduord...just ignore the fact that he was a "taylor made" sparring partner for the Hopkins set up.

Taylor has the potential...but will he tap it?

I always use the cop out phrase of "It depends on what Taylor shows up" & while that is true...the cold hard facts are Taylor is Taylor. Does he still have the fire to win & can he do so against a hard case like Pavlik?

If it's a fair & square fight...I gotta say NO.

But I believe that HBO will get sticky fingered with thiis one.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

If he fights to box and is fully focused and keeps away from Kellys big punches i think he can box his way to a 12 round decision. But if he comes into the fight trading and really wanting to get caught up with kelly i just think kellys is too much for any man at 160, that power would catch up with him soon enough and stop taylor.

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True...but Pavlik can box too & he can bang. If he catches Taylor once & starts backin him up...Jermain's fwocked.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

But taylors not stupid and i dont think kelly is either so both will be expecting something differnt. I just think over recent performances i will be favouring kelly but i just feel that Jermain just hasnt had a lot of motivation and he needs something like this showdown to show us what he is truely made of.

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Agreed on all fronts.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

It could go either way, a lot is on the table here. A true case of who wants it more. If Jermain is clever im thinking a very hard faught UD here. But the hunger of kelly is amazing and he could stop him with those hard blows.

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Well stated again.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

I just have to go with Jermain UD hes been the champ and hes baet the champ and i think he can do it again, gona be close and hes going to have to show everyone why he is the number one.

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That is the logical choice because as I have always said...HBO is Winnie the Pooh & Taylor is there littel honeypot...but the way JT got his status was weak & while he is on top of the pile...I will never consider him #1. Let him handle Pavlik (whom I have always said was the dangerman...him & Miranda & you see what Miranda got!) & then I'll start to respect Jermain once again as I did sooooooooo many years ago.

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CC wacko for that good posting! I just feel that Taylor needs to back up the fact that he did something that most people at that time and still now cant do... and that was beating Bearnard Hopkins. He must of thought of something masterful to be able to thjnk of something that beat him. Beating n all time great whos still the best in his devision isnt a bad accomplishment.

So i know for a fact that JT knows that Kelly is the best challenge out there for him at 160. This fight can lead on to a lot more, like JC or MK at 168. But if he doesnt win this one hes back to nothing and up for a lot of critism from his last few outings. He just seemed that the lack of good fighters had got to him and he hasnt been able to prove that he is the best at 160. But i just feel a man like Kelly although he is an outstanding fighter is going to show the best of Jermain. If he keeps his distance and trys to not get caught up with the best of kellys punches i think he can get the best of the exchanges and rack up the points.

JT can bang himself and i do believe he is a lot better boxing minded that Edison Miranda, and although kelly took his best and miranda i think could probably punch harder that JT, i just feel the greater experience with getting in with people like Bearnard hopkins and Winky Wright i can see him hurting kelly himself by opening up the gaps and laying the best punches in. I have a feeling its a lot easier to hit kelly pavlik that bearnard and winky. This could be a good factor for JT in the fight.

A truly fine piece of boxing writing, Wacko....espn.com should run that as an op-ed against Kellerman's Taylor ball-washing article.

I agree with pretty much your whole article, but I'm going to add one thing. I can't recall Taylor EVER fighting a decent opponent who is as physically large as Pavlik. This could work in either direction. I could motivate Taylor to bring out his finest boxing skills out of fear of Pavliks size and power, or it can spell doom for him if he gets into a brawl. He is so used to fighting smaller men that might not know what to do when he is outgunned. When Pavlik walks through his shots like Ouma did, Pavlik will have the reach to counter him with a flurry and the pop to make it matter, unlike Ouma or Spinks.

I don't see Taylor winning a close, robbery type fight. If Taylor wins, it's because he fights the way he used to fight, with the right gameplan. If he does that, I think the outcome will be clear. If he doesn't have the in him anymore, Pavlik will stop him.

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Originally Posted by SeanE

I can't recall Taylor EVER fighting a decent opponent who is as physically large as Pavlik.

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Hopkins...

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Originally Posted by amat

Read the whole post, good stuff Wacko but I disagree with most of it.

I personally feel that Taylor has been a bit overscrutinized. The performance versus Spinks was deplorable but Spinks ran away. And I usually like Spinks but Spinks came to eak out a possible decision and make Taylor look bad. That's the way I look at it anyways.

His second win over Hopkins was legit and the first was razor thin and half the people on the internet only scored it for Hopkins in hindsight. It was not a robbery by any stretch of the imagination. And NOBODY is going to look good against Hopkins as long as he is in the ring.

The fight versus Wright, it was exciting. I thought he lost by 2 rounds and really don't buy the BS that Taylor lost the fight for himself, I actually see it the other way around. But that's another issue. Winky was the number 2 pound for pound fighter in the world and Jermain Taylor put on a respectable showing. He did twice the number that Hopkins did when Hopkins got a decision. And I have a whole winery of sour grapes for that but that's for another day.

As for Pavlik being overrated. Well he doesn't have the resume but nobody fights P4P guys on their way to the title. You do it when you defend. Before he got his title shot, Taylor had only beaten Cuevas, an old Joppy and an old Raul Marquez. Miranda was a guy they were trumping as the most ducked guy in boxing. His nickname Pantera basically described what people thought he was. Very dangerous guy who could probably come back big if he came back to 160. I mean he did batter Abraham.

As for how the fight turns out, it's pretty much a toss up. Both guys have a certain way they want to go about fighting while still having the capability of fighting the other guy's fight.

Pavlik is a guy who's all offense and his pin point punch placement serves as his defense for the most part. He leans forward a lot, always has his opponents at the end of his punches where they do the most damage and he is a beautiful combination puncher. His punch selection is way beyond his years. And of course his activity level is tremendous.

Taylor has gotten away from it a bit but he has really good footwork when he wants to and that is going to be crucial. He is going to have to control distance and the way to do that is with effective footwork. Then of course is the issue of weathering the Pavlik storm and getting off shots of his own. Taylor has been put into a shell by fighters like Wright and Hopkins, he can't afford to do that here.

Taylor is accurate though and you can catch Pavlik between punches so that is what his big advantage in this one is.

In the end, I think Pavlik is going to come away with a close decision after a very good fight. No doubt there are fireworks, I think it's pretty much a sure bet that this one is going to be explosive. Taylor has been slighted for a lot but not for his willingness to trade.

I just think that Pavlik is going to wear down Taylor to much and pull away at the end.

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I personally feel that Taylor has been a bit overscrutinized. The performance versus Spinks was deplorable but Spinks ran away. And I usually like Spinks but Spinks came to eak out a possible decision and make Taylor look bad. That's the way I look at it anyways.

His second win over Hopkins was legit and the first was razor thin and half the people on the internet only scored it for Hopkins in hindsight. It was not a robbery by any stretch of the imagination. And NOBODY is going to look good against Hopkins as long as he is in the ring.

Spinks was still a natural Welterweight and had still never fought at Middleweight Taylor should of tried alot harder instead what does he do ?? gets make too look terrible against natural Welterweight and hopes to get a decision sorry but Taylor was lacklusture thats all there is to it.

His second win over Hopkins was legit ?? whys that ?? Hopkins threw more punches than he did in first fight and landed more plus he outlanded Taylor by 41 power shots i thought Hopkins won that fight and it was just as controversial as the first fight.

Ouma was able to bully Taylor and Ouma is a natural Lightmiddleweight and is no where near the size of Pavlik and yet again Taylor was made to look bad i think Pavlik will win by TKO late.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

After a long hiatus Wacko’s Drunken Round by Round is back.

There’s no poll for this one & probably no room for discussion, or atleast not much need for it, considering that we have an official poll already up & plenty of pages bearing much heated debate…but I’m always one for rehashing old shat…ya’ll know that by now.

If you blindly missed it…here’s the link : http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...?topic=50010.0

Anywho…once again it’s on.

It’s been quite some time since many American boxing fans have been excited about a match up at 160lbs…especially one centering on our current “Undisputed Middleweight Champion” Jermain “Bad Intentions” Taylor…but again…here we are…scratching our collective heads wondering just how when & where are we going to see these mythical “Bad Intentions”?

Yeah…all that current “Undisputed Middleweight Champion” malarkey was as hard for me to say as it probably was for some of you to hear…but what’s done is done & forward we go.

Saturday, September the 29th, 2007 Ole’ Wacko will be couch side with laptop in tow to bring you, my fellow saddites, that same ole’ boozed up sticky fingered coverage that you’d all become so accustomed to. HBO’s cooked up another night of exciting & intriguing matches coming atcha live all the way across the pond from Atlantic City’s Boardwalk Hall with World Championship Boxing cranking up around 10:15 p.m.


The main event will feature the return of the middleweight divisions two most compelling figures…the fact that they‘re both undefeated fighters just sweetens the honey in the pot…no offense Jermain.

On the one hand…we have the heavily scrutinize Middleweight Champ & Little Rock, Arkansas native Jermain Taylor (27 wins, 1 draw, & 17 ko’s) & the other is Youngstown, Ohio fan favorite & hopeful Kelly Pavlik (31 wins with 28 ko’s) as they battle for dominance in what many of us are hoping is going to be 12 round all & all out championship war!

One can only hope…

Now…depending on how you look at things, Jermain Taylor is coming into this bout with a bit of an edge…depending on how you look at it. I’ve read the majority of our “Official Poll” & many seem to believe that Taylor will have the upper hand based on his boxing abilities alone & that Pavlik can ride only so high with his knockout win over Miranda.

While that is a…logical way of looking at the overall situation & match up…I disagree.

Kind of.

Here’s the thing, while many writers & Taylor fans argue that Jermain has successfully defended his middleweight crown against superior fighters like Bernard Hopkins & Ronald “Winky” Wright, I will not be one of those in Taylor‘s corner. While I was a rabid supporter of Taylor back in the day…those days are long gone for me. Personally, I just don’t believe that Taylor is worthy nor has he upheld the mantle that he was handed in his first 2005 “win” over Bernard Hopkins…to compound that point, I also don’t feel that he earned a draw against Wright…and then to add insult to injury…he looked horrible against Spinks & underperformed against Ouma.

While all of that sounds harsh…I’d urge you to look back on some of our former middleweight champs & compare Taylor to them. Don’t try racking your brain by matching apples to apples because you’ll come up with a half full bucket…that being my main argument with Taylor’s status…the kid just don’t add up. He started off like gang busters & was a force to be reckoned with with Pat Burns in his corner, but it seems to me that when he brought Steward into the corner his feet left the ground as HBO’s rising star & he’s been plummeting ever since.

I know that most do not share this view & that might sound idiotic, but Taylor was one hell of a competitor in his younger days. He was a gutty kid & a fierce contender that knew exactly what he wanted & that the only way to get it was by putting the man across the ring from him on the seat of his pants…& that was just how got it. Now it seems that he’s more of a suit & tie poster boy that’s all S*** & giggles with little of the previous pop that used to command his performances. Anyone that has followed Taylor as I have knows that he‘s capable of so much more than he’s shown over the last two to three years. The kid could reach greatness if he would only perform.

He‘s got more athletic ability & boxing savy than most of the top 10 contenders at 160 or 168lbs. Boxing fans will know & acknowledge that that’s a broad statement when you factor in names like Kessler, Wright, Sturm, Mundine, Pavlik, Abraham, Calzaghe, & Froch…but if Taylor could renew his drive, a win over those names might not be such a long shot…but as I said earlier…those days are done for me.

Even with a win over Pavlik. Sound odd? Let’s go on then.

Who is Kelly Pavlik? I mean really. Most fans didn’t even know his face prior to the domination of Miranda…& just who the hell was Edison Miranda? Nothing more than a heavy handed one dimensional brute, right? So what does that make Pavlik?

It’s questions like that that lead to some of our best arguments on this forum…so believe you me when I say that if you don’t know who Pavlik is or you hadn’t seen him fight until the Miranda fight…you need to do your research.

Let’s get into just who & what Pavlik is.

I’d like to start by reminding you fellars about an article that I posted on the front board a couple of years back about all of the middleweight contenders & champs…I believe it’s still up. Anywho, when I mentioned Pavlik’s name, several had a good chuckle over that & even more went away scratching there collective noggins. Kelly Pavlik has been in the wings waiting for quite some time. He’s had a few injuries here & there & then a few high profile matches that were made & then scuttled due to bigger names matching with bigger names. Many fight fans had either never seen him or just skipped the under cards of the big bouts. Pavlik was destined to toil in obscurity…that is until HBO featured Pavlik in an under card bout against Harris in 2005. Pavlik destroyed him in two rounds by standard form.

Oddly enough, Pavik fell off of the network’s radar for a bit. Prior to that win over Harris, Pavlik had knocked out all but three or four of his opponents, to my knowledge. Not too shabby. Pavlik would then go on to face middleweight southpaw gate keeper Bronco McKart in 2006 & he impressively blasted him out in six rounds.

It was all up hill from then. Pavlik was ranked as the number two contender by the WBC & WBO. He would go on to slaughter a few more rank opponents & then breeze back to HBO for another devastating win via knockout against Jose Luis Zertuche. In eight brutal rounds Pavlik battered him from post to post once again garnering as many fans & more praise as our current belt holder Jermain Taylor.

Pavlik had arrived…again.

Four months later he would be back on HBO in what many felt would be a no hoper against 160lb danger man Edison Miranda.

Across the globe fans not in the know were on the edge of their collective seats with their jaws resting comfortably on the floor as Pavlik outboxed & then precisely destroyed Miranda in seven rounds. After the match ended most fans & writers came down with a bad case of what Wacko has affectionately dubbed BFFF (Boxing Fan Fickle Fever) & wrote Miranda off after the fact.

Prior to the Pavlik bout, fans world wide had deemed Miranda the next big thing…a bit one dimensional…but the next big thing all the same. The minute Pavlik dropped him he became unworthy after the fact. It needs to be respectfully noted that taking out Miranda (no matter what any one critic thinks) was a huge break for Pavlik & a great accomplishment for any rising contender…but Pavlik is much much more than that & has been for quite sometime.

He’s about to have a shot at proving that fact against, arguably, the best of the best at 160lbs.

While I do believe that Taylor is the better boxer of the two, I’m still going to have to favor Pavlik.

Why Wacko? Why would you do the opposite of what you believe in? Why would you favor a heavy hitter over a boxer when you know that most boxers always find a way to beat out brute strength?

Honestly…I don’t know if I believe that HBO’s in Taylor’s corner anymore. I know that this is going to sound crazy…maybe even a bit wacko…but I truly believe that Taylor’s star has lost it’s luster & HBO is looking for someone that blazes instead of barely shines.

While that my sound silly & maybe even a bit conspiracy-ish…I believe that it’s true. I think that Taylor’s had a few handed his way lately & I honestly believe that it’s hurt his reputation & HBO’s. There are a lot of fans out there that think what I’m saying…they just don’t want to say it.

If the Taylor of late shows up…Pavlik has enough to beat him. I truly believe that. I also believe that if Taylor does indeed go toe to toe with Pavlik, many will be shocked at the outcome. Taylor’s never been hit by a truly heavy handed hitter at 160lbs. Wright landed some bruising hits that rocked Taylor in their match up…& most fans know that Wright is not known for hurting you with just one shot. Back track to the first Hopkins bout & watch rounds seven through twelve…Hopkins hammered Taylor twice in the ninth & once in the tenth to many a shocked fan’s surprise. Taylor didn’t respond to it as well as one would have thought.

As always with boxing it’s the “IF’s” that set the outcome.

THE BIG IF’s!

IF : the Jermain of late does indeed show up…I would look for Pavlik to drop him & probably stop him by the 8th or 9th round due to the fact that Taylor now fights like an aging prize fighter on the slide.

IF : Pavlik comes in hungry & confident…I’d look for an early stoppage.

IF : Taylor has had enough of the criticism & the thoughts of facing a worthy opponent spark him enough to come in focused & fighting then…Pavlik’s fwocked. The fans will be blessed though as we’ll all have a hell of a fight before us & Pavlik will have one tuff customer on his hands. It’ll be a great night for those not in the ring. I’d look for Pavlik to possibly take a hiding…but I’d be surprised if Taylor stops him.

IF : Jermain shows up half assed…he’ll run the distance & we’ll have another unworthy “gimmee” on our hands. It’ll be a shame if Pavlik get’s robbed.

All that being said…I encourage you once again to join me…live & direct from the couch as we cover one of the most anticipated bouts of recent middleweight history.

Break out the chips & salsa, toss aside that remote, crack open the caps, & pour up your beverage of choice as we settle in for some couch coverage…it’s time for yet another installment of Wacko’s Drunken Round by Round.

As always…I say to thee…cheers…& koneecheewah bitches.

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Here’s the thing, while many writers & Taylor fans argue that Jermain has successfully defended his middleweight crown against superior fighters like Bernard Hopkins & Ronald “Winky” Wright, I will not be one of those in Taylor‘s corner. While I was a rabid supporter of Taylor back in the day…those days are long gone for me. Personally, I just don’t believe that Taylor is worthy nor has he upheld the mantle that he was handed in his first 2005 “win” over Bernard Hopkins…to compound that point, I also don’t feel that he earned a draw against Wright…and then to add insult to injury…he looked horrible against Spinks & underperformed against Ouma.

Totally agree with this statement i think he should of lost 2nd Hopkins fight and the Wright fight and i scored the Spinks fight a draw Taylor has been on a winning streak with the judges and not for a good reason either Wright busted his eye up and should of won he looked like the winner blocked alot of Taylor's punches and clearly outlanded Taylor as for Hopkins fights well funny enough Wacko i thought Taylor won the first meeting and lost the rematch i thought Taylor won 7 rounds to 5 in first fight and i had him losing rematch Hopkins started faster landed more punches and outlanded Taylor in power shots by 41 punches i thought Hopkins won the rematch for certain and i have watched it 3 times.


While all of that sounds harsh…I’d urge you to look back on some of our former middleweight champs & compare Taylor to them. Don’t try racking your brain by matching apples to apples because you’ll come up with a half full bucket…that being my main argument with Taylor’s status…the kid just don’t add up. He started off like gang busters & was a force to be reckoned with with Pat Burns in his corner, but it seems to me that when he brought Steward into the corner his feet left the ground as HBO’s rising star & he’s been plummeting ever since.

Taylor has stopped using his jab for some reason and has looked lacklusture and not really interested i hope Pavlik wins it would be good to see some excitement back in Middleweight division its been pretty boring with Hopkins as champion and now Taylor i know you like Hopkins Wacko and i loved the fight with Tito vs Hopkins and i also loved the way he used to fight in his younger days with his aggressive style i used to find him exciting to watch and i got nothing against Hopkins i just didn't enjoy most of his title fights.

He‘s got more athletic ability & boxing savy than most of the top 10 contenders at 160 or 168lbs. Boxing fans will know & acknowledge that that’s a broad statement when you factor in names like Kessler, Wright, Sturm, Mundine, Pavlik, Abraham, Calzaghe, & Froch…but if Taylor could renew his drive, a win over those names might not be such a long shot…but as I said earlier…those days are done for me.

Imo Taylor isn't beating Calzaghe or Kessler at 168 no way and Mundine would be a tough fight for Taylor aswell and i also think Sturm is very good fighter wouldn't mind seeing him vs Taylor at some point or even against Pavlik at some point.

Who is Kelly Pavlik? I mean really. Most fans didn’t even know his face prior to the domination of Miranda…& just who the hell was Edison Miranda? Nothing more than a heavy handed one dimensional brute, right? So what does that make Pavlik?

It’s questions like that that lead to some of our best arguments on this forum…so believe you me when I say that if you don’t know who Pavlik is or you hadn’t seen him fight until the Miranda fight…you need to do your research.

I see Pavlik before Miranda fight and he impressed me before the Miranda fight when he stopped Bronco McKart for first time in his career and against Jose Luis Zertuche as for Miranda he was one dimentional but he still kicked Allen Green's ass who was a highly rated prospect and gave Arthur Abraham all he could handle in a dirty affair but still and also stopped Howard Eastman for the first time in his career.


Why Wacko? Why would you do the opposite of what you believe in? Why would you favor a heavy hitter over a boxer when you know that most boxers always find a way to beat out brute strength?

Honestly…I don’t know if I believe that HBO’s in Taylor’s corner anymore. I know that this is going to sound crazy…maybe even a bit wacko…but I truly believe that Taylor’s star has lost it’s luster & HBO is looking for someone that blazes instead of barely shines.

While that my sound silly & maybe even a bit conspiracy-ish…I believe that it’s true. I think that Taylor’s had a few handed his way lately & I honestly believe that it’s hurt his reputation & HBO’s. There are a lot of fans out there that think what I’m saying…they just don’t want to say it.


I favor Taylor based on Taylor not throwing enough punches also because Taylor's stamina is suspect and a highly offensive fighter like Pavlik will definetly test Taylor's suspect stamina and also because Taylor was getting bullied by natural Lightmiddleweight Ouma who hits nowhere near as hard and is nowhere near Pavlik's size if Ouma bullied Taylor can you imagine what a wrecking machine like Pavlik will do ??

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by SeanE

I can't recall Taylor EVER fighting a decent opponent who is as physically large as Pavlik.

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Hopkins...

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No not Hopkins. Hopkins isnt 6'3..he is 6'1. Pavlik has a better reach.They both have great chins
but Pavlik has a 77" reach. Hopkins has a 74" inch reach. Pavlik has power that can probally carry him up to the cruiser weights at his size now. Pavlik also is a rarity.....He writes left handed but fights Orthodox.
Pavlik also by many critics is the hardest punching guy pound for pound in the sport.

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Originally Posted by Bulldogger

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

I can't recall Taylor EVER fighting a decent opponent who is as physically large as Pavlik.

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Hopkins...

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No not Hopkins. Hopkins isnt 6'3..he is 6'1. Pavlik has a better reach.They both have great chins
but Pavlik has a 77" reach. Hopkins has a 74" inch reach. Pavlik has power that can probally carry him up to the cruiser weights at his size now. Pavlik also is a rarity.....He writes left handed but fights Orthodox.
Pavlik also by many critics is the hardest punching guy pound for pound in the sport.

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Exactly...Pavlik is much bigger than Hopkins and he hits harder...he's not as skilled or experienced, but he has more size and reach.

MY BWOY WACK IS FIRED UP FOR THIS FIGHT!

cc wacko. great article. i'll be here thanks to you. rock on.