Joan Guzman has the tool to beat Pac and JMM

As much as I dislike the guy for his cockyness, He has the tools to beat both Pac and JMM.
He's fast a good boxer and can take a punch. Not a smart move for Pac or JMM to fight him before they face each other.

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Originally Posted by bond007

As much as I dislike the guy for his cockyness, He has the tools to beat both Pac and JMM.
He's fast a good boxer and can take a punch. Not a smart move for Pac or JMM to fight him before they face each other.

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I agree, he's going to give them hell. Hard to hit and does take it good when he does get tagged.

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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CC for you my friend. im starting to see ur genius man. if guzman traded toe to toe with pac just like he did with soto he will find himself on the canvas. and his shoulder roll wouldnt work against a southpaw.if guzmans face blew up against a mediocre puncher like soto, how would his face look like against pac? soto hit him a bunch of times in the late rounds and he started to ride his bicycle.

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Originally Posted by josef4334

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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CC for you my friend. im starting to see ur genius man. if guzman traded toe to toe with pac just like he did with soto he will find himself on the canvas. and his shoulder roll wouldnt work against a southpaw.if guzmans face blew up against a mediocre puncher like soto, how would his face look like against pac? soto hit him a bunch of times in the late rounds and he started to ride his bicycle.

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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Guzman only ran in the last few rounds. Soto is a far more dangerous opponent than shot MAB/SOLIS/MORALES the third time. To call Soto a mediocre puncher shows a lack of boxing knowledge. And Arum does not want to make a Guzman fight,not because Guzman "ran" but because he knows Guzman's style would give Manny ALOT pf problems. And to whoever said shoulder rolls don't worlk v southpaws,err watch Mayweather v Zab,Sharmba etc etc. James Toney etc etc.

To say no-one wants to see Guzman is foolish. I can't think of anyone who DOESN'T want to see him.

I think he does aswell he reminded me of Mayweather in his younger days he throws nice combos and has some snappy punches plus he is lighting fast he also has upper body movement very fluid and he is an excellent counter puncher the style that would give both Pacquiao and Marquez hell but it would bother Pacquiao more than Marquez imo.

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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Another fan who doesn't appreciate all styles of boxing ::**

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Guzman only ran in the last few rounds. Soto is a far more dangerous opponent than shot MAB/SOLIS/MORALES the third time. To call Soto a mediocre puncher shows a lack of boxing knowledge. And Arum does not want to make a Guzman fight,not because Guzman "ran" but because he knows Guzman's style would give Manny ALOT pf problems. And to whoever said shoulder rolls don't worlk v southpaws,err watch Mayweather v Zab,Sharmba etc etc. James Toney etc etc.

To say no-one wants to see Guzman is foolish. I can't think of anyone who DOESN'T want to see him.

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soto is a mediocre puncher in my book. its called opinion. its not about boxing knowledge. soto took 7 rounds to drop bobby pac. an elite fighter could have done that in a shorter amount of time. i dont bash soto. and i thought he did enough to win the fight. if soto had the knocking power we wont be talking guzman here.

I think Guzman could beat JMM but no way he beats PACMAN
a fight with JMM would be a great boxing affair

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by josef4334

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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CC for you my friend. im starting to see ur genius man. if guzman traded toe to toe with pac just like he did with soto he will find himself on the canvas. and his shoulder roll wouldnt work against a southpaw.if guzmans face blew up against a mediocre puncher like soto, how would his face look like against pac? soto hit him a bunch of times in the late rounds and he started to ride his bicycle.

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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Guzman only ran in the last few rounds. Soto is a far more dangerous opponent than shot MAB/SOLIS/MORALES the third time. To call Soto a mediocre puncher shows a lack of boxing knowledge. And Arum does not want to make a Guzman fight,not because Guzman "ran" but because he knows Guzman's style would give Manny ALOT pf problems. And to whoever said shoulder rolls don't worlk v southpaws,err watch Mayweather v Zab,Sharmba etc etc. James Toney etc etc.

To say no-one wants to see Guzman is foolish. I can't think of anyone who DOESN'T want to see him.

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First I don't think Soto is a huge puncher, but his power should definitely be respected. I also don't think Pacquaio has all the power in the world at 130 and up, but he hits you so quickly along with that power that your totally thrown off, kind of like Roy Jones Jr. use to do to light heavyweight. The only difference is that Manny Pacquaio doesn't let off after 2 or 3 rounds, he always is in great shape and he dictates the pace. Guzman doesn't not have the pin point accuracy or defensive skills that Floyd Mayweathear Jr. possesses. I am not even saying Pacquaio will take Guzman out, but I am saying he will give Guzman a pounding if they fight. Pacquaio is the second best fighter in the world, in his prime, and he is becoming the full package. CC back jose

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Originally Posted by josef4334

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Guzman only ran in the last few rounds. Soto is a far more dangerous opponent than shot MAB/SOLIS/MORALES the third time. To call Soto a mediocre puncher shows a lack of boxing knowledge. And Arum does not want to make a Guzman fight,not because Guzman "ran" but because he knows Guzman's style would give Manny ALOT pf problems. And to whoever said shoulder rolls don't worlk v southpaws,err watch Mayweather v Zab,Sharmba etc etc. James Toney etc etc.

To say no-one wants to see Guzman is foolish. I can't think of anyone who DOESN'T want to see him.

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soto is a mediocre puncher in my book. its called opinion. its not about boxing knowledge. soto took 7 rounds to drop bobby pac. an elite fighter could have done that in a shorter amount of time. i dont bash soto. and i thought he did enough to win the fight. if soto had the knocking power we wont be talking guzman here.

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In this situation,it IS about boxing knowledge.Bobby Pac has only been stopped quicker 2 or 3 times out of his 13 losses.And if an elite fighter can do it quicker,Isigani Perez ??? must be an elite in your opinion as he stopped Bobby pac in 1. Soto has won his last 6 via stoppage. He stopped Ivan Valle,Valle's ONLY stoppage loss.Soto also hurt Rocky Juarez more than JMM or MAB did,rocking him on quite a few occasions. So yes,it IS about knowledge.And me being a Soto fan,I take exception to him being called a "mediocre" puncher.He's not a massive puncher but he most certainly is not mediocre. I'm a big Soto fan and I acknowledge he didn't win the fight. Seriously Pacquaio fans...

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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Nonsense. Bob Arum doesn't want a fight between the two because of risk/reward, its a dangerous fight for Pacquaio and he knows it. I like Pac, I like action fighters and I still think Guzman's great to watch. A Pac/Guzman fight would be anything but boring.

Taeth is the most unbias/non-hater on the board. this guy sees the light now.

:coolclick: for every post you make, your a genius. Unlike the no-hopers that keeps doubting your knowledge ;D

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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Nonsense. Bob Arum doesn't want a fight between the two because of risk/reward, its a dangerous fight for Pacquaio and he knows it. I like Pac, I like action fighters and I still think Guzman's great to watch. A Pac/Guzman fight would be anything but boring.

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Exactly. Arum is just protecting his top investments.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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Nonsense. Bob Arum doesn't want a fight between the two because of risk/reward, its a dangerous fight for Pacquaio and he knows it. I like Pac, I like action fighters and I still think Guzman's great to watch. A Pac/Guzman fight would be anything but boring.

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Exactly. Arum is just protecting his top investments.

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I don't even blame him, JMM's a bigger fight money wise, just bigger overall cause he's been around longer, been in bigger fights. Doesn't mean that Arum's not full of S***.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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I have said this before and will probably say it again. Though we hardly agree with each other, I can say this fella who call himself Taeth knows his boxing more than most of the guys out here. So guys, listen up, you can learn some good boxing lessons from him. Though I didn't get to watch the fight, I can confidently rely on Taeth's view of this fight and the fighter. I remember while I and only few guys here were unimpressed with Guzman in his fight against Barrios, all other 'amateurs' here were all going crazy over his performance in that fight, and judging by the reactions of the people here, this fight seems like an exact copy of that Barrios fight, where Guzman was running around the last few rounds. If that is so, I can assure you guys, Guzman definitely isn't in the same league as Marquez, or even Barrera for that matter...

Teach 'em kids here some boxing, Taeth. CC!

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Originally Posted by penalosafan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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I have said this before and will probably say it again. Though we hardly agree with each other, I can say this fella who call himself Taeth knows his boxing more than most of the guys out here. So guys, listen up, you can learn some good boxing lessons from him. Though I didn't get to watch the fight, I can confidently rely on Taeth's view of this fight and the fighter. I remember while I and only few guys here were unimpressed with Guzman in his fight against Barrios, all other 'amateurs' here were all going crazy over his performance in that fight, and judging by the reactions of the people here, this fight seems like an exact copy of that Barrios fight, where Guzman was running around the last few rounds. If that is so, I can assure you guys, Guzman definitely isn't in the same league as Marquez, or even Barrera for that matter...

Teach 'em kids here some boxing, Taeth. CC!

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Skill wise he is definetly on Marquez's level and Barrera's he has very good shoulder roll defense and great upper body movement plus very quick hands and good counter punching skills he reminded me of a young Mayweather i see alot of talent in Guzman he wasn't really tested against Soto so thats why he could cruise last couple of rounds he would definetly step it up if he was in against someone like Marquez or Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

...I also don't think Pacquaio has all the power in the world at 130 and up, but he hits you so quickly along with that power that your totally thrown off, kind of like Roy Jones Jr. use to do to light heavyweight...

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Right, but let me clarify that a bit, though. One reason pac doesn't seem to have that much power is that he use quick combos most of the time. Combos in quick succession aren't the strongest of punches. Just like Juan Diaz who almost exclusively throw combos that don't knock out opponents with one shot but nevertheless put them into submission later by accumulation. The reason pac didn't KO Larios was that he almost exclusively used quick combos in that fight, but he did manage to knock him down twice with them - and I have to emphasize that it is extremely difficult to put down an opponent with swift combos...BUT...

But when pac throws one of those single, dedicated power shots, usually his left straight, hook or an uppercut, that's where you see his real power. He used to KO his opponents with one shot. He knocked Barrera with one of those in the 1st fight. He did that to Morales couple of times, rocking and throwing Erik several feet into the ropes with one of them. He lifted the body of 3kbattery several inches with his uppercut, a guy who's never been knocked out prior to that and even after that - the guy who Molitor beat just recently. I've been aching to see pac throw one of those 'single dedicated shots' instead of swift combos, cuz those were the punches where he Kd'd or Ko'd the 'unknockoutable' fighters.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by penalosafan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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I have said this before and will probably say it again. Though we hardly agree with each other, I can say this fella who call himself Taeth knows his boxing more than most of the guys out here. So guys, listen up, you can learn some good boxing lessons from him. Though I didn't get to watch the fight, I can confidently rely on Taeth's view of this fight and the fighter. I remember while I and only few guys here were unimpressed with Guzman in his fight against Barrios, all other 'amateurs' here were all going crazy over his performance in that fight, and judging by the reactions of the people here, this fight seems like an exact copy of that Barrios fight, where Guzman was running around the last few rounds. If that is so, I can assure you guys, Guzman definitely isn't in the same league as Marquez, or even Barrera for that matter...

Teach 'em kids here some boxing, Taeth. CC!

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Skill wise he is definetly on Marquez's level and Barrera's he has very good shoulder roll defense and great upper body movement plus very quick hands and good counter punching skills he reminded me of a young Mayweather i see alot of talent in Guzman he wasn't really tested against Soto so thats why he could cruise last couple of rounds he would definetly step it up if he was in against someone like Marquez or Pacquiao.

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Nice points there. I'll take note of anyone's view, who can present it with sincerity and without any rancor. CC as usual, Icecold. ;)

CC back Pacfan your great poster shame you only come here once in blue moon though.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by penalosafan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I still disagree largely, he has the tools... maybe. He hand speed is about the same as Pacquaio's, but Pacquaio is known for taking out guys who are very tough by wearing them down. I think he would hit Guzman with punches Guzman hasn't encountered before. Pacquaio is also a very skilled boxer not just a balls to the wall fighter which people mistake him for. He is a master of distance and timing, and he goes to the body very effective which gives any boxer troubles.

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I have said this before and will probably say it again. Though we hardly agree with each other, I can say this fella who call himself Taeth knows his boxing more than most of the guys out here. So guys, listen up, you can learn some good boxing lessons from him. Though I didn't get to watch the fight, I can confidently rely on Taeth's view of this fight and the fighter. I remember while I and only few guys here were unimpressed with Guzman in his fight against Barrios, all other 'amateurs' here were all going crazy over his performance in that fight, and judging by the reactions of the people here, this fight seems like an exact copy of that Barrios fight, where Guzman was running around the last few rounds. If that is so, I can assure you guys, Guzman definitely isn't in the same league as Marquez, or even Barrera for that matter...

Teach 'em kids here some boxing, Taeth. CC!

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Skill wise he is definetly on Marquez's level and Barrera's he has very good shoulder roll defense and great upper body movement plus very quick hands and good counter punching skills he reminded me of a young Mayweather i see alot of talent in Guzman he wasn't really tested against Soto so thats why he could cruise last couple of rounds he would definetly step it up if he was in against someone like Marquez or Pacquiao.

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Guzman is definitely good, but we haven't seen him in there with the top guys yet, but I haven't said he isn't in the same league as Barrera and Marquez are in right now. However, I feel that if you play too defensive with Pacquaio its a dangerous thing to do, because he will overwhelm you. He comes in so fast, and he has improved his defence so much that except for those few times he gets wild its hard to counter Manny. Guzman is a very natural fighter like Floyd, and his combinations are as smooth as silk, but he isn't Floyd. He doesn't have same power Floyd had at this weight(I dont' think he's had a ko in like 7 fights, and last but not least he doesn't have the speed or intuition Mayweather had/has defensively. Guzman is slick, but like Cotto, Pacquaio has that ability to land hard punches on anyone because of his speed and the multitude of angles/looks he gives coming in.

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Hahaha...he may have the tools to beat Pac and JMM, but with his performance of running away against Soto, that will NEVER happen...

ESPN.com has an article talking about how Bob Arum REFUSES to promote a fight between Pac and Guzman cause Guzman would completely make the fight boring, and with this weekend's performance, no one wants to see Guzman (you should check it out, it's a good article)...

I'm sure Pacquiao will end up fighting Marquez in March and after that he will move up in weight. If Guzman made a good enough statement against Soto, which he didn't, he would make Pacquiao's decision to move up in weight much harder to complete.

In conclusion, YES, Guzman does have the tools, but, NO way will he get his dream fight with Pacquiao.

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CC. Hope you are right because I would hate that to happen. We want warriors not runners.

I would like to see Marquez and Paq sort It out in rematch.
I dont see Guzman beating Marquez.some say Guzman is hard to hit,I think beyond the flash and dash he does eat alot of shots.He has good mobility and can have flashes of the best poor mans Maywither ive seen in a while but Imo he has too few years against Marquez's many Gears.....way to versitile and adaptable for Guzman Imo.Marquez is far to good to Follow guzman around all night and afford him the time and options he had in his Boxing showcase we saw Saturday night.

guzman really has no chance against jmm or pac. nor does any of the other fighters in the weight class.

After seeing those pics of JMM, I'm sure he wouldnt mind getting beat by Guzman's tool. Lol I had to, you asked for it with the title. But seriously I didnt think Guzman was too impressive I didnt have him winning by that wide a margin. He went into backwards mode because he knew he could go toe to toe with Soto, and I wasnt to big on his antics. I think he won but I just get so frustrated when a guy coasts and does enough just to get by, thats my only bitch with Mayweather. I wanna see some fighting not dancing. I also get frustrated watching a fight where a guy cant close the deal, and Soto pulled a freaking Baldomir and just followed him around the ring like he was gonna stop or something. Not enough pressure....