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Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Well it was an awesome fight, I am happy and disappointed all at the same time. Jermain and Kelly showed tons of heart and they gave the fans a hell of a fight. That is why people watch boxing right there!
After this loss Jermain Taylor should move up to 168 and continue working with Manny....he didn't move enough vs Pavlik and his defense got lazy so with his first fights he should take on someone who allows him to work on this without fear of losing the fight. And after that he should move on to fighting Allan Green or Jeff Lacy both of whom I think he could easily beat.
Kelly Pavlik looks tough as nails...I think the match up for him is ARTHUR ABRAHAM! He took out Miranda, he took out Taylor, he needs to fight Abraham and then he's 110% the man in the division. He's a superstar in waiting and the fans will love watching him fight.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Well it was an awesome fight, I am happy and disappointed all at the same time. Jermain and Kelly showed tons of heart and they gave the fans a hell of a fight. That is why people watch boxing right there!
After this loss Jermain Taylor should move up to 168 and continue working with Manny....he didn't move enough vs Pavlik and his defense got lazy so with his first fights he should take on someone who allows him to work on this without fear of losing the fight. And after that he should move on to fighting Allan Green or Jeff Lacy both of whom I think he could easily beat.
Kelly Pavlik looks tough as nails...I think the match up for him is ARTHUR ABRAHAM! He took out Miranda, he took out Taylor, he needs to fight Abraham and then he's 110% the man in the division. He's a superstar in waiting and the fans will love watching him fight.
Yes i think Pavlik Abraham would be a classic !!!!!!!!!!!!!! bring it on:0
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
King Kelly V King Arthur....It's a match makers dream!
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
I'm a huge fan of King Arthur as well, love the way he fights. I don't think it will be a foregone conclusion by any means. Abraham has a way of soaking of tremendous pressure on the ropes and then bursting forth with some devasting quick attacks.
I can imagine a fight with Pavlik pressing Abraham up against the rope repeatedly with power shots, but Arthur covering up and launching some great attacking flurries towards the ends of each round.
Both man can really bang, both men get hit, should be a classic!
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Pavlik to fight Arthur, (superfight.)
Winner to defend.
Then face Andy Lee, with the middleweight title being brought back to Limerick Ireland.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
While good, is Andy Lee ready for a championship fight?
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
No he's not ready yet, but he's showing all the signs.
Honestly, iv never seen anyone learn as quick as Andy.
When he went pro i thought he'd never have the power to make an impact, but somehow he learned to hit hard. He is going to be the full package.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
...a fast southpaw with power...I think it could be a bad match up for Kelly.....in the future
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
quote author=Lyle link=topic=53535.msg681642#msg681642 date=1191419510]
...a fast southpaw with power...I think it could be a bad match up for Kelly.....in the future
[/quote]
But with emphasis on"in the future."
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
in the way way future.
Like someone else said, he is showing signs, but is VERY far from facing world champions.
I cannot stress VERY enough.
He has what it takes to be great. I just hope he isnt rushed. he has been a pro for 2 years (about), he's got some serious work to do.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
I think both fighters should stay at 160.
Pavlik just became middleweight champ, it's arguably the second most prostigious title in boxing (after heavyweight champ), he should stay there and defend it.
Taylor keeps saying he wants/needs to move up to 168, but I don't see him having much success there. Generally, the fighters who can move up effectively to higher weight classes are slick boxers who can beat bigger guys with movement and defense.
Taylor is not a slick boxer. In fact, his biggest attribute has always been his size. He's beaten 160 pounders because he's bigger, stronger, taller than most other middleweights. If he moves up, he'll no longer be fighting tons of guys who are smaller than he is.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
in the way way future.
Like someone else said, he is showing signs, but is VERY far from facing world champions.
I cannot stress VERY enough.
He has what it takes to be great. I just hope he isnt rushed. he has been a pro for 2 years (about), he's got some serious work to do.
He's been sparring world champions since day one tho, he turned pro straight off his olympic training, He's the class pet at the Kronk gym. Steward is professing he will be champ before the end of 2008 and to be honest if he's promoted and managed well i'm inclined to believe him.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
no one think Taylor should get a rematch then if he wants one - not really heard if he is after one mind ??
Fight was close enough and he was one decent punch away from a KO2 win which would have seriously altered Pavlik's destiny - not just for this fight obviously but down the line...
Rematch if Taylor wants it
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
no one think Taylor should get a rematch then if he wants one - not really heard if he is after one mind ??
Fight was close enough and he was one decent punch away from a KO2 win which would have seriously altered Pavlik's destiny - not just for this fight obviously but down the line...
Rematch if Taylor wants it
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Taylor does indeed deserve a rematch...but Kelly's taken on two of the mid's tuffest toppers & should either get a rest or a defense.
Just my opinion.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
TBH its probably crazy but id favour JT if he rematches.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
TBH its probably crazy but id favour JT if he rematches.
Why ??
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
TBH its probably crazy but id favour JT if he rematches.
Why ??
Assuming the match up occurs at SM, Jermaine will be fighting in a division which will suit him more than Pavlik, (kelly is a big guy but he's naturally lean, he'll actually have to gain body mass.)
Taylor boxed well against Pavlik, not dominating, but giving a good account of he will gain by travelling to SM i feel he will be more able to back up Pavlik.
Kelly has been quoted saying "he hits like a mule and he definitely caught me in round 2." This bodes well for Taylor.
In addition the psychological factor must be considered. Jermaines hunger seemed to be rekindled and i assume a loss will drive him even more. Should he seek a rematch he will,be a fighter hungry for revenge.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
in the way way future.
Like someone else said, he is showing signs, but is VERY far from facing world champions.
I cannot stress VERY enough.
He has what it takes to be great. I just hope he isnt rushed. he has been a pro for 2 years (about), he's got some serious work to do.
He's been sparring world champions since day one tho, he turned pro straight off his olympic training, He's the class pet at the Kronk gym. Steward is professing he will be champ before the end of 2008 and to be honest if he's promoted and managed well i'm inclined to believe him.
Do you know how many young up and comers spar world champs? LOTS, do you know how many Olympic trained fighters go pro right after? LOTS. Do you know how many trainers say Great things about their fighters futures? LOTS.
im not sure why you said what you did lol
However as far as Steward (whom i respect a great deal) predicting world titles for his pupil, i never said that he couldnt get a belt, im just saying he needs alot of work before that happens.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
TBH its probably crazy but id favour JT if he rematches.
Why ??
Assuming the match up occurs at SM, Jermaine will be fighting in a division which will suit him more than Pavlik, (kelly is a big guy but he's naturally lean, he'll actually have to gain body mass.)
Taylor boxed well against Pavlik, not dominating, but giving a good account of he will gain by travelling to SM i feel he will be more able to back up Pavlik.
Kelly has been quoted saying "he hits like a mule and he definitely caught me in round 2." This bodes well for Taylor.
In addition the psychological factor must be considered. Jermaines hunger seemed to be rekindled and i assume a loss will drive him even more. Should he seek a rematch he will,be a fighter hungry for revenge.
thats all well and good, however, just like JT can train harder to learn from his mistakes. So can pavlik.
Just like JT can be determined to regain his title, Pavlik can be just as determined to keep it as a first defense. none of those variables prove to be a deciding factor on the outcome of a rematch. Kelly says jt hits like a mule (which is true) but ask JT how pavlik hits. So does that bode well for pavlik?
Now, i wont make a prediction on the rematch until i see how both fighters are carrying themselves after this fight. However nothing stands out that shows me that the next fight should be any different than the first. meaning,
JT being more aggressive than usual
Pavlik setting the pace of the fight
Pavlik absorbing punishment to hand out his own..
JT falling for that right hand
Lots of what CAN happens, but it all remains to be seen
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
in the way way future.
Like someone else said, he is showing signs, but is VERY far from facing world champions.
I cannot stress VERY enough.
He has what it takes to be great. I just hope he isnt rushed. he has been a pro for 2 years (about), he's got some serious work to do.
He's been sparring world champions since day one tho, he turned pro straight off his olympic training, He's the class pet at the Kronk gym. Steward is professing he will be champ before the end of 2008 and to be honest if he's promoted and managed well i'm inclined to believe him.
Do you know how many young up and comers spar world champs? LOTS, do you know how many Olympic trained fighters go pro right after? LOTS. Do you know how many trainers say Great things about their fighters futures? LOTS.
im not sure why you said what you did lol
However as far as Steward (whom i respect a great deal) predicting world titles for his pupil, i never said that he couldnt get a belt, im just saying he needs alot of work before that happens.
I'm well aware of all of these factors, Lee participated in the 2004 olympics, would u not agree that he has accomplished a lot in the past three years? Would you not agree that he is in fact one of thee hottest prospects in boxing? The man is an exceptional talent who iv been lucky enough to share a gym with and it is my belief that Steward is not just hyping himup, he's genuinely grooming Lee for greatness and the steep learning curve illustrates that they are in a hurry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
TBH its probably crazy but id favour JT if he rematches.
Why ??
Assuming the match up occurs at SM, Jermaine will be fighting in a division which will suit him more than Pavlik, (kelly is a big guy but he's naturally lean, he'll actually have to gain body mass.)
Taylor boxed well against Pavlik, not dominating, but giving a good account of he will gain by travelling to SM i feel he will be more able to back up Pavlik.
Kelly has been quoted saying "he hits like a mule and he definitely caught me in round 2." This bodes well for Taylor.
In addition the psychological factor must be considered. Jermaines hunger seemed to be rekindled and i assume a loss will drive him even more. Should he seek a rematch he will,be a fighter hungry for revenge.
thats all well and good, however, just like JT can train harder to learn from his mistakes. So can pavlik.
Just like JT can be determined to regain his title, Pavlik can be just as determined to keep it as a first defense. none of those variables prove to be a deciding factor on the outcome of a rematch. Kelly says jt hits like a mule (which is true) but ask JT how pavlik hits. So does that bode well for pavlik?
Now, i wont make a prediction on the rematch until i see how both fighters are carrying themselves after this fight. However nothing stands out that shows me that the next fight should be any different than the first. meaning,
JT being more aggressive than usual
Pavlik setting the pace of the fight
Pavlik absorbing punishment to hand out his own..
JT falling for that right hand
Lots of what CAN happens, but it all remains to be seen
The fact is that in the fight both men were hurt and both men had oppotunities to score Knockouts. Pavlik was the better fighter on the night and managed to seize his chance with both hands.
Howevr, Taylor had he been more expieienced in the situation and been calmer and more calculating could well have finished Kelly in the second round.
It was an incredibly close fight, i can't understand why you see no opportunity for a swing in advantage toward Taylor should they engage each other again.
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Re: Taylor-Pavlik: where to go from here
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
in the way way future.
Like someone else said, he is showing signs, but is VERY far from facing world champions.
I cannot stress VERY enough.
He has what it takes to be great. I just hope he isnt rushed. he has been a pro for 2 years (about), he's got some serious work to do.
He's been sparring world champions since day one tho, he turned pro straight off his olympic training, He's the class pet at the Kronk gym. Steward is professing he will be champ before the end of 2008 and to be honest if he's promoted and managed well i'm inclined to believe him.
Do you know how many young up and comers spar world champs? LOTS, do you know how many Olympic trained fighters go pro right after? LOTS. Do you know how many trainers say Great things about their fighters futures? LOTS.
im not sure why you said what you did lol
However as far as Steward (whom i respect a great deal) predicting world titles for his pupil, i never said that he couldnt get a belt, im just saying he needs alot of work before that happens.
I'm well aware of all of these factors, Lee participated in the 2004 olympics, would u not agree that he has accomplished a lot in the past three years? Would you not agree that he is in fact one of thee hottest prospects in boxing? The man is an exceptional talent who iv been lucky enough to share a gym with and it is my belief that Steward is not just hyping himup, he's genuinely grooming Lee for greatness and the steep learning curve illustrates that they are in a hurry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
TBH its probably crazy but id favour JT if he rematches.
Why ??
Assuming the match up occurs at SM, Jermaine will be fighting in a division which will suit him more than Pavlik, (kelly is a big guy but he's naturally lean, he'll actually have to gain body mass.)
Taylor boxed well against Pavlik, not dominating, but giving a good account of he will gain by travelling to SM i feel he will be more able to back up Pavlik.
Kelly has been quoted saying "he hits like a mule and he definitely caught me in round 2." This bodes well for Taylor.
In addition the psychological factor must be considered. Jermaines hunger seemed to be rekindled and i assume a loss will drive him even more. Should he seek a rematch he will,be a fighter hungry for revenge.
thats all well and good, however, just like JT can train harder to learn from his mistakes. So can pavlik.
Just like JT can be determined to regain his title, Pavlik can be just as determined to keep it as a first defense. none of those variables prove to be a deciding factor on the outcome of a rematch. Kelly says jt hits like a mule (which is true) but ask JT how pavlik hits. So does that bode well for pavlik?
Now, i wont make a prediction on the rematch until i see how both fighters are carrying themselves after this fight. However nothing stands out that shows me that the next fight should be any different than the first. meaning,
JT being more aggressive than usual
Pavlik setting the pace of the fight
Pavlik absorbing punishment to hand out his own..
JT falling for that right hand
Lots of what CAN happens, but it all remains to be seen
The fact is that in the fight both men were hurt and both men had oppotunities to score Knockouts. Pavlik was the better fighter on the night and managed to seize his chance with both hands.
Howevr, Taylor had he been more expieienced in the situation and been calmer and more calculating could well have finished Kelly in the second round.
It was an incredibly close fight, i can't understand why you see no opportunity for a swing in advantage toward Taylor should they engage each other again.
I dont see ANY opportunity for a swing in advantage for taylor because as of right now whatever it is you say taylor can do to better himself, pavlik has the same opportunity. But as of right now, I cannot give an edge to taylor for the following:
1)defense-IMO (no, not the refs, obviously) pavlik had a better answer for JT's offense. yes, pavlik got knocked down. But for the remainder of the fight i could see pavlik dealing with JT's offense better than vice versa
2)offense- IMO pavlik's jab had more heat on it than JT's, he followed the jab with other punches better than JT's, he pushed JT back the entire fight. JT's back was against the ropes alot more than pavliks. Pavlik also can finish a fight, I.e Taylor curled up in a ball against the ropes.
3)experience- No advantage to either fighter right now. Since JT has fought the likes of BH,WW, and it didnt prove to help him in this fight at all.
4)strength-IMO pavlik has more authority on his punches, he is trying to do something with ever punch.
5)conditioning-Even with the incredible knockdown, @ 1 minute left of the round pavlik ends up being the aggressor again!, JT was spent.
I will admit the possibility of the second fight having a different outcome when i see proof of it, not by what i HOPE to see (which in this case happens to be the same result ;D).
But as of right now, from what ive seen. Pavlik had jt's number for a majority of that fight. thats why i was sincerely surprised at the judges score cards. Even JT believed (through steward) that he was losing that fight. SO all in all, out of that fight, i did not see anything that tells me that fight could be alot different.
saying that JT should be more likely to succeed this time because he will be motivated not to lose is not acceptable to me. because i could argue that point with saying that pavlik will be even more motivated not to lose at his first title defense.
