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F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
I'm kinda getting bored of Pac at the moment. I feel he believes he doesn't have to prove he can beat either of these two and seems happy to be looking at other fights when really, we all know there should only be one fight he is interested in. For me, he has wasted 2008, fighting Solis & Barrera. The Barrera fight was a borefest, and meant nothing in the grand scheme of things, and while Solis was undefeated, he was largely unproven.
Guzman is making strides to prove himself, and I'd much prefer to see a unification match between him & Marquez.
After this year, I'd say there is argument that Pac wouldn't be in top 3 p4p.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
I am not sure if Pacman can make 130 all that easily anymore he has been weighing in at 144 lately, and he uses so much footwork that it might be in his benefit to go up in weight. Personally I dont' feel either guy give Pacman as good of a fight as a bigger fighter like Juan Diaz might. As for Pacquaio-Barrera being boring, I disagree personally, Pacquaio boxed beautifully and Barrera wasn't able to open up because Pacquaio would not let him.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
i agree id like to see Guzman v JMM and Juan Diaz v Pac, they would be the best matches all around then the winners meeting eachother.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I am not sure if Pacman can make 130 all that easily anymore he has been weighing in at 144 lately, and he uses so much footwork that it might be in his benefit to go up in weight. Personally I dont' feel either guy give Pacman as good of a fight as a bigger fighter like Juan Diaz might. As for Pacquaio-Barrera being boring, I disagree personally, Pacquaio boxed beautifully and Barrera wasn't able to open up because Pacquaio would not let him.
Seriously? You think Pac boxed beautifully? It was a poor fight. I've seen Pac box alot better than that. I felt the fight was poor. Both fighters were a shell of the best. I'm not saying pac was shot, but he massively underperformed in the fight. It was like watching a pre-agreed ending.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Plain and simple id like to see more of Joan Guzman....He's a fighter iv been following for a lil while now and i was dissappointred at his lack of activity as of late, however my disappointment was dispelled as his comeback fight was with a more than worthy opponent and he gave a good account of himself. Should Manny vacate the division and presuming JMM won't fight on forever, Guzman will be the future...and thats not a bad thing, he's a cool charismatic guy who can box well with lovely speedy combinations...
Nice thread bz he was getting a little overlooked!
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Re: Fuck Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
100% agree with that, I've been saying this since Guzman was at 122lbs, he's a top 3 p4p contender and once you stick him in there with the big names he'll box circles round them. He completely shut Soto down, and it wasn't the usual boring defensive crap you see from other fighters who are facing big punchers, he was making Soto pay every time he made a mistake with dazzling combinations and great speed. As the fight wore on he was staying right in the pocket like Mayweather used to. Great to see and I can't wait to see how he'd do against someone like Pacquiao. I thnk stylistically though, JMM could be trouble for Guzman. JMM is a rangey puncher, Guzman is quite squat and doesn't go forward nearly as well as when he lets fighters walk on to him, we'd have to see how it would turn out but I'd give Guzman a much better chance against pacquiao than I would JMM.
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Re: Fuck Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Donny,Guzman has been injured hence the inactivity. Good thread BZKFN,there is absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that Manny has wasted 2008. A pointless rematch with MAB and a fight v the unbeaten but not particularly highly rated Solis are not exactly great fights are they? And I was not overly impressed by Manny in either fight. I made that huge 10 plu page thread about his performance for the MAB fight and I totally agree,there is a case that a few fighters are ahead of him P4P although I don't have that in my own list(You could argue BhOp,JC are ahead)
You may get your wish,if Manny-JMM2 cannot be made,JMM will have few options but to face Joan. I'd favour JMM but it would be a close fight. And fyi,Bob Arum is not going to let Guzman anywhere near Manny.
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Originally Posted by 'Big' (Yoits)Dan McCarthy
100% agree with that, I've been saying this since Guzman was at 122lbs, he's a top 3 p4p contender and once you stick him in there with the big names he'll box circles round them. He completely shut Soto down, and it wasn't the usual boring defensive crap you see from other fighters who are facing big punchers, he was making Soto pay every time he made a mistake with dazzling combinations and great speed. As the fight wore on he was staying right in the pocket like Mayweather used to. Great to see and I can't wait to see how he'd do against someone like Pacquiao. I thnk stylistically though, JMM could be trouble for Guzman. JMM is a rangey puncher, Guzman is quite squat and doesn't go forward nearly as well as when he lets fighters walk on to him, we'd have to see how it would turn out but I'd give Guzman a much better chance against pacquiao than I would JMM.
CC,good posting.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Yes i no he was injured, that was very unfortunate, but i am glad that his first return fight was a tough challenge and he gathered some momentum
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
you guys really believe he broke his hand? doesnt look like it the way he threw his punches. i think he was just trying to "injure" his way out of a katsidis fight. his inactivity is due to his lack of discipline not his injury. imagine trying to lose weight from 170 to 130 in 3 months after being off for 11 months?must be tough.
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Re: Fuck Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by josef4334
you guys really believe he broke his hand? doesnt look like it the way he threw his punches. i think he was just trying to "injure" his way out of a katsidis fight. his inactivity is due to his lack of discipline not his injury. imagine trying to lose weight from 170 to 130 in 3 months after being off for 11 months?must be tough.
Katsidis would be schooled by Guzman!!!
Joan wouldn't get ionvolved, wouldn't let Katsidis start a war and plain and simple i think he'd win nearly every round by outboxing Kat!
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
joan guzman may be the real deal.
he seems to have great all round ability
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Pacquiao-Marquez II is the biggest fight that could be made in all of boxing. Only Mayweather-Cotto could match it.
Guzman is a nice fighter, but there is no reason to want to watch him instead of a Pac-JMM rematch.
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by josef4334
you guys really believe he broke his hand? doesnt look like it the way he threw his punches. i think he was just trying to "injure" his way out of a katsidis fight. his inactivity is due to his lack of discipline not his injury. imagine trying to lose weight from 170 to 130 in 3 months after being off for 11 months?must be tough.
You really don't think he broke his hand? Do you think Katsidis is a tougher opponent than Soto? You saw the way Guzman throws his punches, I'm surprised he doesn't break his hand more often.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
I find it hard to believe, shockingly hard to believe, that Guzman found a way to get out of fighting Katsidis. Never believed that for a second, just makes no sense.
The problem with Guzman, like with Hitman Donny saying he's the future, he's already 32. He doesn't seem like an "old" 32 considering he's good defensively and hasn't taken that many punches but he's still 32 and a guy that relies on speed so he needs to move now. Its easy to forget that Pac's younger than him although I kinda wonder how long Pac has left too cause even though he's younger he's got a style, or at least used to have a style, that isn't built for a long career, definitely not a Hopkins type of career. That and he's so reliant on his speed too.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his ass when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
I find it hard to believe, shockingly hard to believe, that Guzman found a way to get out of fighting Katsidis. Never believed that for a second, just makes no sense.
The problem with Guzman, like with Hitman Donny saying he's the future, he's already 32. He doesn't seem like an "old" 32 considering he's good defensively and hasn't taken that many punches but he's still 32 and a guy that relies on speed so he needs to move now. Its easy to forget that Pac's younger than him although I kinda wonder how long Pac has left too cause even though he's younger he's got a style, or at least used to have a style, that isn't built for a long career, definitely not a Hopkins type of career. That and he's so reliant on his speed too.
If you watch younger Hopkins he didn't have a style that looked like it would be fruitful for a long career... he had dirty, tough fights. However, Hopkins has always lived a very structured, boxing oriented life while Pacquaio and Mayweather both go out on the town and do too much outside their boxing life, and I think this may have an effect on their career more so than a style could. I personally believe that if Pacquaio slows down his life outside the ring he could be around for a while, he has the skills and the ability to do it.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I find it hard to believe, shockingly hard to believe, that Guzman found a way to get out of fighting Katsidis. Never believed that for a second, just makes no sense.
The problem with Guzman, like with Hitman Donny saying he's the future, he's already 32. He doesn't seem like an "old" 32 considering he's good defensively and hasn't taken that many punches but he's still 32 and a guy that relies on speed so he needs to move now. Its easy to forget that Pac's younger than him although I kinda wonder how long Pac has left too cause even though he's younger he's got a style, or at least used to have a style, that isn't built for a long career, definitely not a Hopkins type of career. That and he's so reliant on his speed too.
If you watch younger Hopkins he didn't have a style that looked like it would be fruitful for a long career... he had dirty, tough fights. However, Hopkins has always lived a very structured, boxing oriented life while Pacquaio and Mayweather both go out on the town and do too much outside their boxing life, and I think this may have an effect on their career more so than a style could. I personally believe that if Pacquaio slows down his life outside the ring he could be around for a while, he has the skills and the ability to do it.
That's true, and its why people who only have seen Hopkins from Trinidad on think he's boring when really he had some exciting fights. I like watching him as a "boxer" now anyway although I can understand why people don't.
But he was always pretty defensively responsible even so. Well, I've never seen the Mercado fight where he got knocked down twice but he wasn't just a face first fighter. Not that Pac really was either but I don't think he was as tight defensively for a while. That and he's been fighting for a long time for a guy that's only, what 27. And I think he relies a bit more on his speed and explosiveness than Hopkins did.
I'm not saying I think Pac's about to get old overnight, I just wonder how long he's gonna be in his true prime.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Im giving both Ouma and Taeth ccs for great points some that have not even entered my mind until now well done.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his a** when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
Besides his fight first fight with Pacquaio when did Barrera look outclassed in any of his fights until he fought Pacquiao again? Against Marquez that was a really close fight, and the judges must have been smoking something to get the scores they did. Barrera has just changed his style, he isn't just a shell of his former self. He beat Juarez just as decisively as Soto did, and Soto fought Solis until it was stopped with a headbutt, but though he had the upper hand, he didn't look anything like Pacquaio looked in there with Solis who is another underrated boxer. All this aside, I can't see how you would prefer to see a talented, and entertaining Guzman fight Marquez when a higher ranked Pacquaio who already has business to settle with JMM, and one of the most exciting styles in boxing should be every fans wish to see fight Marquez.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Im giving both Ouma and Taeth ccs for great points some that have not even entered my mind until now well done.
CC back
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Yeah CC Ice.
Even though I'm a big Guzman fan, I actually don't agree with wanting to see Guzman-JMM over JMM-Pac, even though I want to see Guzman get a chance, a JMM-Pac rematch is one of those fights that has to happen.
Now if it doesn't happen, and say Pac goes up to 135 then sure, Guzman deserves a chance. Who else is there, I'm not too sure about Valero and above all he can't fight in the U.S.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I find it hard to believe, shockingly hard to believe, that Guzman found a way to get out of fighting Katsidis. Never believed that for a second, just makes no sense.
The problem with Guzman, like with Hitman Donny saying he's the future, he's already 32. He doesn't seem like an "old" 32 considering he's good defensively and hasn't taken that many punches but he's still 32 and a guy that relies on speed so he needs to move now. Its easy to forget that Pac's younger than him although I kinda wonder how long Pac has left too cause even though he's younger he's got a style, or at least used to have a style, that isn't built for a long career, definitely not a Hopkins type of career. That and he's so reliant on his speed too.
If you watch younger Hopkins he didn't have a style that looked like it would be fruitful for a long career... he had dirty, tough fights. However, Hopkins has always lived a very structured, boxing oriented life while Pacquaio and Mayweather both go out on the town and do too much outside their boxing life, and I think this may have an effect on their career more so than a style could. I personally believe that if Pacquaio slows down his life outside the ring he could be around for a while, he has the skills and the ability to do it.
That's true, and its why people who only have seen Hopkins from Trinidad on think he's boring when really he had some exciting fights. I like watching him as a "boxer" now anyway although I can understand why people don't.
But he was always pretty defensively responsible even so. Well, I've never seen the Mercado fight where he got knocked down twice but he wasn't just a face first fighter. Not that Pac really was either but I don't think he was as tight defensively for a while. That and he's been fighting for a long time for a guy that's only, what 27. And I think he relies a bit more on his speed and explosiveness than Hopkins did.
I'm not saying I think Pac's about to get old overnight, I just wonder how long he's gonna be in his true prime.
Depends on how he fights I think, if he continues to fight the way he is right now I think he has every ability to continue to be great for a long time... like Duran. THe one thing I've noticed about Pacquaio is that he still picking up new things that Roach is teaching him. He developed that right hook a few years ago, and now he's developing not only defensive skills, but also a more calculated offence that is harder to time he doesn't come in every single second still.
I also agree that Hopkins always had good technique... or at least did the funny thing about Hopkins is that he still has good reflexes(dodged a lot of Winky's jabs on reflexes alone), he has developed a really good shoulder roll, and is very hard to hit when he is fighting defensively, but generally I view him as an unorthodox fighter who does things that aren't done by the book. First of all I don't think any trainer would teach a boxer to throw lead crosses with their head facing the ground or throwing a leaping left hook without blinding speed, but Hopkins is able to do it because of his great timing, experience and footwork. As for Pacquaio I could see him having trouble at first when he moves up to lightweight if he is forced to back up, I know Hopkins had troubles with it, but Pacquaio has all those great qualities that could make him a great counter puncher, amazing footspeed, great reflexes, and superb footwork(just watch how quickly he can change directions).
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his a** when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
Besides his fight first fight with Pacquaio when did Barrera look outclassed in any of his fights until he fought Pacquiao again? Against Marquez that was a really close fight, and the judges must have been smoking something to get the scores they did. Barrera has just changed his style, he isn't just a shell of his former self. He beat Juarez just as decisively as Soto did, and Soto fought Solis until it was stopped with a headbutt, but though he had the upper hand, he didn't look anything like Pacquaio looked in there with Solis who is another underrated boxer. All this aside, I can't see how you would prefer to see a talented, and entertaining Guzman fight Marquez when a higher ranked Pacquaio who already has business to settle with JMM, and one of the most exciting styles in boxing should be every fans wish to see fight Marquez.
Well said. I actually think Barrera fought one half of a great fight plan in the rematch with Pac. He moved very well and was able to make Pac miss quite a bit. Marco just didn't have it in him to let his hands go anymore. The Marquez/Pac rematch needs to happen. They had a great first fight and almost evryone wants to see them go at again. Guzman is a real slick and talented fighter. He will be a handful for anyone. But he needs to wait for Pac and Marquez to finish their business.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his ass when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
no real point argueing. just do yourself a favor gamo and learn a few things from taeth. mab and em would of beaten anybody in the division besides pac and prolly jmm. its just the way pac beat them that makes fans like you think boxers pac hasn't fought are better. But like always after each pac fight guys like you are proven wrong and left with no choice to leave your hope on the next no-hoper that pac will beat. Jmm is who you guys should stick to, kuz ain't nobody but jmm can soundly beat pac. Its between those two really. Just kuz guzman beat soto doesn't make him suddenly in the elites. And jmm and pac are the only two elites left. Pac has taken out two of the other elites, thats why a fight with jmm is the best possible match. Any other fight for pac will be a waste of time kuz by the end of the fights pac proves guys like you wrong again. And if it wasn't jmm who he beat it would of meant nothing cause jmm is who he needs to fight and vise versa for jmm.
pac and jmm are like isreal and rafa at bantamweight. they are just a level above everyone else. guzman level wise is like caballero and valero is like de leon. Atleast it my oppinion and im sure jmm and pac will continue to prove how much above they are against the rest.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
I don't know how anyone can say yet that Guzman isn't on JMM or Pac's level when all he's done is box rings around every opponent he has faced. Until he steps up to that level you won't be able to say.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
He didn't box rings around Barios... he won a close fight there. THe point I am making is he hasn't attained that level. I think very likely he could be at an elite level, but so was Barrera the first time Pacquaio dismantled him. I think that Pacquaio makes elite fighters look bad.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
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Originally Posted by zhubin
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his a** when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
Besides his fight first fight with Pacquaio when did Barrera look outclassed in any of his fights until he fought Pacquiao again? Against Marquez that was a really close fight, and the judges must have been smoking something to get the scores they did. Barrera has just changed his style, he isn't just a shell of his former self. He beat Juarez just as decisively as Soto did, and Soto fought Solis until it was stopped with a headbutt, but though he had the upper hand, he didn't look anything like Pacquaio looked in there with Solis who is another underrated boxer. All this aside, I can't see how you would prefer to see a talented, and entertaining Guzman fight Marquez when a higher ranked Pacquaio who already has business to settle with JMM, and one of the most exciting styles in boxing should be every fans wish to see fight Marquez.
Well said. I actually think Barrera fought one half of a great fight plan in the rematch with Pac. He moved very well and was able to make Pac miss quite a bit. Marco just didn't have it in him to let his hands go anymore. The Marquez/Pac rematch needs to happen. They had a great first fight and almost evryone wants to see them go at again. Guzman is a real slick and talented fighter. He will be a handful for anyone. But he needs to wait for Pac and Marquez to finish their business.
Pacquaio landed almost 40% of his punches against Barrera :S thats a lot against a guy like Barrera... Marquez didn't land anywhere near that much.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
He didn't box rings around Barios... he won a close fight there. THe point I am making is he hasn't attained that level. I think very likely he could be at an elite level, but so was Barrera the first time Pacquaio dismantled him. I think that Pacquaio makes elite fighters look bad.
Are you joking? Guzman practically won every round against an overweight Barrios. He made him look ridiculous. Watch that fight again mate.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his a** when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
no real point argueing. just do yourself a favor gamo and learn a few things from taeth. mab and em would of beaten anybody in the division besides pac and prolly jmm. its just the way pac beat them that makes fans like you think boxers pac hasn't fought are better. But like always after each pac fight guys like you are proven wrong and left with no choice to leave your hope on the next no-hoper that pac will beat. Jmm is who you guys should stick to, kuz ain't nobody but jmm can soundly beat pac. Its between those two really. Just kuz guzman beat soto doesn't make him suddenly in the elites. And jmm and pac are the only two elites left. Pac has taken out two of the other elites, thats why a fight with jmm is the best possible match. Any other fight for pac will be a waste of time kuz by the end of the fights pac proves guys like you wrong again. And if it wasn't jmm who he beat it would of meant nothing cause jmm is who he needs to fight and vise versa for jmm.
pac and jmm are like isreal and rafa at bantamweight. they are just a level above everyone else. guzman level wise is like caballero and valero is like de leon. Atleast it my oppinion and im sure jmm and pac will continue to prove how much above they are against the rest.
that was a perfect description of the situation at super featherweight. can someone please tell me how to CC someone cause that was a post where i would've done so?
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by caleoh12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
you guys really shouldn't get too excited by guzman. yea he beat soto.....and? p4p top 3 contender are you kidding me? guzman prolly only has 3 fights left in him before weight issues or someone like jmm or pac puts him back in the shadows his always been in.
guzman should fight kat or valero. if he gets past those two then he can try his luck with jmm or pac. I think guzman is top soft for jmm and pac. these two are just hard mofo, jmm and pac are the only elites left. Nobody will really stand in there way except for eachother.
Guzman is number 3 at the weight.And I'm not even a fan of his. He would give both JMM and Pacman trouble with his style.And Guzman is anything but soft ???. I don't think he's ever been down and I've never seen him hurt.
Where the heck is Kkisser,seriously,he is the only Manny fan that actually knows his boxing.Most other Pacman fans start trying to diss any percieved "threat" to their fighter. Soto is a more dangerous and live opponent than MAB/Morales the third and Solis.By far and away.
why em i not suprise, el gamo quick to bash pac fans but his as bias as any other fan. thinking his opinions are always better. wow and you said soto is more dangerous than mab/morales the third and solis???????? well in your oppinion yes since pac is done with all three of them. what do you think soto will do any better then mab/em and solis? the em that fought pac the third time is the only man who has hit and beat pac the hardest. Pac just overcame him that does not mean soto is any better. well its always the same, the guys pac hasn't fought are better then the guys he has already finished off.
guzman jmm will be nice and all but pac jmm is the truth! i don't see why in the world would anybody think a fight with guzman will be any better? as old as guzman is, his still a level below jmm and pac. guzman can look good with guys like soto well thats becuase soto is nowhere near jmm or pacs level. its a whole new league with these two, guzman can't act all pretty and pose against them. They ain't soto.
Bias as any other fan?I have Manny as P4P top 3. Humberto Soto is more dangerous than faded version of MAB and Morales and Solis. If you don't think so,then you need to do some research and actually watch some fights. And where have I written that I think my opinion is better?
Although I certainly would like to think I justify my opinion more than certain posters who say fighters who have never been knocked out are too "soft" to fight other fighters. I gave Manny full credit for his wins over Morales the first 2 times,just because I don't kiss his a** when he beats faded fighters(MAB and Morales the third time) or unknowns(Solis) doesn't make me "biased".
no real point argueing. just do yourself a favor gamo and learn a few things from taeth. mab and em would of beaten anybody in the division besides pac and prolly jmm. its just the way pac beat them that makes fans like you think boxers pac hasn't fought are better. But like always after each pac fight guys like you are proven wrong and left with no choice to leave your hope on the next no-hoper that pac will beat. Jmm is who you guys should stick to, kuz ain't nobody but jmm can soundly beat pac. Its between those two really. Just kuz guzman beat soto doesn't make him suddenly in the elites. And jmm and pac are the only two elites left. Pac has taken out two of the other elites, thats why a fight with jmm is the best possible match. Any other fight for pac will be a waste of time kuz by the end of the fights pac proves guys like you wrong again. And if it wasn't jmm who he beat it would of meant nothing cause jmm is who he needs to fight and vise versa for jmm.
pac and jmm are like isreal and rafa at bantamweight. they are just a level above everyone else. guzman level wise is like caballero and valero is like de leon. Atleast it my oppinion and im sure jmm and pac will continue to prove how much above they are against the rest.
that was a perfect description of the situation at super featherweight. can someone please tell me how to CC someone cause that was a post where i would've done so?
Once you hit 100 posts you get the ability to coolclick ;)
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Re: F*** Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Pacquiao-Marquez II is the biggest fight that could be made in all of boxing. Only Mayweather-Cotto could match it.
Pac-Mayweather would be bigger than any of these. There's no good reason for it not to happen either (other than Arum protecting Pac) -- those two have weighed far less than a weight class apart in in-the-ring weight for their last 4-5 fights.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Pac has things to clean up at Super-Feather. I do not, for one second believe he and JMM are a level above Guzman. All it needs is for Pac or JMM to accept a challenge for that statement to be true.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
to be honest i want pacman and marquez to fight to get it over with. im sick of hearing people go on about the two of them
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
to be honest i want pacman and marquez to fight to get it over with. im sick of hearing people go on about the two of them
I agree Marquez/ Pacquiao should be next as it's been a long time coming!!! But if Pacquiao is looking at David Diaz then I for one would want to see Marquez/ Guzman.
IMO Pacquiao needs to fight one of these guys next before moving up. The Marquez fight would be for the vacant 130 pound championship. I wonder if the Ring would recognize the winner of a Pacquiao/ Guzman fight as champion?
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
to be honest i want pacman and marquez to fight to get it over with. im sick of hearing people go on about the two of them
I agree Marquez/ Pacquiao should be next as it's been a long time coming!!! But if Pacquiao is looking at David Diaz then I for one would want to see Marquez/ Guzman.
IMO Pacquiao needs to fight one of these guys next before moving up. The Marquez fight would be for the vacant 130 pound championship. I wonder if the Ring would recognize the winner of a Pacquiao/ Guzman fight as champion?
right now jmm is the champion even though pac is recognize as the best at the weight. There is nothing more important than a pac versus jmm rematch. If either fighter fights guzman before hand by the end of the fight it would of mean nothing other then guzman being defeated and cast away in the shadows again.
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Re: F$#& Pacquiao...I'd rather see JMM vs. Guzman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius "Marvelous" Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
to be honest i want pacman and marquez to fight to get it over with. im sick of hearing people go on about the two of them
I agree Marquez/ Pacquiao should be next as it's been a long time coming!!! But if Pacquiao is looking at David Diaz then I for one would want to see Marquez/ Guzman.
IMO Pacquiao needs to fight one of these guys next before moving up. The Marquez fight would be for the vacant 130 pound championship. I wonder if the Ring would recognize the winner of a Pacquiao/ Guzman fight as champion?
right now jmm is the champion even though pac is recognize as the best at the weight. There is nothing more important than a pac versus jmm rematch. If either fighter fights guzman before hand by the end of the fight it would of mean nothing other then guzman being defeated and cast away in the shadows again.
Marquez ain't champion. The Jr. L title is vacant. Pacquiao is ranked #1 & Marquez #2 by Ring magazine. I agree that a Pacquiao/ Marquez fight should happen 1st but in some instances the Ring will recognize the winner of a fight between #1 & #3 as champion.
I feel Pacquiao will move to 135 to face David Diaz so maybe Marquez can face Guzman for the championship!
