How Important is a Good Trainer?

I was having an arguement with a buddy of mine about trainers...He tried to say that the trainer does not matter...once the fighhter knows how to fight the trainer is just there more or less for workouts etc....

I tried to argue the fact that many of great fighters have been brought to new levels by a great trainer...and explained the importance of certain trainers knowing how to get the most of a fighter...

He continues to disagree...Just wondering what some of eveyones opp is on how important a good trainer is for a fighter at any level be it on a physical or mental level

Depends on both the trainer and fighter. Look at Manny with JT. Obviously Manny is a legend, but he can't seem to crack that shell known as JT's mental state. JT's got all the tools but doesn't listen, and no trainer can make him, unless they legalize firearms in the ring so Manny can stick a gun in JT's face and wake his a** up. Look at Judah, I think that is a case of bad training and weak mentality. Zab looks for sympathy with his family and seems to zone out or something, I don't know. Would be interesting to see if a different trainer could be beneficial or even more detrimental to Zab. I believe though the fighter has to want it and listen to the trainer, or it's all for nothing. Talent without focus and desire is still just talent. Just look at Balboa after Mick died ::** May be off base, just my thoughts.

Trainers are usually very important, but it also depends on the fighter. Some fighter are just disciplined and know how to train right and can correct their own mistakes most of the time. The majority of fighters need a trainer to pick up on things that the fighter may miss at the very least.

CC's to both

Yes Legion Rocky Balboa is a fine example ::** ;)

Youve got more chance with a good one than a bad one.

I think it's very important for most of your career but becomes less important after a certain level of success has been reached.

Once your level of greatness has been determined than it becomes more clear how long you need to stick with one trainer or if you are good enough to bounce around and still maintain your skill level.

I think of weight training. The idea is to have a trainer teach you how to train so that eventually you can do it on your own. A lot of people never gain the confidence they need to proceed without a trainer overseeing the entire process. I see training for fights the same way, except for sparring and hitting the mitts, you need another body for that.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Youve got more chance with a good one than a bad one.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

I think it's very important for most of your career but becomes less important after a certain level of success has been reached.

Once your level of greatness has been determined than it becomes more clear how long you need to stick with one trainer or if you are good enough to bounce around and still maintain your skill level.

I think of weight training. The idea is to have a trainer teach you how to train so that eventually you can do it on your own. A lot of people never gain the confidence they need to proceed without a trainer overseeing the entire process. I see training for fights the same way, except for sparring and hitting the mitts, you need another body for that.

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CC's for the input

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

I think it's very important for most of your career but becomes less important after a certain level of success has been reached.

Once your level of greatness has been determined than it becomes more clear how long you need to stick with one trainer or if you are good enough to bounce around and still maintain your skill level.

I think of weight training. The idea is to have a trainer teach you how to train so that eventually you can do it on your own. A lot of people never gain the confidence they need to proceed without a trainer overseeing the entire process. I see training for fights the same way, except for sparring and hitting the mitts, you need another body for that.

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Probably most experienced fighters could pretty much train themselves in as much as getting into the physical conditioning they need for a fight, providing they were motivated at least, but a trainers input is surely invaluable for coming up with a fight plan to beat a specific opponent, sort out what and when your going to eat, give you motivation and encouragement and to instill confidence.

For any up and coming fighter a decent trainer is probably really important, however I think a lot of what makes a good boxer is just the basics, heart, discipline, eat well, train hard, don't do drugs, smoking, alcohol, and get the basic boxing fundamentals in place.

Therefore I don't think you need an elite trainer to do well, but rather one who is committed to you and who ingrains in a fighter all the basics.

However to my mind the best advantage of having an elite trainer would be the sparring available. If you're a young featherweight, training with Manny Pacquaio and a host of developing Asian stars with Team Roach will bring you on a whole lot more than training in Hartlepool and sparring with Michael Hunter for example.

You should be looking to learn new things all the time, anyone that thinks they got it all down and they dont need to improve, well they are setting themselves up for a rude awakening. Even guys like Hopkins admit they dont know it all, he claimed to have picked up a few things working with Roach. Thats a 42 y.o. still learning.

However to my mind the best advantage of having an elite trainer would be the sparring available. If you're a young featherweight, training with Manny Pacquaio and a host of developing Asian stars with Team Roach will bring you on a whole lot more than training in Hartlepool and sparring with Michael Hunter for example. Bilbo


EXCELLENT Point!

I am bitter that I did not think of it ;D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

I think it's very important for most of your career but becomes less important after a certain level of success has been reached.

Once your level of greatness has been determined than it becomes more clear how long you need to stick with one trainer or if you are good enough to bounce around and still maintain your skill level.

I think of weight training. The idea is to have a trainer teach you how to train so that eventually you can do it on your own. A lot of people never gain the confidence they need to proceed without a trainer overseeing the entire process. I see training for fights the same way, except for sparring and hitting the mitts, you need another body for that.

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Probably most experienced fighters could pretty much train themselves in as much as getting into the physical conditioning they need for a fight, providing they were motivated at least, but a trainers input is surely invaluable for coming up with a fight plan to beat a specific opponent, sort out what and when your going to eat, give you motivation and encouragement and to instill confidence.

For any up and coming fighter a decent trainer is probably really important, however I think a lot of what makes a good boxer is just the basics, heart, discipline, eat well, train hard, don't do drugs, smoking, alcohol, and get the basic boxing fundamentals in place.

Therefore I don't think you need an elite trainer to do well, but rather one who is committed to you and who ingrains in a fighter all the basics.

However to my mind the best advantage of having an elite trainer would be the sparring available. If you're a young featherweight, training with Manny Pacquaio and a host of developing Asian stars with Team Roach will bring you on a whole lot more than training in Hartlepool and sparring with Michael Hunter for example.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

You should be looking to learn new things all the time, anyone that thinks they got it all down and they dont need to improve, well they are setting themselves up for a rude awakening. Even guys like Hopkins admit they dont know it all, he claimed to have picked up a few things working with Roach. Thats a 42 y.o. still learning.

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CC's for the input

Can be the missing link between good and great. There are some teams that had the same players but they didn't win titles till they got the new coach. Trainers are extremely important. I think SRL and Ali benefited greatly from working with Dundee. I think there are some that know how to teach a guy the fundamentals and develop a fighter, then there are some that just come up with the right game plan and get the fighter to listen. I think that is a big part of it also. Some guys can make a fighter listen and some can't. I know you can't "force" them, but that's the talent of some trainers.

Also every fighter needs a trainer. You need someone with an outside perspective to tell you what you are doing wrong, etc. You can't see yourself, can't watch yourself, and if you do your not doing the technique right because you are watching yourself instead of fully focusing.

You can really tell the strengths of most trainers also. McGirt is really good with relating with fighters and teaching and improving their skill set, but he's not a good strategist in my opinion. I think Steward is a good fundamentalist and strategist but he's seems to have fighters that consistently don't listen to him. I think its very interesting to see the differences brought about by trainers. To me one of the biggest examples was Tyson with Rooney and without Rooney. Dramatic difference and illustrates the point.

THe sooner the fighter starts with a good trainer the better. IF they group with a great trainer it really helps out, and makes them a better fighter. However, the trainer has to understand what strengths the fighter inherently has, and what weaknesses he naturally possesses as well. Its not just about any fighter going with any trainer, because each trainer likes to train a specific type of fighter. Steward like the tall fighters that have a good jab and right cross, Floyd Mayweather SR. likes the speedy slick fighters, Roy Jones Snr like the incredibly fast fighters (Gainer, RJJ, Mundine). Buddy likes washed up or bad fighters. The one coach who I think can really adapt and train a lot of styles is Freddie Roach, and I think it would be a benefit for any fighter to go to him. He doesn't really train guys to change their style, he integrates pieces into the style they already have which takes a lot of knowledge of both different styles, and training techniques on Roach's part.

Very important.... I mean give Joe C. a shitty trainer who's telling Joe he was loosing the fight coming into the 12th round against Kess and that he needed a KO or else he'd loose? Joes not counting the rounds in his head he's got more important things on his mind that's why he has his trainer to let him know how he's doing so yes a good trainer is indeed very important. I'm gonna give you 2 trainers a good one and a bad one.

Good Tainer: "You gotta fucken get inside of 'em now"

Bad Trainer: "The fight is hanging on this round Mel, this is the last and final round you need it"


A more recent example of how important a trainer can be is Abner watch him pre-Nacho and then watch him post-Nacho see the major difference.
Watch BCD pre-Floyd Sr. and then watch BCD post-Floyd Sr. see the major difference there.

Didn't the great Julio Ceasar Chavez train himself for like his first 80 fights or something?

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Very important.... I mean give Joe C. a shitty trainer who's telling Joe he was loosing the fight coming into the 12th round against Kess and that he needed a KO or else he'd loose? Joes not counting the rounds in his head he's got more important things on his mind that's why he has his trainer to let him know how he's doing so yes a good trainer is indeed very important. I'm gonna give you 2 trainers a good one and a bad one.

Good Tainer: "You gotta fucken get inside of 'em now"

Bad Trainer: "The fight is hanging on this round Mel, this is the last and final round you need it"


A more recent example of how important a trainer can be is Abner watch him pre-Nacho and then watch him post-Nacho see the major difference.
Watch BCD pre-Floyd Sr. and then watch BCD post-Floyd Sr. see the major difference there.

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Who was the second bad trainer quote? I got the first but the second I can't figure out.
Also you can't judge Dawson on one single fight since being with Floyd Sr. Are you suggesting that Floyd Sr is a good trainer or a bad one because I'm not sure what you meant?


*I fixed your post, you had put your comment inside of my post. :P

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Didn't the great Julio Ceasar Chavez train himself for like his first 80 fights or something?

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No, JCCs always had someone there in his corner.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Very important.... I mean give Joe C. a shitty trainer who's telling Joe he was loosing the fight coming into the 12th round against Kess and that he needed a KO or else he'd loose? Joes not counting the rounds in his head he's got more important things on his mind that's why he has his trainer to let him know how he's doing so yes a good trainer is indeed very important. I'm gonna give you 2 trainers a good one and a bad one.

Good Tainer: "You gotta fucken get inside of 'em now"

Bad Trainer: "The fight is hanging on this round Mel, this is the last and final round you need it"


A more recent example of how important a trainer can be is Abner watch him pre-Nacho and then watch him post-Nacho see the major difference.
Watch BCD pre-Floyd Sr. and then watch BCD post-Floyd Sr. see the major difference there.

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Who was the second bad trainer quote? I got the first but the second I can't figure out.
Also you can't judge Dawson on one single fight since being with Floyd Sr. Are you suggesting that Floyd Sr is a good trainer or a bad one because I'm not sure what you meant?

*I fixed your post, you had put your comment inside of my post. :P

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Duvas instructions to Meldrick coming into the 12th round of the JCC fight.
Of course I can judge BCD on 1 fight alone with Floyd, I'll tell you why because IMO theres was a major difference there.
I'm saying that BCD improved and looked A LOT better with Floyd in his corner, his defense was better and his ring generalship improved a lot more.
He moved well used the entire ring and just had a good flow in the ring.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Youve got more chance with a good one than a bad one.

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So has the trainer ;)

So true ;D cc

CC back, scrap



This question is bit of a chicken and egg job.

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

I was having an arguement with a buddy of mine about trainers...He tried to say that the trainer does not matter...once the fighhter knows how to fight the trainer is just there more or less for workouts etc....

I tried to argue the fact that many of great fighters have been brought to new levels by a great trainer...and explained the importance of certain trainers knowing how to get the most of a fighter...

He continues to disagree...Just wondering what some of eveyones opp is on how important a good trainer is for a fighter at any level be it on a physical or mental level

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Yeah those new trainers worked a treat for Tyson didnt they,who needs Cus

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

I was having an arguement with a buddy of mine about trainers...He tried to say that the trainer does not matter...once the fighhter knows how to fight the trainer is just there more or less for workouts etc....

I tried to argue the fact that many of great fighters have been brought to new levels by a great trainer...and explained the importance of certain trainers knowing how to get the most of a fighter...

He continues to disagree...Just wondering what some of eveyones opp is on how important a good trainer is for a fighter at any level be it on a physical or mental level

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A good trainer is very important. I used to have Gola...but they rubbed at the heel...but then I bough some Nike Air and now they feel great and I can run much further ;D ;D ;D

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Good Tainer: "You gotta fucken get inside of 'em now"

Bad Trainer: "The fight is hanging on this round Mel, this is the last and final round you need it"

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I like this little bit alot.

I have one of my own

Good Trainer: Your mama never read to you when you were a baby. How does that make you feel?

Bad Trainer: Stickenmoove! Stickenmoove! or Jab-Jab-Jibbity-Jab, left-hook to the belly 'cause it's nuttin' but flab

I like yours much better, Mick.

Great trainers only benefit fighters that listen. I would say that the rule of thumb is a trainer makes all the difference, you can't see what you are doing while you are doing it, I don't care how good you are or what your experience is without sparring AND a good trainer's critique you won't get to a pro level (I'm sure there are exceptions, but this is the rule of thumb)

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Originally Posted by LEGION

Depends on both the trainer and fighter. Look at Manny with JT. Obviously Manny is a legend, but he can't seem to crack that shell known as JT's mental state. JT's got all the tools but doesn't listen, and no trainer can make him, unless they legalize firearms in the ring so Manny can stick a gun in JT's face and wake his a** up. Look at Judah, I think that is a case of bad training and weak mentality. Zab looks for sympathy with his family and seems to zone out or something, I don't know. Would be interesting to see if a different trainer could be beneficial or even more detrimental to Zab. I believe though the fighter has to want it and listen to the trainer, or it's all for nothing. Talent without focus and desire is still just talent. Just look at Balboa after Mick died ::** May be off base, just my thoughts.

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Now look at Cintron! ;)

Any coach that trys to change the reason psychodynamics behind the action isnt a good coach.

Bad Trainer: Ok Zab, I wanna see bam bam bam boom. Then bah bah bah bah til you slip out.

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Originally Posted by LEGION

Depends on both the trainer and fighter. Look at Manny with JT. Obviously Manny is a legend, but he can't seem to crack that shell known as JT's mental state. JT's got all the tools but doesn't listen, and no trainer can make him, unless they legalize firearms in the ring so Manny can stick a gun in JT's face and wake his a** up. Look at Judah, I think that is a case of bad training and weak mentality. Zab looks for sympathy with his family and seems to zone out or something, I don't know. Would be interesting to see if a different trainer could be beneficial or even more detrimental to Zab. I believe though the fighter has to want it and listen to the trainer, or it's all for nothing. Talent without focus and desire is still just talent. Just look at Balboa after Mick died ::** May be off base, just my thoughts.

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Great Post! :)


I just have to add that a great trainer and a great student is KEY.

But to be a great trainer, doesn't necessarily mean your all hard on your kid fighter. Just be there to make him better. That's all your there for.

ALTHOUGH...
... a great boxer will break the rules at times and go against the trainer's wishes.

... they can't be a puppet.

Does any one agree that family members should be your trainer?
i think that they should just be left at home, i dotn want my relationship with a family member to crumble when i have to makea choice of firing him

u guys?

I think there's more than just good and bad but there's good and bad for the individual.

I've moved around a bit etc, been in some gyms with multiple trainers etc. I find everyone has a trainer they prefer and not everyone agrees.

I think style, the stage you're at and the amount of coaching you need and how much you need to talk through what you're learning or how much you need to be shown all makes a difference.