Champions Forever boys Vs late 80s and 90s heavyweights

Ive just watched the champions forever DVD again and I got thinking about how the likes of Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield and Riddick Bowe would have gone on with Heavyweights golden era of Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton and Holmes in their primes.
Personally I think that all the GOLDEN ERA boys would all have beaten all the other 4.

I agree, but i think Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis would have gave all 4 of the golden boys serious problems. Just off size alone and they both can box real well. I strongly believe both of them would have beaten Frazier and Norton. I just want to throw in a quick tournament to show who i think would come on top and try to do the match ups as evenly as possible. Correct me if anyone disagree.

Tyson vs Frazier- Tyson - Tyson vs. Norton- Tyson
Holyfield vs Norton-Norton
vs. - Muhammed Ali

Lennox vs. Foreman- Lennox - Lennox vs. Ali- Ali
Bowe vs. Ali - Ali

The golden era prevail!!!!!!!! :)

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

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Originally Posted by mayorook

I agree, but i think Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis would have gave all 4 of the golden boys serious problems. Just off size alone and they both can box real well. I strongly believe both of them would have beaten Frazier and Norton. I just want to throw in a quick tournament to show who i think would come on top and try to do the match ups as evenly as possible. Correct me if anyone disagree.

Tyson vs Frazier- Tyson - Tyson vs. Norton- Tyson
Holyfield vs Norton-Norton
vs. - Muhammed Ali

Lennox vs. Foreman- Lennox - Lennox vs. Ali- Ali
Bowe vs. Ali - Ali

The golden era prevail!!!!!!!! :)

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I totally disagree Tyson would not have been able to take Fraziers punch and would have been knocked out within 4 rounds whereas Frazier would have taken Tysons best and kept coming back like Evander did to him.
I think that Foreman would have knocked Lewis out too because for all Lennox's boxing ability when Lennox got hit hard he just couldn't recover and no-one and I mean no-one hit like Foreman.
I think if any of the modern era could have reached the final of your little tournament it would have been Evander just basically on the fact that he could take punishment and keep coming back unlike Lennox and Tyson.

Personally i think Lewis beat norton with ease , beats Frazier in a tough battle , beats Foreman 2 out of 3 , and has more than a chance with Ali

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by mayorook

I agree, but i think Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis would have gave all 4 of the golden boys serious problems. Just off size alone and they both can box real well. I strongly believe both of them would have beaten Frazier and Norton. I just want to throw in a quick tournament to show who i think would come on top and try to do the match ups as evenly as possible. Correct me if anyone disagree.

Tyson vs Frazier- Tyson - Tyson vs. Norton- Tyson
Holyfield vs Norton-Norton
vs. - Muhammed Ali

Lennox vs. Foreman- Lennox - Lennox vs. Ali- Ali
Bowe vs. Ali - Ali

The golden era prevail!!!!!!!! :)

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I totally disagree Tyson would not have been able to take Fraziers punch and would have been knocked out within 4 rounds whereas Frazier would have taken Tysons best and kept coming back like Evander did to him.
I think that Foreman would have knocked Lewis out too because for all Lennox's boxing ability when Lennox got hit hard he just couldn't recover and no-one and I mean no-one hit like Foreman.
I think if any of the modern era could have reached the final of your little tournament it would have been Evander just basically on the fact that he could take punishment and keep coming back unlike Lennox and Tyson.

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Nah mate Frazier would be no match for a prime tyson imo. Frazier couldn't take Foremans power no way could he handle Tyson's relentless early onslaughts. Tyson had the better chin, his losses came after protracted prolonged punishment, in a toe to toe brawl Tyson stops him in the early rounds imo.

Frazier couldn't control a fight like Lewis or Hoylfield, he was a come forward pressure fighter, Nobody could brawl with Tyson you needed to outsmart him and outbox him and Frazier wouldn't have been able to do that. Now Ali on the other hand would have done a number on Tyson.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

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Ali beats them all but not in convincing fashion for all of them. Ali-tyson is a win for ali but its done late in the fight by either stoppage or very lopsided scoring after the second half of the fight as the first half is very close. Ali would struggle with holyfield for the same reason he did doug jones (smaller guy from virtually a lower weight class). Ali beats lewis in a close fight simply because ali has the edge in speed and stamina while lewis probably has power stacked in his favor. Ali beats bowe, not onesided but convincingly enough.

I don't consider Norton a great heavyweight at all. He was a paper champion who never won his title in the ring. I think Lewis, Tyson, and Bowe all knock him out early. And Holyfield gets him late. Norton didn't have the chin to take there punches.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by mayorook

I agree, but i think Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis would have gave all 4 of the golden boys serious problems. Just off size alone and they both can box real well. I strongly believe both of them would have beaten Frazier and Norton. I just want to throw in a quick tournament to show who i think would come on top and try to do the match ups as evenly as possible. Correct me if anyone disagree.

Tyson vs Frazier- Tyson - Tyson vs. Norton- Tyson
Holyfield vs Norton-Norton
vs. - Muhammed Ali

Lennox vs. Foreman- Lennox - Lennox vs. Ali- Ali
Bowe vs. Ali - Ali

The golden era prevail!!!!!!!! :)

---

I totally disagree Tyson would not have been able to take Fraziers punch and would have been knocked out within 4 rounds whereas Frazier would have taken Tysons best and kept coming back like Evander did to him.
I think that Foreman would have knocked Lewis out too because for all Lennox's boxing ability when Lennox got hit hard he just couldn't recover and no-one and I mean no-one hit like Foreman.
I think if any of the modern era could have reached the final of your little tournament it would have been Evander just basically on the fact that he could take punishment and keep coming back unlike Lennox and Tyson.

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Nah mate Frazier would be no match for a prime tyson imo. Frazier couldn't take Foremans power no way could he handle Tyson's relentless early onslaughts. Tyson had the better chin, his losses came after protracted prolonged punishment, in a toe to toe brawl Tyson stops him in the early rounds imo.

Frazier couldn't control a fight like Lewis or Hoylfield, he was a come forward pressure fighter, Nobody could brawl with Tyson you needed to outsmart him and outbox him and Frazier wouldn't have been able to do that. Now Ali on the other hand would have done a number on Tyson.

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How can anyone say Tyson had a good chin? He never even got off the floor to go on and win a fight. Frazier was just too hard a man for Tyson to have a chance.

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

Champions Forever would have prevailed, but i have Lennox running really close.
For me Mike Tyson would also have been very competitive but he would have been handed a few losses due to the likes of; Ali, Foreman perhaps, Earnie Shavers.

I see Holyfield beating the Likes of Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terell, Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena but falling Short of the top due to the Unbelievable amount of talent at the time.

As for Ali, i see him just being further worshipped as a result of some more glorious victories, but like i said he'd have a tough time with Lennox.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Champions Forever would have prevailed, but i have Lennox running really close.
For me Mike Tyson would also have been very competitive but he would have been handed a few losses due to the likes of; Ali, Foreman perhaps, Earnie Shavers.

I see Holyfield beating the Likes of Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terell, Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena but falling Short of the top due to the Unbelievable amount of talent at the time.

As for Ali, i see him just being further worshipped as a result of some more glorious victories, but like i said he'd have a tough time with Lennox.

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Tyson in his prime would of destroyed Shavers imo just look what happened when Quarry swarmed Shavers in 1st round enough said.

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Champions Forever would have prevailed, but i have Lennox running really close.
For me Mike Tyson would also have been very competitive but he would have been handed a few losses due to the likes of; Ali, Foreman perhaps, Earnie Shavers.

I see Holyfield beating the Likes of Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terell, Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena but falling Short of the top due to the Unbelievable amount of talent at the time.

As for Ali, i see him just being further worshipped as a result of some more glorious victories, but like i said he'd have a tough time with Lennox.

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Tyson in his prime would of destroyed Shavers imo just look what happened when Quarry swarmed Shavers in 1st round enough said.

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Thats a valid point, as thats exactly what tyson would have done,
But Quarry was a glutton for punishment and had an ATG chin, Shavers Tyson would have been explosive and i could see mike down.
The reason im saying this is because Mike at his Prime was never knocked down...why?
Not because of his chin, but because of his Defence. So i think it would have been interesting,as shavers had decent skill as well as a truckload of power.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Champions Forever would have prevailed, but i have Lennox running really close.
For me Mike Tyson would also have been very competitive but he would have been handed a few losses due to the likes of; Ali, Foreman perhaps, Earnie Shavers.

I see Holyfield beating the Likes of Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terell, Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena but falling Short of the top due to the Unbelievable amount of talent at the time.

As for Ali, i see him just being further worshipped as a result of some more glorious victories, but like i said he'd have a tough time with Lennox.

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Tyson in his prime would of destroyed Shavers imo just look what happened when Quarry swarmed Shavers in 1st round enough said.

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Thats a valid point, as thats exactly what tyson would have done,
But Quarry was a glutton for punishment and had an ATG chin, Shavers Tyson would have been explosive and i could see mike down.
The reason im saying this is because Mike at his Prime was never knocked down...why?
Not because of his chin, but because of his Defence. So i think it would have been interesting,as shavers had decent skill as well as a truckload of power.

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Well i will put up the footage of Quarry vs Shavers and see what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Lxhkjc_aY

Beaut, nice one Ice, have it on Dvd also.
If get that programme up and running to copy some copyrighted Cd,s a might send you over a couple of the Latin fighter and Champions forever Dvd, if ya have'nt already got um.

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

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Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

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Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

---

I think they were very fair match ups.

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

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Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

---

I think they were very fair match ups.

---

OK.

Jumble them up and make them even fairer.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

---

Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

---

I think they were very fair match ups.

---

OK.

Jumble them up and make them even fairer.

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How though ?? i put very best fighters of 90s against best of 70s i didn't even mention Foreman for the 70s i think they were very fair match ups tell me what match ups you didn't think were fair ??

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

---

Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

---

I think they were very fair match ups.

---

OK.

Jumble them up and make them even fairer.

---

How though ?? i put very best fighters of 90s against best of 70s i didn't even mention Foreman for the 70s i think they were very fair match ups tell me what match ups you didn't think were fair ??

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I didn't say they weren't fair.

Why is Lenny fighting Holmes? Put Lenny against Joe and Holy against Larry etc..........

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

---

Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

---

I think they were very fair match ups.

---

OK.

Jumble them up and make them even fairer.

---

How though ?? i put very best fighters of 90s against best of 70s i didn't even mention Foreman for the 70s i think they were very fair match ups tell me what match ups you didn't think were fair ??

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I didn't say they weren't fair.

Why is Lenny fighting Holmes? Put Lenny against Joe and Holy against Larry etc..........

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Because they both had good jabs both tall men i think that was a fair match up.

Frazier vs Lewis is not a fair match up Lewis was much too big for Frazier in height and weight that would be a mismatch.

Holyfield vs Holmes no doubt in my mind Holmes would win at 42 Holmes almost beat a prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield and Holmes really come on strong in last 3 rounds a prime Holmes would beat Holyfield by convincing UD imo.

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Ok so we are doing 70s vs 90s right ??


Larry Holmes vs Lennox Lewis = Holmes by decision he would outjab Lewis remember Lewis did not do so well with fighters with good jabs aka Mercer aka Bruno.

Joe Frazier vs Mike Tyson = 1971 version of Frazier would beat the fading Tyson of the 90s by TKO late.

Muhammad Ali vs Riddick Bowe = Bowe did struggle with outside fighters an old shot Tony Tubbs on downslide of his career gave Bowe all he could handle i think Ali wins tough decision.

Ken Norton vs Evander Holyfield = Holyfield by split decision.

Earnie Shavers vs Razor Ruddock = Two bombers going at it both men would be dropped in a wild slugfest then Ruddock stays down for the count in the 3rd.

Ron Lyle vs David Tua = A wild slugfest with Tua winning by TKO in the 10th Lyle did always fade in later stages and Tua was a good late finisher see Izon fight.

Jimmy Young vs Ike Ibeabuchi = A prime Jimmy Young would frustrate Ike Ibeabuchi like Chris Byrd was doing and win a tough decision Young took Foreman's best shots and comeback and hit Foreman and staggered him but he made Foreman miss a hell of alot and he would do the same with Ibeabuchi remember how frustrated Byrd made Ibeabuchi in there fight and a prime Young had a solid chin.


I have the 70s winning 5-2.

---

Why pick those match-ups?

Jumble them round and the 90s boys could win it.

For example - Tua-Ali = Tua brutal KO in 1 minute etc......

---

I think they were very fair match ups.

---

OK.

Jumble them up and make them even fairer.

---

How though ?? i put very best fighters of 90s against best of 70s i didn't even mention Foreman for the 70s i think they were very fair match ups tell me what match ups you didn't think were fair ??

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I didn't say they weren't fair.

Why is Lenny fighting Holmes? Put Lenny against Joe and Holy against Larry etc..........

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Because they both had good jabs both tall men i think that was a fair match up.

Frazier vs Lewis is not a fair match up Lewis was much too big for Frazier in height and weight that would be a mismatch.

Holyfield vs Holmes no doubt in my mind Holmes would win at 42 Holmes almost beat a prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 and for Holyfield and Holmes really come on strong in last 3 rounds a prime Holmes would beat Holyfield by convincing UD imo.

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Oh you was trying to make even match-ups? Fair enough then. ;)

No one's ever going to agree on which match-ups would be the fairest

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

---

Was it you who posted that article a while back that talked about Tyson being scared to fight Foreman, even OLD Foreman? I wish I had saved a link to it. Basically it talking about how Tyson knew that Foreman was the worst nightmare for any swarmer and wanted no part of even an old George. I gotta agree. Matchups make fights and I don't think there is a swarmer that has ever lived who could beat Foreman. Too much raw strenght and 1-punch power.

Speaking of swarmers...Tyson, Frazier (edit - originally I wrote Foreman, but I meant Frazier, and Marciano ----are those those the best three HW swarmers of all time? Anyone else even close?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

---

Was it you who posted that article a while back that talked about Tyson being scared to fight Foreman, even OLD Foreman? I wish I had saved a link to it. Basically it talking about how Tyson knew that Foreman was the worst nightmare for any swarmer and wanted no part of even an old George. I gotta agree. Matchups make fights and I don't think there is a swarmer that has ever lived who could beat Foreman. Too much raw strenght and 1-punch power.

Speaking of swarmers...Tyson, Foreman, and Marciano ----are those those the best three HW swarmers of all time? Anyone else even close?

---

Joe Louis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

---

Was it you who posted that article a while back that talked about Tyson being scared to fight Foreman, even OLD Foreman? I wish I had saved a link to it. Basically it talking about how Tyson knew that Foreman was the worst nightmare for any swarmer and wanted no part of even an old George. I gotta agree. Matchups make fights and I don't think there is a swarmer that has ever lived who could beat Foreman. Too much raw strenght and 1-punch power.

Speaking of swarmers...Tyson, Foreman, and Marciano ----are those those the best three HW swarmers of all time? Anyone else even close?

---

Peter McNeely ;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

---

Was it you who posted that article a while back that talked about Tyson being scared to fight Foreman, even OLD Foreman? I wish I had saved a link to it. Basically it talking about how Tyson knew that Foreman was the worst nightmare for any swarmer and wanted no part of even an old George. I gotta agree. Matchups make fights and I don't think there is a swarmer that has ever lived who could beat Foreman. Too much raw strenght and 1-punch power.

Speaking of swarmers...Tyson, Foreman, and Marciano ----are those those the best three HW swarmers of all time? Anyone else even close?

---

Joe Louis

---

I would consider Joe Louis a Boxer-Puncher, but going back to that era, I guess Dempsey could be considered one of the top swarmers of all-time. I've only seen a few of his fights, and if I recall correctly, Dempsey used a swarming, bully style.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

---

Was it you who posted that article a while back that talked about Tyson being scared to fight Foreman, even OLD Foreman? I wish I had saved a link to it. Basically it talking about how Tyson knew that Foreman was the worst nightmare for any swarmer and wanted no part of even an old George. I gotta agree. Matchups make fights and I don't think there is a swarmer that has ever lived who could beat Foreman. Too much raw strenght and 1-punch power.

Speaking of swarmers...Tyson, Foreman, and Marciano ----are those those the best three HW swarmers of all time? Anyone else even close?

---

Peter McNeely ;D

---

LMAO. CC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeanE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

You know although I definitely have ideas about where each ranks on a p4p basis and would rate most of the champions forever guys higher, although Holmes would be in in place of Norton, if two of either era met in the rank, man I really don't know who would win.

Ali is the best heavyweight ever no question, but faced with Lennox Lewis, who was almost as skilful a boxer than him with the advantage of size and a longer jab I really don't know who would win.

Lennox's only defeat came when he was underprepared against non threats and was caught with a punch, a la Ali Cooper. He didn't have the chin that Ali had though, but like Ali against genuine opposition, Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Tucker and early in his career against Gary Mason for example, in the big important fights he excelled.

Against Ali he would have been in the best condition mentally and physically of his life and so his two losses to weak opposition would be irrelevent.

It would be a pick'em fight, and maybe I'd lean towards Lewis even.

Likewise Hoylfield in his best would have taken Ali to the very brink, although I think Formean would overpower him.

I think Ali would have done a highlight reel job on Mike Tyson though, whilst I'd imagine Tyson would tear Norton apart and dimsantle Frazier.

Him and Foreman, I'd go with Big George.

George is one my top 4 heavies of all time but the young George I believe would have been taken apart by Lennox Lewis, although he'd have been too strong for Holyfield.

For the record Norton for me loses to Lewis and Tyson by KO. Him and Holyfield is a war though.

---

Was it you who posted that article a while back that talked about Tyson being scared to fight Foreman, even OLD Foreman? I wish I had saved a link to it. Basically it talking about how Tyson knew that Foreman was the worst nightmare for any swarmer and wanted no part of even an old George. I gotta agree. Matchups make fights and I don't think there is a swarmer that has ever lived who could beat Foreman. Too much raw strenght and 1-punch power.

Speaking of swarmers...Tyson, Foreman, and Marciano ----are those those the best three HW swarmers of all time? Anyone else even close?

---

Joe Louis

---

I would consider Joe Louis a Boxer-Puncher, but going back to that era, I guess Dempsey could be considered one of the top swarmers of all-time. I've only seen a few of his fights, and if I recall correctly, Dempsey used a swarming, bully style.

---

I guess you could include Frazier to that list.


LMAO. CC.

:coolclick: back ;)

Opps. I meant Frazier but typed Foreman. I'll edit the post.

Ok i saw someone predicting David Tua to Ko Ali in the first round :(

Muhammad Ali went his entire career only being stopped once, and even then it was against his will and a retirement rather than an Actual Ko.
He had his jaw broken on at least 2 occasions against Frazier and Norton and refused to concede defeat. Please whoever posted that....leave it, you've upset me badly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Ok i saw someone predicting David Tua to Ko Ali in the first round :(

Muhammad Ali went his entire career only being stopped once, and even then it was against his will and a retirement rather than an Actual Ko.
He had his jaw broken on at least 2 occasions against Frazier and Norton and refused to concede defeat. Please whoever posted that....leave it, you've upset me badly.

---

What clown posted that? Chump should be kicked off this forum for such a foolish post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Ok i saw someone predicting David Tua to Ko Ali in the first round :(

Muhammad Ali went his entire career only being stopped once, and even then it was against his will and a retirement rather than an Actual Ko.
He had his jaw broken on at least 2 occasions against Frazier and Norton and refused to concede defeat. Please whoever posted that....leave it, you've upset me badly.

---

What clown posted that? Chump should be kicked off this forum for such a foolish post

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I thinkmit was Fenster :-[

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Ok i saw someone predicting David Tua to Ko Ali in the first round :(

Muhammad Ali went his entire career only being stopped once, and even then it was against his will and a retirement rather than an Actual Ko.
He had his jaw broken on at least 2 occasions against Frazier and Norton and refused to concede defeat. Please whoever posted that....leave it, you've upset me badly.

---

What clown posted that? Chump should be kicked off this forum for such a foolish post

---

I thinkmit was Fenster :-[

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Can you prove to me Tua couldn't of KO Ali in 1 round?

Fenster, Ali was pretty much the most skilled heavyweight ever to grace the ring.
He survived against MURDEOUS puinchers such as Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Shavers, Lyle, young and Bonavena. They were all unbelievable Punchers! None of them could knock hime out!

He also went in against great Heavyweight technicians who could punch, such as Floyd Patterson, Larry Holmes and Ken Norton none of whom could KO him.

Ali has a chin which rates up there alongside Haglers.

Ali soaked up punishment when he wanted too, avoided it when he needed too and administered it as he wished too.

So, so true.

What happened when Tua fought Ali?

What happened when Lennox Lewis Boxed Tua?
Or what happened when he boxed Chris Byrd?
He was outpointed and UD'd.

You said my post was "so, so true." That translates to your agreement with my initial statement;
"Ali was pretty much the most skilled heavyweight ever to grace the ring."

If Chris Byrd outboxed Tua, Lennox Lewis Dominated and intimidated him and even Hasim Rahman held him to a draw, what would one of the greatest boxers of all time done to him, keeping in mind Ali had a granite chin and iron resolve.

Furthermore Ali's footwork would have kept him at least 2 steps ahead of Tua at all times, making it difficult to catch him, So tua would be lunging and swinging all night. And if he did land it was on Ali: never KO'D

I know, I know

But what happened when Tua fought Ali?

I was just making an outlandish throwaway comment, Donny. ;)

Remember it's just a fantasy match-up. There is no right or wrong. Tua wouldn't have a hope in hells against Ali but.. we will never know.

Fair enough no prob at all Fenster :)