-
60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
I think a Lewis or Kiltshko could give a 60s Ali problems because of their massive size advantage, and Lewis in particular had great skills and power. It is silly to compare fighters from 40 years ago to more recent fighters because the conditions are so different. Hw's are bigger now and prbably have access to better training, diet etc.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Because Holmes carried Ali i thought you already knew this ?? Holmes could of stopped Ali at anytime.
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
I wasn't even going to say that .........
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
Please explain to me how Lewis was overrated?
He fought and beat
Tyson
Holyfield
Klitschko
Mcall
Mercer
Bruno
Botha
Rahman
Ruddock
Mason
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Grant
Tua.
Most of those were via KO, and he avenged his only two losses bith by 5th round KO.
Unified the HW division.
Was world champ for the best part of 10 years.
If he is overrated then name me someone who isnt!
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
Lennox Lewis over rated???? I don't know how you could actually say that and mean it....Lennox was one of the most dominate champions not only in the HW division but to ever grace the sport.....
Lennox had 2 losses....One to McCall where he was a bit full of himself and got caught...Lewis was still a work in progress at the time...
His loss to Rahman was because Lennox was out of shape and had been hanging out in Hollywood filming for 3 weeks before the fight and then flew to South Africa with out even allowing himself enough time to adjust to the time difference.....In the rematch he did not just beat Rahman he made an example of him.....
By time 2002 rolled along Lennox was a complete fighter who pretty much dominated the ring, His opponents and OWNED the HW division...when Lennox was fighting there was no question who the champion was....Not to mention he has one of the best resumes in the history of HW boxing....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Please explain to me how Lewis was overrated?
He fought and beat
Tyson
Holyfield
Klitschko
Mcall
Mercer
Bruno
Botha
Rahman
Ruddock
Mason
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Grant
Tua.
Most of those were via KO, and he avenged his only two losses bith by 5th round KO.
Unified the HW division.
Was world champ for the best part of 10 years.
If he is overrated then name me someone who isnt!
[/quote]
I think this speaks for itself as Eagle said....
I would CC you mate but just got you in another thread
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
Definatley Ali in prime when He fought Big Cat Williams.That was beautiful,He was entering and/or at PEAK no doubt.Uncle sam came along and gave him an Impossed Vacation.Made an example outta him......Fools!!
I think He Beats MArciano/Louis/Dempsey/Tyson/Holmes/Foreman/& Holyfield (sorry holy). Peak Vs.Peak
Imo Size Is OVERRATED alot of times.But I do think Lewis would give him Rough time.
The closest Bowe comes to him was that corny rehashed Impersonation he was always doing.Just my opinion.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
Lennox Lewis over rated???? I don't know how you could actually say that and mean it....Lennox was one of the most dominate champions not only in the HW division but to ever grace the sport.....
Lennox had 2 losses....One to McCall where he was a bit full of himself and got caught...Lewis was still a work in progress at the time...
His loss to Rahman was because Lennox was out of shape and had been hanging out in Hollywood filming for 3 weeks before the fight and then flew to South Africa with out even allowing himself enough time to adjust to the time difference.....In the rematch he did not just beat Rahman he made an example of him.....
By time 2002 rolled along Lennox was a complete fighter who pretty much dominated the ring, His opponents and OWNED the HW division...when Lennox was fighting there was no question who the champion was....Not to mention he has one of the best resumes in the history of HW boxing....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Please explain to me how Lewis was overrated?
He fought and beat
Tyson
HolyfieldKlitschko
Mcall
Mercer
Bruno
Botha
Rahman
Ruddock
Mason
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Grant
Tua.
Most of those were via KO, and he avenged his only two losses bith by 5th round KO.
Unified the HW division.
Was world champ for the best part of 10 years.
If he is overrated then name me someone who isnt!
I think this speaks for itself as Eagle said....
I would CC you mate but just got you in another thread
[/quote]
overrated mayb wrong choice of words--but his best opposition was well past their primes.but he beat a shell of a tyson and a past his prime holyfield. he was good but boring. i just think a prime tyson woulda ko him and prime holyfield would win by ud. so i think ali would make lewis look amateur and win by a ud. compared to other greats i think
holmes would beat him
foreman
frazier
shavers
norton
lewis is lucky he never had 2 fight ali, but so are, louis ,marciano, dempsey,tyson
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
Lennox Lewis over rated???? I don't know how you could actually say that and mean it....Lennox was one of the most dominate champions not only in the HW division but to ever grace the sport.....
Lennox had 2 losses....One to McCall where he was a bit full of himself and got caught...Lewis was still a work in progress at the time...
His loss to Rahman was because Lennox was out of shape and had been hanging out in Hollywood filming for 3 weeks before the fight and then flew to South Africa with out even allowing himself enough time to adjust to the time difference.....In the rematch he did not just beat Rahman he made an example of him.....
By time 2002 rolled along Lennox was a complete fighter who pretty much dominated the ring, His opponents and OWNED the HW division...when Lennox was fighting there was no question who the champion was....Not to mention he has one of the best resumes in the history of HW boxing....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Please explain to me how Lewis was overrated?
He fought and beat
Tyson
HolyfieldKlitschko
Mcall
Mercer
Bruno
Botha
Rahman
Ruddock
Mason
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Grant
Tua.
Most of those were via KO, and he avenged his only two losses bith by 5th round KO.
Unified the HW division.
Was world champ for the best part of 10 years.
If he is overrated then name me someone who isnt!
I think this speaks for itself as Eagle said....
I would CC you mate but just got you in another thread
overrated mayb wrong choice of words--but his best opposition was well past their primes.but he beat a shell of a tyson and a past his prime holyfield. he was good but boring. i just think a prime tyson woulda ko him and prime holyfield would win by ud. so i think ali would make lewis look amateur and win by a ud. compared to other greats i think
holmes would beat him
foreman
frazier
shavers
norton
lewis is lucky he never had 2 fight ali, but so are, louis ,marciano, dempsey,tyson
[/quote]
Ok Ali was great, maybe the GREATEST, but to say a monster of a man with great skills and power like Lewis wouldnt have a chance of beating him is just wrong. When Lewis was at full fitness he was arguably the best allround Heavy who ever lived. He had one punch KO power, a stiff jabe, huge reach, good speed and good skills.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I've had stick nuff times for this but i stick to it i really really really think a Prime Tyson would give ANY heavyweight (including Ali) from any era alot of trouble. Thing with people like Marciano aswell was that he would catch Ali sooner or later im sure and he did half pack a punch even though i know he was MUCH smaller and would more then likely be clearly outboxed to a one sided UD but you never know. As has been said its very tricky to compare the fighters frm different eras becuase of size differneces, modern fitness technologys that some fighters get the benifit of and of course diet etc.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Look Ali has the best resume of any heavyweight but he could be beat i would give Holmes and Lennox a good chance at beating him. People tend to put him in a states of a god but he was beatable during the 60's he best wins were Liston who was 35 most likly older some say he was 38 he has not birth date on the book i have on him and he was falling fast with his lifestyle. Do not get me wrong Ali was great but no god and could of gotten beat and trainer Monkey have you even seen the Holmes vs Ali Holmes did not even want to hit him anymore silly to bring up the round it ended.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Because Holmes carried Ali i thought you already knew this ?? Holmes could of stopped Ali at anytime.
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
I wasn't even going to say that .........
I thought you knew this,for the last 3 rounds Holmes desperatly wanted Alit to either go down,or the ref to stop it
I thought you knew Ali gave Holmes a shiner when Holmes was Ali's sparring partner,thats why an Ali who was allready twiching from Parkinson was arrogant enough to come out of retirement.
He figured if the guy he taught everything he knew,who he could beat at will was heavyweight champ,well maybe one more time
Of course Holmes didnt want to hit Ali anymore,there is no Holmes without Ali
And we arent talking about the twitching from Parkinsons fat Ali are we?
We're talking Ali at the height of his game,he'd have annihilated Holmes,hell the 70's version did it at least once a week at sparring
What on earth do you think that Ali would have done?
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
When he was sparing he was still just learning and he did not have a huge amatuer career. Holmes would give any version of Ali troble his Jab being a major factor because it would make Ali have a hard time using his major weapon the jab. Not saying who win but i just saying Holmes in prime had a good chance at beating a prime Ali to think other wise is silly. Lennox he had all the tools to beat Ali if he was train and motivated Lennox could have one of the best chances at beating Ali with a good reach advantage and knock out power he would be a nightmare for Ali and any other heavyweight.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
The Ali of 1966/7 was close but not yet in his prime, had he not have been stopped from fighting i think he would have been at his peak by mid 1968 and nobody would have beaten him at this time.
The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would not have lost to anyone IMO.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Tell that to George Foreman,and Frank Bruno for that matter
Valuev would be unstoppable by your theory,tell that to teeny small Mr Chagaev
Nuff said indeed
If all it took was being 6'5",Id currently be using my PPV money to polish my belts
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
Totaly agree.CC
Some of the better skilled boxers in history might have given him a fe problems but would not have beaten him.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
You have already made your mind up and you think Ali is unbeatable no matter what anyone says so its pointless debating.
Saying Holmes is poor mans version of Ali is disrespectful and rude, Holmes used to beat up on your hero in sparring remember Rumble In The Jungle ??
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Yes I feel the best Ali we saw was the best Heavy ever...
And although I never met him, I met Ali's Doc (Pacheco) and he said Ali was 6'3'' not 6'2''.
Ive already gone througfh the size differential in several threads but in brief summation:
The primary contingent of 1970's heavyweights were over 6'2'' with the average being 6'3''. There werre some exceptional variations in the form of Frazier and Liston but most were big guys. Weight was pretty comparable too, so the "huge" advantages in modern boxing are nowhere near as huge as they were over 20's 30's 40's 50's and other heavies.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Because Holmes carried Ali i thought you already knew this ?? Holmes could of stopped Ali at anytime.
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
I wasn't even going to say that .........
I thought you knew this,for the last 3 rounds Holmes desperatly wanted Alit to either go down,or the ref to stop it
I thought you knew Ali gave Holmes a shiner when Holmes was Ali's sparring partner,thats why an Ali who was allready twiching from Parkinson was arrogant enough to come out of retirement.
He figured if the guy he taught everything he knew,who he could beat at will was heavyweight champ,well maybe one more time
Of course Holmes didnt want to hit Ali anymore,there is no Holmes without Ali
And we arent talking about the twitching from Parkinsons fat Ali are we?
We're talking Ali at the height of his game,he'd have annihilated Holmes,hell the 70's version did it at least once a week at sparring
What on earth do you think that Ali would have done?
I thought you knew this,for the last 3 rounds Holmes desperatly wanted Alit to either go down,or the ref to stop it
Uhh Holmes was pulling his punches on Ali and was pleading with the ref to stop the fight Holmes could of ended it at anytime.
thought you knew Ali gave Holmes a shiner when Holmes was Ali's sparring partner,thats why an Ali who was allready twiching from Parkinson was arrogant enough to come out of retirement.
When Holmes was a mere novice and Ali was in his peak he gave Holmes a shiner, when Holmes grew as a fighter i think your find he used to get the better of Ali in sparring like when they sparred in Rumble In The Jungle.
He figured if the guy he taught everything he knew,who he could beat at will was heavyweight champ,well maybe one more time
Well he was wrong wasn't he ?? because Holmes matured as a fighter.
Of course Holmes didnt want to hit Ali anymore,there is no Holmes without Ali
Ridiculous statement and totally disrespectful, Holmes didn't want to hurt Ali because Ali and Holmes were friends.
We're talking Ali at the height of his game,he'd have annihilated Holmes,hell the 70's version did it at least once a week at sparring
What on earth do you think that Ali would have done?
Now your making up lies, he used to get the better of Holmes when Holmes was a mere novice actually. When Holmes grew as a fighter he got the better of Ali in sparring. But really and truthfully who cares about sparring ?? because if we are going by that logic then Greg Page would beat Mike Tyson because he floored him in sparring.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
Lennox Lewis over rated???? I don't know how you could actually say that and mean it....Lennox was one of the most dominate champions not only in the HW division but to ever grace the sport.....
Lennox had 2 losses....One to McCall where he was a bit full of himself and got caught...Lewis was still a work in progress at the time...
His loss to Rahman was because Lennox was out of shape and had been hanging out in Hollywood filming for 3 weeks before the fight and then flew to South Africa with out even allowing himself enough time to adjust to the time difference.....In the rematch he did not just beat Rahman he made an example of him.....
By time 2002 rolled along Lennox was a complete fighter who pretty much dominated the ring, His opponents and OWNED the HW division...when Lennox was fighting there was no question who the champion was....Not to mention he has one of the best resumes in the history of HW boxing....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Please explain to me how Lewis was overrated?
He fought and beat
Tyson
HolyfieldKlitschko
Mcall
Mercer
Bruno
Botha
Rahman
Ruddock
Mason
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Grant
Tua.
Most of those were via KO, and he avenged his only two losses bith by 5th round KO.
Unified the HW division.
Was world champ for the best part of 10 years.
If he is overrated then name me someone who isnt!
I think this speaks for itself as Eagle said....
I would CC you mate but just got you in another thread
overrated mayb wrong choice of words--but his best opposition was well past their primes.but he beat a shell of a tyson and a past his prime holyfield. he was good but boring. i just think a prime tyson woulda ko him and prime holyfield would win by ud. so i think ali would make lewis look amateur and win by a ud. compared to other greats i think
holmes would beat him
foreman
frazier
shavers
norton
lewis is lucky he never had 2 fight ali, but so are, louis ,marciano, dempsey,tyson
[/quote] Lewis would of killed Marciano and Dempsey give me a break, they were 180s pounds and Lewis was 240s you have to be joking ?? it would be Cruiserweight vs massive Heavyweight.
What about your hero Ali ?? he should have at least 9 losses on his record, he should of lost 2 out of 3 to Norton, he got out boxed by Young and got gift decision, he should of been DQ against Henry Cooper, and he should of lost to Shavers but yet again got a gift decision, some people think he should of lost to Doug Jones as well so actually you could make a case for 10 losses on Ali's record.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
no way --bowe was bigger --but ali was way 2 fast and would win by a ud.
Yea Ali would just win on speed ::**
Not to mention Bowe is bigger, is a better inside fighter than Ali, and is much harder puncher than Ali, plus Bowe has excellent stamina and granite chin, and has an excellent jab, but no your right Ali would win the fight just based on speed and Bowe would not give Ali any trouble at all.
holmes if anything is a poor mans ali--he's an ali wannab--holmes had a better jab--but ali was overall a better fighter and faster ali by ud or sd
I already said this earlier and it is disrespectful comment, considering Holmes made 20 title defense's and is considered one of the greatest Heavyweights of all time, Holmes had better jab, was the better technical boxer than Ali, and he could match Ali in most department's actually.
lewis=overrated. ali would run circles around him- win by ud
Another smart observation, Lewis overrated so Ali wins ::**
Lewis had longer reach plus he is taller, had more power, had the jab to trouble Ali, but no your right again Ali would make Lewis look like amateur even though Lewis has a lot of physical advantages.
louis -almost lost 2 conn--thers no way in hell he could beat ali. ali would cut louis into shreds--ud or tko
And Ali almost lost to Doug Jones so whats your point ??
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I think prime LIston gives him all sorts of problems.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think prime LIston gives him all sorts of problems.
Young Ali fought a damn good Liston and made him look slow, cumbersome and limited...
Had Liston fought a more mature Ali he would have been beaten worse
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think prime LIston gives him all sorts of problems.
Young Ali fought a damn good Liston and made him look slow, cumbersome and limited...
Had Liston fought a more mature Ali he would have been beaten worse
People forget Ali had a beautiful jab,he sniped it out there and made you pursue.And as you pursued hed drop bombs
No other heavyweight has ever moved so close to a welterweight,but had boom boom size and power like Ali did in his prime.Usually even a good and fast heavy weight plods a little bit.
Not Ali in his prime,he just wasnt there to hit.He had an instinctive knowledge of where he was in the ring at all times,an ability to be gone when you came.Heavyweights have a tendency to go low,or go real high. High is too high to catch him,low was to slow to catch him.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
CCool Click...In his day Ali was simply breath taking.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
CCool Click...In his day Ali was simply breath taking.
cc back Donny,he was just one of a kind. He could do what few other fighters will ever get away with,he could play with you.Just goof off,until he was done with you.Imagine it,a heavyweight title fight,where one of the combatants is just playing until he gets bored with you???And then,its your time to be on the canvas wondering how you got there.The look on his knockouts opponents faces can only be described as,"How did this happen,I thought I was hanging with him"
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
CCool Click...In his day Ali was simply breath taking.
cc back Donny,he was just one of a kind. He could do what few other fighters will ever get away with,he could play with you.Just goof off,until he was done with you.Imagine it,a heavyweight title fight,where one of the combatants is just playing until he gets bored with you???And then,its your time to be on the canvas wondering how you got there.The look on his knockouts opponents faces can only be described as,"How did this happen,I thought I was hanging with him"
Yeah the examples of that which most stick with me were Al "Blue" Lewis and as I've already mentione today the Bonavena fight.
Against Al Lewis, Ali wanted to impress, he let Lewis fight even with him and Lewis at his own game couldn't beat Ali. Ali stopped him late as I've said fighting Lewis' fight.
With Bonavena it seemed even. Then the corner mentioned to Ali that it may have been even on the cards. Bang, left hook and Ali became the only man to stop Oscar (Joe Frazier failed to stop him (twice) and foreman failed to stop him)
Ali had it All
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
CCool Click...In his day Ali was simply breath taking.
cc back Donny,he was just one of a kind. He could do what few other fighters will ever get away with,he could play with you.Just goof off,until he was done with you.Imagine it,a heavyweight title fight,where one of the combatants is just playing until he gets bored with you???And then,its your time to be on the canvas wondering how you got there.The look on his knockouts opponents faces can only be described as,"How did this happen,I thought I was hanging with him"
Yeah the examples of that which most stick with me were Al "Blue" Lewis and as I've already mentione today the Bonavena fight.
Against Al Lewis, Ali wanted to impress, he let Lewis fight even with him and Lewis at his own game couldn't beat Ali. Ali stopped him late as I've said fighting Lewis' fight.
With Bonavena it seemed even. Then the corner mentioned to Ali that it may have been even on the cards. Bang, left hook and Ali became the only man to stop Oscar (Joe Frazier failed to stop him (twice) and foreman failed to stop him)
Ali had it All
The two fights I use to contrast and compare
Patterson and Foley
Foley was a nice and respectful guy,so Ali let it go just long enough so it made good TV,and then he turned him off "click"
Patterson on the other hand thought he'd get in to Ali's head by constantly referring to Ali as Clay,now this is a multiple time Heavyweight Champion,Ali just tortures him out there,screaming at Patterson as he hit him "Whats my name?"
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson I have only watched the fight once and i will never watch it again. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone shut Ali's damn mouth.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone just Ali's damn mouth.
Patterson wasnt being a nice guy before the fight,in alot of ways he made Ali, the way he talked.He urinated all over Ali's religion every single chance he got.He taught Ali that all is fair to sell a fight.
30 years of emnity between Ali and Frazier probably wouldnt have happened if Floyd had been that much of a "nice guy"
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone just Ali's damn mouth.
Patterson wasnt being a nice guy before the fight,in alot of ways he made Ali, the way he talked.He urinated all over Ali's religion every single chance he got.He taught Ali that all is fair to sell a fight.
30 years of emnity between Ali and Frazier probably wouldnt have happened if Floyd had been that much of a "nice guy"
Sorry but i never liked Ali he was a racist, and not only because of that i just didn't like him from what i see, i enjoy some of his fights but i find most of them boring.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone just Ali's damn mouth.
Patterson wasnt being a nice guy before the fight,in alot of ways he made Ali, the way he talked.He urinated all over Ali's religion every single chance he got.He taught Ali that all is fair to sell a fight.
30 years of emnity between Ali and Frazier probably wouldnt have happened if Floyd had been that much of a "nice guy"
Sorry but i never liked Ali he was a racist, and not only because of that i just didn't like him from what i see, i enjoy some of his fights but i find most of them boring.
Your right they are boring,in hindsight,you know hes going to win almost allways
Ali was racist?
Yeah him with his white trainer and everything
Vietnam was racist,George Wallace sure as hell was,what happened to the AIM and Black Panther movemnet,oh my yes.Ali reacted to the reality of this country at the time.
Tell me,since he was such a racist,at a time when you could get arrested and disapeer for protesting your own racist treatment in America,did he ever say to Dundee,"I hate you, your white"?
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
There's only 1 fighter I can see as unbeatable and that is a motivated Lennox Lewis. He had everything: size, power, speed, combinations. He wouldn't have let Ali sucker him into punching himself out while Ali hung on the ropes; he would have just given him a 1-2 until Ali realized he was falling behind and Lennox wasn't going anywhere. Ali would have had to come out and box and that flash jab would have been good until Lennox caught him with his own. I hate to say it because I love Tyson, but prime for prime, Lewis wins. Mike had too many psychological issues to beat Lewis. He would have caved in the middle rounds once he realized Lennox wasn't about to be intimidated. That's why he just stood there like a zombie until Lennox put him down (although it took a lot of hard shots).
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
There's only 1 fighter I can see as unbeatable and that is a motivated Lennox Lewis. He had everything: size, power, speed, combinations. He wouldn't have let Ali sucker him into punching himself out while Ali hung on the ropes; he would have just given him a 1-2 until Ali realized he was falling behind and Lennox wasn't going anywhere. Ali would have had to come out and box and that flash jab would have been good until Lennox caught him with his own. I hate to say it because I love Tyson, but prime for prime, Lewis wins. Mike had too many psychological issues to beat Lewis. He would have caved in the middle rounds once he realized Lennox wasn't about to be intimidated. That's why he just stood there like a zombie until Lennox put him down (although it took a lot of hard shots).
Whilst I agree on the Tyson issue I've got to disagree about Ali-Lewis. I think Lewis is ATG material, but he's just behind Ali for me. Ali had too much flexability, too much speed and too many traps. Lewis would have been outpointed in a close competitive fight.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
No question Ali was faster. But Lewis was no slouch. If he could touch Ali with that 1-2 (he was one of the best at it at HW) Ali would be hurting. I think he would have put Ali on a speed cycle and he would have burned himself out by the late rounds trying to stay away from that long reach. In the late rounds he would have been the more tired of the two as his punches would have taken more out of him considering their frequency and Lennox would have come on and knocked him down 1-2 times. Ali was prone to a flash knock down and it would have been even moreso as he tired. Lewis by SD, I think.
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
No question Ali was faster. But Lewis was no slouch. If he could touch Ali with that 1-2 (he was one of the best at it at HW) Ali would be hurting. I think he would have put Ali on a speed cycle and he would have burned himself out by the late rounds trying to stay away from that long reach. In the late rounds he would have been the more tired of the two as his punches would have taken more out of him considering their frequency and Lennox would have come on and knocked him down 1-2 times. Ali was prone to a flash knock down and it would have been even moreso as he tired. Lewis by SD, I think.
Well it's a possability, but I feel the younger Ali didn't tire. He was so gifted as a natural athlete and almost perfect for the fight game. I still picture his counters versus fighters like Zora Folley, Clevland Williams and Jerry Quarry and think that he could counter any heavyweaight like that and they wouldn't have a chance.
He changed and adapted as fights went on and I feel he would just edge Lewis as his reflexes protected him form Lewis' punches (which i feel were in the top 2/3 hardest ever.)
-
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.
