I Told Everyone Swarming Isn't The Way To Beat Mayweather

I said Hatton would end up like Jesus Chavez, and he did. Mayweather has fought all types of swarmers, Ndou, Chavez, Castillo, Hatton, swarming just doesn't work against someone like Mayweather. I feel someone with a good jab and speed like Oscar De La Hoya, would trouble Mayweather more, or someone like Judah without the weak mentality. Cotto's controlled aggression will work better than Hatton's swarming style, but he will end up like Castillo did in the 2nd fight. Completely outboxed and not being able to get his punches off quick enough, the only Welterweight out there that i can see beating Mayweather is Paul Williams, based on all the obvious things like, height, reach, workrate, plus he uses great angle's and he has some impressive skills. But overall as Mayweather fan im glad he beat Hatton in impressive fashion now i hope, the haters realize like they should of done from day 1 that Mayweather is one of the greats.

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

I wish Cortez would have let this fight play out a little more. I mean Joe was breaking up the fighters before they even got near each other. I guess it is time to make a video and just point out how many times Joe just jumped in and stopped some action that was going to be initiated by Hatton.

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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No it isn't swarming does not work, Mayweather picks you off with counter shots. And makes you waste too much energy. If Swarming was the key to beat Mayweather he would of lost to Chavez, Castillo x2, Hatton.

People make too much of talking about what style will beat Floyd. At the end of the day it's not that nobody has the style to beat him but rather that there is simply nobody as good as him right now.

He's the best p4p fighter in the world bar none, that's why he keeps winning. Ricky lost because he's not as good as Floyd ultimately not because he had the wrong style.

Hatton was never the biggest test for Floyd though, Cotto, Williams, Mosely, Margarito are all tougher fights than Hatton who is really not a welterweight. That said, Floyd would have beaten him at any weight.

I think if Floyd ever has an undoing it will be due to the size and strength disadvantages he has against a really big guy.

Against someone his own size Floyd is nigh on unbeatable (at least as far as the current crop of challengers) but a big awkward guy like Paul Williams, who looks like he should fight at middleweight could represent a real hardship for Floyd due to the sheer size difference.

Not that Floyd is ever likely to face Williams though and why should he?

Right now the only fight that makes sense for Floyd is a showdown with Miguel Cotto

If I was Floyd I'd take a year off, let Cotto fight and beat either Paul Williams or Margarito and then fight him.

For it to be the legacy defining, and bank account bulging fight that Floyd wants Cotto needs to be absolutely established as the number one challenger.

If when Cotto achieves that we should have one hell of a fight on our hands although I feel that Floyd will be victorious once again.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

People make too much of talking about what style will beat Floyd. At the end of the day it's not that nobody has the style to beat him but rather that there is simply nobody as good as him right now.

He's the best p4p fighter in the world bar none, that's why he keeps winning. Ricky lost because he's not as good as Floyd ultimately not because he had the wrong style.

Hatton was never the biggest test for Floyd though, Cotto, Williams, Mosely, Margarito are all tougher fights than Hatton who is really not a welterweight. That said, Floyd would have beaten him at any weight.

I think if Floyd ever has an undoing it will be due to the size and strength disadvantages he has against a really big guy.

Against someone his own size Floyd is nigh on unbeatable (at least as far as the current crop of challengers) but a big awkward guy like Paul Williams, who looks like he should fight at middleweight could represent a real hardship for Floyd due to the sheer size difference.

Not that Floyd is ever likely to face Williams though and why should he?

Right now the only fight that makes sense for Floyd is a showdown with Miguel Cotto

If I was Floyd I'd take a year off, let Cotto fight and beat either Paul Williams or Margarito and then fight him.

For it to be the legacy defining, and bank account bulging fight that Floyd wants Cotto needs to be absolutely established as the number one challenger.

If when Cotto achieves that we should have one hell of a fight on our hands although I feel that Floyd will be victorious once again.

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CC in 24. I was going to say basically the same thing,especially the highlighted. Swarming,boxing,etc etc is irrelevant. If swarming isn't the right style,what is,boxing him?No,there is no "right" style. Good posting Bilbo,and I gree,it'll be someone big and awkward who could beat him.

theres no blue print on beating floyd. It would take someone that will just pull it off. Someone that will really walk the walk. Someone with a mean streak in the ring and can hit like a mual, and can out speed sugar shane. Someone that will not fold under any pressure someone that can adapt with a B or C plan. Someone like el torro mismo the new tito, mi-el cotto. ;D

Sweetpea,

Based on your post, I guarantee you've never set foot in a ring. Not swarming, that's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.

You BOX a fighter, and you FIGHT a boxer. In this fight, who's the boxer and who's the fighter? Pretty obvious.

You also don't stand back and try to jab/outfight with a guy who's got magnitues more hand speed than you, AND about 5" reach advantage.

What Ricky was doing was the only chance he had.




With that said, Floyd is just better. Hats of to Hatton... he gave him a tough time early on, but he gassed just enough to allow PBF to use his speed.

Actually it was working well...Problem is Hatton did it a little carelessly....A bit more controlled and a bit more head movement..(something hatton seemed to abandon last night).....Hatton needed to take a step back now and then when Floyd was on the ropes instead of tangling with him....

But could of, should have, would have means nothing now :-\

IMO even after the fight I went over in my head all of Floyds performances in his career and the Hatton fight last night and tried to put him against Leonard or Hearns in their primes and in all honesty
(and I know I will get some flack on this one)....I see both men dispactching of Floyd.....Hearns would be waaay to strong and Floyd would not connect...Leonard would not only bully Floyd but out fight him or out box him when need be....

Floyd had a good win last night but it took 7 rds to get going....something that he would not be able to afford against the two mentioned

Infact im a amateur boxer so i find that comment rude, and disrespectful and why is the word *swarming* dumb to you ?? its a boxing term to describe a certain style of boxing ::**


You BOX a fighter, and you FIGHT a boxer. In this fight, who's the boxer and who's the fighter? Pretty obvious.

Thanks for stating that captain obvious ::**


You also don't stand back and try to jab/outfight with a guy who's got magnitues more hand speed than you, AND about 5" reach advantage.

What Ricky was doing was the only chance he had.

Your babbling on about something that i never even said.

As I've said, ability to take the punches of Floyd and abiity to pressure him was Hatton's only chance. Clearly, Hatton couldn't take Floyd's punches well, but when he did pressure him on the first few rounds, he did put Floyd in some trouble. But he used up most of his energy doing so where instead he should have paced himself more, not that it would have mattered.

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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Right, except Hatton wasn't swarming, he was just using hit-and-hold tactic. A good example of swarming is what Juarez did to Barrera on their first fight. If you watch that, you'll know the big difference between real swarming and what Hatton did. Juarez attacked Barrera with short crisp hooks and uppers without letup while Hatton just hit Floyd couple of times and held on to him right after almost every inside attack.

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

Actually it was working well...Problem is Hatton did it a little carelessly....A bit more controlled and a bit more head movement..(something hatton seemed to abandon last night).....Hatton needed to take a step back now and then when Floyd was on the ropes instead of tangling with him....

But could of, should have, would have means nothing now :-\

IMO even after the fight I went over in my head all of Floyds performances in his career and the Hatton fight last night and tried to put him against Leonard or Hearns in their primes and in all honesty
(and I know I will get some flack on this one)....I see both men dispactching of Floyd.....Hearns would be waaay to strong and Floyd would not connect...Leonard would not only bully Floyd but out fight him or out box him when need be....

Floyd had a good win last night but it took 7 rds to get going....something that he would not be able to afford against the two mentioned

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It's not really fair to compare Hearns and Leonard with Floyd directly though. Hearns was simply massive and Leonard is a lot bigger than Floyd.

I'd expect both Hearns and Leonard to be big too big for Floyd in a real fight but p4p he's right up there.

If Floyd and Hearns were the same size, no way Hearns wins that imo. Leonard would be a really tought fight, but again Floyd has never lost, he's always adjusted even mid fight to make sure he gets the win so I really don't see a case for saying Hearns or Leonard would easily beat him other than the for the fact they are both so much bigger.

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

I said Hatton would end up like Jesus Chavez, and he did. Mayweather has fought all types of swarmers, Ndou, Chavez, Castillo, Hatton, swarming just doesn't work against someone like Mayweather. I feel someone with a good jab and speed like Oscar De La Hoya, would trouble Mayweather more, or someone like Judah without the weak mentality. Cotto's controlled aggression will work better than Hatton's swarming style, but he will end up like Castillo did in the 2nd fight. Completely outboxed and not being able to get his punches off quick enough, the only Welterweight out there that i can see beating Mayweather is Paul Williams, based on all the obvious things like, height, reach, workrate, plus he uses great angle's and he has some impressive skills. But overall as Mayweather fan im glad he beat Hatton in impressive fashion now i hope, the haters realize like they should of done from day 1 that Mayweather is one of the greats.

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I agree completely dude. Hatton should have just went to the body at a controlled pace, though I know that is not his style. What happened to Ricky's body attack? It was non-existent. Cotto definitely has what it takes to present Floyd with the style that can beat him. But the way it looks, Foyd I am sure will come up with something to defeat Cotto.

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Originally Posted by penalosafan

As I've said, ability to take the punches of Floyd and abiity to pressure him was Hatton's only chance. Clearly, Hatton couldn't take Floyd's punches well, but when he did pressure him on the first few rounds, he did put Floyd in some trouble. But he used up most of his energy doing so where instead he should have paced himself more, not that it would have mattered.

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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Right, except Hatton wasn't swarming, he was just using hit-and-hold tactic. A good example of swarming is what Juarez did to Barrera on their first fight. If you watch that, you'll know the big difference between real swarming and what Hatton did. Juarez attacked Barrera with short crisp hooks and uppers without letup while Hatton just hit Floyd couple of times and held on to him right after almost every inside attack.

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CC bro for that point, Hatton pissed me off when he went in as he had no defence watsoever and just got picked off. In The Ring mag when they asked 20 experts for their view apart from Paulie "I am the man" Malignaggi, Buddy McGirt's comment has been on my mind the past couple of weeks as he too said this would be very easy for Floyd saying Hatton would just come in and PBF would pick him off all night for a late stoppage and looking back McGirt's view was perfect and that's exactly what happened.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

Actually it was working well...Problem is Hatton did it a little carelessly....A bit more controlled and a bit more head movement..(something hatton seemed to abandon last night).....Hatton needed to take a step back now and then when Floyd was on the ropes instead of tangling with him....

But could of, should have, would have means nothing now :-\

IMO even after the fight I went over in my head all of Floyds performances in his career and the Hatton fight last night and tried to put him against Leonard or Hearns in their primes and in all honesty
(and I know I will get some flack on this one)....I see both men dispactching of Floyd.....Hearns would be waaay to strong and Floyd would not connect...Leonard would not only bully Floyd but out fight him or out box him when need be....

Floyd had a good win last night but it took 7 rds to get going....something that he would not be able to afford against the two mentioned

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It's not really fair to compare Hearns and Leonard with Floyd directly though. Hearns was simply massive and Leonard is a lot bigger than Floyd.

I'd expect both Hearns and Leonard to be big too big for Floyd in a real fight but p4p he's right up there.

If Floyd and Hearns were the same size, no way Hearns wins that imo. Leonard would be a really tought fight, but again Floyd has never lost, he's always adjusted even mid fight to make sure he gets the win so I really don't see a case for saying Hearns or Leonard would easily beat him other than the for the fact they are both so much bigger.

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I see your point but fact is Floyd likes to say he is the P4P best of all time...(we have all heard him say at least once he is better then even Robinson)....So with that being said you have to use the best to ever grace his perspective division to measure against....Those are two of the best fighters top ever not only grace the division but both are in the top 50 P4P....I would even say 30......

Effective aggression is the way to beat Mayweather. Hatton, Castillo, Chavez and De La Hoya all found success when they took the fight to him and worked while Floyd was on the ropes. Most of the time these guys were sloppy when they had him there, but the ropes is the place to beat him. One think that Floyd has done a lot more of lately is backing himself to the ropes. Im not hating on him, but that is a fact if youve watched him coming up over the years you will have noticed this too. Hattons problem (aside from being overmatched) is he wound have floyd on the ropes and immediately hold. Sometimes hed land one punch then hold. That is not enough though. Swarming him intelligently is the way to beat Mayweather though.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Effective aggression is the way to beat Mayweather. Hatton, Castillo, Chavez and De La Hoya all found success when they took the fight to him and worked while Floyd was on the ropes. Most of the time these guys were sloppy when they had him there, but the ropes is the place to beat him. One think that Floyd has done a lot more of lately is backing himself to the ropes. Im not hating on him, but that is a fact if youve watched him coming up over the years you will have noticed this too. Hattons problem (aside from being overmatched) is he wound have floyd on the ropes and immediately hold. Sometimes hed land one punch then hold. That is not enough though. Swarming him intelligently is the way to beat Mayweather though.

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I think PBF using his elbows and forearms is what prevented Hatton from punching on the inside. PBF was holding and pushing Hattons face with his forearms. I didn't think Hatton was doing much holding until after the 6th. There was alot of wrestling because PBF was holding. Hatton would get hit coming in, then PBF would grab and Hatton didn't get to punch so he pushed and shoved trying to get free, then PBF starts with the elbows and forearms across the face. It was very effective.

Hattons downfall was not jabbing his way in, and keeping his hands low coming in. But he was overmatched from the getgo.

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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No it isn't swarming does not work, Mayweather picks you off with counter shots. And makes you waste too much energy. If Swarming was the key to beat Mayweather he would of lost to Chavez, Castillo x2, Hatton.

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That statment is total rubbish , Mayweather was just to good for the SWARMERS Hatton - Castillo - Chavez , just the same as he has been to good for all the BOXERS he has fought.
So going off your theory you cant box or swarm him as people have tried that before , so r u saying Mayweather is totally unbeatable ??????? please explain ?????

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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No it isn't swarming does not work, Mayweather picks you off with counter shots. And makes you waste too much energy. If Swarming was the key to beat Mayweather he would of lost to Chavez, Castillo x2, Hatton.

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That statment is total rubbish , Mayweather was just to good for the SWARMERS Hatton - Castillo - Chavez , just the same as he has been to good for all the BOXERS he has fought.
So going off your theory you cant box or swarm him as people have tried that before , so r u saying Mayweather is totally unbeatable ??????? please explain ?????

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Plenty of styles work, take Oscar De La Hoya's style for example was working well, he was using his jab to good effect until he faded in the last 4 rounds. Or Take Judah's style that was working good as well but he couldn't keep it together mentality wise i just don't get why everyone thinks swarming is the only way to beat Mayweather when it isn't.

You just went off on one when i didn't even say Mayweather was unbeatable.

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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No it isn't swarming does not work, Mayweather picks you off with counter shots. And makes you waste too much energy. If Swarming was the key to beat Mayweather he would of lost to Chavez, Castillo x2, Hatton.

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That statment is total rubbish , Mayweather was just to good for the SWARMERS Hatton - Castillo - Chavez , just the same as he has been to good for all the BOXERS he has fought.
So going off your theory you cant box or swarm him as people have tried that before , so r u saying Mayweather is totally unbeatable ??????? please explain ?????

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Plenty of styles work, take Oscar De La Hoya's style for example was working well until he faded in the last 4 rounds. Or Take Judah's style that was working good aswell but he couldn't keep it together mentality wise i just don't get why everyone thinks swarming is the only way to be Mayweather when it isn't.

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I DIDNT SAY IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!
i was stating that the guys who have tried were not good enough.
you didnt define wot Oscar's style was ???????? please explain e.g if Hatton is a SWARMER ???
Your argument is full of holes.
as for me i think wotever your style it depends on how good you are at carrying it out , dictates the outcome of a fight.
I think Tommy Hearns would have a good style to beat Floyd , or Maybe Sweetpea , as for SWARMERS id give DURAN a chance , maybe Henry Armstrong . see my point it depends how good you are.

Swarming will never work against Floyd as long as he's in his prime. The only style that could bother him is an attack based around a long jab.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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No it isn't swarming does not work, Mayweather picks you off with counter shots. And makes you waste too much energy. If Swarming was the key to beat Mayweather he would of lost to Chavez, Castillo x2, Hatton.

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That statment is total rubbish , Mayweather was just to good for the SWARMERS Hatton - Castillo - Chavez , just the same as he has been to good for all the BOXERS he has fought.
So going off your theory you cant box or swarm him as people have tried that before , so r u saying Mayweather is totally unbeatable ??????? please explain ?????

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Plenty of styles work, take Oscar De La Hoya's style for example was working well until he faded in the last 4 rounds. Or Take Judah's style that was working good aswell but he couldn't keep it together mentality wise i just don't get why everyone thinks swarming is the only way to be Mayweather when it isn't.

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I DIDNT SAY IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!
i was stating that the guys who have tried were not good enough.
you didnt define wot Oscar's style was ???????? please explain e.g if Hatton is a SWARMER ???
Your argument is full of holes.
as for me i think wotever your style it depends on how good you are at carrying it out , dictates the outcome of a fight.
I think Tommy Hearns would have a good style to beat Floyd , or Maybe Sweetpea , as for SWARMERS id give DURAN a chance , maybe Henry Armstrong . see my point it depends how good you are.

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I DIDNT SAY IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said you did thats why in my original comment i said *everyone* maybe i worded it wrong but i didn't mean you.

i was stating that the guys who have tried were not good enough.

Swarming just doesn't work, Mayweather has dealt with all forms of swarming. And passed with flying colors.

you didnt define wot Oscar's style was ???????? please explain e.g if Hatton is a SWARMER ???
Your argument is full of holes.

Oscar De La Hoya put smart effective pressure on Mayweather, and he used his jab to good effect, and yes Hatton is what i would class as a swarmer.

I think Tommy Hearns would have a good style to beat Floyd , or Maybe Sweetpea , as for SWARMERS id give DURAN a chance , maybe Henry Armstrong . see my point it depends how good you are.

Duran puts smart effective pressure on, he is very skilled aggressor with good defense. The only problem is that Duran struggled with fast fighters like Kirkland Laing, Robbie Simms, who were only average fighters and they out boxed him quite comfortably.

Whitaker vs Mayweather would be called No Conest because they wouldn't land any punches on eachother.

I haven't seen enough of Armstrong to know if he could really trouble Mayweather or not.

Ricky, no jab, lack off head movement, no body attack, not taking a step back giving himself room to work on the ropes, too eager.

Sweet Pea makes good points ;)

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Originally Posted by Missy

Ricky, no jab, lack off head movement, no body attack, not taking a step back giving himself room to work on the ropes, too eager.

Sweet Pea makes good points ;)

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Exactly, and at LWW he got away with these things cause he could impose his stregnth on his opponents and break them, at WW he wont be able to do this as easily and he doesnt have the skill to make up for it. Hes great at what he does, but he can really only fight one way. He should end his career at Light welterweight imo cause he will have limited sucess at Welterweight.

I dont think it comes down to styles when it comes to Mayweather because he is just so adapatable.

Chavez, Judah and Oscar all had their moments against Floyd and they all had very contrasting styles. Floyd was able to adapt or else simply turn it up when he so desired.

He conserves energy so well and then when the opponent shows the slightest inkling of slowing he just turns it up.

To beat Floyd your going to have to do or have one of three things

1) Hold some serious physical aces over him (Williams)

2) Apply steady educated pressure that flows from a good jab (Cotto might do this)

3) Simply be more talented than him (never going to happen)

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Originally Posted by Memphis

To beat Floyd your going to have to do or have one of three things

1) Hold some serious physical aces over him (Williams)

2) Apply steady educated pressure that flows from a good jab (Cotto might do this)

3) Simply be more talented than him (never going to happen)

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Your spot on with the first two Memphis totally agree.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

To beat Floyd your going to have to do or have one of three things

1) Hold some serious physical aces over him (Williams)

2) Apply steady educated pressure that flows from a good jab (Cotto might do this)

3) Simply be more talented than him (never going to happen)

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chip in for a time machine and send DLH back 3 years ;D

agreed mate, how many of mayweathers oppenents have tried this tactic to pressure mayweather. 39-0 is the only stat you need to know that this clearly doesnt work and mayweather is quite simply a cut above the rest

CC to Bilbo for his original post.

It just don't matter what style you have. If you ain't good enough to pull it off than you ain't gonna beat Mayweather. And very few people are good enough.

If I had to pick a style to beat Floyd I'de say Boxer/Puncher. But he would have to be real good and he would have to have a hell of a punch. Unfortunatly there is currently no WW who fits this description.

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Originally Posted by OwnedbyICB

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Originally Posted by penalosafan

As I've said, ability to take the punches of Floyd and abiity to pressure him was Hatton's only chance. Clearly, Hatton couldn't take Floyd's punches well, but when he did pressure him on the first few rounds, he did put Floyd in some trouble. But he used up most of his energy doing so where instead he should have paced himself more, not that it would have mattered.

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Swarming is the only way of having a chance to beat mayweather. Boxing mayweather from the outside doesn't work either.

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Right, except Hatton wasn't swarming, he was just using hit-and-hold tactic. A good example of swarming is what Juarez did to Barrera on their first fight. If you watch that, you'll know the big difference between real swarming and what Hatton did. Juarez attacked Barrera with short crisp hooks and uppers without letup while Hatton just hit Floyd couple of times and held on to him right after almost every inside attack.

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CC bro for that point, Hatton pissed me off when he went in as he had no defence watsoever and just got picked off. In The Ring mag when they asked 20 experts for their view apart from Paulie "I am the man" Malignaggi, Buddy McGirt's comment has been on my mind the past couple of weeks as he too said this would be very easy for Floyd saying Hatton would just come in and PBF would pick him off all night for a late stoppage and looking back McGirt's view was perfect and that's exactly what happened.

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CC back, bro. Yup, knowing their clear-cup styles, this fight was one of the easiest to predict. I think most boxing analysts predicted this fight correctly. The only point of disagreement was whether it would be a UD or a KO. Most went for the UD while few went for KO. I myself predicted Ricky would be very 'hittable' but didn't make any prediction on whether it'll be a UD or a KO, but personally favored a UD by 60-40 or maybe 70-30 margin. I think lot of us underestimated the 'natural weight' factor - Hatton was just too small for Floyd. When Floyd landed bit shots on Oscar, he just flinched a bit and just continued fighting, but when Floyd got Ricky with it, he sent him flying to the corner post.