Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.

Jt Rock (Champion) vs. DaxxKahn.

Post only Welcome from:
Bilbo, Julius Rain (El Gamo, ICb TBA)Judges. Hitman Donny (MMWC representative)

1)12 Posts each (as rounds.)
2)No assault on the other posters Character.
3)Points may be deducted after debate finishes. Judges; El Gamo, ICB and TBA
4)Winner will walk away with the MMWC HW and Flyweight Title.
5)Start time at the Champions (Bilbo's) discretion. (1pm east coast usa.)
5)All other communication by PM.
6)Subject will be revealed before debate begins
7) Judges must withold comment until after the debate.

Only one title can be held at a time so one must be vacated upon victory and receipt of the second.

LMFAO@the rules!! HW-Flyweight unification?!! 1belt at a time? This is as legit as the WBC/BA/BF.DE etc!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Jt Rock (Champion) vs. DaxxKahn.

Post only Welcome from:
Bilbo, Julius Rain (El Gamo, ICb TBA)Judges. Hitman Donny (MMWC representative)

1)12 Posts each (as rounds.)
2)No assault on the other posters Character.
3)Points may be deducted after debate finishes. Judges; El Gamo, ICB and TBA
4)Winner will walk away with the MMWC HW and Flyweight Title.
5)Start time at the Champions (Bilbo's) discretion. (1pm east coast usa.)
5)All other communication by PM.
6)Subject will be revealed before debate begins
7) Judges must withold comment until after the debate.

Only one title can be held at a time so one must be vacated upon victory and receipt of the second.

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Damn, witty putdowns and sarcastic below the belt jibes were the central pillars that I was going to build my arguments around :cwm25:

I don't know, take away sarcasm and personal insults from the hobbit's arsenal and he doesn't have a lot left. :dontknow:

You've basically banned my entire offensive arsenal. :cwm36:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

LMFAO@the rules!! HW-Flyweight unification?!! 1belt at a time? This is as legit as the WBC/BA/BF.DE etc!!

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I provide a service which meets a demand, il be damned if i can understand it sometimes but...

I've warned EG already in another thread regarding Bilbo's possible tactics. LOL. I'll be watching this debate closely coz I'd like to fight Bilbo some time. Got to fight the best and the brightest.


I've promised myself to crush Bilbo in the future. hehehe. Watch your back Bilbo coz I will put you to sleep with a bat and I just can't imagine how I'd torture you.Mwahahaha. :beatdeadhorse: :deadnew:

Erm ok so the champ is here, but it's not looking good for Julius, where is he?

im here now, lets get it on.

The topic is, which current division heavyweight or flyweight is better right?

so should I go first?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Jt Rock (Champion) vs. DaxxKahn.

Post only Welcome from:
Bilbo, Julius Rain (El Gamo, ICb TBA)Judges. Hitman Donny (MMWC representative)

1)12 Posts each (as rounds.)
2)No assault on the other posters Character.
3)Points may be deducted after debate finishes. Judges; El Gamo, ICB and TBA
4)Winner will walk away with the MMWC HW and Flyweight Title.
5)Start time at the Champions (Bilbo's) discretion. (1pm east coast usa.)
5)All other communication by PM.
6)Subject will be revealed before debate begins
7) Judges must withold comment until after the debate.

Only one title can be held at a time so one must be vacated upon victory and receipt of the second.

---

Damn, witty putdowns and sarcastic below the belt jibes were the central pillars that I was going to build my arguments around :cwm25:

I don't know, take away sarcasm and personal insults from the hobbit's arsenal and he doesn't have a lot left. :dontknow:

You've basically banned my entire offensive arsenal. :cwm36:

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come on bilbo its the pro debate, since u say so then your pretty much screwd. I didn't need the advantage but yea ur chances just went down the drain ;D

No worries, I'm going to be polite courteous and respectful throughout and prove I can win on pure debating skills alone.

To that end, I'll be ever the gentleman and say, ladies first, Julie feel free to start. :)

Round 1:

Recently we just had the peter mccline fight although I won't pretend that we have great heavyweights at this current era. We still do get a lot more excited, seeing two heavy hitters go at it. I brought up the peter mccline first becuase in that fight we expected peter to be the one with the iron chin and stronger punch but mccline expose peter, dropping him 3 times in exciting fasion. Peter went on to survive and win the decision but nevertheless we were given a exciting heavyweight match, it even had more action then the pac-mab 2.

Although, one of my favorite fighter right now (nonito"filipino flash" donaire) just k.o'ed the biggest prick vic darchinian in the flyweight division, the heavyweights still do get more attention and produce a lot more excitement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

Round 1:

Recently we just had the peter mccline fight although I won't pretend that we have great heavyweights at this current era. We still do get a lot more excited, seeing two heavy hitters go at it. I brought up the peter mccline first becuase in that fight we expected peter to be the one with the iron chin and stronger punch but mccline expose peter, dropping him 3 times in exciting fasion. Peter went on to survive and win the decision but nevertheless we were given a exciting heavyweight match, it even had more action then the pac-mab 2.

Although, one of my favorite fighter right now (nonito"filipino flash" donaire) just k.o'ed the biggest prick vic darchinian in the flyweight division, the heavyweights still do get more attention and produce a lot more excitement.

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Wlad is an all time great (post emmanuel steward)..................




He just doesn't have the competition to prove it ;)

Round 1. Bilbo's Post

It is my belief that the flyweight division currently produces more excitement and drama than do the plodders and jobbers making up our once elite and glorious heavyweight division.

It seems that even Julius himself would rather talk about the flyweights as he was unable to resist exclaiming how Nonito Donaire, the Filipino Flash, and one of Rain's favourite fighters no less scored an exciting and devastating KO over the much vaunted big punching little guy Vic Darchinyan.

Of course Bilbo is in complete agreement!

Anyway back to the main contention of Bilbo's argument. I believe currently the flyweight divisions are producing more excitement, drama, competition, quality fights, top class boxing and perhaps suprisingly big KO's than the heavyweights do at this present time.

Over the course of this debate I will attempt to provide justifcation for all of my claims. I will start in this post by examining more closely Rain's assertion that the heavyweights still get more attention and produce more excitement, a statement that I believe is false.

First off I will agree with Rains, that traditionally the hevayweight division has been seen as the glamour division, anc certainly in the minds of the casual sports fan, dimly aware of any stars beyond the names of Tyson, Hoylfield, Ali and Foreman this may well always prove to be the case.

However for the educated boxing fan, the idea of the heavyweight division being preeminent in our sport has long since gone out of the window. This much can be demonstrated most fully perhaps by examining the fights and fighters that the most illustrious boxing channel in the world HBO decides to broadcast.

HBO is to many people the face of boxing, they have broadcast almost all of the greatest fights of the last 30 years and beyond and it's certainly intruiging to note that these days their own focus has been very much in the lighter weight divisions.

If you want to see punchers on HBO it's certainly not to the heavyweights that you would look, but rather the exciting little guys, the ever popular Jorge Arce, the powerful and menacing Vic Darchinyan, the popular but recently humbled Brian Viloria.

Suprisingly these guys though have all been exposed in the ring thus bringing to our attention some of the best tacticians and skilled boxers in the entire sport, emerging stars like Christian Mijares and Nonito Donaire who have shown that the little guys can possess skill and talent in abundance.

And recently we saw perhaps the greatest example of speed and skills overcoming size and strength when the tiny Ivan Calderon put on a masterful display to outpoint the big punching Hugo Cazares and stamp his own name in dramatic fashion amongst the best of the flyweight divisions.

It is important to note that for the informed boxing fan these fights were as much essential viewing as any fights in the heavyweight division.

A belief that the boxing spotlight still shines most brightly upon the heavyweight division is sadly about as misguided as the belief that Evander Holyfield has that he will still be champion of the world again. :-\

Round 2: Julius "Marvelous" Rain came out of the first round just testing the waters.....here he tunes up the pace just a bit.

vic, arce and viloria are the three guys you named in the flyweight division that were so called big names, but thanks for pointing out they all have been defeated by lesser names yet better fighters.

Both vic and arce are not exactly fan favorites. Arce is 50/50, with his overly obvious to be popular but always get the shorter end of the show. For example, he rides a hourse to a ring, suppose to look like the horse is dancing and its suppose to be exciting but it turns out to look boring and a dissapointing after arce overly hyped his ring entrance and worst of all mr. suppose to be exciting gets shut down by a technician mijares.

Bilbo I won't disagree with you about good boxers in the flyweight division becuase I dont' have to, we are debating which division produce more excitement. And so far the three guys you name that are suppose to be exciting have all been knock off or shut down by less exciting but better boxers.

Brian Viloria, coming off the olympics this flyweight was dubbed as the strongest puncher in a class out of Jermain "bad intention" Taylor and jeff "lion heart" lacy. Brian delivered and prove the lable of him as a huge puncher was true after he won the flyweight title in the under card of pac-velazquez fight in a brutal 1st round knock out of then champion eric ortiz. After that it was downhill for brains once promising career, it began with jose antonio aguirre. Although he beat jose in a 12 round decision, it showed signs of the slowing down of brians career. Omar Nino Romero, then out points viloria in his next fight and from there on, brian viloria hasn't won a fight. Edgar Sosa and Omar Nino isnt going to be big names as Brians Viloria was once suppose to be.

Bilbo's chances of convincing the judges the flyweight division is a lot more exciting died off with brian vilorias downhill career.

Ivan Calderon, although he posses boxing skills he can't produce the lust for knock outs fight fans grave and the flyweight division need more of. The only way the flyweight can get the attention of other fight fans beside the pure boxing fans is to produce a lot more knock outs. Darchinyan, Arce and Viloria once produce those knock outs but even then it wasn't enough. We can't look to mijares his a pure boxer, and Nonito? maybe but his more likely to be moving up out of the FLYWEIGHT DIVISION. Which leaves nobdy in the flyweight to current grasp more fans attention.

IN the Heavyweights, we atleast have wladimir Klitschko. A improving champion that has been producing knock outs after knock outs lately. His not exactly the russian Ivan Drago we all have grave to see step into a real boxing ring but Wlady has been getting the job done via impressive knock outs. Anybody can admit, when a wladimir klitschko fight is on we tune in.

he has stack up 4 straight k.o's in less than 8 rounds.

Lemon Brewster in 6
Ray Austin in 2
Calvin Brock in 7
Chris Byrd in 7

And the Return of his brother vitaly if it does happen will increase drama in the heavyweights. We don't always have great heavyweights against great heavyweights but there is always drama in the heavyweight divisions. And drama equals excitement.

Bilbo's Round 2 Post.

Before I get onto the next phase of my debate I need first to correct your misunderstanding regarding the defeats of Arce, Viloria and Darchinyan. Far from deflating the drama in the flyweight division the emergence of these slick tactician's has merely added to the flyweight talent pool.

Jorge Arce was soundly beaten by Christian Mijares it is true, but it heralded the birth of an exciting new fighter, not the death of an old one. Arce's career continues to grow strong and Mijares is a very highly regarded potential big name star for the future.

I won't extrapolate further to include the defeats of Viloria and Darchinyan, the merits of individual fighters isn't what's being debated here, rather the excitement factor that the division brings.

Suffice to say though that Darchinyan's defeat, in what has been considered to have been one of the knockout's of the year heralded the rise of another slick boxer puncher and gave a further boost to an already growing division.

Regarding your personal preference of distate towards Arce's ring entrances again you have completely missed the point. The issue isn't whether you personally like him but rather if fighters like Arce are helping to bolster interest in the little guys. The very fact that HBO want to screen his fights and ring entrances, riding in on a horse or a harley just highlights the obvious demand from fight fans to see something different and fresh.

Regarding the competition levels within the heavyweight and flyweight divisions this really is a no brainer. In this post I'll just examine the heavyweight scene and contrast it with the flyweights in my next post.


It is a terrible indictement for the heavyweight division that only it's recognised best fighter Wladimir Klitschko even has a contract with HBO. There is barely any interest from the major networks in the heavyweight division at present.

The heavyweight division is in terrible shape right now. There are barely a handful of guys who have any credibility whatsoever. Wladimir Klitschko is far and away the best fighter in the division yet his status is suspect to virtually all boxing fans and writers alike. I won't get into his high profile KO defeats, it's not relevant regarding excitiment but his jab heavy style has won few boxing fans around the world, most of whom still cry out in a vain hope for Lennox Lewis to return.

Wladimir's recent outings have been wholly uninspiring affairs. His mismatch win over Ray Austin is a fight that shouls never have been made, and his rematch with Lamon Brewster was a torrid viewing experience.

As for the other 'champions', they don't even get televised at all by the major networks. You cannot get a sadder indicement regarding the current state of the heavyweight division than the fact none of the other champions are deemed worthy to be screened by boxing's premier coverage network.

This is really no suprise, with the average age of the current heavyweights being in the mid thirties, with many approaching their 40's and even beyond it's hard to muster much excitement.

As for the younger guys, suppsoedly in their 'primes', well they are considered so poor by fighters from the previous generation that most of them have decided to come back!

That Evander Holyfield almost 45 years of age, who had been banned from boxing due to heart problems and a series of poor performances could mount a comeback that would see him fight for another title this year says more about the abilities of the current lot than any amount of debating ever could.

It's also completely tragic that this title fight wasn't picked up by a major network and instead had to sell itself as a PPV.

Holyfield is not alone in believing he can still achieve success amonsgt the plodders of the current heavyweight scene.

Michael Moorer, Oliver McCall, David Tua and Henry Akinwande all continue to fight on, McCall losing out yeserday in another world title elimanator. If he would have won, and he almost knocked out his opponent in the 10th round, he would have fought for another world title 10 years after losing his last one.

David Tua, who wasn't good enough in his prime to make the championship grade will probably get his chance in 2008 also. Whether it will be televised or not is probably uncertain!

In fact the return of these oldies is probably one of the reasons why HBO have since focused their attention on the lower weights. They want to bring new and exciting boxing to the fans, and clearly the fans don't see it in the heavyweight division.

And why would they? Who wants to see the same fighters you watched a decade ago still fighting now, well past their primes? If you subscribed to SKy Movies or a premium cable movie channel and they were still showing the same films 10 years from now would you cancel your subscription with them? Hell yeah, and that's what HBO and boxing fans have done.

In my next round I'll look at the flyweights.

Still waiting for your reply Rain cmon man it's the third round?

You coming out for it or not?

Where has the heavyweight champion gone?

I'm looking for Jul Rain, anyone seen him? Jul Rain, hey JULIUS RAIN!!!

I'M NOT DONE WITH YOU YET :bat:

What's the fight look like from ring side, Violent D?

Well Rains when down hard at the end of the second round. He got up wobbly on unsteady legs. He went to the wrong corner before being instructed to the proper corner. He's sitting on his stool with his head down. It seriously look like he's thinking of not coming out.

It would appear that the heavyweight champ is not going to come out for the third round :-\

Is there a time limit on this thing?

I can't believe this has got to go 12 rounds, it's taken two days already and we havn't started the third yet :o

At this rate we'll still be debating this in the run up to Christmas :(

Round 3: Julius Rain, comes out punishing bilbo. how will he respond? hopefully not another attempt to make v.d feel secure and happy he won't have to take on Mr. Marvelous himself, julius rain ;)

This is not even comparable really, lets list the fighters in the flyweight division.

Calderon
Mijares
Nonito
Darchinyan
Arce

We can put all of those guys against eachother in one card but will never be as anticipated as a heavyweight bout between any of these names:

Wladimir
Oleg
Briggs
Valuev
James
Tua

Fans may say many heavyweights are old and past it, but honestly who wouldn't still want to see a fight between james toney versus david tua? that alone beats the best possible bout in the flyweight which is Donaire versus Mijares. Who wouldn't want to see if david tua can knock the fat out of james toney? Who wouldn't tune in on james toney's post or pre fight interviews.

There are alot more fighters and fights that are marketable in the heavyweight division. The only way the lower weight classes can bring more attention on them is by wins via knock outs. Just like how Prince Hamed gave some light to the featherweight division when he was hyped up to be a knock out artist. But them days are gone, breeding big punchers slash brawlers such as darchinyan or arce whom have been beaten and expose by better boxer but lesser excitement value. Purist boxing fans, would appreciate the talent of these boxers such as mijares. but the flyweights need a bright star that can put butts on seats.

Theres no flyweight fight that can produce a greatly anticipated pay per view fight. The heavyweight division can still sell its self but the flyweight division can only hope for a star to rise but that is unlikely becuase if a star does emerge, he'll need to be delivering excitement after excitement. Theres nothing more exciting then knock outs in boxing, weather us purist fans admit it or not. Purist fan can appreciate a boxing talent when its displayed, but majority of fight fans are not purist fans they are hardcore who seaks knock outs. The only way flyweight division can successful bring its fighters into light is to have more drama more action and more fighters. Without looking at the rankings I bet Bilbo can't even name more then five flyweights. And I bet he can name twice as much heavyweights, that alone proves how much exciting heavyweight is to him becuase even though we don't currently have a great heavyweight we still do follow whats going on in the division. Most of fans don't follow the flyweight division, and thats the truth becuause the little guys are the undercard of heavyweight events. When we watch a fight live most of us don't even arrive early enough to see the flyweights on the undercard. Majority of the fans don't pay attention to that division.

Look at the many heavyweight bouts we could have:

wladimir versus briggs
wladimir versus valuev
oleg versus liakhovich
peter versus tua
tua versus toney
sultan versus peter
valuev versus tua
valuev versus peter

those are just examples, imagine a showdown between valuev and wladimir. Call it a circus but who wouldn't want to see that happend? theres nothing more exciting then a giant fight, people love giants, people will buy to see giants specially in boxing gloves. This fight is more marketable then any flyweight fight in history. And throughout history people pay to see unusually big humans. Even the average joe whom never witness the sweet science will buy into this event.

there is no match or fighter in the flyweight division that can be big enough to stage big events. ivan calderon can't produce enough action or more than 10 knock outs. Nonito Donaire is still under 20 fights and already has expose the once hype darchinyan, Mijares a good talent but can we honestly say Mijares will headline a big boxing event? he just shutdown the other hype big mouth flyweight fighter from the big brother show arce.

Who can produce excitement bilbo in the flyweight? is there any match that can be made that can sell as a huge pay per view event?

Bilbo's post Round 3.

I was going to use this round to expand some more on some of the exciting flyweights coming into the fight fans consciousness and I will get to that but firstly let me offer my response to your own posting.

You have me confused when you say the following 'This is not even comparable really'. You then list the most exciting fighters in the flyweight division, although you ommitted the ultra exciting super flyweight Fernando Montiel who was involved in one of the most exciting fights of the year last time out.

You then listed Shannon Briggs, Nikolay Valuev, Oleg Maskeav, Toneyand Tua ???

I find myself asking if this is some kind of a joke? I'm being totally serious ???

I can't remember in the entire history of boxing (Ruiz being the exception) when by popular consensus champions like Briggs and Maskaev are considered the weakest in the entire history of the sport. Since when have there fights been exciting? Granted they produce a certain comedic appeal and I too laughed when both the hapless Hasim Rahman and the slightly less crappy but still crappy Sergei Lyakhovich got knocked clean out of the ring in their fights with Briggs and Maskaev but it was laughter and disbelief rather than excitement.

If you can honestly say that you enjoy watching Shannon Briggs plod and wheeze his way through 12 of the most uneventful in boxing history then fair play to you. :D

You mention Toney, and I know why as he's the only 'heavyeight' with any skills but he's currently banned for steroid abuse and has looked a shell of his former self recently

As for the rest of your mostly retarded post let me just pick apart the main points.

Who wouldn't want to see a fight between Toney and Tua? Probably most fans who would just dearly love to see James Toney retire.

As for the heavyweight division being more marketable, it's the premiere division in boxing and supposedly one of the most illustrious of all sporting leagues. Of course the average fan is more aware of the heavyweights it would take probably 20 years of no heavyweights for the shift to be made to the lighter divisions in the consciousness of the casual fan.

To use an example the Catholic Church still numbers 2 billion adherents and is seemingly a massive organisation but how many of those Catholics still really believe their religion?

The faith has by and large long since left but the organisation remains.

Likewise the heavyweight division will remain the flagship division in the minds of the casual fan irrespective of whether anybody worthy is actually fighting in that division or not, those type of seismic shifts take years to occur.

You make an interesting point about nobody staging big flyweight events, well I can tell straight away from that statement that you are an American ;)

Dimly aware that other countries to your own actually exist on this earth it may suprise you that not every nation has a 50% obesity rate with most American children weighing more than the average adult male of a 100 years ago. I may be exaggerating slightly but you get my point.

Not every nation has a diet of McDonalds Burgers, French Fries and Cola and they actually weigh a lot less as a result.

In Asia and South America where the average height and bodyweight is much lower than the states these fights ARE big business.

Your post merely reflects your own ethnocentric narrow minded ignorant bias.

As for the rest of your post you yourself seem to be apologetic about your claims. Who wouldn't want to see Wlad vs Valuev you say? You then say everyone loves giants and that it would be a great circus event? ???

Is that what the heavyweight division has been reducued to? Cheap novelty acts in place of the former great bouts between true pugilistic greats such as Ali, Formean, Luis, Dempsey and Marciano?

Quite honestly you can stick your circus clowns, loud mouthed fatties and ape like giants, I'm a boxing fan not a Ringling Brothers or Barnum and Bailey circus groupie.

I want to watch exciting fights, with skills, speed, technical flair and drama.

I don't want to watch Big Foot and the Hendersons, so I'll stick to the flyweights thankyou very much :)

Ringside report

Commentator: Your opinion on how the fight is going, champ?

Violent Demise: This fight is turning into a rout. Rains is taking a beating. Bilbo has come out with facts and reasons why the flyweight division is more exciting. Rains is staying with the same losing game plan. "There bigger so that makes them more exciting." And he's not winning. Rains need to adjust now, for him to have any chance of winning.

Commentator: Excellent points, champ. Any personal choice on who you want to see win?

Violent Demise: I don't give a fuck. There both clowns to me. Got no love for either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Ringside report

Commentator: Your opinion on how the fight is going, champ?

Violent Demise: This fight is turning into a rout. Rains is taking a beating. Bilbo has come out with facts and reasons why the flyweight division is more exciting. Rains is staying with the same losing game plan. "There bigger so that makes them more exciting." And he's not winning. Rains need to adjust now, for him to have any chance of winning.

Commentator: Excellent points, champ. Any personal choice on who you want to see win?

Violent Demise: I don't give a F***. There both clowns to me. Got no love for either.

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Cheers for the 'support' tough guy :thumb:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Ringside report

Commentator: Your opinion on how the fight is going, champ?

Violent Demise: This fight is turning into a rout. Rains is taking a beating. Bilbo has come out with facts and reasons why the flyweight division is more exciting. Rains is staying with the same losing game plan. "There bigger so that makes them more exciting." And he's not winning. Rains need to adjust now, for him to have any chance of winning.

Commentator: Excellent points, champ. Any personal choice on who you want to see win?

Violent Demise: I don't give a F***. There both clowns to me. Got no love for either.

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Cheers for the 'support' tough guy :thumb:

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No support. Just calling it like I see it. Watch Rains think otherwise. That boy is so predictable

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Ringside report

Commentator: Your opinion on how the fight is going, champ?

Violent Demise: This fight is turning into a rout. Rains is taking a beating. Bilbo has come out with facts and reasons why the flyweight division is more exciting. Rains is staying with the same losing game plan. "There bigger so that makes them more exciting." And he's not winning. Rains need to adjust now, for him to have any chance of winning.

Commentator: Excellent points, champ. Any personal choice on who you want to see win?

Violent Demise: I don't give a F***. There both clowns to me. Got no love for either.

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Cheers for the 'support' tough guy :thumb:

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No support. Just calling it like I see it. Watch Rains think otherwise. That boy is so predictable

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To be fair only a fool could see Rains winning this, so he probably thinks he doing great.

Obviously I can't second guess the judges but I'd say there's been a couple 10-8 rounds now surely.

Hopefully the ref will soon think about stopping this one?


Are you still going to debate him after this? He hardly seems worthy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Ringside report

Commentator: Your opinion on how the fight is going, champ?

Violent Demise: This fight is turning into a rout. Rains is taking a beating. Bilbo has come out with facts and reasons why the flyweight division is more exciting. Rains is staying with the same losing game plan. "There bigger so that makes them more exciting." And he's not winning. Rains need to adjust now, for him to have any chance of winning.

Commentator: Excellent points, champ. Any personal choice on who you want to see win?

Violent Demise: I don't give a F***. There both clowns to me. Got no love for either.

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Cheers for the 'support' tough guy :thumb:

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No support. Just calling it like I see it. Watch Rains think otherwise. That boy is so predictable

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To be fair only a fool could see Rains winning this, so he probably thinks he doing great.

Obviously I can't second guess the judges but I'd say there's been a couple 10-8 rounds now surely.

Hopefully the ref will soon think about stopping this one?


Are you still going to debate him after this? He hardly seems worthy?

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He was never worthy. But in his head he think he is. Foolish kid. I'll debate him anyway, if he really wants the punishment. I haven't had a tune-up in a while. But I think there might concerns about his safety. Back to back brutal losses to you and me will just about ruin the boy. Let's see if he has any fight left. If he shows a little something. I'll go ahead and murder what's left of his career. But if he doesn't, it'll be a waste of my time. Plus I doubt the fight would even get sanctioned.

Let me waste a post:

hasn't it been agreed, that no unwanted intruder (v.d) should be intruding during the debates?

go clean the toilet v.d, your walmart crew needs you. your not a judge here so you need to wait your turn.

Bilbo can we get on with the debates with out side insults and more of your nonsense posting.

and i'm understanding is we are suppose to have 12 post each, no other posting need to be posted. thats why I said let me waste a post, and technically you've wasted about 5 post already.

where in the world are the judges and president of this anyways? can we get some rules enforce here? distraction and self-groupies (v.d) needs to let it alone with the two combatants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain

Let me waste a post:

hasn't it been agreed, that no unwanted intruder (v.d) should be intruding during the debates?

go clean the toilet v.d, your walmart crew needs you. your not a judge here so you need to wait your turn.

Bilbo can we get on with the debates with out side insults and more of your nonsense posting.

and i'm understanding is we are suppose to have 12 post each, no other posting need to be posted. thats why I said let me waste a post, and technically you've wasted about 5 post already.

where in the world are the judges and president of this anyways? can we get some rules enforce here? distraction and self-groupies (v.d) needs to let it alone with the two combatants.

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I don't think they count our non round posts so don't worry. I'd certainl complain like stink if they counted my posts asking where my opponent had gone as round posts.

For a while it was just me all alone with the lights off. I was ready to go home.

By the way good posting, I'm sure VD will reverse things quick but I liked the Walmart jibe.

Anyways if your corner are still insisting you continue care to start Round 4? :)

I'm just telling you views from Ringside. Which is allowed in every "Pro Fight". Your suppose to be the champion (how that happen?) simple views from observers shouldn't bother you. Trust me if you were whipping Bilbo's ass, I would point it out just as well.

Round 4:

you sticking to flyweight? quit trying to lie out from your teeth bilbo. your the worst to be defending the flyweight division or the easiest to be against when it comes to a topic where your pro-flyweight. you haven't made any reason or explanations why the flyweight division is better then the heavyweight division. YOU YOURSELF THINK THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A PROFESSIONAL SPORT, OR NOT BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS MATCH. it should already end there, but your picking up craps left and right trying to convince the judges and yourself your actually make sense out of what you don't even believe. Bilbo saying the 'FLYWEIGHT DIVISOIN IS EXCITING? you make a mockering of guys like me and cutmemick when we talk about the lower weight classes. You don't even follow them as much as we do.

You bring up fernando Montiel????you think his the ultra exciting fighter in the flyweight? can he bring the flyweight to the bright lights? NO and I can't even help but think if not for the deductions would he still be champion? I highly doubt it, Gorres did held on excessively but the referee didn't give much warnings. After montiels lost to jhonny he went back down to flyweight and thats when he out pointed Gorres in 12 round split decision.

Why don't you name some flyweights you thnk that can carry the division instead of trying to get others to jump on your bandwagon with more infamous bilbo nonsense posting.

yes I named briggs maskeav valuev toney and tua, why because even though in the past they have produce less exciting bouts with lesser oppenents. IF we put any two of those guys in the same ring, it could ignite a damn exciting fight. the problem with the heavyweight, is we have had too many fighters fighting bums. But now even briggs is in the mix, although his robotic his still a freak of nature not to be taken lightly. There are a lot more names in the heavyweight division that we can put together then in the flyweight division. like I said earlier, noun of the top current flyweights can be exciting enough to overshadow any potential heavyweight event.

What possible matches in the flyweight can you come up with that can sell a pay per view?

throughout history the flyweight division has been only for the purist fans, and its not going to change any time soon. The heavyweight division is still followed by every fan not just purist. I won't deny the fact that the flyweights can produce talented boxer, but the public do not pay attention to that division as much as they do with the heavyweight division.

Currently the flyweight isn't even that great to be comparable to any factors.

The heavyweight division dominates every catagory,

p4p nobody in the flyweights comes close to wladimir Klitschko: despite his shocking knock out lost and his suspect chin, wlady is a great talent and can potentially be a great heavyweight. He can box, he has improving defense and conditioning, and on top of that his sledgehammer right can sell out staples center in L.A.

Drama: james Toney, theres no james toney in the flyweight division. call him old and past his prime but when he starts running his mouth we listen and be amuse. this guy can draw in a crowd anywhere, his still p4p better than any flyweight and theres nobody in that division can compare to his ongoing james toney ora that entertains both inside and outside the ring.

Headlines: a seven foot tall boxer can headline any newspaper anywhere in the world, but a 5 foot 110 pounds fighter is less likely to even make 4 lines in the back of the sports section. Valuev can bring in many casual fans, a date with wlady would be legendary. Even you bilbo would love to see these two get it on.

Vitaly Klitschko: if he does ever come back, he'll add onto the many potential great fights we can see in the near future.

The only way for you to win bilbo is to start explaning how in the world can the flyweight compare to the heavy hitters, who in that division can you put together and be a big event?

Face it the flyweight division is not currently better then the heavyweight division. even if we don't have the once golden era of heavyweights. the flyweights still are not more then they've always been, the heavyweight is less of its former state but by no means have the flyweights become better in any sense.

let me just give a comment.

HitmanDonny, VD should not be allowed to intrude or give comment to the fight. It may affect the decision of the judges.

VD, bro you will have your time to debate.

My man,VD,you'll be able to kick ass soon. Let these guys finish,then it'll be your time. 8)

Bilbo's post Round 4.

I really don't have much to say in this round. I could once again provide a retort to everything in your previous post but it's unneccesary, your post was just one big low blow man.

You already have nothing left to say and so are trying to resort to cheapshots and questioning my integrity. Calling up past quotes of mine from my time on Saddos is just such a low act my friend.

I have been give a division to defend and I am doing my best to defend them. This bout is a test of our debating and reasoning skills, you however want to engage me on a personal level and question my own credibility as a flyweight fan.

This debate is not about personal insults my friend. :)

It seems that like so many posters on here you resort to cheap tactics when you run out of ideas. As this is only the fourth round it would seem you ran out of ideas fast.

Oh and just to make sure I score enough 'punches' to win this round let me say that Ivan Calderon IS rated higher p4p than Wladimir Klitschko.

Undefeated two division champion with super slick skills and an evasive style. He can stay in the pocket and not get hit and proved in his last fight against the much bigger and more powerful Cazares, the recognised MAN at junior flyweight that he could cope with adversity and respond well under pressure.

It was also a FAR MORE ENTERTAINING bout than any of Wladimir's recent bouts.

Finally in the next round I'll start to comment about the stars of the flyweight division, and will provide evidence of a huge global fanbase for the flyweight divisions. this was just a round in which I felt compelled to respond to your petty personal attack tactics.

Please could I appeal to the referee in this fight to make Julius speed up?

I typically have had to wait 24 hours for every reply so far. This was supposed to have concluded on Friday but we have still only had 4 rounds thanks to Rains only posting one response a day.

I'm a patient man but this is getting a bit silly :-\

It looks like Rains corner won't let him come out

Ok Julius I'm not sure if you are continuing but I'll start round 5.

This will be the first time I've been on the offensive and hopefully will be enough to end your challenge.
I'm going to make this a 'put up or shut up' round where we can compare head to head the merits of the two divisions regarding current 'excitement'.

Before I do I just want to reiterate what I said in round 3 regarding your Amerian bias and ethnocentric views. You stated the following 'What possible flyweight matches could you possibly sell on PPV?'
You also stated that the flyweight division is a division only for purists and that the flyweights will never be popular or main event fights.

These quotes, all absurdly untrue of course will now be addressed.

First of all let's just cut to the chase and state that by asking what flyweight fights could be sold as a PPV and what main event flyweight fights could made you actually mean what PPV fights at flyweight could be made IN AMERICA and what main events could the flyweights host IN AMERICA?

Now as an American I guess it's entirely unsuprising that you would consider AMERICAN PPV's as the sole source of determining popularity after all more than half of US school children think that the USA is the world's largest Continent ::**

But and I know this will come as an eye opener to you but there are OTHER COUNTRIES in the world where the flyweights are exceptionally popular.

Before I get to them lets just examine why the flyweights are not popular in the US. Firstly the average US adult male probably weighs upwards of 160 lbs with 50% weighing over 200! As a result the flyweight division is not a division that the US has any world rated fighters in.

So with no participation at world level themselves why would America one of the most insular and self absorbed nations in the world be interested in a division in which they didn't feature?

This is a nation who decided not to bother with the worlds most popular sport football, and reinvented their own version that they could play all by themselves after all :P

So why on earth would you reasonably expect American companies like HBO and Showtime to broadcast PPV fights featuring flyweights from other countries?

After all, even in divisions in which America feature strongly they don't bother to host PPV events of all but the most global of non US stars. For example Joe Calzaghe despite being the longest reigning champion of the world only appeared in on HBO for the first time last year, and that against the popular AMERICAN reality star Peter Manfredo ::**

I'll actually make a bold statement here. On reflection I believe that the flyweights are actually a LOT more popular than the NON American heavyweights are IN AMERICA!

Let's consider the facts, Vic Darchinyan, Nonito Donaire, Jorge Arce, Ferndo Montiel, Ivan Calderon, Brian Vilora, Christian Mijares, Ulisyse Solis and Edgar Sosa have ALL APPEARED on AMERICAN screens in the past year fighting NON AMERICAN opposition.

Apart from Wladimir Klitschko (who is American based anyway) when was the last time the US took an interest in a heavyweight fight involving NON Americans?

Oh yes, the American camera's were there to watch American champion Hasim Rahman lose his title to Oleg Maskaev but where were they when Maskaev made his first defense in Russia against Peter Okhello?

For that matter where were they when Nikolay Valuev won his world title against John Ruiz?

In fact the lack of interest is so great that when former American legend Evander Holyfield fought for an historic 5th world title against some Eastern European fighter in some Eastern European country they had to sell the fight on global PPV as neither HBO, Showtime or even ESPN were interested.

American interest in non American heavyweights is actually much LESS than their interest in non American flyweights, this despite the fact that the heavyweights are the supposed glamour division and the Americans have dozens of professional fighters in that division.

It is entirely fair to suggest that if the Americans had some decent world class flyweights of themselves they WOULD be on PPV and they WOULD be in main events in America.

Ok now let's look at rest of the world. In places such as the Philippines, Japan, South America etc where the average weight of an adult male is much less the flyweight division is HUGE and they do feature in main events.

The fight last week between Kameda and Naito in Japan had over 32% television coverage, this despite Japanese tv figures falling dramatically thanks to the popularity of consoles such as the Nintendo Wii. In July Japanese tv networks announced that for the first time an entire week had passed with no programme on any channel getting more than a 9% tv coverage share, so a 32% coverage is huge!

Fighters such as Nonito Donaire, Ivan Calderan and Koki Kameda have a HUGE following back in their own countries, so large in fact that even you as an American have seen their fights on American tv!

When was the last time Alexander Povetkin, Ruslan Chagaev, Sergio Lyakhovich, Oleg Maskaev or Sultan Ibragimov appeared on HBO or Showtime fighting a NON American opponent. Has it ever happened? I doubt it.

So in conclusion I feel I have successfully shown your belief that the flyweights are unpopular is flawed. You only feel they are unpopular because you live in America and America doesn't have any flyweights.

I expect you also think soccer isn't popular either ::**

I was going to expand on the flyweight fighters but I've written enough for now and will do that in the next round, :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok Julius I'm not sure if you are continuing but I'll start round 5.

This will be the first time I've been on the offensive and hopefully will be enough to end your challenge.
I'm going to make this a 'put up or shut up' round where we can compare head to head the merits of the two divisions regarding current 'excitement'.

Before I do I just want to reiterate what I said in round 3 regarding your Amerian bias and ethnocentric views. You stated the following 'What possible flyweight matches could you possibly sell on PPV?'
You also stated that the flyweight division is a division only for purists and that the flyweights will never be popular or main event fights.

These quotes, all absurdly untrue of course will now be addressed.

First of all let's just cut to the chase and state that by asking what flyweight fights could be sold as a PPV and what main event flyweight fights could made you actually mean what PPV fights at flyweight could be made IN AMERICA and what main events could the flyweights host IN AMERICA?

Now as an American I guess it's entirely unsuprising that you would consider AMERICAN PPV's as the sole source of determining popularity after all more than half of US school children think that the USA is the world's largest Continent ::**

But and I know this will come as an eye opener to you but there are OTHER COUNTRIES in the world where the flyweights are exceptionally popular.

Before I get to them lets just examine why the flyweights are not popular in the US. Firstly the average US adult male probably weighs upwards of 160 lbs with 50% weighing over 200! As a result the flyweight division is not a division that the US has any world rated fighters in.

So with no participation at world level themselves why would America one of the most insular and self absorbed nations in the world be interested in a division in which they didn't feature?

This is a nation who decided not to bother with the worlds most popular sport football, and reinvented their own version that they could play all by themselves after all :P

So why on earth would you reasonably expect American companies like HBO and Showtime to broadcast PPV fights featuring flyweights from other countries?

After all, even in divisions in which America feature strongly they don't bother to host PPV events of all but the most global of non US stars. For example Joe Calzaghe despite being the longest reigning champion of the world only appeared in on HBO for the first time last year, and that against the popular AMERICAN reality star Peter Manfredo ::**

I'll actually make a bold statement here. On reflection I believe that the flyweights are actually a LOT more popular than the NON American heavyweights are IN AMERICA! Total FALSE!

Let's consider the facts, Vic Darchinyan, Nonito Donaire, Jorge Arce, Ferndo Montiel, Ivan Calderon, Brian Vilora, Christian Mijares, Ulisyse Solis and Edgar Sosa have ALL APPEARED on AMERICAN screens in the past year fighting NON AMERICAN opposition.

Apart from Wladimir Klitschko (who is American based anyway) when was the last time the US took an interest in a heavyweight fight involving NON Americans?

Oh yes, the American camera's were there to watch American champion Hasim Rahman lose his title to Oleg Maskaev but where were they when Maskaev made his first defense in Russia against Peter Okhello?

For that matter where were they when Nikolay Valuev won his world title against John Ruiz?

In fact the lack of interest is so great that when former American legend Evander Holyfield fought for an historic 5th world title against some Eastern European fighter in some Eastern European country they had to sell the fight on global PPV as neither HBO, Showtime or even ESPN were interested.

American interest in non American heavyweights is actually much LESS than their interest in non American flyweights, this despite the fact that the heavyweights are the supposed glamour division and the Americans have dozens of professional fighters in that division.

It is entirely fair to suggest that if the Americans had some decent world class flyweights of themselves they WOULD be on PPV and they WOULD be in main events in America. wHAT COUNTRY HOLDS PAY PER VIEW FOR FLYWEIGHTS?

Ok now let's look at rest of the world. In places such as the Philippines, Japan, South America etc where the average weight of an adult male is much less the flyweight division is HUGE and they do feature in main events. TOTALLY FALSE AGAIN

The fight last week between Kameda and Naito in Japan had over 32% television coverage, this despite Japanese tv figures falling dramatically thanks to the popularity of consoles such as the Nintendo Wii. In July Japanese tv networks announced that for the first time an entire week had passed with no programme on any channel getting more than a 9% tv coverage share, so a 32% coverage is huge!

Fighters such as Nonito Donaire, Ivan Calderan and Koki Kameda have a HUGE following back in their own countries, so large in fact that even you as an American have seen their fights on American tv!

When was the last time Alexander Povetkin, Ruslan Chagaev, Sergio Lyakhovich, Oleg Maskaev or Sultan Ibragimov appeared on HBO or Showtime fighting a NON American opponent. Has it ever happened? I doubt it. BUT YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM EVERY FAN WAS AWARE OF THEIR FIGHTS, UNLIKE FLYWEIGHTS MANY FANS ARE NOT AWARE OF THEIR FIGHTS, OR THEY JUST DECIDE NO TO FOLLOW FLYWEIGHT DIVISION.

So in conclusion I feel I have successfully shown your belief that the flyweights are unpopular is flawed. You only feel they are unpopular because you live in America and America doesn't have any flyweights.

I expect you also think soccer isn't popular either ::**

I was going to expand on the flyweight fighters but I've written enough for now and will do that in the next round, :) yEA YOU SAY THIS AFTER EVERY ROUND. ;D

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The american view strategy is obviously desperasion in your part biblo. This isn't about america, soccer, or all the other nounsense you keep posting. keep to the course, flyweights and heavyweights. You still haven't explain why the flyweight is overall better, your all about opinions and false facts. And you and your buddy v.d keep hoping im giving up when its you bilbo that has no direction with his debates, you say a lot of what your going to do but never actually do it. you just keep continueing on with more nounsense posting from bilbo.

Round 5:

To get you notice in the flyweight you have to deliver knock outs, those are what got arce and vic talked about a bit. Ivan and all the other flyweights need the knock outs to boost them to the spotlights. Fact is, theres nothing in the flyweight that can't be seen in the other weight classes. Take bantamweight and featheweight for example, those two division are above the flyweights and they need stars that brawl and deliver k.o's. The greats in those division, such as rafeal marquez, isreal valezquz, manny pacquio, marco anotonio barrera and eric morales. Those are the top of the list in those division, and they deliver drama, action and rivalry. What does the flyweight offer? NOthing, it can have boxing talents such as mijares but thats that. Do you think people would rather watch mijares or ivan over the other as good or better boxer in the above division? NO, they much rather pay to see bigger guys with the same skills, or better skills such as floyd maywheater. Arce and Vic were the only two bring a lot of attention to the flyweight, but now that both of their mouths have been shut, the flyweight will continue on just like in history to have unnotice good boxers but atleast appreciated by purist. And the only way the flyweight fighters can get more fame is to move up in weight and make noise in each division. the flyweight division is a making point, the onces that stay are stuck never being more famous and getting the big money pay day in the higher division. the bantamweight and featherweight produce more money for their fighters then the flyweight and thats the truth. That is why any flyweight that wants more fame and bigger pay day needs to move up in weight. Unless they are satisfied with the limited fame they may get in their respected countries, they won't be remember by all boxing fans with out the bigger fights in the higher divisions.

AS for the heavyweight, we are closer than ever to getting the next undisputed champion. Yes there are no american heavyweights nor flyweight americans that makes the current top lsit. That does not matter though bilbo, we are talking about the divisions. All over the world you can come up to anybody and ask them to name as many flyweight and as many heavyweights and for sure they will name more heavyweights then flyweights they can think of. This is overall stats, not just individual countries. you may have people in japan answering you that tyson is still a heavyweight fighter and name you twice as much flyweights but that would only be in few countries such as japan. Most of the other countries will name you a lot more heavyweights and maybe no flyweights world wide. You do the calculations you can get an average of more heavyweights world wide are more known then flyweights, meaning a lot more follow the heavyweights and less flyweights.

The flyweight needs knock out to get the recognizion. What else can the flyweight offer the fans that aren't seen in the other division? excitement means action a lot of action and knock outs. face it bilbo even you wouldn't pay to see a boxing match between two flyweights, people want to see action a lot of it from the smaller guys.


why don't you finally do what you say and expand on the flyweight fighters? what makes the flyweight more exciting than the ongoing drama in the heavyweights? Although there are no great heavweights, there are absolutely no great flyweight either. But the attention and anticipation will always remain more on the heavyweights? why? becuase heavyweights are a lot more fun to watch then smaller guys. We could have james toney talking shyt in one corner and two flyweights in another corner, guess who will get more attention? yup james toney. there are no james toney attitude in the flyweights that can rise the division to the bright lights. It needs a prince hamed to get the overall public not just the few purist; boxing still living off, keeping gullible. the heavyweight gets both side not just the purist, they also get the casual fans. We can put a lot more heavyweights against eachother and sell in europe, america, africa even asia. But flyweigths can only sell in the few small countries they have supporting their flyweight fighters.

Bilbo's post Round 6

The american view strategy is obviously desperasion in your part biblo. This isn't about america, soccer, or all the other nounsense you keep posting. keep to the course, flyweights and heavyweights. You still haven't explain why the flyweight is overall better, your all about opinions and false facts. And you and your buddy v.d keep hoping im giving up when its you bilbo that has no direction with his debates, you say a lot of what your going to do but never actually do it. you just keep continueing on with more nounsense posting from bilbo.

The American strategy is desperation? How is it it's fundamental to your argument!

You say that flyweights are not big business and that they don't feature in main events. THEY DO!

They don't feature in main events IN AMERICA because there are no decent American flyweights and hence no interest in the division.

You cannot even debate with me any more, merely running lines through my posts and writing 'RUBBISH' next to it ::**

If you disagree please explain why.

Demonstrate American PPV interest in non American heavyweight fights. Demonstrate that in countries where the flyweight divisions are strong that they still cannot make main events.

Wasn't the Kamedo Naito fight on this week a main event? Yes

Was the Calderon Cazares fight a main event? Yes

Were they televised? Yes, did they have large viewing audiences, YES!

The reality is that interest in the heavyweight scene is now so low that unless an American is fighting they don't even bother to screen the fights in the US.

This has always been largely the case with the other divisions too. How often do you see non American bouts on American television in any division?

Answer is you don't.

In fact the only non American guys who ever break through and win a big crowd following in America are LITTLE GUYS, the Erik Morales, Manny Pacquaio's and Marco Antonio Barrera's.

It is entirely likey that in the future the guys like Christian Mijares, Nonito Donaire and Ivan Calderon will become some of the biggest NON AMERICAN names in America.

HBO and Showtime are always looking for EXCITING fighters and more and more their attention has been on the smaller fighters. Nowadays when people think of power punchers do they think of heavyweights?

Not likely, it's guys like Ponce De Leon, Darchinyan, Valero, Pacquiao etc, not all flyweights it's true but it shows that OVERWHELMINGLY the trend has been a decrease in popularity in the heavyweight division and a surge of interest in guys at the lower weights.

That's why now on any big PPV card you'll most likely see some fighters featured from the flyweight and bantam weight divisions because they provide good entertainment value.

When was the last time you could say that about the heavyweight division?

Bilbo's post Round 7

Ok that's that over with, now let's (FINALLY!) get to the meat of the argument,. I say the flyweights are more exciting than the heavies you argue otherwise. Let's settle this once and for all.

List your top 10 most exciting heavyweight fights of the year and I'll list my top 10 flyweight fights of the year. Remember this is all about excitment and drama!

I'll go first, here's mine.

1.) Nonito Donaire vs Vic Darchinyan One of the greatest upsets of the year Donaire exposed Darchinyan big time catching him cold with a stunning one punch knockout, one of the best of the year. The fight completely overshadowed the supposed 'main event' of Travis Simms vs Joachim Alcine

2.)Hugo Cazares vs Ivan Calderon A fight that generated world wide interest amongst boxing fans the tiny 5ft Calderon stepped up a division to face the big punching and 7 inches taller Ring champion Hugo Cazares. In a fascinating fight Calderon befuddled and outsmarted the much bigger man and overcame the drama of being caught in the middle of the fight. Cazares was stalking him at the end, but Calderon held firm for a fantastic victory

3.) Ulises Solis vs Rodel Mayo In an action packed fight Solis recovered from a knockdown and almost being out on his feet to come back and knockout the brave challenger Mayo

4.) Fernando Montiel vs Luis Melendez One of the best fights of the year WBO Super flyweight champ Montiel picked himself up off the floor to finish Melendez in the final minute of a 12 round war

5.) Jorge Arce vs Tomas Rojas Although the fight took place at bantamweight Arce make no mistake is a flyweight star. After taking a beating for 5 savage rounds he stunned Rojas with a devasting body shot that spectacularly ended the fight

6.)Dimitri Kirilov vs Jose Navarro, The chief support for the Holyfield Ibragimov world title fight this flyweight bout was by far the more entertaining of the two. Kirilov overcame a knockdown in the 3rd round to fight back and win a close and extremely hard fought 12 round win.

7.) Christian Mijares vs Jorge Arce In a suprising upset the little known Mijares revealed himself to be a super slick southpaw who laid a smackdown on the popular Mexican ending his 8 year unbeaten run in spectacular fashion

8.) Daisuke Naito vs Daiki Kameda. A savage ugly brawl that erupted into one of the dirties fights in recent memory. Naito put a beatdown on Daiki Kameda, leading him to spectacularly implode in the fight and earn himself a year's ban from the sport. But don't let the fouls fool you, unlike Mayweather Judah this was a savage powerpunching fightfest and my favourite fight this week.

9.) Edgar Sosa vs Brian Viloria. An undercard fight on the Blaze of Glory HBO PPV featuring Manny Pacquiao vs Jorge Solis, this fight was clearly the best bout of the night. A toe to toe brawl Sosa managed to find something in the last rounds to pull off a huge upset win. Boxing writers praised the fight as being one of the finest of the year.

10) Daisuke Naito vs Pongsaklek WonjongkamAnother great showing from Naito he caused a huge upset by beating the Ring champ Wonjingkam and ending his 6 year and 16 title defenses reign. Wonjingkam had previously been rated at number 10 in the Ring magazines p4p list.


Ok that's my top 10 most exciting flyweight fights of the year.

Please post you top 10 most exciting heavyweight fights of the year and why you feel they were exciting.

:)