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When are boxers tested for steroid and other drug use? After or before their fight? And since boxing is international sport how do boxing commissions (WBO WBC IBF etc) regulate this problem around the globe?
Here in California we've heard of Vargas testing positive after the DLH fight, Mosley's name has been out there in reports. With the baseball report out today it makes us boxing question steroid use in boxing. Is it a hush hush issue??
Well it all depends on the comissions but that I know of boxers are to submit (2) urine samples pre & post fight.
*See Alexis vs. Pryor for how well this is handled.
Jus let everyone take whatever the hell they want and that way nobody can cheat any more.
Problem sorted.
Steroids in boxing is not rampid,,Of all sports boxing probably has the least amount of guys on anibolic steroids.....With that being said it does not mean there are not cases of it but less then more I should say....
I see steriods as fairly pointless in boxing.
For sure they can help you go up in weight. As an example "Who ate all the pies" James Toony did.
No point really. Everyone weighs in at the limit what's the point in taking steriods.
Things like blood transfusions. to increase the number of reb blood sells is useful for stamina. But pointless for a 12 round fight i would of guessed.
Problem is the damage it does to the reproduction system and organs that cleanse the blood and the disasters it can create.
American Jesse Burendee or something deid this year 27 or something from taking to many steriods.
I don't think normal athletes ever come close to that kind of consumption. So i doubt any serious health risks would arise.
When Bruising occurs its primarely down to the Liver and Kidneys to replenish the injury. Overworked organs wont do the job reqiured thats where the problems occur around the thing that gets hit a lot the Head
the weight issue then is a factor, certainly it would bring little or no advantage if the opponent weighs the same.
I wouldn't be so sure man..the problem with tests is that for them to be accurate they would need to be done on an almost weekly maybe even every other day basis. If a boxer is smart or has somebody smart in their camp they will have the knowledge that not every steroid stays in your system for a long time. For example James Toney was caught with Nandrolone..this tells me he or whoever gave it to him isn't very clever because Nandrolone shows up in tests 18 months after it's taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
There are certain steroids that are in and out of your system in a week, some even days and these are the ones the smart boxers with any knowledge of steroids will be taking. You can run them all the way up until your last week of training camp and you won't show positive come fight night because it's out of your system.
Also for the member that said steroids aren't useful in boxing except to move up in weight..thats a very broad statement indeed. Steroids aren't always used for gaining weight. They help with your recovery (very important when you're going through a gruelling training camp), help with your agression, help with your power, help with your strength, help with your endurance, help with fitness and not to mention fat loss! It just really depends what you take..without getting too scientific there are a multitude of steroids out there that are excellent for the boxer and some that are not. Nandrolone being one of them..that usually causes some water retention which is probably why Toney looks like a big fat bloated mess at heavyweight.
Just think though..As a world class boxer there is always somebody hot on your heels ready to take those big paydays and big matchups from you if you falter..How important would it be for you to stay at that elite level of competition and keep making your big money? You'd need to be the best you can be. I think steroids are more prevailant than we think (and if used correctlt, they're not necessarily the devils work like the US government would have you think).
Honestly I really can't see the problem in using them. Who decides what drugs and supplements are legal and which arn't, and what are their decisions based on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
I won't pretend like I know anything about the subject but why is it ok for example to take creatine but not steroids? Why is it ok to intranvenously rehydrate after a weigh in allowing fighters clearly too big for a division to dry up and then rehydrate artificially with little side effects?
If anything seems unfair to me it's the reyhdration process as that allows fighters who really shouldn't be fighting in a division to fight there against much smaller men.
Guys who want to bulk up to fight bigger men are the braver in my opinion so why penalise them?
As I say I really don't know much about this so not claiming my opinion is right, just wandering what the more knowledgeble think about it?
You people who think steroids aren't in boxing like other sports, or that steroids have no use to a boxer, are all ignorant.
You have a preconcieved notion that when you think of steroid use, you think of GIGANTIC pro wrestlers and body builders. Steroids aren't just for guys who want to be 300lbs of muscle. They can make you physically stronger, faster, give your muscles more endurance. You think those qualities would go astray in boxing?
And of course, steroids can be used to help recovery time and faster recooperation of injuries and wear and tear. Boxing requires some of the hardest, high impact training out of any sport. Guys get sore, banged up, and injured in training all the time. Why wouldn't guys want to be taking stuff that will help them train harder and longer?
Wow, I feel ignorant, I had no idea that was how the rehydration process went! I've learnt lots today..I have a headache now haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm not sure which part of the government decides wether they are legal or not..but Steroids here are legal for personal use where as in the US I think you can be thrown in for a number of years if you're caught. Then on the other end of the spectrum you have most eastern european countries where you can buy over the counter like sweeties. I can understand to an extent why they are illegal because it would be irresponsible to let kids get a hold of them as a legal supplement. If used incorrectly thats when the side effects can occur. However, I think everywhere should have a law like the U.K's. They are difficult to obtain, so if you manage to find a source for them then you are probably well clued up anyway so the government won't penalise you for personal use. A Jail sentence for the use of steroids is quite harsh.
I've always thought that people who go up in weight do it because they are no longer being challenged in their own division or for the money or in some rare cases because the competition is actually not as tough because there are fewer and less experienced opponents in the next division up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
In most divisions I'd say it'd be a fairly rare fighter who will sit within the weight class they compete in. At a tournament I went to recently only one guy out of a team of 24 of us sat comfortably within his weight class. The rest of us were double checking our weight every night and every morning and would definitely be a little over by fight night. I've seen comps where the weigh in is right before to make sure everyone fights at their weight (or really because they couldn't be bothered having a separate weigh in) but it just means people compete dehydrated which I think is a little dangerous.
If your natural weigh has you sitting near the bottom or within range of the next weight class down most people will opt to go down to avoid being bashed by someone stronger.
One excuse to weigh in heavy in women's boxing which POs me is the "I've got my period' excuse - which should only account for one kg, once a month, at a more or less predictable time - strangely though it usually ends up being more than a kg, every time you see them and you'll get no forewarning of it so they have a weight advantage right there.
I don't know anyone on steroids although they probably wouldn't be telling the world about it so who knows! I knew some people who used to compete in the kickboxing scene who allegedly took them but it seems to have been a self destructive thing for them because their increased aggression levels ruined a lot of other things in their lives - their relationships, business, got them arrested. Not worth it if this is the typical effect in my opinion.
I don't know anyone in the amateur game who will intravenously rehydrate - can gain a kg or more just by drinking and loose it again before weighing in the next morning so to need to go to the extremes of intravenously rehydrating you're talking a lot of weight!
They can have harmful side effects. Whether the effects are negligable or solely the result of abuse (Which I don't believe) is irrelevant. An athlete shouldn't be forced to put himself in danger of these effects to compete with other athletes who are on these drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
But the fact is athletes are on these drugs..and smart athletes will continue to be. Boxing isn't a team game..You are the only one responsible for your performance. Which is why you MUST be at the top of your game every single fight, especially if you're an elite world class boxer or you can wave bye bye to those pay days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
As for side effects, they're different for different people but can be avoided/reversed by the knowledgable. Abuse IS usually when the side effects occur. Used responsibly steroids are actually beneficial to ones life..especially the older you get.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. Yes, athletes have to be in the best possible condition which is exactly why the bar shouldn't be raised artificially. If you think there are no negative side effects to these magic potions, good for you. I don't believe it and neither does any credible medical expert, including the FDA. There's definitely a risk of side effects and there's no justification to basically force athletes to risk their health if they want to compete at the top levels.
You talk about abuse. What's to stop an athlete from abusing these drugs and gaining a huge advantage over his competitors? Is it a consolation to his peers who were robbed of the accomplishments and status they were looking to achieve fairly and legally when the abuser dies of a heart attack at 42?
Mosely has only come up,to my knowledge,in HGH,and that could be a total BS rumourQuote:
Originally Posted by Chicali
No offence but i think your being ignornat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Taking steriods won't make you faster. That's down to your shape and your training.
Yes they can make you stronger. But if your already solid at a weight then theres no need, you will already be as strong as you can possibly be.
Yes some steriods probably can give you better endurance. But you will have to train as well.
You can take as many steriods as you like. But if you don't run you won't be on the same level.
They wouldn't want to take them because the longer and harder you trian you are likleyto build muscle and be unable to make the weight.
You can do things to reduce the risk of the side effects, infertility etc, but you can't guarantee it , as someone said before, a fighter shouldn't have to risk these things to stay with the competitionQuote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
Of course they 'shouldn't' have to! I totally agree but the fact is this stuff is out there and like to admit it or not it does get used. So athletes who want to keep having those big paydays and stay at the top of their game will take it. I just hate how much shit athletes get for getting caught. I guess at the end of the day its their own fault for getting caught but it makes people think he's the only athlete that is doing it. It gives them a bad rep and that is totally unfair in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poom
So you're basically repeating what I have said in previous posts? Did I say there were no side effects? No, I said they can be reduced and minimized with the correct knowledge and application. I also said that they affect people in different ways. You'd be stupid to believe there is no risk of side effects. How much research have you done on this topic? I've done about 3 years worth. Here's the deal, you give me one side effect of steroids and I will give you one way you can prevent, minimize or reverse it. Any side effect you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Also to answer your 2nd question, abuse doesn't tend to give you any extra performance boost as much as it does increase the risk of side effects. Also if you're genetically prone to heart problems, nothing can change that. You may be at more risk from taking the steroids (even then that risk can be limited) but if you're gonna die of a heart attack at age 40 then you're pretty much fucked anyway. My mums best friends brother died of a heart attack aged 36. Skinny as anything and lead a very active, healthy lifestyle. Never took steroids. Go figure.
Every drug has side effects..any medication the doctor gives you carries the risk of sides! Steroids are no different.
You're stating the obvious here, nobody said steroids were a magic pill where you could sit on your arse and just get in fight shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp
Also wrong of you to assume the longer and harder you train, the more likely you are to build muscle. Have you ever trained for hypertrophy? (building muscle) You can't train every single day and for long periods of time..this won't cause your muscles to grow, this will cause you to LOSE muscle if anything! Ever heard of over training? The intensity a boxer trains is very close to overtraining, pushing your body to the limit. Steroids will make a massive difference to your recovery which is probably the most important thing to a boxer.
Believe me this is a very deep subject and you havn't come close to even skimming the tip of the iceberg.
I hope nobody thinks i'm advocating the use of them here but i just hate misinformation due to media hype.
Basically i would say you're wrong. It depends how much you eat.
If you train all day everyday and more calories than you're burning you will gain muscle and size.
Just like the strong men.
Obviously you have to eat a lot. Gallons of milk, kg's of chicked kg's of beef. etc..
So you say they help in recovery. Why bother. A boxer will get 6 months between fights plenty of time to recover.
I have no problems with peple in sport taking drugs. But it has to be one way or the other.
Either they totally legalise the drugs or they give life time bans to those who fail the tests.
No offence bro but I can tell you know diddly squat on this topic..Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp
Yeah and what boxers do you know that each that much?? If anything i'd say a boxers diet is more carb heavy than protein to keep up energy levels. Plus the smart ones will know which ones to take to minimise muscle gain and maybe maintain and increase power. Its not easy to put on muscle..you aren't gonna put on muscle by boxing unless you have freaky genetics. Its mainly a cardio sport..you will get ripped and burn fat but you won't put much on in the way of muscle. You need to hit the weights in general to put on size...and usually follow a certain protocol that will build muscles. Boxers don't usually train this way if they do weights. They would normally circuit or focus on specific power exercises.
I'm not talking about recovery between fights..I'm talking about your recovery WHILE you're training for a fight. Most fighters train daily and this is hard for the body to take, it can easily lead to over training. So believe me the most beneficial side of steroid use for a boxer would be the recovery aspect. The fact that you can go balls to the wall every time and not experience much loss in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp
That would be fair but you're missing my point! The smart boxers will take the steroids that don't stay in the body for long enough to be detected!! Some steroids waste metabolites are out of your body within a week where as others like Deca (nandrolone) will hang around for 18 months..hence why moron James Toney got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp
My point is the smart boxers will never get caught even if a lifetime ban is threatened!!
I think pro boxers already put there long term heath in danger by the very nature of the sport so by everybody taking steroids boxers would be damaging there body even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo