Jr. vs Jr. Prolly an easy question but....

Roy Jones the King jr

vs

Pretty boy floyd Mayweather jr.

Who is better? pound for pound and legacy?

Right now I'm saying Roy.

Capturing titles from middleweight all the way up to heavyweight is an incredible feat.

And aside from Mike Tyson no boxer ever looked better beating up B list opponents than Roy Jones.

Mayweather is a defensive master and an awesome fighter, but Roy Jones had an offensive arsenal that was simply dazzling to behold.

Still Floyd's unbeaten run is impressive and he's still going. He could yet overtake Roy providing he doesnt' lose.

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

Roy Jones the King jr

vs

Pretty boy floyd Mayweather jr.

Who is better? pound for pound and legacy?

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I think by the time Mayweather finishes his career he will have better legacy but at the moment Roy Jones Jr obvisiously.

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

Roy Jones the King jr

vs

Pretty boy floyd Mayweather jr.

Who is better? pound for pound and legacy?

---

I think by the time Mayweather finishes his career he will have better legacy but at the moment Roy Jones Jr obvisiously.

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yea roy by far but floyd beating hatton will move him a step closer. floyd has a long way to get there though, and it could end at cotto or mosley. Roy had no rivals in his prime, they couldn't compare to him not even bhop or james toney. floyd has one to many welterweights in his prime that can suprise him with a beating. goodluck to floyd though ;)

Its hard to say... both have similar levels of opposition, both are amazingly fast, but ROy Jones Jr. because of his athleticism could make even the highest level of competition look easy. Technically there hasn't been anyone like Floyd Mayweather jr., but despite the fact he is a great athlete, he isn't the same athlete Roy Jones Jr. was, and there has never been an athlete like Roy Jones Jr. in the sport. If they fought p4p I would vote for Roy Jones Jr. based on what I saw with Mayweather against Oscar. However I believe Mayweather has a run of big fights in the near future. He is in the most skill packed division with nowhere to go, and I think he isn't scared to stay and fight the welterweights. IMO Mayweather has a chance to have a record that will put him in the top 20 p4p of almost anyone, but he still has Mosley, Margarito, Williams, Cotto, maybe later on Berto inbetween him and that stature.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Right now I'm saying Roy.

Capturing titles from middleweight all the way up to heavyweight is an incredible feat.

And aside from Mike Tyson no boxer ever looked better beating up B list opponents than Roy Jones.

Mayweather is a defensive master and an awesome fighter, but Roy Jones had an offensive arsenal that was simply dazzling to behold.

Still Floyd's unbeaten run is impressive and he's still going. He could yet overtake Roy providing he doesnt' lose.

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agreed

Roy easily. He beat far better fighters than Mayweather has.


Roy is the greatest of this passing era IMO.

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Originally Posted by Padilla

Roy easily. He beat far better fighters than Mayweather has.


Roy is the greatest of this passing era IMO.

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He lost his ass to Antonio Tarver a couple times, and even got sparked out by Glen "the Journeyman," Johnson.


Don't get me wrong, Roy is an all time great, but Mayweather has world titles in 5 different weight classes at 30 years old, is still undefeated, and is taking on undefeated world champion Ricky Hatton in his next fight.



Trust me, bro.........................






30 years from now, you will be telling people that you witnessed one of the greatest fighters of all time in his prime ;)

As of today RJJ.


By the time PBF retires it might be different.

roy jones is the greatest of all time

At Middleweight Roy seemed invincincible, even more so than Floyd at any weightclass.

PBF hasn't fought anyone close to B-Hop or Toney.

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

PBF hasn't fought anyone close to B-Hop or Toney.

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he has fought oscar

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

PBF hasn't fought anyone close to B-Hop or Toney.

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he has fought oscar

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Good point.
Tho most people will say RJJ met Hop & Toney at their best when they were young.
While PBF met an aged ODLH, which me personally I don't buy. I think ODLH had as good and better of a chance as the rest of PBF's opponents.

Oscar isnt nearly as good as Toney or B-Hop. Period. Hell an old B-Hop is better than a prime OScar. Oscar should stick to metro and promoting or to taking dives.

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

PBF hasn't fought anyone close to B-Hop or Toney.

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he has fought oscar

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ODH was almost as old when he fought mayweather as chavez was he he fought him, which is one of the reason everyone thinks ODH is so good

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Oscar isnt nearly as good as Toney or B-Hop. Period. Hell an old B-Hop is better than a prime OScar. Oscar should stick to metro and promoting or to taking dives.

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oouch!

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

PBF hasn't fought anyone close to B-Hop or Toney.

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he has fought oscar

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ODH was almost as old when he fought mayweather as chavez was he he fought him, which is one of the reason everyone thinks ODH is so good

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Hopkins is an all time great so is Toney as is Oscar. Floyd is also going to be remembered as an all time great but p4p he isnt as good as Jones was in his prime. When Jones was fighting at middleweight and supermiddle his punches looked like he was hitting opponents with a sledgehammer and the speed was like nothing ive ever seen at that weight. Not even Ray Leonard had speed like that at middle/supermiddleweight. Another thing is that people say Floyd is a defensive genius which I totally agree with but Jones wasn't bad defensively either after all isnt he the only man in punch stat history not to take a punch for a whole round?

RJJ as of now.

Easily Roy Jones Jr. I mean look at his record James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Mike McCallum, Montell Griffin, Virgil Hill, and the list goes on of good and great fighters he has faced. Mayweather hasn't faced as many quality opponents as Roy but we will see what happens by the end of his career.

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Oscar isnt nearly as good as Toney or B-Hop. Period. Hell an old B-Hop is better than a prime OScar. Oscar should stick to metro and promoting or to taking dives.

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Besides the size difference which HOpkins had Oscar was holding his own in that fight way more than against Mayweather. Toney is a great fighter, and I will never take that fight away from Roy, but he isn't way better than Oscar, and his lack of speed lost him that fight. Oscar was as fast as he'd ever been at 154 against Mayweather, and he carried his extra weight better htan Toney did that night who came in at 184 for his fight at 168.

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by Padilla

Roy easily. He beat far better fighters than Mayweather has.


Roy is the greatest of this passing era IMO.

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He lost his a** to Antonio Tarver a couple times, and even got sparked out by Glen "the Journeyman," Johnson.


Don't get me wrong, Roy is an all time great, but Mayweather has world titles in 5 different weight classes at 30 years old, is still undefeated, and is taking on undefeated world champion Ricky Hatton in his next fight.



Trust me, bro.........................






30 years from now, you will be telling people that you witnessed one of the greatest fighters of all time in his prime ;)

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Think about this. Before he lost to Tarver and Johnson. Did you realistically beleive ANYONE had a chance at beating him. There hasnt been many fighters in this sport with the kind of talent that Roy had. You cant blame him for those losses. As you know the downslide in boxing can be a steep slope. And with some fighters it can be a cliff.

And as for the titles. Mayweather picked up alot of those against questionable opposition. Just like Delahoya did before him. Hernandez, and Castillo was solid opponents. But he won the 140 from Corley I think. I could be wrong. And he got the 147 from Baldomir. I wouldnt say thats the greatest of champs. But you're right though. The 5 belts look good. But IMO when it comes to measuring greatness the main criteria is who they fought and beat.

Roy Jones jnr

When he was in his prime there was no question he could beat anyone , anywhere ! You dont get that feeliong with Floyd .

RJJ right now i guess, but i reckon that should things go right for mayweather he will be the one remembered. I feel that when making this decision it is very difficult to be objective. Roy was popular, Roy was a crowd pleaser and Roy was aggresive. Theses factors make himthe very antithesis of Mayweather. Mayweather is not all that popular, he boxers to win for himself not the crowd and he is not aggresive he neutralises his opponents aggression.

This makes it incredibly easy for us as fans to say that Roy was greater. He accomodated our needs and desires by fighting with an intriguing style in a way which excited us. He said the things we wanted to hear and we believed every word. He accomodated us the fans.

Mayweather as i have already stated is the anti-Jones. To use a Shakesperian line "Hyperion to a satyr." He fights using that scientific style which allows him to win convincingly without ever engaging in any dangerous exchanges or flurries. He kills the action in the Ring by negating his opponents work. Outside of the Ring he makes it quite clear he does this for himself. Mayweather accomodates Mayweather.

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

rj had a way bigger impact on boxing so rj son

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

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Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in there first or second fight, in fact some people believe he even lost the first. And he didn't dominate Oscar De La Hoya either.

But Mayweather's best opponents don't come close to matching up with Roy's. Diego Corrales(R.I.P.) doesn't come anywhere near the legacy of a Bernard Hopkins or a James Toney. Toney and Hopkins are boxers who have had great success in multiple weight classes, while Corrales only found success at lightweight. And when he did try to move up he got starched by Joshua Clottey.

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Originally Posted by GAME

Roy Jones jnr

When he was in his prime there was no question he could beat anyone , anywhere ! You dont get that feeliong with Floyd .

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I think a lot of people thought McClellan, Nunn, Benn would give him interesting fights. I think that ROy JOnes Jr. would have curb stomped anyone Ray Robinson ever fought even at 35 if he hadn't gone up to heavyweight, but people say Ray Robinson is better. BOth Mayweather and Jones have very solid names on their rosters, and both have made almost everyone look stupid. Mayweather had his troubles with Castillo which he rectified and Jones had his problems with Griffin.

Hard to tell right now but I do think Floyd will have more success later in his career-if he continues on like Roy has-because he's got better technical skill and relies a bit less on his athleticism. When he starts to slow down a bit he should still be all right cause he's just such a skilled guy.

I dont think Floyd will adapt well with age, because he has shown no concern about jumping weight and its effects on his body. Hes still reletively young, but hes the kind of guy when he losses, specifically gets stopped he will continue to fight but he will not be the same. Almost all of the great champions have regained a title and Floyd will want to do the same. Every fighter he has faced over 135 has shown him too much respect. I suspect Hatton may too (thjoughhopefully he doesnt). The guys that wouldnt, Cotto, Mosley, Williams, or whoever else he hasnt faced YET but when he does then we will know how great he is and will be in the history books.

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

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Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in there first or second fight, in fact some people believe he even lost the first. And he didn't dominate Oscar De La Hoya either.

But Mayweather's best opponents don't come close to matching up with Roy's. Diego Corrales(R.I.P.) doesn't come anywhere near the legacy of a Bernard Hopkins or a James Toney. Toney and Hopkins are boxers who have had great success in multiple weight classes, while Corrales only found success at lightweight. And when he did try to move up he got starched by Joshua Clottey.

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True that Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in their first meeting, but everyone has their nightmare nights.
See Roy vs. Montell Griffin 1. Mayweather really did beat Castillo in the rematch.
In reply to your comment on oscar, i feel that Pbf did a good job against the naturally much much bigger Oscar. Asking Mayweather to KO Oscar would have been the equivalent of Asking Roy to Ko John Ruiz, and no way in hell was that happening.

In relation to ur comments on Toney and Hopkins. Yes these two enjoyed great success in multiple weight classes....AFTER they had been beaten by Jones.
SAying the legacy's of these respective fighters was greater than that of Corrales is easy to say but incorrect when taken in context.
Hopkins had nowhere near peaked, he had never been world champion and his legacy will be based on how he changed AFTER the Jones fight. After the jones fight he became greta. Toney was a great Middleweight but again his success was at higher weights after the loss to Jones.
Corrales had already been champ before he met Mayweather.
What use is bringing Clottey into it? Did Corrales not redeem himself enough with the Castillo fight. Would you have preferred he had taken a more elongated beating?

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

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Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in there first or second fight, in fact some people believe he even lost the first. And he didn't dominate Oscar De La Hoya either.

But Mayweather's best opponents don't come close to matching up with Roy's. Diego Corrales(R.I.P.) doesn't come anywhere near the legacy of a Bernard Hopkins or a James Toney. Toney and Hopkins are boxers who have had great success in multiple weight classes, while Corrales only found success at lightweight. And when he did try to move up he got starched by Joshua Clottey.

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True that Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in their first meeting, but everyone has their nightmare nights.
See Roy vs. Montell Griffin 1. Mayweather really did beat Castillo in the rematch.
In reply to your comment on oscar, i feel that Pbf did a good job against the naturally much much bigger Oscar. Asking Mayweather to KO Oscar would have been the equivalent of Asking Roy to Ko John Ruiz, and no way in hell was that happening.

In relation to ur comments on Toney and Hopkins. Yes these two enjoyed great success in multiple weight classes....AFTER they had been beaten by Jones.
SAying the legacy's of these respective fighters was greater than that of Corrales is easy to say but incorrect when taken in context.
Hopkins had nowhere near peaked, he had never been world champion and his legacy will be based on how he changed AFTER the Jones fight. After the jones fight he became greta. Toney was a great Middleweight but again his success was at higher weights after the loss to Jones.
Corrales had already been champ before he met Mayweather.
What use is bringing Clottey into it? Did Corrales not redeem himself enough with the Castillo fight. Would you have preferred he had taken a more elongated beating?

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Mayweather beat Castillo in their rematch but he far from dominated. If you want to use Montell Griffin as an example than see Jones Jr. vs. Griffin II. That is what domination looks like. I also disagree that asking a jr. lightweight(Floyd) to knockout a jr. middleweight(Oscar) is the same as asking a middleweight(Roy) to knockout a heavyweight(John).

Toney was a middleweight and super middleweight champ BEFORE he even fought Jones not after. And why hadn't Hopkins peaked? Besides a loss in his pro debut he was perfect until he met Jones. And after his loss to Jones, he didn't lose a fight until he fought Taylor, controversial as it was. So I don't see anything in there to indicate he peaked after he met Roy. He was a good fighter before and he was a good fighter after the Roy Jones Jr. fight. Because he loss to Jones Jr. doesn't mean he hadn't peaked it just means he faced a better fighter on that day. Jones was 21-0 and Hopkins was 22-1 when they fought, it wasn't like Hopkins was facing Jones after 5 fights.

What use is bringing Clottey into it? The Clottey fight lets you know that Corrales was a good lightweight, but that isn't comparable to say a Toney who was a good middleweight, supermiddleweight, cruiserweight, etc. As far as redeeming himself or taking a more elongated beating, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Why would Corrales need to redeem himself, he had one of the biggest hearts in boxing? And as far as a more elongated beating, I don't have any idea what fight you are referring to.

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

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Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in there first or second fight, in fact some people believe he even lost the first. And he didn't dominate Oscar De La Hoya either.

But Mayweather's best opponents don't come close to matching up with Roy's. Diego Corrales(R.I.P.) doesn't come anywhere near the legacy of a Bernard Hopkins or a James Toney. Toney and Hopkins are boxers who have had great success in multiple weight classes, while Corrales only found success at lightweight. And when he did try to move up he got starched by Joshua Clottey.

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True that Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in their first meeting, but everyone has their nightmare nights.
See Roy vs. Montell Griffin 1. Mayweather really did beat Castillo in the rematch.
In reply to your comment on oscar, i feel that Pbf did a good job against the naturally much much bigger Oscar. Asking Mayweather to KO Oscar would have been the equivalent of Asking Roy to Ko John Ruiz, and no way in hell was that happening.

In relation to ur comments on Toney and Hopkins. Yes these two enjoyed great success in multiple weight classes....AFTER they had been beaten by Jones.
SAying the legacy's of these respective fighters was greater than that of Corrales is easy to say but incorrect when taken in context.
Hopkins had nowhere near peaked, he had never been world champion and his legacy will be based on how he changed AFTER the Jones fight. After the jones fight he became greta. Toney was a great Middleweight but again his success was at higher weights after the loss to Jones.
Corrales had already been champ before he met Mayweather.
What use is bringing Clottey into it? Did Corrales not redeem himself enough with the Castillo fight. Would you have preferred he had taken a more elongated beating?

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Mayweather beat Castillo in their rematch but he far from dominated. If you want to use Montell Griffin as an example than see Jones Jr. vs. Griffin II. That is what domination looks like. I also disagree that asking a jr. lightweight(Floyd) to knockout a jr. middleweight(Oscar) is the same as asking a middleweight(Roy) to knockout a heavyweight(John).

Toney was a middleweight and super middleweight champ BEFORE he even fought Jones not after. And why hadn't Hopkins peaked? Besides a loss in his pro debut he was perfect until he met Jones. And after his loss to Jones, he didn't lose a fight until he fought Taylor, controversial as it was. So I don't see anything in there to indicate he peaked after he met Roy. He was a good fighter before and he was a good fighter after the Roy Jones Jr. fight. Because he loss to Jones Jr. doesn't mean he hadn't peaked it just means he faced a better fighter on that day. Jones was 21-0 and Hopkins was 22-1 when they fought, it wasn't like Hopkins was facing Jones after 5 fights.

What use is bringing Clottey into it? The Clottey fight lets you know that Corrales was a good lightweight, but that isn't comparable to say a Toney who was a good middleweight, supermiddleweight, cruiserweight, etc. As far as redeeming himself or taking a more elongated beating, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Why would Corrales need to redeem himself, he had one of the biggest hearts in boxing? And as far as a more elongated beating, I don't have any idea what fight you are referring to.

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Personally i feel that Mayweather truely did dominate Castillo on theire second meeting. On the first night i had Castillo winning and i felt outraged at what i saw as a robbery. However after the second fight i felt that Mayweather had comprohensively overcame a fighter who styl;istically was formulated to cause him problems.

I realise that Toney was a cahmpion before he met Jones and i admire Toneta s a Middleweight and super Middleweight. However his legacy will be based upon the fact that he climbed to the highest peak of boxing and competing easily at Cruiser and heavy (his calling card up there will be the Tko of Evander i guess.) He will not make Hall of Fame for his achievements in Middle and supermiddle alone. Although Personally if you gave me a choice of watching James at Cruiser or Heavy OR watching him at Middle, its an obvious choice for me.

As for the Ho[pkins Point; Bernard Hopkins although on paper was as expierienced as Jones was actually several years behind. Hopkins due to the styint in jail was less expierienced. When Jones was travelling around getting the best spars, the best training and the best fights he could as an amateur, Hopkins was behind bars attempting to work out in there. Jones had Olympic Expierience and as everybody knows wa robbed in Seoul.
This amateur expierience must not be underestimated and as a result Bernard was below the level of expierience Jones was.
Furthermore one cannot compare the Bernard Hopkins That fought Jones and the Bernard Hopkins that has become a legend. The man once beaten set about revolutionising himself, the aggresive come forward style was abandoned along with many of the body shots. He transformed himself into an extremely intelligent, ruthless and some say dirty fighting Mechanism, far from his natural style which he displayed against Jones. In short Bernard after Roy was twice the fighter that he was before Jones.

As for ur Corrales point, why would you discredit Chico and then saynthat he doesn't need to prove himself anymore ???

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

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Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in there first or second fight, in fact some people believe he even lost the first. And he didn't dominate Oscar De La Hoya either.

But Mayweather's best opponents don't come close to matching up with Roy's. Diego Corrales(R.I.P.) doesn't come anywhere near the legacy of a Bernard Hopkins or a James Toney. Toney and Hopkins are boxers who have had great success in multiple weight classes, while Corrales only found success at lightweight. And when he did try to move up he got starched by Joshua Clottey.

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True that Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in their first meeting, but everyone has their nightmare nights.
See Roy vs. Montell Griffin 1. Mayweather really did beat Castillo in the rematch.
In reply to your comment on oscar, i feel that Pbf did a good job against the naturally much much bigger Oscar. Asking Mayweather to KO Oscar would have been the equivalent of Asking Roy to Ko John Ruiz, and no way in hell was that happening.

In relation to ur comments on Toney and Hopkins. Yes these two enjoyed great success in multiple weight classes....AFTER they had been beaten by Jones.
SAying the legacy's of these respective fighters was greater than that of Corrales is easy to say but incorrect when taken in context.
Hopkins had nowhere near peaked, he had never been world champion and his legacy will be based on how he changed AFTER the Jones fight. After the jones fight he became greta. Toney was a great Middleweight but again his success was at higher weights after the loss to Jones.
Corrales had already been champ before he met Mayweather.
What use is bringing Clottey into it? Did Corrales not redeem himself enough with the Castillo fight. Would you have preferred he had taken a more elongated beating?

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Mayweather beat Castillo in their rematch but he far from dominated. If you want to use Montell Griffin as an example than see Jones Jr. vs. Griffin II. That is what domination looks like. I also disagree that asking a jr. lightweight(Floyd) to knockout a jr. middleweight(Oscar) is the same as asking a middleweight(Roy) to knockout a heavyweight(John).

Toney was a middleweight and super middleweight champ BEFORE he even fought Jones not after. And why hadn't Hopkins peaked? Besides a loss in his pro debut he was perfect until he met Jones. And after his loss to Jones, he didn't lose a fight until he fought Taylor, controversial as it was. So I don't see anything in there to indicate he peaked after he met Roy. He was a good fighter before and he was a good fighter after the Roy Jones Jr. fight. Because he loss to Jones Jr. doesn't mean he hadn't peaked it just means he faced a better fighter on that day. Jones was 21-0 and Hopkins was 22-1 when they fought, it wasn't like Hopkins was facing Jones after 5 fights.

What use is bringing Clottey into it? The Clottey fight lets you know that Corrales was a good lightweight, but that isn't comparable to say a Toney who was a good middleweight, supermiddleweight, cruiserweight, etc. As far as redeeming himself or taking a more elongated beating, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Why would Corrales need to redeem himself, he had one of the biggest hearts in boxing? And as far as a more elongated beating, I don't have any idea what fight you are referring to.

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Personally i feel that Mayweather truely did dominate Castillo on theire second meeting. On the first night i had Castillo winning and i felt outraged at what i saw as a robbery. However after the second fight i felt that Mayweather had comprohensively overcame a fighter who styl;istically was formulated to cause him problems.

I realise that Toney was a cahmpion before he met Jones and i admire Toneta s a Middleweight and super Middleweight. However his legacy will be based upon the fact that he climbed to the highest peak of boxing and competing easily at Cruiser and heavy (his calling card up there will be the Tko of Evander i guess.) He will not make Hall of Fame for his achievements in Middle and supermiddle alone. Although Personally if you gave me a choice of watching James at Cruiser or Heavy OR watching him at Middle, its an obvious choice for me.

As for the Ho[pkins Point; Bernard Hopkins although on paper was as expierienced as Jones was actually several years behind. Hopkins due to the styint in jail was less expierienced. When Jones was travelling around getting the best spars, the best training and the best fights he could as an amateur, Hopkins was behind bars attempting to work out in there. Jones had Olympic Expierience and as everybody knows wa robbed in Seoul.
This amateur expierience must not be underestimated and as a result Bernard was below the level of expierience Jones was.
Furthermore one cannot compare the Bernard Hopkins That fought Jones and the Bernard Hopkins that has become a legend. The man once beaten set about revolutionising himself, the aggresive come forward style was abandoned along with many of the body shots. He transformed himself into an extremely intelligent, ruthless and some say dirty fighting Mechanism, far from his natural style which he displayed against Jones. In short Bernard after Roy was twice the fighter that he was before Jones.

As for ur Corrales point, why would you discredit Chico and then saynthat he doesn't need to prove himself anymore ???

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I still disagree that Mayweather dominated Castillo in their rematch. Although Mayweather clearly won it, it still was a close fight.

Maybe Toney doesn't make it to the HOF on his middleweight and supermiddleweight resume, which is a debatable point, but if you were to take those away he doesn't make it in on the strength of his cruiser and heavyweight career. Toney had career-defining fights at middleweight and supermiddleweight before he even fought Jones. He already had wins over the likes of McCallum, Nunn, and Barkley.

The amateurs, in my opinion, wouldn't have helped Bernard at all. The emphasis on point scoring combined with the limited number of rounds isn't suited for Hopkins style. Amateur and professional boxing is two separate things. Thats why many boxers who have beaten fighters in the amateurs have lost to them in the pros.

And how did I discredit Corrales? I am a huge Corrales fan and I think he was a good lightweight champion, but I don't believe he is on the same level of a Bernard Hopkins or James Toney legacy wise. Thats not discrediting him or what he has accomplished. I like Kelly Pavlik to, but I don't think he has obtained the level of a Marvin Hagler or a Carlos Monzon. Maybe he will but it terms of accomplishments he isn't there yet. Corrales was a good lightweight fighter and when he tried to move up he got starched. Comparing him to a guy who was successful at middleweight, supermiddleweight, and to a lesser extent cruiserweight and heavyweight doesn't make sense to me. Thats not discrediting Corrales its just stating fact.

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by Swice

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

But consider this. Mayweather accomodating his own needs, may well be the factor that determines his legacy. As he has never been an all action fighter he longevity is less likely to be affected. He can go on another 5 years if he wants as his style allows him too. In fact it is constantly improving as the more expierience he gains the better he becomes. Compare Roy Jones' and Mayweathers careers. As Bilbo stated, they both have the ability to look magnificent when opposed by fighters who appear a class below them. However there is a large difference. Jones worked them over and Knocke them out. Mayweather dominated them for every single second of every round. He boxed their respective ears of....And thats every fight without exception.

In addition, i feel that Mayweather has indeed face the better opposition or at least performed better aginst their parallell opponents.
I mean Roy did some great things to some great fighters....B-Hop and Toney need i say more! But Strangely enough they were two fighters that Took Roy the distance, his greatest feats at middleweight his second weight division (he started at Lm).
And....strangely enough Mayweather stopped one of his best opponents, at his second weight...What he did to Corrales was jaw dropping. (I have rated Corales over Castillo here and im sure il have a knife to my throat later for saying it!)

So don't be so swift to say Roy, he was great no doubt, but i think that Mayweather is building the greater Castle of Memories and will have the larger Jacuzzi in his HoF penthouse.

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Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in there first or second fight, in fact some people believe he even lost the first. And he didn't dominate Oscar De La Hoya either.

But Mayweather's best opponents don't come close to matching up with Roy's. Diego Corrales(R.I.P.) doesn't come anywhere near the legacy of a Bernard Hopkins or a James Toney. Toney and Hopkins are boxers who have had great success in multiple weight classes, while Corrales only found success at lightweight. And when he did try to move up he got starched by Joshua Clottey.

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True that Mayweather didn't dominate Castillo in their first meeting, but everyone has their nightmare nights.
See Roy vs. Montell Griffin 1. Mayweather really did beat Castillo in the rematch.
In reply to your comment on oscar, i feel that Pbf did a good job against the naturally much much bigger Oscar. Asking Mayweather to KO Oscar would have been the equivalent of Asking Roy to Ko John Ruiz, and no way in hell was that happening.

In relation to ur comments on Toney and Hopkins. Yes these two enjoyed great success in multiple weight classes....AFTER they had been beaten by Jones.
SAying the legacy's of these respective fighters was greater than that of Corrales is easy to say but incorrect when taken in context.
Hopkins had nowhere near peaked, he had never been world champion and his legacy will be based on how he changed AFTER the Jones fight. After the jones fight he became greta. Toney was a great Middleweight but again his success was at higher weights after the loss to Jones.
Corrales had already been champ before he met Mayweather.
What use is bringing Clottey into it? Did Corrales not redeem himself enough with the Castillo fight. Would you have preferred he had taken a more elongated beating?

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Mayweather beat Castillo in their rematch but he far from dominated. If you want to use Montell Griffin as an example than see Jones Jr. vs. Griffin II. That is what domination looks like. I also disagree that asking a jr. lightweight(Floyd) to knockout a jr. middleweight(Oscar) is the same as asking a middleweight(Roy) to knockout a heavyweight(John).

Toney was a middleweight and super middleweight champ BEFORE he even fought Jones not after. And why hadn't Hopkins peaked? Besides a loss in his pro debut he was perfect until he met Jones. And after his loss to Jones, he didn't lose a fight until he fought Taylor, controversial as it was. So I don't see anything in there to indicate he peaked after he met Roy. He was a good fighter before and he was a good fighter after the Roy Jones Jr. fight. Because he loss to Jones Jr. doesn't mean he hadn't peaked it just means he faced a better fighter on that day. Jones was 21-0 and Hopkins was 22-1 when they fought, it wasn't like Hopkins was facing Jones after 5 fights.

What use is bringing Clottey into it? The Clottey fight lets you know that Corrales was a good lightweight, but that isn't comparable to say a Toney who was a good middleweight, supermiddleweight, cruiserweight, etc. As far as redeeming himself or taking a more elongated beating, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Why would Corrales need to redeem himself, he had one of the biggest hearts in boxing? And as far as a more elongated beating, I don't have any idea what fight you are referring to.

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Personally i feel that Mayweather truely did dominate Castillo on theire second meeting. On the first night i had Castillo winning and i felt outraged at what i saw as a robbery. However after the second fight i felt that Mayweather had comprohensively overcame a fighter who styl;istically was formulated to cause him problems.

I realise that Toney was a cahmpion before he met Jones and i admire Toneta s a Middleweight and super Middleweight. However his legacy will be based upon the fact that he climbed to the highest peak of boxing and competing easily at Cruiser and heavy (his calling card up there will be the Tko of Evander i guess.) He will not make Hall of Fame for his achievements in Middle and supermiddle alone. Although Personally if you gave me a choice of watching James at Cruiser or Heavy OR watching him at Middle, its an obvious choice for me.

As for the Ho[pkins Point; Bernard Hopkins although on paper was as expierienced as Jones was actually several years behind. Hopkins due to the styint in jail was less expierienced. When Jones was travelling around getting the best spars, the best training and the best fights he could as an amateur, Hopkins was behind bars attempting to work out in there. Jones had Olympic Expierience and as everybody knows wa robbed in Seoul.
This amateur expierience must not be underestimated and as a result Bernard was below the level of expierience Jones was.
Furthermore one cannot compare the Bernard Hopkins That fought Jones and the Bernard Hopkins that has become a legend. The man once beaten set about revolutionising himself, the aggresive come forward style was abandoned along with many of the body shots. He transformed himself into an extremely intelligent, ruthless and some say dirty fighting Mechanism, far from his natural style which he displayed against Jones. In short Bernard after Roy was twice the fighter that he was before Jones.

As for ur Corrales point, why would you discredit Chico and then saynthat he doesn't need to prove himself anymore ???

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I still disagree that Mayweather dominated Castillo in their rematch. Although Mayweather clearly won it, it still was a close fight.

Maybe Toney doesn't make it to the HOF on his middleweight and supermiddleweight resume, which is a debatable point, but if you were to take those away he doesn't make it in on the strength of his cruiser and heavyweight career. Toney had career-defining fights at middleweight and supermiddleweight before he even fought Jones. He already had wins over the likes of McCallum, Nunn, and Barkley.

The amateurs, in my opinion, wouldn't have helped Bernard at all. The emphasis on point scoring combined with the limited number of rounds isn't suited for Hopkins style. Amateur and professional boxing is two separate things. Thats why many boxers who have beaten fighters in the amateurs have lost to them in the pros.

And how did I discredit Corrales? I am a huge Corrales fan and I think he was a good lightweight champion, but I don't believe he is on the same level of a Bernard Hopkins or James Toney legacy wise. Thats not discrediting him or what he has accomplished. I like Kelly Pavlik to, but I don't think he has obtained the level of a Marvin Hagler or a Carlos Monzon. Maybe he will but it terms of accomplishments he isn't there yet. Corrales was a good lightweight fighter and when he tried to move up he got starched. Comparing him to a guy who was successful at middleweight, supermiddleweight, and to a lesser extent cruiserweight and heavyweight doesn't make sense to me. Thats not discrediting Corrales its just stating fact.

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A fight which was closer than the first but still a certain win for Mayweather.

I agree that Toney's HoF induction will not be based upon his resume at Cruiser or Heavy.
However i persist in my insistance that he will not be inducted as a result of his exploits at middle or supermiddle. James will be inducted as a result of his accumulative successes from middle all the way up to heavyweight, that it what is remarkable about his career, his ability to succesfully compete in weights with such as size disparity.

Your point on Hopkins reinforces my belief. Hopkins as an amateur learned a basic technique, utilised it and then changed and adapted what he had learned in the pro ranks. Although i firmly believe that he learned far more after the jones defeat and became a great fighter after his meeting with Roy.
Roy on the other hand utilised quite a similar style in the amateurs as he did in the pros, which meant virtually all of his amateur glory was trining and preparation for the proffessional game. This is the logic behind my belief that Roys much longer and more illustrious campaign as an amateur was by far more beneficial to him than B-Hops and thus accredited him with far more ring expierience.

At the point that Corrales fought Mayweather he was pretty much the equivalent of the Hopkins that fought Jones.
After Corrales fought Mayweather he continued but with the same bloody minded attackingbstyle. Hopkins after Jones altereed his mindset and style and became a wily-boxer. So i feel that the Corrales that fought Mayweather is comparable to the Hopkins that fought Jones in the sense that both fighters had enjoyed, moderate success, they were not the finished article, they both had aggresive come forward styles and threw a lot and both were in the ring with the belief that they could overvcome.