How many of these garbage ass stoppages would have been avoided had the "Standing 8 Count," been implemented in the fight?
They should make the "Standing 8 Count," absolutely, 100%, mandatory in EVERY fight.
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How many of these garbage ass stoppages would have been avoided had the "Standing 8 Count," been implemented in the fight?
They should make the "Standing 8 Count," absolutely, 100%, mandatory in EVERY fight.
Couldn't agree more...it gives the fighter a chance to pull himself (or herself ;D) together, and also gives the ref more time to accurately gauge exactly how hurt a fighter really is.
Yes,Yes,.I really like the Standind 8 Count and wish it would be used with strict instruction and consistency on "how" &"when" by refs
In alot of cases it proved to be very subjective and erratic ,which could affect a fight in a bad way.Alot of Opposer's say"If a fighter is hurt that bad,why let it continue anyway"?There should be a uniformed enforcement policy....(you could require that with alot in Boxing ) ::**
It really gives a well trained ref the full occasion to assess a fighter who appears hurt and make a qualified Judgement call.It comes down to training and guidelines for officials.To much to ask I guess!
I made a post regarding this following the second Vazquez Marquez fight but on reflection I think it's a bad idea.
Take yesterdays fight between heavyweights TJ Wilson and Travis Walker.
Walker was getting his a** handed to him, the ref thought he was in danger of getting hurt so he stopped the fight.
If the standing 8 count rule were in effect he could have conceivably waded in and given Walker a nice breather and restarted the action in the centre of the ring.
Where would the justice be in that for Wilson?
'Err excuse me Wilson but you are giving Walker too much of a hiding on these ropes, I'm just going to break you up and stick you both back in the centre of the ring after I've given Walker a little rest',
F*** that, let them fight!
I missed the fight but that sounds like an illadvised 8 count.I think its a Breather for both.The ref looks at him and if hes hurt bad(walk to me) its over.If he complies then they prevent a shi!!!! stoppage and a Cheap ko win and its mute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
If Wilson was that dominate he regroups and resumes as well as a point added
I dont know Bilbo,I totally understand the other side and you make a good point ,the less intrusive a ref. is,the farer and better for the fighters to sort it out.
There are examples either way.
BTW,do they really make you resume in the ring center over there?That is a Dumbarse rule.In the states they would leave you where you were.
:coolclick: Totally agree 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
But what about the fighter who is in the ascendency? Surely the ONLY reason a referee should interfere with the flow of a fight is if their are clinches, holding, fouls etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
If a fighter is putting a pounding on someone then it is up to his opponent to fight his way out of that situation, either by returning fire, retreating or if he needs to taking a knee.
Not only is it unfair to the fighter who has the other on retreat but it could also lead to WORSE refereeing decisions, with fighters arguing that the referee gave them an unwarranted standing eight count that cost them the fight on the scorecards.
I can imagine threads popping up all over Saddo's saying 'Why did the fucking tard referee give him a standing 8 count, he was fine!'.
Defensive fighters, especially those who like to absorb pressure like Winky Wright, the current Roy Jones etc could be at a disadvantage if the referee decided they were needed a count.
Just leave it as it is, one less thing for ref's to fuck up ;D
Bilbo I just Read of that fight and man ,Im sorry I missed It .From the sound of things it was the perfect case for Standing 8 and what you hope you do not get,A Cheap TKO...I.E controversial and whens the rematch.Walker got Jumped early .....15 seconds?I think they both deserve better than that man.was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
I have to catch replay.
I think that would be the best fight to watch. Personally if you watch the replay Walkers head was lolling, if the ref hadn't waded in he WOULD have been knocked out no question in my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
If however he would have waded in and given him an 8 count how unfair would that have been to TJ Wilson? He was just on the verge of knocking him out having him trapped in corner and helpless and you want the ref to come in and give Walker a breather to get himself back in the fight?
Not fair, not fair at all.
Premature stoppages do happen and possibly this was one of them, although I personally think it was a wise call, but who really wants referees interefering with the flow of a fight and stopping the action to give standing 8 counts.
They do it in the amatuers and personally I think it sucks ;)
In a Odd/cynical way I feel as though that Im endorsing Prolonged agony for a presumably Ko'd Fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
This will sound Nuts :Pbut Its actually A Negative ya know?If Wilson is the dominate force and Walker Is there to "get got",Then Walker falls...
If not than Walker(as Many )fighters will show that Looks can be decieving and Officials should have and employ the tools to reach a conclussion with little doubt.
Yeah,and in the amatuers they also COUNT PUNCHES as opposed to the effect............ CC to Bilb's and your hairy feet.Good stuff ;D
coolclick returned buddy, :)
Standing 8 count should be mandatory in every world title fight!
Isn't there already a form of standing 8 in place? I think it's more a matter of too few refs having the presence of mind to use it.
Take the same knock down punch landed in the center of the ring vs. one landed with the receiving fighter against the ropes. In the center of the ring, a fighter will go down and further punishment is stopped, therefore giving the stricken fighter a chance to recover, usually an eight count. Against the ropes, a fighter is often held up to take more punishment and leaves the ref no choice, or the appearance of no choice, but to step in and save the stricken fighter.
However the ref does have another option, and that is to rule that the ropes held the fighter up, and step in to give a standing 8 count. I'm pretty certain that I've seen this in fights where it was stated in the rules that there is no standing 8?
If I'm right, It seems like there really is no need for a separate standing 8 rule, just a better understanding of the present rules by more refs.
I have mixed feelings .. thing about the standing 8 count, , if you are the fighter trying to mop up, then the ref stops the action.. allows the other man time to recover , he comes back and knocks you out. thats no good. . ..??? its a catch.. the ref makes the right calls most of the time, Stressful job i would think ? you have lives in the balance.. better to be safe then sorry later.
RE: the Walker -Wilson match ..
I side with the ref on that call. I seen the camera view from the Ref's point of view.. Was a good stoppage.. Walker got mugged, He don't have the skills needed to deal with it.. could have ended very badly for him had the ref not come in.. Travis was out on his feet, was knocked out and back into consciousness with the 3rd shot .. Walker being stuck in that corner was as helpless as a new born child ,trust me.
I am against it for two reasons....
Reason 1--the guy who is winning could possible be cheated out of his KO if the standing 8 count does not result in the ref stopping the bout and the fighter gets that break to recover...he could go on to with the bout...sounds crazy but 8 seconds turn into 15 or 20 by time the ref steps in tells the other guy to go to a corner, starts his count and if he decides the fighter can continue before they get back to the center of the ring another 3 or so seconds went by before a punch is thrown...in boxing time 15-20 seconds in an eternity to recover
Reason 2- it almost contradicts reason 1.....again the 8 count is implemented and a guy seems clear enough to continue...Fight continues and the guy absorbs more punishment because during the 8 count he was able to clear up the few cobwebs he had allowing him to absorb more punishment.....it is better to be KO'd then have the chance to clear up then go in and absorb twice the punishment....
I guess the best way to explain the second part would be this...
Run a car with no oil in it.....Just as the car starts to make noises shut it off...wait an hour then repeat the process...Finally once the engine seizes not only do you have to replace the heads and pistons but everything else that was taking abuse from the constant on and off action...when in all actuality you should have just let it seize the first time and all you would of had to do is replace the pistons and heads....
Don't know if that made sense but best example i could think of with only 1 cup of coffee in me
auto analogy :lolololol: Good stuff Daxx.Early morning blurry CC to ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
There but for a standing 8 my girl might have a very different record
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
CC back at ya....Between lack of coffee and the phone ringing i got lost in what I was saying so i winged it :-\
if a boxer is unable to defend themselves they should be stopped. they should not have standing 8 counts unless a boxer is knocked down. After all why should you have to stop the same opponent twice. Mark Breland got given a standing 8 count in the olympics against Shawn Osullivan when he should have been stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
I agree with DK
It is potentially too subjective and at the same time potentially too dangerous.
One of two things may happend. Eather refs get too much of a safety first mentality and start taking points from a fighter who given 1 or 2 more seconds might recover and start throwing back or the ref fails to recognize the degree of punishment the fighter has taken and allows him to continue taking more punishment than necessary. Similar to Daxx's seccond point.
If you are hurt (and still consious), take a knee. Otherwise, fight back before it's too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
What about the Calzaghe vs Manfredo fight??
Surely Manfredo wasn't on his way down, but the ref jumped in and waived it off. The standing 8 count that some people oppose would have saved that fight (and many others)
Actually, that situation called for nither. It was just bad refferieing.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
It's a great topic of debate, and each side of the argument has its merits. However, I side with those that believe there shouldn't be standing 8 counts. In a nut shell, the referees should be trained to pay close attention to the fight, specifcally the condition of the fighters, and call off the fight when it is truly evident that a fighter has had enough. Referees should also know who is fighting as well. Some guys can come back after being knocked down and hurt. Referees shouldn't have an itchy trigger finger in those cases. Bbasically, referees should be more on top of it so that controversies do not occur.