Lucky Fighters

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10-06-2007, 05:33 PM
BoomBoom

Lucky Fighters

First, let me say that almost all professional boxers work their @sses off, but it seems like some guys seem to have more luck on their side than others. From undeserved title shots to publicity, to big paydays. Sometimes a fighters persona outside the ring can get them further than a equally as good or better fighter with a less charismatic personality or a fighter with simply no luck. Guys that come to mind for me are Peter Manfredo or Zab Judah of late, Jameel McCline, even Laila Ali, not to say those fighters aren't any good but they've been in positions that more deserving fighters have never been in. Or is it just a matter of good promotion and overhype?
10-06-2007, 05:41 PM
El Gamo

Re: Lucky Fighters

Nice thread. The names that come to mind are:

Zab Judah-spoilt bastard. Gets title shots after title shots.Loses,takes a warm up,gets another title shot. Nearly all his title shots at 147 were undeserved and he does not deserve any for a long time.

Rocky Juarez- same as Judah. Almost as delusional. Got his ass handed to him by Humberto Soto. Soto STILL has not had a shot. Juarez got a shot at a horrible version of MAB and still lost(most had MAB by 2,myself included). Then he gets an undeserved rematch,loses every round getting his ears boxed off and then says MAB ran>??? The he looks lackluster,and,lo,behold,gets another title shot v JMM.

Bernard hopkins- a wonderful fighter,incredible work ethic but lucky in the sense that when he was 160 champ there were not that many big challenges around,so when you look at his title defences,you think is ram packed filled with good/great opponents.It's not. Careful match making or genuine lack of opponents? I don't know.

I'll think of more later. I think you should add unlucky to the thread title too,makes it more interesting.
10-06-2007, 05:43 PM
:::PSL:::

Re: Lucky Fighters

Edwin Valero. By not fighting top dogs. He's got the "brain damage" excuse.
10-06-2007, 05:45 PM
El Gamo

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Edwin Valero. By not fighting top dogs. He's got the "brain damage" excuse.

It's not an excuse,it's a legit reason! And Mosquera was a dam tough fighter.
10-06-2007, 05:48 PM
Dark Lord Al

Re: Lucky Fighters

Good thread
Luckiest for me was Frank Bruno , won it on his fourth shot , i mean how many chances does an undeserving challenger get ?????????

Also zab of course.

Said Lawal , i mean how lucky was this guy ? the guy was clinically dead when they wheeled him into the ring againest Hamed and it lasted 17 seconds or something ridiculous but the guy had passed away before the night of the fight !!! but as it was a Frank Warren promotion no one , not even the press or ring side fans noticed as ALL Warrens promotion feature his NAME fighter againest a bum ;D :Sarcasm:
CHEERS FRANK :)
10-06-2007, 05:49 PM
:::PSL:::

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Edwin Valero. By not fighting top dogs. He's got the "brain damage" excuse.

It's not an excuse,it's a legit reason! And Mosquera was a dam tough fighter.

"legit reason" That's a good way putting it and I can live with that.
10-06-2007, 05:56 PM
BoomBoom

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Nice thread. The names that come to mind are:

Zab Judah-spoilt B******. Gets title shots after title shots.Loses,takes a warm up,gets another title shot. Nearly all his title shots at 147 were undeserved and he does not deserve any for a long time.

Rocky Juarez- same as Judah. Almost as delusional. Got his a** handed to him by Humberto Soto. Soto STILL has not had a shot. Juarez got a shot at a horrible version of MAB and still lost(most had MAB by 2,myself included). Then he gets an undeserved rematch,loses every round getting his ears boxed off and then says MAB ran>??? The he looks lackluster,and,lo,behold,gets another title shot v JMM.

Bernard hopkins- a wonderful fighter,incredible work ethic but lucky in the sense that when he was 160 champ there were not that many big challenges around,so when you look at his title defences,you think is ram packed filled with good/great opponents.It's not. Careful match making or genuine lack of opponents? I don't know.

I'll think of more later. I think you should add unlucky to the thread title too,makes it more interesting.

Thanks Ill probably do an unlucky thread down the line unless you want to start it up. Juarez is definately lucky to even be in with some of the guys he has given his lackluster performances. Also, he was very lucky to get thae win in his fight on the ODLA-Floyd undercard. I thought he lost that one. Not sure abou B-Hop though. He was just not in the best era for middleweights, but hes very deserving of where hes got to imo.
10-06-2007, 05:58 PM
El Gamo

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Edwin Valero. By not fighting top dogs. He's got the "brain damage" excuse.

It's not an excuse,it's a legit reason! And Mosquera was a dam tough fighter.

"legit reason" That's a good way putting it and I can live with that.

LOL,I mean the brain damage really happened,it's legitimate. You can't expect Valero to start fighting the best in the world after such limited pro experience!

I'd like to add Shane Mosley. Lucky because anyone else who is a "health freak" and yet admitted to having taken drugs would have an asterix placed next to the fights near the time of the doping and would be blasted by all fans. Lucky he's such a nice guy,heck I find it hard to be mad at him because he's such a nice dude! ANY other fighter would be hounded!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Nice thread. The names that come to mind are:

Zab Judah-spoilt B******. Gets title shots after title shots.Loses,takes a warm up,gets another title shot. Nearly all his title shots at 147 were undeserved and he does not deserve any for a long time.

Rocky Juarez- same as Judah. Almost as delusional. Got his a** handed to him by Humberto Soto. Soto STILL has not had a shot. Juarez got a shot at a horrible version of MAB and still lost(most had MAB by 2,myself included). Then he gets an undeserved rematch,loses every round getting his ears boxed off and then says MAB ran>??? The he looks lackluster,and,lo,behold,gets another title shot v JMM.

Bernard hopkins- a wonderful fighter,incredible work ethic but lucky in the sense that when he was 160 champ there were not that many big challenges around,so when you look at his title defences,you think is ram packed filled with good/great opponents.It's not. Careful match making or genuine lack of opponents? I don't know.

I'll think of more later. I think you should add unlucky to the thread title too,makes it more interesting.

Thanks Ill probably do an unlucky thread down the line unless you want to start it up. Juarez is definately lucky to even be in with some of the guys he has given his lackluster performances. Also, he was very lucky to get thae win in his fight on the ODLA-Floyd undercard. I thought he lost that one. Not sure abou B-Hop though. He was just not in the best era for middleweights, but hes very deserving of where hes got to imo.

CC for a great thread,really has me thinking! Yeah,maybe I'm too harsh on B Hop and it was just the era he fought in. Just,having watched his career,I was so underwhelmed by his level of opposition. You're probably right though,it was the generation of middleweights.
10-06-2007, 06:02 PM
BoomBoom

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Good thread
Luckiest for me was Frank Bruno , won it on his fourth shot , i mean how many chances does an undeserving challenger get ?????????

Also zab of course.

Said Lawal , i mean how lucky was this guy ? the guy was clinically dead when they wheeled him into the ring againest Hamed and it lasted 17 seconds or something ridiculous but the guy had passed away before the night of the fight !!! but as it was a Frank Warren promotion no one , not even the press or ring side fans noticed as ALL Warrens promotion feature his NAME fighter againest a bum ;D :Sarcasm:
CHEERS FRANK :)

Frank Bruno is a pretty good one. Its hard to beleive he was the champion when he fought Tyson the second time.
10-06-2007, 06:09 PM
BoomBoom

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Edwin Valero. By not fighting top dogs. He's got the "brain damage" excuse.

It's not an excuse,it's a legit reason! And Mosquera was a dam tough fighter.

"legit reason" That's a good way putting it and I can live with that.

LOL,I mean the brain damage really happened,it's legitimate. You can't expect Valero to start fighting the best in the world after such limited pro experience!

I'd like to add Shane Mosley. Lucky because anyone else who is a "health freak" and yet admitted to having taken drugs would have an asterix placed next to the fights near the time of the doping and would be blasted by all fans. Lucky he's such a nice guy,heck I find it hard to be mad at him because he's such a nice dude! ANY other fighter would be hounded!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Nice thread. The names that come to mind are:

Zab Judah-spoilt B******. Gets title shots after title shots.Loses,takes a warm up,gets another title shot. Nearly all his title shots at 147 were undeserved and he does not deserve any for a long time.

Rocky Juarez- same as Judah. Almost as delusional. Got his a** handed to him by Humberto Soto. Soto STILL has not had a shot. Juarez got a shot at a horrible version of MAB and still lost(most had MAB by 2,myself included). Then he gets an undeserved rematch,loses every round getting his ears boxed off and then says MAB ran>??? The he looks lackluster,and,lo,behold,gets another title shot v JMM.

Bernard hopkins- a wonderful fighter,incredible work ethic but lucky in the sense that when he was 160 champ there were not that many big challenges around,so when you look at his title defences,you think is ram packed filled with good/great opponents.It's not. Careful match making or genuine lack of opponents? I don't know.

I'll think of more later. I think you should add unlucky to the thread title too,makes it more interesting.

Thanks Ill probably do an unlucky thread down the line unless you want to start it up. Juarez is definately lucky to even be in with some of the guys he has given his lackluster performances. Also, he was very lucky to get thae win in his fight on the ODLA-Floyd undercard. I thought he lost that one. Not sure abou B-Hop though. He was just not in the best era for middleweights, but hes very deserving of where hes got to imo.

CC for a great thread,really has me thinking! Yeah,maybe I'm too harsh on B Hop and it was just the era he fought in. Just,having watched his career,I was so underwhelmed by his level of opposition. You're probably right though,it was the generation of middleweights.

cc back. I have no doubt that if he was in the Hagler era he would have fough the same guys he did. He has showed in the last couple years that hes not afraid of a challenge and he always tried to make a rematch with Jones, but Roy wanted no part of it unless he got paid more so I cant blame Hop for that one either. There was just nobody in 90s.
10-06-2007, 06:12 PM
El Gamo

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Edwin Valero. By not fighting top dogs. He's got the "brain damage" excuse.

It's not an excuse,it's a legit reason! And Mosquera was a dam tough fighter.

"legit reason" That's a good way putting it and I can live with that.

LOL,I mean the brain damage really happened,it's legitimate. You can't expect Valero to start fighting the best in the world after such limited pro experience!

I'd like to add Shane Mosley. Lucky because anyone else who is a "health freak" and yet admitted to having taken drugs would have an asterix placed next to the fights near the time of the doping and would be blasted by all fans. Lucky he's such a nice guy,heck I find it hard to be mad at him because he's such a nice dude! ANY other fighter would be hounded!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Nice thread. The names that come to mind are:

Zab Judah-spoilt B******. Gets title shots after title shots.Loses,takes a warm up,gets another title shot. Nearly all his title shots at 147 were undeserved and he does not deserve any for a long time.

Rocky Juarez- same as Judah. Almost as delusional. Got his a** handed to him by Humberto Soto. Soto STILL has not had a shot. Juarez got a shot at a horrible version of MAB and still lost(most had MAB by 2,myself included). Then he gets an undeserved rematch,loses every round getting his ears boxed off and then says MAB ran>??? The he looks lackluster,and,lo,behold,gets another title shot v JMM.

Bernard hopkins- a wonderful fighter,incredible work ethic but lucky in the sense that when he was 160 champ there were not that many big challenges around,so when you look at his title defences,you think is ram packed filled with good/great opponents.It's not. Careful match making or genuine lack of opponents? I don't know.

I'll think of more later. I think you should add unlucky to the thread title too,makes it more interesting.

Thanks Ill probably do an unlucky thread down the line unless you want to start it up. Juarez is definately lucky to even be in with some of the guys he has given his lackluster performances. Also, he was very lucky to get thae win in his fight on the ODLA-Floyd undercard. I thought he lost that one. Not sure abou B-Hop though. He was just not in the best era for middleweights, but hes very deserving of where hes got to imo.

CC for a great thread,really has me thinking! Yeah,maybe I'm too harsh on B Hop and it was just the era he fought in. Just,having watched his career,I was so underwhelmed by his level of opposition. You're probably right though,it was the generation of middleweights.

cc back. I have no doubt that if he was in the Hagler era he would have fough the same guys he did. He has showed in the last couple years that hes not afraid of a challenge and he always tried to make a rematch with Jones, but Roy wanted no part of it unless he got paid more so I cant blame Hop for that one either. There was just nobody in 90s.

Yeah,you're probably right. One thing though? Wasn't there a middleweight tournament in themid 90s.(I wasn't a boxing fan at the time so I cannot say for sure,that's why I'm asking). And who entered the tournament?
10-06-2007, 06:17 PM
ICB

Re: Lucky Fighters

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.
10-06-2007, 06:25 PM
BoomBoom

Re: Lucky Fighters

Gamo, the only Middleweight tournament i know of was Don Kings middleweight Tournament in 2000 or 2001 and Hopkins won it. Not sure about any tournament in the late 80s-90s though.
10-06-2007, 06:51 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.

You only had 2 hot dinners?
10-06-2007, 06:53 PM
SweetPea

Re: Lucky Fighters

Chavez got some lucky breaks.

He was involved in arguably the most controversial referee decision ever in the Taylor fight, and then was involved in the most controversial judging decision ever in the Whitaker fight.

Also, a lot of people thought he got a gift in the second Randall fight.
10-06-2007, 06:54 PM
ICB

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.

You only had 2 hot dinners?

Charles Brewer
Glen Johnson
Mads Larsen
Robin Reid
10-06-2007, 06:58 PM
Trainer Monkey

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Gamo, the only Middleweight tournament i know of was Don Kings middleweight Tournament in 2000 or 2001 and Hopkins won it. Not sure about any tournament in the late 80s-90s though.

It was indeed in 2001 all 3 major champions,Hopkins,Joppy,an Holmes were in it,+ Tito
And just to put the cherry on top,Hopkins beat Holmes in the Tourney,but went on to beat Joppy in case there was any doubt on the outcome no matter who he had to fight in it
10-06-2007, 07:20 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.

You only had 2 hot dinners?

Charles Brewer
Glen Johnson
Mads Larsen
Robin Reid

I use to think just like every body else that Ottke resume was full of gift descions. Than I started studying his fights. Watching them for myself. And my opinion has changed some what.

Charles Brewer- The first fight was close, but I thought Brewer as the defending champion should of got the win. He didn't. Ottke rematched him 2 years later and beat him legit wise. Brewer himself said he didn't do enough to win.

Glen Johnson- Have you seen this fight? Johnson threw a bunch of punches but missed all night. Ottke jab was in his face and scored points with it. Ottke took the first rounds pretty fucking easy. Johnson rallied late, but clearly came up short.

Mads Larsen- A close fight. But Larsen didn't do enough to win.

Robin Reid- The ref was clearly in favor of Ottke. And Reid was easily winning the fight early on. But he got so frustrated that he literally stopped fighting in the second half? Allowing Ottke to win rounds. Even Reid's own corner was telling him that he had to fight harder. The scores were ridicules. But I had Ottke winning by a point.
10-06-2007, 07:31 PM
Mr140

Re: Lucky Fighters

CC Violent for doing your homework on the fights and taking the time and giving a good post
10-06-2007, 07:33 PM
ICB

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.

You only had 2 hot dinners?

Charles Brewer
Glen Johnson
Mads Larsen
Robin Reid

I use to think just like every body else that Ottke resume was full of gift descions. Than I started studying his fights. Watching them for myself. And my opinion has changed some what.

Charles Brewer- The first fight was close, but I thought Brewer as the defending champion should of got the win. He didn't. Ottke rematched him 2 years later and beat him legit wise. Brewer himself said he didn't do enough to win.

Glen Johnson- Have you seen this fight? Johnson threw a bunch of punches but missed all night. Ottke jab was in his face and scored points with it. Ottke took the first rounds pretty F****** easy. Johnson rallied late, but clearly came up short.

Mads Larsen- A close fight. But Larsen didn't do enough to win.

Robin Reid- The ref was clearly in favor of Ottke. And Reid was easily winning the fight early on. But he got so frustrated that he literally stopped fighting in the second half? Allowing Ottke to win rounds. Even Reid's own corner was telling him that he had to fight harder. The scores were ridicules. But I had Ottke winning by a point.

Good post im not saying they were robberies although i think Reid won Ottke fight by 2 rounds and the ref was clearly on Ottke's side but whats your opinion on Mitchell vs Ottke fight ??
10-06-2007, 07:40 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.

You only had 2 hot dinners?

Charles Brewer
Glen Johnson
Mads Larsen
Robin Reid

I use to think just like every body else that Ottke resume was full of gift descions. Than I started studying his fights. Watching them for myself. And my opinion has changed some what.

Charles Brewer- The first fight was close, but I thought Brewer as the defending champion should of got the win. He didn't. Ottke rematched him 2 years later and beat him legit wise. Brewer himself said he didn't do enough to win.

Glen Johnson- Have you seen this fight? Johnson threw a bunch of punches but missed all night. Ottke jab was in his face and scored points with it. Ottke took the first rounds pretty F****** easy. Johnson rallied late, but clearly came up short.

Mads Larsen- A close fight. But Larsen didn't do enough to win.

Robin Reid- The ref was clearly in favor of Ottke. And Reid was easily winning the fight early on. But he got so frustrated that he literally stopped fighting in the second half? Allowing Ottke to win rounds. Even Reid's own corner was telling him that he had to fight harder. The scores were ridicules. But I had Ottke winning by a point.

Good post im not saying they were robbery's although i think Reid won Ottke fight by 2 rounds whats your take on Mitchell vs Ottke fight ??

Ottke jabbed and ran all night. Mitchell followed with his hand cocked but rarely pulled the trigger. Ottke again on points. Ottke-Thomas Tate 1, I taught was a fucking gift for Ottke. He did win the rematch pretty easily, though.
10-06-2007, 07:41 PM
ICB

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Sven Ottke he had more gift decisions than i've had hot dinners.

You only had 2 hot dinners?

Charles Brewer
Glen Johnson
Mads Larsen
Robin Reid

I use to think just like every body else that Ottke resume was full of gift descions. Than I started studying his fights. Watching them for myself. And my opinion has changed some what.

Charles Brewer- The first fight was close, but I thought Brewer as the defending champion should of got the win. He didn't. Ottke rematched him 2 years later and beat him legit wise. Brewer himself said he didn't do enough to win.

Glen Johnson- Have you seen this fight? Johnson threw a bunch of punches but missed all night. Ottke jab was in his face and scored points with it. Ottke took the first rounds pretty F****** easy. Johnson rallied late, but clearly came up short.

Mads Larsen- A close fight. But Larsen didn't do enough to win.

Robin Reid- The ref was clearly in favor of Ottke. And Reid was easily winning the fight early on. But he got so frustrated that he literally stopped fighting in the second half? Allowing Ottke to win rounds. Even Reid's own corner was telling him that he had to fight harder. The scores were ridicules. But I had Ottke winning by a point.

Good post im not saying they were robbery's although i think Reid won Ottke fight by 2 rounds whats your take on Mitchell vs Ottke fight ??

Ottke jabbed and ran all night. Mitchell followed with his hand cocked but rarely pulled the trigger. Ottke again on points. Ottke-Thomas Tate 1, I taught was a F****** gift for Ottke. He did win the rematch pretty easily, though.

Haven't see Tate vs Ottke i'll have to get that fight.
10-06-2007, 10:20 PM
Spicoli

Re: Lucky Fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Gamo, the only Middleweight tournament i know of was Don Kings middleweight Tournament in 2000 or 2001 and Hopkins won it. Not sure about any tournament in the late 80s-90s though.

It was indeed in 2001 all 3 major champions,Hopkins,Joppy,an Holmes were in it,+ Tito
And just to put the cherry on top,Hopkins beat Holmes in the Tourney,but went on to beat Joppy in case there was any doubt on the outcome no matter who he had to fight in it

Hopkins Made Joppy Look Like some freakishly deformed hobgoblin after that fight.It was UGLY.Ive always thought that Hopkins dose not like knockouts,he really likes to beat people up.sometimes he admires his work too much.