Fighters we love to hate no matter how good they are...

I got to thinking about this since it seems there is forever online wars here about Mayweather, Calzaghe and Hatton. It seems no matter what these guys do or how well they do someone is always going to find something about them to do their best and discredit what ever they have accomplished....

I guess that is one of the best things about being a fan...being able to get into a good arguement about the top guys in the sport....

So I was thinking of a few other guys in the past that no matter what they accomplished while they were fighting they never seemed to get the credit they deserve...

Lennox Lewis--The man owned the HW division for years and with the exception of the two KO losses that he avenged masterfully he was never given his due until he retired....

Hector Camacho- A two division champion that was never stopped in 85 bouts and only down a hand full of times in his career...yet it did not matter if Hector beat 6 guys in a night he was given no respect by anyone but his die hard fans

Roy Jones- At Super Middleweight he was perhaps the most talented fighter to ever grace the sport..his skill at 168 is perhaps the best I have ever seen live...yet Roy seemd to be criticized his whole career...mainly for opponent choice but at times you had to ask yourself...was his opponents that bad or was he just that good

Larry Holmes- The man to take the reigns at HW after Ali retired...came as close to Marcianos record as anyone has yet....beat top level comp but never got the respect he deserved...at times Larry was almost invisible in the eyes of the press and fans alike.....


any others anyone would like to add

Roy beat those people so bad it was criminal. Knocking guys out with his hands behind his back, he was just that good and when he was on he was the best.
Lennox my boy-o; I never get into the debates about him cause' he's my favorite all time, and I get biased so I just keep my mouth shut. He was bad and as Jones, when he was on....well, you know.
Mayweather almost seems like he wants to be hated so he can have the reason to talk about himself. He can't be humble, or so it appears on t.v. but we know you can't always make judgements by the media.
Chuvalo never seems to get the credit he deserves, you just never hear anyone mention him. I don't think people like or dislike him, he just seems forgotten at times.
Wladimir I think alot of people hate on and he's actually pretty damn good and I don't think he would have faired as bad as some think with the greats. I don't necessarily think he would have beat the greats, but think he'd have been better than generally opinioned.

All those fighter are seen by many fans as arrogant with the exception of Calzaghe and Hatton. I think that is the main reason people dont like to give them credit.

Toney.
Floyd.
Hopkins.
Wright.
Jones jr.
Cotto.
Hatton.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

All those fighter are seen by many fans as arrogant with the exception of Calzaghe and Hatton. I think that is the main reason people dont like to give them credit.

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You ever hear Calzaghe talk? He's pretty fucking arrogant

Well Paulie Malinaggi drives me up a wall worse than Floyd, though he is a good fighter. I want to see someone knock him out though.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

All those fighter are seen by many fans as arrogant with the exception of Calzaghe and Hatton. I think that is the main reason people dont like to give them credit.

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You ever hear Calzaghe talk? He's pretty F****** arrogant

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I dont think alot of people think he is. I dont, he seems pretty honest i mean he doesnt seem to have a problem admitting when he was hurt and he respects his opponents. He does act like a champion though but thats not being arrogant just confident imo.

Chris Byrd...
Vinny Pazienza
Mark Johnson
Light's Out
May(will)wither
Jones jr
J.Litzau
Eubank's
The Princess aka Naz.
all arrogant....w/skill's ?

Everyone wants paulie to loose all the time

But paulie gains respect even in loosing, that made some haters fans and other haters go nuts

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

All those fighter are seen by many fans as arrogant with the exception of Calzaghe and Hatton. I think that is the main reason people dont like to give them credit.

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You ever hear Calzaghe talk? He's pretty F****** arrogant

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I dont think alot of people think he is. I dont, he seems pretty honest i mean he doesnt seem to have a problem admitting when he was hurt and he respects his opponents. He does act like a champion though but thats not being arrogant just confident imo.

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I think I'd tend to agree with you, he is on the whole fairly honest and confident as a champion. I didn't like his dig at Hopkins recently which was a bit purile, but I think he has on and off days like the best of us. It's just no one ever prints what I say and it gets read by hundreds of thousands of people on my off days. And I suppose to put it in perspective, he's not on a par with Toney, Mayweather, RJJ et al in those arrogance stakes.

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

I got to thinking about this since it seems there is forever online wars here about Mayweather, Calzaghe and Hatton. It seems no matter what these guys do or how well they do someone is always going to find something about them to do their best and discredit what ever they have accomplished....

I guess that is one of the best things about being a fan...being able to get into a good arguement about the top guys in the sport....

So I was thinking of a few other guys in the past that no matter what they accomplished while they were fighting they never seemed to get the credit they deserve...

Lennox Lewis--The man owned the HW division for years and with the exception of the two KO losses that he avenged masterfully he was never given his due until he retired....

Hector Camacho- A two division champion that was never stopped in 85 bouts and only down a hand full of times in his career...yet it did not matter if Hector beat 6 guys in a night he was given no respect by anyone but his die hard fans

Roy Jones- At Super Middleweight he was perhaps the most talented fighter to ever grace the sport..his skill at 168 is perhaps the best I have ever seen live...yet Roy seemd to be criticized his whole career...mainly for opponent choice but at times you had to ask yourself...was his opponents that bad or was he just that good

Larry Holmes- The man to take the reigns at HW after Ali retired...came as close to Marcianos record as anyone has yet....beat top level comp but never got the respect he deserved...at times Larry was almost invisible in the eyes of the press and fans alike.....


any others anyone would like to add

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Good call on Roy. I for one just thought he was an asshole and a hotdog and supremely egotistical. Good Boxer though.

I dont kno why people hate Hatton.....
He's a humble down to earth family..
Wants to always fight the best
Some people say he does to much hugging/wrestling but thats bull,apart from the collazo and Urango fight he doesnt really,he's one of the most exciting boxers in the world
Plus,he's a funny lad...

so i dont c how people dont like him,i think its just bias agains British fighters from the Americans...
I believe that and im Irish

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Originally Posted by fin

I dont kno why people hate Hatton.....
He's a humble down to earth family..
Wants to always fight the best
Some people say he does to much hugging/wrestling but thats bull,apart from the collazo and Urango fight he doesnt really,he's one of the most exciting boxers in the world
Plus,he's a funny lad...

so i dont c how people dont like him,i think its just bias agains British fighters from the Americans...
I believe that and im Irish

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im also irish-and i hav 2 say a big hatton fan(also a mayweather-he's a dick but fuckin hell he's good)
Its a testament 2 hatton that irish people r becoming fans-that takes some doin when your english-fair play he's a good lad.

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Originally Posted by fin

I dont kno why people hate Hatton.....
He's a humble down to earth family..
Wants to always fight the best
Some people say he does to much hugging/wrestling but thats bull,apart from the collazo and Urango fight he doesnt really,he's one of the most exciting boxers in the world
Plus,he's a funny lad...

so i dont c how people dont like him,i think its just bias agains British fighters from the Americans...
I believe that and im Irish

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There is no bias towards Hatton by Americans
He's a sloppy fighter,so he's not exciting,it turns some people off. But I know for a fact that at least one major gym in the midwest is praying that Ricky shuts Floyd's yap.
I dont think it happens,and not that I wouldnt like to see it too,I just Floyd is not going to be there to play to Ricky's strengths

Hopkins is da man!

He's not exciting?ok,well lets look at his 6 fights

Castillo....both stood in front of each other and traded,hatton then knocks him out wit a body shot
Urango-boring fight
Collazo-while he did too much holding it was still a good fight
Maussa-non stop attacking from ricky wit one of the best knockout punches of the last few years
Tsyzu-Hatton non stop attacking
Olivera-Hatton beating him up with vicious body and head attack,stops him in ten,olivera on the floor twice
Mike Stewart-Knocked him down 3 times,And great finish.
As well as exciting early fights,so how is Hatton not exciting?

He holds too much,its the same complaint people have had about Hopkins all through his career
And last I checked Hopkins is from Philadelphia,which just happens to be in the US

In the correct order:

1st) Paulie Malignaggi- Stupid haircut, no power whatsoever, who has he beat??, arrogant loud mouthed twat.

2nd) Joe Calzaghe- Stay at home boy, waste of British talent, fought 1 great opponent in 44 fights.

I'd say Jack Johnson was pretty hated back in the day, probably because he was so good{and Black ::**}

Ricky is exciting,apart from the Urango fight...
If u dont think he's exciting then u either hate Hatton or dont know wat your looking at...

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Originally Posted by fin

Ricky is exciting,apart from the Urango fight...
If u dont think he's exciting then u either hate Hatton or dont know wat your looking at...

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Heres a hint,most casual boxing fans dont know what theyre looking at.
Im a huge Hopkins fan,but until recent years he was considered a dull fighter as well
I like Hatton,but he isnt exactly Vinnie Paz,and Im hoping he shuts Floyd's yap
What is it with British fight fans and their persecution complex?

Well im Irish first of all,not British,maybe its because anytime a brit is involved in a big fight wit an american then he's the undedog or given no chance by American fight fans or Journalists..


Hatton vs Mayweather..
Calzaghe vs Lacy.. are a couple of mentions

Im neutral but even i can c the anti britishness...

And Hopkins is just plain boring,Usually wins on points in dull fights...
Ricky is exciting to watch,come on,watch his fights,u kno he is..

Oh do please,anybody with half a clue would have thought Lacy was the underdog in that fight,anybody who didnt was clueless
Mayweather is the fave because he's Mayweather,I dont like the guy one iota,because he's a yapping little puppy,but he's talented and a known entity
Tito was a massive fave against Hopkins,,a bigger fave then Mayweather is by far,was it because of the Anti-US bias of US writers?

Well Lacy was the betting fav,and all the American Magazines and websites had him as the fav..
I dont hav a problem wit Floyd being the fav and rightly so he should,wat i hav a problem with is the fact that Ricky is given no chance and it being said it will be like the Gatti fight....

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Originally Posted by fin

Well Lacy was the betting fav,and all the American Magazines and websites had him as the fav..
I dont hav a problem wit Floyd being the fav and rightly so he should,wat i hav a problem with is the fact that Ricky is given no chance and it being said it will be like the Gatti fight....

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Trust me,nothing would make me happier then to see Floyd lying on his back,I just dont see it happening.
I think he moves to well for Ricky to get to him,same as the Manfredy fight.
And I desperatly wanted Angel to win that fight,Im a huge Manfredy fan,but I see the fight going the same way that one did.
Id happily be wrong about it though

If floyd loses i cant wait to c how he will respond after the fight to Larry Merchant....

Hopkins is da man

Yeh its a pity the man is afraid of Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by fin

If floyd loses i cant wait to c how he will respond after the fight to Larry Merchant....

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Im kind of curious to see what kind of PPV numbers this fight does.
Mayweather isnt nearly the commodity he thinks he is because of his run for the hills style,and Hattons not big bank because he isnt very well known and is a hold and hit guy,not to mention theyre going to be charging a small fortune for it

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Originally Posted by fin

Hopkins is da man

Yeh its a pity the man is afraid of Joe Calzaghe

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Not even a little bit,your buying the Frank Warren party line
They did this type of trash talk to get Jones to travel to Wales and fight on the cheap as well.
You want Hopkins,you fight him on his terms
You dont like his terms,tough,he isnt going to kowtow to any promoter,and if he can stick it up Don Kings jumper,Warren has no shot of getting his way.

Well he turned millions down to fight him 5 years ago...
And now his trainer is saying that b hop should fight the winner of roy and tito

So he should fight either a guy he beat easy years ago that is semi retired or a guy that is shot that has been knocked out twice in the last few years...

Calzaghe is quicker,younger,throws more punches..
b hop would lose and he knows it..

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Originally Posted by fin

Well he turned millions down to fight him 5 years ago...
And now his trainer is saying that b hop should fight the winner of roy and tito

So he should fight either a guy he beat easy years ago that is semi retired or a guy that is shot that has been knocked out twice in the last few years...

Calzaghe is quicker,younger,throws more punches..
b hop would lose and he knows it..

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No he doesnt,I really wish Hop would retire he's an old man,but he has no quit and certainly no run.
Man talk about having a bias?
Theres no way Bernard agrees to the unification tournament,and theres certainly no way he beats Tito.
Guess what happened?
Well theres no way he'll ever agree to fight Taylor
Ok he fought Taylor twice,but theres no way he can go up in weight against Tarver
Ok he won that one but theres no way he can beat a defensive technician like Wright
Its getting very old

Warren allways try to strong arm people to make sure it happens in the back yard. Hopkins isnt going to be dictated to. Kessler let himself be dictated to,that turned out great for him

I dont like Frank Warren and i think Joe should fight B hop in America,even tho b hop cant draw flies to shit and a fight in wales would bring 60 thousand....,but I would like to c joe go to America and beat him..but b hop dont want the fight,he didnt want it a few years ago and dont want it now....

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Originally Posted by fin

I dont like Frank Warren and i think Joe should fight B hop in America,even tho b hop cant draw flies to S*** and a fight in wales would bring 60 thousand....,but I would like to c joe go to America and beat him..but b hop dont want the fight,he didnt want it a few years ago and dont want it now....

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Why cant you guys ever understand how boxing works,where the money really is,and that the US isnt like Isles
Do you have any idea what one guy like say Trump,will drop on the table in a Casino in Vegas
Here,Ill explain,its alot more money then 10,000 of those punters would have paid right there
And thats one guy
Now picture 3000 of that level of high roller
On top of that,Calzaghe would have a better chance of getting a decision in say,Boston,then Hopkins.
In the states we have no WW2 to create a feeling of we're all in this together. We hate eachother in the states like Liverpool and Manchester,but with higher caliber weapons

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by fin

I dont like Frank Warren and i think Joe should fight B hop in America,even tho b hop cant draw flies to S*** and a fight in wales would bring 60 thousand....,but I would like to c joe go to America and beat him..but b hop dont want the fight,he didnt want it a few years ago and dont want it now....

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Why cant you guys ever understand how boxing works,where the money really is,and that the US isnt like Isles
Do you have any idea what one guy like say Trump,will drop on the table in a Casino in Vegas
Here,Ill explain,its alot more money then 10,000 of those punters would have paid right there
And thats one guy
Now picture 3000 of that level of high roller
On top of that,Calzaghe would have a better chance of getting a decision in say,Boston,then Hopkins.
In the states we have no WW2 to create a feeling of we're all in this together. We hate eachother in the states like Liverpool and Manchester,but with higher caliber weapons

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Then why can't even Hopkins' best offer $8 million, only just beat the best purse that these poverty-stricken 60,000 provided Kessler with last month? If the money there is as good as you stay, surely he could easily front up twice that?

mayweather
hopkins
calzaghe
miguel cotto
wladamir klitscko
roy jones jr

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Originally Posted by fin

He's not exciting?ok,well lets look at his 6 fights

Castillo....both stood in front of each other and traded,hatton then knocks him out wit a body shot
Urango-boring fight
Collazo-while he did too much holding it was still a good fight
Maussa-non stop attacking from ricky wit one of the best knockout punches of the last few years
Tsyzu-Hatton non stop attacking
Olivera-Hatton beating him up with vicious body and head attack,stops him in ten,olivera on the floor twice
Mike Stewart-Knocked him down 3 times,And great finish.
As well as exciting early fights,so how is Hatton not exciting?

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The Maussa fight was rubbish imo, Maussa fights like he has only put gloves on for the first time and he turns any fight into a non watchable fight.

I didn't think Tszyu fight was great either too much clinching, thats why i don't like Hatton's style alot of his fights involve messy fighting plus too much clinching just not my taste.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by fin

If floyd loses i cant wait to c how he will respond after the fight to Larry Merchant....

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Im kind of curious to see what kind of PPV numbers this fight does.
Mayweather isnt nearly the commodity he thinks he is because of his run for the hills style,and Hattons not big bank because he isnt very well known and is a hold and hit guy,not to mention theyre going to be charging a small fortune for it

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Mayweather doesn't run i think your find most of his fights he has stayed in punching range. Most of his fights have been exciting to watch except a few of his latest fights.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by fin

I dont like Frank Warren and i think Joe should fight B hop in America,even tho b hop cant draw flies to S*** and a fight in wales would bring 60 thousand....,but I would like to c joe go to America and beat him..but b hop dont want the fight,he didnt want it a few years ago and dont want it now....

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Why cant you guys ever understand how boxing works,where the money really is,and that the US isnt like Isles
Do you have any idea what one guy like say Trump,will drop on the table in a Casino in Vegas
Here,Ill explain,its alot more money then 10,000 of those punters would have paid right there
And thats one guy
Now picture 3000 of that level of high roller
On top of that,Calzaghe would have a better chance of getting a decision in say,Boston,then Hopkins.
In the states we have no WW2 to create a feeling of we're all in this together. We hate eachother in the states like Liverpool and Manchester,but with higher caliber weapons

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Then why can't even Hopkins' best offer $8 million, only just beat the best purse that these poverty-stricken 60,000 provided Kessler with last month? If the money there is as good as you stay, surely he could easily front up twice that?

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Why would they?
Joe said he wanted 5 million right after the Kessler fight,now 8 isnt good enough?
Not to mention the fight would be sold on Bernards name,not Joes.
A clue for you,Calzaghe/Kessler wasnt even a pay per view here,it was a freebie on HBO
Its all Frank Warren BS sorry to disapoint you

Calzaghe for me bet that shocked a few people ;D 43-0 is a great record but im still not impressed with what he has achieved i think he left his best fights to late in his career.Yes he beat Lacy and Kessler hat off to him for that but to hear Joe talk you would think he had done so much more.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by fin

I dont like Frank Warren and i think Joe should fight B hop in America,even tho b hop cant draw flies to S*** and a fight in wales would bring 60 thousand....,but I would like to c joe go to America and beat him..but b hop dont want the fight,he didnt want it a few years ago and dont want it now....

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Why cant you guys ever understand how boxing works,where the money really is,and that the US isnt like Isles
Do you have any idea what one guy like say Trump,will drop on the table in a Casino in Vegas
Here,Ill explain,its alot more money then 10,000 of those punters would have paid right there
And thats one guy
Now picture 3000 of that level of high roller
On top of that,Calzaghe would have a better chance of getting a decision in say,Boston,then Hopkins.
In the states we have no WW2 to create a feeling of we're all in this together. We hate eachother in the states like Liverpool and Manchester,but with higher caliber weapons

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Then why can't even Hopkins' best offer $8 million, only just beat the best purse that these poverty-stricken 60,000 provided Kessler with last month? If the money there is as good as you stay, surely he could easily front up twice that?

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Why would they?
Joe said he wanted 5 million right after the Kessler fight,now 8 isnt good enough?
Not to mention the fight would be sold on Bernards name,not Joes.
A clue for you,Calzaghe/Kessler wasnt even a pay per view here,it was a freebie on HBO
Its all Frank Warren BS sorry to disapoint you

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Calzaghe probably wanted £5 million instead of dollars. Latest news in the UK is that Hopkins offered a smudge over £2 million, which isn't even $5 million US. Let's face it mate, the total purse would be huge for this one, so why is Hopkins' people offering such a paltry sum which won't even beat Calzaghe's career highest purse? Your previous argument was that the money was so much better in Vegas, yet Hopkins' people can't offer decent money to Calzaghe? I'm afraid that either sounds like Hopkins BS or you having way over-exaggerated the money that is available to make the fight in Vegas.