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where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
after Pavlik koed Taylor, where will you put Pavlik in the pound for pound list? top 15 or top 20?
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
after Pavlik koed Taylor, where will you put Pavlik in the pound for pound list? top 15 or top 20?
Top 15 or top 20 ?? no way atleast at number 7.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
honestly, me too. I would like to put him in the top ten.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
honestly, me too. I would like to put him in the top ten.
You should for 100 percent he has beaten Miranda who was very highly rated and stopped him easily and now he has stopped Jermain Taylor in only 7 rounds he should be atleast 7 imo.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
but considering that Taylor is not in the top ten, Pavlik would have to start somewhere in the ranking.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
but considering that Taylor is not in the top ten, Pavlik would have to start somewhere in the ranking.
Taylor was in the top 10 easily.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
okay then. Pavlik should be in the top ten. Hope these people who rank the boxers include Pavlik in the p4p list.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
in terms of excitment pavlik is up the with PACMAN
for me hes top 7
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
in terms of excitment pavlik is up the with PACMAN
for me hes top 7
For sure mate i said when Pavlik wins we can finally see some excitement in Middleweight division again because its been boring for quite a while when Hopkins was champion and when Taylor was champion.
It feels so good to say that *when Taylor was champion* hahah i love it ;D
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
in terms of excitment pavlik is up the with PACMAN
for me hes top 7
definitely. pavlik excites me like the way it is with pacman.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
I still would put Pacquaio in number 2. Pavlik in 8 or 9.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Pavlik is easily top 10. He looked better v JT than Winky and B Hop did in 3 fights and this was the best I've seen Taylor in any of those fights.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Seriously how can you possibly rate Kessler top 10 pvp ahead of Calzaghe ???
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Completely agree Bilbo CC
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
good observation there bilbo. I was actually planning to make a comment on it. anyway, everyone has their top ten and I would respect Sugar shaw's choices though I'm wondering why he did not include Cotto and Calzhage.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
I have answered this question so many times...but anyway:
Kessler has beaten Andrade and Mundine, all three of them are better than Lacy and look at the fuss that was made after Calzaghe beat him. In my mind Kessler has beaten the better competition.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
I have answered this question so many times...but anyway:
Kessler has beaten Andrade and Mundine, all three of them are better than Lacy and look at the fuss that was made after Calzaghe beat him. In my mind Kessler has beaten the better competition.
Who has Andrade beat to be better than Lacy? He's never even been a world champ?
Neither has Mundine unless you are the one person who actually counts being WBC 'regular' champ behind Kessler as a real world title ::**
And Chris Eubank was far better than either Andrade or Mundine.
And you didn't respond regarding Winky. ;)
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Andrade IMO is technically better than Lacy, it's not about who they fought.
Eubank was well past his prime when he fought Calzaghe. He had just lost 2 of his last 6 and the fight with Calzaghe came 7 years after his win over Nigel Benn, when he was his best.
As for Winky, i find i hard to rank a fighter who has only won one of his last three in the top 10 in the world.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four, both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade. The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
So basically after JC makes those fighters mentioned look stupid (remember the hype ...) all of a sudden there "not as good as we thought" or "over-hyped". The names you mention for Kessler arent exactly gonna set the world alight. Im gonna state this right now KESSLER IS GONNA LOSE A WIDE UD AND THEN HE'LL BE ANOTHER "not as good as we thought" or "over-hyped" fighter that Joe took care of.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four, both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade. The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four,
both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade.
The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
The Ring gave Calzaghe the belt because he beat the thrid rated guy in the world at that time but we all know the best guy doesn't always hold the title.
Hopkins is 2-2 because of poor judging.
Marquez and Vasquez have been knocked out but by each other. You cant put one thre without the other.
As for Eubank, not everyone peaks at the same age e.g. Tyson peaked very early
and 1-hit wonder, you seem very confident. I think a sig bet is in order.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four, both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade. The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four,
both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade.
The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
The Ring gave Calzaghe the belt because he beat the thrid rated guy in the world at that time but we all know the best guy doesn't always hold the title.
Hopkins is 2-2 because of poor judging.
Marquez and Vasquez have been knocked out but by each other. You cant put one thre without the other.
As for Eubank, not everyone peaks at the same age e.g. Tyson peaked very early
and 1-hit wonder, you seem very confident. I think a sig bet is in order.
I'll take a sig bet with you that Calzghe beats Kessler
I think Kessler is very good but putting him ahead of Calzaghe in the p4p rankings is purely based on conjecture.
If Kessler is there than Cotto should be above him seeing as Judah is better than either Andrade or Mundine.
When it comes to the Ring rankings you can only rank according to achievements and Kessler hasn't acheived as much.
Calzaghe is universally seen as the man in the division, El Gamo would you rate Kessler above him in the P4P? ???
I'm not asking who you think will win, two completely different things. I felt sure Pavlik would spark out Taylor but no way was he above him in the rankings before he beat him.
Same with Kessler, he's a tough challenge and could well beat Joe but you don't get to be the man until you have beaten the man.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
The sig bet is on
I'll PM you nearer the time
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
Ricky Hatton's # 5, but Miguel Cotto is nowhere to be seen?
Great list!!
:Sarcasm:
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
At least we agree on Hatton and Cotto ;)
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I enjoyed that first debate so much I am tempted to change my opinions jsut to start another ;D
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
I'll give you Tszyu, although I didn't like the way the fight was ref'ed. Castillo was a shell of his former self. And Cotto has had better overall opponents than Hatton. In MY list, their positions are reversed.
;)
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
At least we agree on Hatton and Cotto ;)
Oh... then it must be fact.
:Sarcasm:
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
We are all entitled to our opinion but I am just wondering, do you think Quintana is better than Collazo or De Marcus Corley is better than even a washed up Castillo. But i do concede that Malignaggi is better than Urango
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
At least we agree on Hatton and Cotto ;)
Oh... then it must be fact.
:Sarcasm:
;D
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
It'd be hard to pick between Quintana and Collazo... but look at how Cotto dispatched Quintana, and compare that with how Hatton narrowly escaped against Collazo.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
we shouldnt just look at who beat who here.
We should really try and put HOW who beat who. I mean, pavlik didnt just beat edison miranda, he ktfo'd him. Pavlik didnt just beat an undefeated jermaine taylor he knocked him out. (something BH x 2, Winky, joppy could not and did not do!) To me, the fashion in which he beat these people should weigh heavier on our minds than fights like PBF outpointing (outrunning) ODLH. Im not saying pavlik is THE p4p. but right now, i put him top 5 no question.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
i dont think pavlik should be in the top 10 p4p at all.
I dont know much about him but isnt the p4p rankings for fighters who have fought in different weight divisions and have proved themselves there ???
he beat 2 good guys in the same division what is p4p about that? maybe he is the man in his division but that is all.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doot
i dont think pavlik should be in the top 10 p4p at all.
I dont know much about him but isnt the p4p rankings for fighters who have fought in different weight divisions and have proved themselves there ???
he beat 2 good guys in the same division what is p4p about that? maybe he is the man in his division but that is all.
I sense a roasting from ICB or El Gamo coming on............ :bananastyle:
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
lol another thread ruined by someone posting a shit p4p list... anyhow back to the point...
Pavilk i would have anywhere from 15-20 i think... yeah he beat Taylor, props... It was a one punch win that won it, and Taylor getting to comfortable after the knockdowns that caused him to get tagged, Taylor will win the re-match, don't doubt it.
As for Pavlik, he is pretty easy to hit, has shit speed and very limited boxing skills. I like him, shows good heart and always puts on a show, but still the boy is a "Good" boxer at best, his power bailed him out in this fight. To say that this guy is on of the 10 best boxers in the world right now is laughable IMO
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doot
i dont think pavlik should be in the top 10 p4p at all.
I dont know much about him but isnt the p4p rankings for fighters who have fought in different weight divisions and have proved themselves there ???
he beat 2 good guys in the same division what is p4p about that? maybe he is the man in his division but that is all.
Uhh beating two of the best in division isn't P4P ?? so he has to fight in different weight divisions to be P4P ???
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I would put Pavlik to no.4
