We all saw the Mayweather/HAtton fight 8)
So if you were in Ricky HAttons corner in about round five what would you have told him?
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We all saw the Mayweather/HAtton fight 8)
So if you were in Ricky HAttons corner in about round five what would you have told him?
Leaning on him isnt working,and tighten your hands becuase he's freaking murdering you with those elbows and uppercuts.
Try going away a little,and for the love of god,if your going to go behind his head stop doing it to Cortez's side,because he's seen every single one of those,but he isnt seeing Floyds elbows,because of those shots you keep throwing in his line of sight.
Every time you try to go behind the ear,Floyd counters with an elbow,so all Cortez is seeing is your shot behind the ear.
Not a lot Ricky was doing what Ricky has always done, with success. He hadnt the ability to change to plan B because there wasnt one and He didnt have the ability for change, sad but true Floyd had the better script Ricky couldnt get passed the book cover.
Keep your hands up when you go in and move your god damm head. Alos start working that body down like you said you would.
Hit him on the arms and shoulders, use head movement, go to the body more, use angles on the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Ricky is very lucky that the "fair but firm" Joe Cortez broke them up so often on the inside because Floyd would have chopped him up bad. Trying to bull him on the inside would have gotten Hatton killed. Floyd covers his entire body with his left arm and puts his left shoulder on your chest, unless, he has his elbow to your neck; either way you are not landing that right hand and that elbow on your neck is preventing your body from being able turn and find leverage. Your left hook is landing on glove and arm. There's nothing to hit over there. In between these punches youre missing all over the place you're being countered with a right uppercut to your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
With a fighter like Floyd who is so tight defensively just trying to bang on him will not work. How could something like that work against something that is so based on exploiting that very thing? Floyd wants you to do that.
Fighters with tight defense hate one thing. Thats being forced open. And the act of punching leaves you open. Traditionally the goal of the swarmer has always been to bring the fight to their opponents forcing them to punch, and therefore, making them open as they are in the act of punching. The swarmer is giving you many punches to counter but the twist is try and counter and you might get hit. An interesting dilemma in boxing that many don't give enough thought to.
I think Floyd must understand this on some level as he very rarely will counterpunch. His style is centered around rendering his opponent's assault useless and hitting them with leads that are very hard to counter as he barely commits to them (his lead left hook and lead right hand). "Potshotting" the Mayweathers like to call it.Thats an extremely hard fighter to fight. When you lead you miss and he won't counter your punches meaning you can't punch him then either. So many opponents are forced into doing just what you outlined. That is, trying to just get inside and bull him. And thats when they get cut up and busted down.
The one counter that floyd does throw on the inside with some regularity - the counter right uppercut after he rolls your right hand off of his shoulder; a roll counter - leaves him exposed to a left hook though. Notice how his head is completely open and exposed during the window which he throws it. He was looking for the left hook in response to Hatton's lead left hook also. Something he had obviously been working on in training for him. The "check hook" like Steward says. Its funny cause I could have sworn the check hook only applied to right hands or at least thats always been my thinking. I call that counter left hook in response to a left hook something else.
Well anyway, Its something Floyd was trying to establish all through this fight. Something which Hatton could've have exploited but didn't. Trigger his counter "check hook" with your left hook and as he opens to throw his left hook in response to you hit him with a right hand. He circles away to his left as he throws his punch which is common to the check hook so its unlikely the right hand could reach his head. I would try to get his kidney underneath the arm. He would stop trying that counter on me after a few of those.
Thats because Hattons head was too far tucked,and he was just throwing big hooks to the back of Floyds head,and throwing them blind because he was trying way too hard to lean on Floyd hoping to tire him out
Now while not exactly legal,it isnt a bad game plan,per se
Per se
But his corner should have seen by no later then the 3rd round that Ricky was getting eaten up by those uppercuts,and elbows nicely disguised as inside hooks,and adjusted accordingly,they just kept running him out there round after round,to do exactly the same thing,and get exactly the same results
Hatton wasn't going to be landing any left hook on Floyd on the inside. He is sideways to you on the inside and this means that he is presenting two sides to you. one side is his front and the other is his back - literally his back. The back is illegal to punch so already he cuts half of your offense in half through this. An interesting loop hole the clever ones in boxing have come to exploit. His other side is the one with all of his vitals on it. The only problem is this side is completely being covered with both of his arms. The body is inaccessible and so is the head. So long as he is covering himself in such a manner nothing is going to land. You must first find a way to get him out of this defense if you're goal is to land a punch.
And Hatton surely never did and this ultimately did nothing but tire him as he repeated the same ineffective and frustrated attempts to land punches without first establishing a way to open floyd's defense. I give him at least some credit for being able to answer every bell in light of such demoralizing attempts.
I agree to an extent
But theres an if,and its a big one
If those hooks looked like they were doing anything,Id have kept up,they werent legal,and they were blatant,so the judges were giving him no credit for them
But they werent even making Floyd blink
So Ricky HAD to go somewhere else to do his damage
He never did for the entire fight,Manfreddy was even able to make Floyd back off a bit with either a well timed jab or a big cross,he didnt have the reach to keep him off understood,but he could back him off. Hatton had one gear the entire fight.Come in and throw looping hooks that werent landing legally
I like Ricky he's a gutsy guy,and from what I gather a pretty decent one,I hope one of the things he learns from this,is that timing a guy out on occaision,and having a plan B will save your you know what out there.
Even the knockdown in to the post is a head first,head down charge that Floyd times out,by that late in the fight youd have thought someone would have noticed that stuff wasnt working
They obviously never trained for anything other than the way they thought the fight would go (their own way)!
What a blue to make ;over estimate your own fighter to the degree that you then underestimate the best there is in regards to how he will deal with your fighters one and only approach.
In hindsight I would have liked them to have Ricky breaking down distances with sparring partners.
Shifting back slightly so he could deal with Floyds arms at the range of arms only and then moving in on the reactions that occur at that distance first.
That would at least break it into segments so he may of been able to open up with some of the shorter punches as he finally moved in.
Instead they just expected to be let through that gap with no jab by a precision timer.
With what they had on the line in this massive fight I would have expected them to have had more boxes ticked than they did.
It reminded me of the way I felt when Barrera took Hamed apart that time and they just kept trying a single minded approach while getting fully schooled.
I think they over bet on Ricky's power taking it,but at some point in the fight you have to tell your fighter to change gearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I think Barrera is a tape hound like me,and I suspect what Mayweathers becoming,I think he found a way to exploit Hameds jab,which frankly allways was an achilles heel for him,nobody was fast enough to exploit it before
And again,just like with Hatton,once that fell down,there wasnt a plan B
One of the things I like about Hopkins,is theres a plan C,D,E,and F,I think its Ali syndrome, where its just worked so well for so long,you get lost if it isnt.
It never really happened to Ali except for the last two fights, but fighters have to remember, you arent Ali
Another example is Tyson,he could he either blow your doors down,or close the gap fast enough,and keep his head on yours,and feel what you where doing,but when he couldnt close the gap fast enough anymore,there was nothing else to fall back on,and nobody there anymore who he trusted enough to give him something else to use.
Whats a tape hound?
You sit down and watch every ounce of tape you can get your hands onQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
You rely on your trainer to give you the skills,but you watch the guy religously to figure out what plan B might be
Oh I 'm one too then, just didnt know the term tape hound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Reminds me, I must worm these dogs.
There is no *one way* of beating Mayweather.
I would have said to use the jab on the way in. He had success in 1 and 2 with the 1,2.
I would then tell him to faint it occasionally and wait for Floyd to anticiparte him coming in and react. Then launch an assault.
I would have asked him to circle to the left and hook as Floyd leans to the right and causes a tangle if he stays in the middle or right.
Thats a really good analysis Donny. The best one I've heard someone bring up yet I think. Hatton would have done much better jabbing his way in. It would have forced Mayweather to react to it and like you say create more opportunities for Hatton. Hatton used no jab to get inside and seemed to either be waiting for Floyd to throw a punch so that he could counter it or just rushing in to throw something (anything) whether or not it would land.
So in essence his strategy was centered around only two main things: trying to counter Mayweather's leads or rushing in with his own lead punches. It's not so surprising that this failed because Floyd proved to be impossible to counter with the kinds of punches he threw. As a result we saw Hatton's attempts at counter punching fail. With this unavailable for Hatton he was left with his only other real option - to bore in and try to just hit him with his own leads. Mayweather blocked and slipped everything. His attempt to lead also proved to be a failure.
I don't quite follow what you mean to say here though
What do you mean by as floyd leans to the right? Do you mean as he is covering up his body and getting behind his shoulder? Please explain with a little more.Quote:
I would have asked him to circle to the left and hook as Floyd leans to the right and causes a tangle if he stays in the middle or right.
I dont know if just a jab comming in would work against Floyds added reach and added speed I think he would have still got clocked continualy after Floyd sees something once his reactions are ready next time.
But the feint is a working start may have the same effect as distancing himself at the jabs end and waiting for a reaction then going in.
CC Thomas, your praise is a high compliment!
What i meant there is the "Maywether shell" concentrates on Floyd moving to his right.
If he sees a jab coming he gets the left up and turns from the hips to the right.
When he see's a right, hook or uppercut he continues this motion and leans low to the right. (Remember how he got caught in the ropes.) He often ends up leaning 90 degrees.
When he leaned like this I would ask hatton to step to his right so he would be at the outside of Mayweathers hip and lead foot. I think he could throw and land to the body from there but he'd have to be very quick to get set and throw.
Well it's only a theory...Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I think if he showed it Mayweather would immediately counter and while Mayweathers arms were extending/extended I would then throw
I was thinking he might have better working doubling his jab going away,look at the knockdown,he lunges with the jab to get in,only one jab,Floyd rolls it and puts Hattons momentum against himQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Yeah Floyd timed his overcommitment to a tee eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Going backwards wasnt even in their itinerary ,but like you say; do it with a double up then go forwards on the reaction so your covered during your move.
Like someone said back there too "your not going to beat Floyd with any one thing."
Thats so true thats why I think to do something like that creates a different thought pattern in Floyd,maybe just a reaction at first and the question after,but a moment for you to move in on so you can then do what you do best.
Either Ricky's people never gave him a plan B,in which case shame on them.Or Ricky refused to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Because even after taking the unneeded to punishment to get in and hang on Floyd,he couldnt get his uppercut off,so he went for those big ol dirty hooks to the back of Floyds head.Every time he did it to Cortez's side,Floyd would drop an elbow on him for his troubles
I really think they overestimated Ricky's power inside,and underestimated Floyds,but still at some point you have to understand that something isnt working,and have something else to try.
Part of the dance of death on the inside is having the strength and guile to take position to get your punches off,Ricky just got out thought there,and out muscled.By the third all he was doing was hanging on,and praying hed tire Floyd's legs out by making him carry him.
Tyson,for all his flaws,was a master inside when he was younger,he'd just put his head on yours,and be able to feel what you were trying to do,and make you pay every time you tried to do it.This fight worked almost opposite,Floyd was confident enough in his defense,he let Ricky put his head on his shoulder and just countered him.
there was nothing Ricky could have to make any difference... not during the fight, not before the fight, not 5 years ago, not 10 years ago. Nothing EVER could have changed the outcome. He may have gone the distance had he covered up for that one shot, but he would have lost the decision.
Ricky's a great fighter and I like him, but floyd is just...well...."gifted." There's no explaining it other than he's a lucky bastard that got outstanding genetics to be that fast and talented.
The one big problem was he never had a plan B and when plan A did'nt work he was fucked.
Ricky's my favourite fighter so it pains me to inform you guys that Ricky didn't even use plan A :(
Move Your Head
DISCPLINE, watch the blows behind the head
Make Floyd work more, make him open up
Hooks to the chest, floyds style of blocking allows that
against floyd, everything is far easier said than done, especially considering his speed.
I never seen so much referee interference. Ricky is an inside fighter, he jockeys for position then he either pivots right or left and fires his shots.. Cortez constantly interfered right Ricky’s pivot points on the inside. Hatton had no chance to win with this referee , trust me. Cortez penalized one man and then turn a blind eye to the other. Hattons early momentum was completely disrupted. Ricky simply lost his head , I caught a rebroadcast of the match, and it just confirmed my appraisal .
I thought Ricky was doing a pretty fine job for man fighting 2 fellows at the same time .
As a Hatton fan I was chastised for a similar claim the morning after the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
I agree completely Lords and I feel that Cortez must have taken issue with Hatton prior to the fight.
At first I questioned my own logic and wondered "how had he gotten on so well in the Castillo fight had that been the case?"
However, upon watching the Cstillo fight again, I realised that Cortez was equally harsh upon that occasion also. The difference was that a lot of the clinches were initiated by Castillo so they were allowed.
By no means do I feel Cortez infleunced the outcome, my man was outclassed. But he did spoil the fight as a spectacle as I felt he was extremely unfair from round 1.
Hatton would have had increcible trouble if Cortez had allowed them to fight inside more. Hatton cannot grapple Floyd as he stands sideways to you and puts his shoulder to your chest. He will also put his elbow in your neck, block everything you throw and cut you badly with right uppercuts.
Cortez came in right at Ricky's pivot points, never allowing Hatton to get off. Hatton was popping Floyd pretty good in the match regardless. I believe Hatton would've had a good chance to win if given the proper time on the inside in the early rounds. .. the quick break and push back crap is for the birds ! Ricky earned his distance and was not allowed to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasTabin
I been in several matches like this, where you can't use the distance you earned due to ref interference . what you have to do is relax , ride the wave so to speak , be patient . its unfortunate but sometimes especially as a short fighter you can feel as though your doomed simply because of the officiating . Unfortunate for Ricky he is not a one punch KO bloke. He needs to accumulate his shots to have the desired effect, as opposed to carrying that one punch power which comes in rather handy in these type situations .
all that being said . Floyd took full advantage of the opportunities that were available , he made it work to his benefit .. that’s what a well rounded champion supposed to do . so props to him .
One thing that did surprise me on the night was the strength of Mayweather. Hatton got a low point, at Mayweathers Chest and dug in his shoulders and attempted to push Floyd back.
I was very surprised to see Mayweather then push Haton back, he was incredibly strong on the night.
Ricky son your lossing this now go out there with more laterial movment start making the angles for the rib shots & move your feeking head
Tell boy did you get that yet....If you didn't get it I'm going to send it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by telboy66