Should Richard Steel have stopped the Taylor-Chavez(1990) when he did?VOTE

One of the most controvercial moments in boxing history and a very hard call coz there was only afew second left in the fight but I think Steel did the right thing coz Taylor seemed totaly gone and would have just been a target for JJC in the seconds that were left.


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I have seen this pole about 1000 times since the internet has become popular, and we probably will see it another 1000 times in the next 10-15 years, I know some of my boy's like Mick and VD dont agree with me but Taylor won that fight on that night, but Chavez did shot him

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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber

I have seen this pole about 1000 times since the internet has become popular, and we probably will see it another 1000 times in the next 10-15 years, I know some of my boy's like Mick and VD dont agree with me but Taylor won that fight on that night, but Chavez did shot him

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So was it a good stoppage or a bad one? ???

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber

I have seen this pole about 1000 times since the internet has become popular, and we probably will see it another 1000 times in the next 10-15 years, I know some of my boy's like Mick and VD dont agree with me but Taylor won that fight on that night, but Chavez did shot him

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So was it a good stoppage or a bad one? ???

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It was a horrible stoppage, I have seen boxers allowed to continue in alot worse shape than Taylor was, and that was with minutes left in the fight not just 2 seconds ( Trinidad VS Vargas, Trinidad Vs Reid, PBF VS Hatton after the first KD, Pavlik Vs Miranda, Lacy Vs Calazaghe,etc. I can name hundreds of them.

this is impeccable timing (good word that eh ??)

I watched this last night on youtube. In Steele's defence he didn't know how long was left in the fight and Taylor was hurt (but he didn't look that hurt to me ???) - but then again apparently he should have seen the red flashing ten second indicator at ringside.

Another factor that HBO point out is that Lou Duva was distracting Taylor at ringside and Taylor was looking at him rather than the ref to make hinm look more disorientated ?!?!?


It's all here - watch for yourself

[yt=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fkqBvP244[/yt]

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

this is impeccable timing (good word that eh ??)

I watched this last night on youtube. In Steele's defence he didn't know how long was left in the fight and Taylor was hurt (but he didn't look that hurt to me ???) - but then again apparently he should have seen the red flashing ten second indicator at ringside.

Another factor that HBO point out is that Lou Duva was distracting Taylor at ringside and Taylor was looking at him rather than the ref to make hinm look more disorientated ?!?!?


It's all here - watch for yourself

[yt=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fkqBvP244[/yt]

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I have heard this a thousand times, DUVA distracted Taylor but in reality Stelle saw Duva jump on the ring just like Taylor did, he robbed him man and that's the bottom line

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

this is impeccable timing (good word that eh ??)

I watched this last night on youtube. In Steele's defence he didn't know how long was left in the fight and Taylor was hurt (but he didn't look that hurt to me ???) - but then again apparently he should have seen the red flashing ten second indicator at ringside.

Another factor that HBO point out is that Lou Duva was distracting Taylor at ringside and Taylor was looking at him rather than the ref to make hinm look more disorientated ?!?!?


It's all here - watch for yourself

[yt=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fkqBvP244[/yt]

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Does it realy mater how much time is left on the clock?

If the fighter is badly hurt amd cant defend himself the fight is over reguardless.

I agree with Porky. It should'nt matter how much time left. Taylor was all but Knocked out. You could say Steel robbed Taylor of a victory. But I ask you this. If Steel had known there were only secconds left and he had let them continue only because he knew Chavez would not have enough time to finish Taylor. Wouls not stopping it mean he robbed Chavez of a knock out?

Let me give you another scenario. Say fighter A is beating the crap out of fighter B. Fighter A has won every single round. Then with 5 secconds left he gets so frustrated he has not KOed fighter B that he talkles him to the flor and stats kicking him in the face. :o (Ok maybe this is a bit excesive). The ref stops the fight and DQs fighter A with only 1 seccond left. Would you say he robbed fighter A of a victory?

The point is that if you take any sport or any game or compotition and one opponent does something that means victory (in this case making your opponent unable to continue) then he should win regardless if there is 1 seccond left or 10 minutes left.

It was a completely bullshit stoppage imo.

What's so ironic about it though is that some people attempt to justify it on humane grounds and say it's the referee's job to protect a fighter from harm, but it was prescisely this bullshit stoppage that ruined Meldrick Taylor, led to himm fighting on too long and becoming a cruel victim of the sport sufferinf from brain damage in later life.

Chances are if Taylor would have won that fight he would have been satisfied and not continued on as long as he did.

Steele ruined Taylor.

Imagine being one of the poor bastards who put alot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on Taylor to win the fight. The see saw, 1st he is clearly winning the fight by a landslide coming into the 12th with 30 some odd seconds left you see your cash seemingly get flushed by the knock down, just to see him get back up with a few seconds left and you get all your hope back in an instant, just to see it snuffed out again by Steele :o

Thats why I dont gamble on sports :-\ that would be my luck

If there was a rule in boxing that said "If a fighter can barely stand but there are a few seconds left, then he should just go for it and try to finish the fight on his feet" then I would agree that the stop was completely unfair but nope, the rules say that if the fighter cannot answer the referee's call, looks unable to continue, etc. Then the fight it is stopped. That's it! Meldrit Taylor simply couldn't answer the referees call, could barely stand, etc. Blaming it on Duva is a bit weak. Sure, lots of Americans hate JC Chavez but I don't see how this stop was completely wrong.

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it was prescisely this bullshit stoppage that ruined Meldrick Taylor

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Naaaaaaaaah, it was the beating JC Chavez handed him. Look at his face after the fight and you can barely recognize him. Even when Duva is jumping like a maniac in the ring Meldrick's face is like "Uuuuuuuh, where's the cement mixer that just ran over me?"

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Chances are if Taylor would have won that fight he would have been satisfied and not continued on as long as he did.

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Where did you get this psychological stuff? Didn't Taylor thank Steel later on for the stoppage?

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1st he is clearly winning the fight by a landslide coming into the 12th with 30 some odd seconds left you see your cash seemingly get flushed by the knock down, just to see him get back up with a few seconds left and you get all your hope back in an instant, just to see it snuffed out again by Steele
Thats why I dont gamble on sports that would be my luck

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Oh man! I can imagine the same thing! I would pull my hair off. But that is what makes the sport of boxing exciting. A single punch can change the outcome. Chavez landed that punch right on the spot and Taylor simply coulnd't continue.

The fact that it is so debated and still talked about perhaps even too much tells me something was not right about what happened. People see it from different sides but that has got to be one of the worst stoppages i've seen. Very shady if you ask me. Technically chavez won within the time given so he definalty deserved to win but the circumstances were really horrible.

Yes, Taylor was ahead on points while Chavez was slowly destroying him.

Steele: ARE YOU OK?!?!
Taylor: Uuuuuuuuuuuh
Steele: ARE YOU OK?!?!
Taylor: ...Uuuuuuuuuuuuh

I didn't find shady the fact that Taylor simply couldn't continue unless the rules of boxing say that a boxer should be let to continue if a few seconds are left. They guy simply didn't answer the referee's call and those are the rules of boxing. Can't answer the referee? Then you are done.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Yes, Taylor was ahead on points while Chavez was slowly destroying him.

Steele: ARE YOU OK?!?!
Taylor: Uuuuuuuuuuuh
Steele: ARE YOU OK?!?!
Taylor: ...Uuuuuuuuuuuuh

I didn't find shady the fact that Taylor simply couldn't continue unless the rules of boxing say that a boxer should be let to continue if a few seconds are left. They guy simply didn't answer the referee's call and those are the rules of boxing. Can't answer the referee? Then you are done.

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Taylor nodded his head to Steele's question.

Nodding the head is not enough, fighter has to answer and SHOW HE CAN STILL FIGHT or let alone, stand. Anybody who saw the fight knows Taylor simply couldn't continue. People don't argue that, people argue that there were only a few seconds left. Taylor obviously didn't have a drop of gas left in the tank. Face was unrecognizable, could barely stand, couldn't answer the referee's call, etc.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Nodding the head is not enough, fighter has to answer and SHOW HE CAN STILL FIGHT or let alone, stand. Anybody who saw the fight knows Taylor simply couldn't continue. People don't argue that, people argue that there were only a few seconds left. Taylor obviously didn't have a drop of gas left in the tank. Face was unrecognizable, could barely stand, couldn't answer the referee's call, etc.

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Nodding the head is not enough,

Yes it is a boxer normally nods there head to let the ref know there ok.

fighter has to answer and SHOW HE CAN STILL FIGHT or let alone,

Taylor got up at the count of 5, he nodded to Steele's question so he did show he could still fight.

Plus Steele made major errors like not making sure Chavez was in the neutral corner. If he would had the fight would of been over and Taylor would of won. Plus when he asked Taylor a 2nd time if he was ok he didn't give Taylor a chance to answer and waved the fight off immediately.

Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.

I think it was horrible to do that, Taylor was on his way to a victory, he got up, he wouldnt have even taken another punch because there was only 2 seconds. It would have been Steele giving them distance and then by the time he said fight, the bell would have rung.(rang?)

In cases like this its just best to give the benefit of the doubt to the man most capable of determining if Taylor could fight or not. And that man was the one standing 5" from him and looking at him right in the eye. No one here can say he had a better view of Taylor than Steel did. So lets give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.

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You dont have to say anything man are you shitting me? You got a big mouthpiece and are supposed to talk to talk to the ref in the 12th round of a hard fight...lol. All you have to do is nod and put your hands up or walk forward. He did...Here's an example of when you should stop it....Holyfield Bowe 3 Cortez let Holyfield continue after taking about 3-4 second to respond to come forward. He then promptly got hammered back to the floor.

quote author=Chino link=topic=56648.msg739144#msg739144 date=1198866555]
Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.
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Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

It would of took more time plus them precious seconds it would of took to get Chavez in neutral corner. Would of made the difference in the whole fight, Steele didn't do his job properly it was poor referring.

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

He nodded his head to Steele's first question, considering how big the fight was every champion deserves a chance to fight on, Taylor pulled himself up nodded to Steele's question, it was Steele's poor referring that cost him the fight. If Steele would of let the fight go on the bell would of rung no punch would of been landed, Taylor would of won SD.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.

Taylor was well past his prime in the rematch.

That was the worst call in the history of boxing IMO, and Richard Steele is the worst big fight ref of all time as well. His darting eyes dont do much for his credibility...I think he was crooked honestly.

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

Refs use different discretion, I mean who the really knows what Steele's motivation was, but by all accounts he was with in the rules. I personally disagree with the stoppage, Taylor deserved the benefit of the doubt like someone mentioned we have seen a gazillion big time fights that a fighters got the benefit of the doubt in that situation, Taylor wasnt on rubbery legs or stumbling over or clinging on the ropes for dear life ...

Again the discretion of the ref, Frank Capuccino let Gatti and Ward murder each other.. Steve Smoger lets them fight to the death. Technically Steele was in the rules and guidelines but Taylor deserved the benefit of the doubt

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

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Well put. As far as the issue of whether or not Meldick was able to continue, Steele was right in front of him and could see his eyes. He could see that he was hurt, we can only speculate but as a referee who had worked many fights people should trust his judgement. Especially because safety of the fighter is always the number one priority.

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I think it was horrible to do that, Taylor was on his way to a victory, he got up, he wouldnt have even taken another punch because there was only 2 seconds. It would have been Steele giving them distance and then by the time he said fight, the bell would have rung.(rang?)

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It sounds as if decisions should be made depending on how much time is left but the rules were not made depending on how much time was left per round. This argument is based on how much time was left instead of the fact that Meldrick Taylor simply couldn't continue, which is, a TKO.

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And that man was the one standing 5" from him and looking at him right in the eye. No one here can say he had a better view of Taylor than Steel did.

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I remember how Steele would even follow his eyes and look deep into them and ask "Are you ok?.......ARE YOU OK?!?!"

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You dont have to say anything man are you shitting me? You got a big mouthpiece and are supposed to talk to talk to the ref in the 12th round of a hard fight...lol

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I am yet to see a boxer take out his mouthpiece to say "Yeah!...I am fine!...Sure!" or whatever boxers answer when they are asked. We can all hear it even if we are not sitting on ringside. This reminds me of a funny answer from a boxer. It was Tyson vs Ribalta. Ribalta was floored and after the 8 count referee asks "Are you ok?" and he answered "HELL YEAH!" something the commentators even laughed at ;D . The point is, boxers don't need to take out the mouth piece, fix their hair, fix their trunks, etc. Just to answer loud and clear that they are fine. Watch any fight and you can hear boxers go "Yes!...I am fine..." or whatever. Taylor failed to answer.

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All you have to do is nod and put your hands up or walk forward

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Even so, Taylor was way far from being able to walk forward. Look at his face, look at his reaction when the referee asks, etc. If the referee notices that the fighter can't take it anymore the fight will be stopped.

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He did...Here's an example of when you should stop it....Holyfield Bowe 3 Cortez let Holyfield continue after taking about 3-4 second to respond to come forward. He then promptly got hammered back to the floor.

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Exactly, Holyfield didn't even answer and got hammered back. Bad judgement from him. Steel noticed the same thing and made the right choice of not letting him continue regardless of how much time was left.

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Taylor was well past his prime in the rematch.

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How about Chavez? ::**

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The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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Exactly.

I wonder what would have happened if Chavez was the one being floored ::**.

Interesting how so many boxing fans hate Chavez.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

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Well put. As far as the issue of whether or not Meldick was able to continue, Steele was right in front of him and could see his eyes. He could see that he was hurt, we can only speculate but as a referee who had worked many fights people should trust his judgement. Especially because safety of the fighter is always the number one priority.

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referee who had worked many fights people should trust his judgement.

The same ref that stopped Ruddock vs Tyson 1 too early ?? the same ref who stopped Benn vs Eubank 1 too early ?? the same ref that has been in so many controversial fights its unbelievable ?? yes i trust his judgment alright ::**

Interesting that people find controversial for a referee to stop a fight of someone who can't continue. Still, what happened between Chavez vs Taylor 1 has NOTHING to do with bad judgement, it has more to do with the fact that Taylor was winning and there were a few seconds left when the fight was stopped but not because he stopped the fight and Taylor was 100% ready to continue fighting. I am surprised Taylor didn't leave in stretchers.

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Originally Posted by Chino

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I think it was horrible to do that, Taylor was on his way to a victory, he got up, he wouldnt have even taken another punch because there was only 2 seconds. It would have been Steele giving them distance and then by the time he said fight, the bell would have rung.(rang?)

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It sounds as if decisions should be made depending on how much time is left but the rules were not made depending on how much time was left per round. This argument is based on how much time was left instead of the fact that Meldrick Taylor simply couldn't continue, which is, a TKO.

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And that man was the one standing 5" from him and looking at him right in the eye. No one here can say he had a better view of Taylor than Steel did.

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I remember how Steele would even follow his eyes and look deep into them and ask "Are you ok?.......ARE YOU OK?!?!"

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You dont have to say anything man are you shitting me? You got a big mouthpiece and are supposed to talk to talk to the ref in the 12th round of a hard fight...lol

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I am yet to see a boxer take out his mouthpiece to say "Yeah!...I am fine!...Sure!" or whatever boxers answer when they are asked. We can all hear it even if we are not sitting on ringside. This reminds me of a funny answer from a boxer. It was Tyson vs Ribalta. Ribalta was floored and after the 8 count referee asks "Are you ok?" and he answered "HELL YEAH!" something the commentators even laughed at ;D . The point is, boxers don't need to take out the mouth piece, fix their hair, fix their trunks, etc. Just to answer loud and clear that they are fine. Watch any fight and you can hear boxers go "Yes!...I am fine..." or whatever. Taylor failed to answer.

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All you have to do is nod and put your hands up or walk forward

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Even so, Taylor was way far from being able to walk forward. Look at his face, look at his reaction when the referee asks, etc. If the referee notices that the fighter can't take it anymore the fight will be stopped.

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He did...Here's an example of when you should stop it....Holyfield Bowe 3 Cortez let Holyfield continue after taking about 3-4 second to respond to come forward. He then promptly got hammered back to the floor.

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Exactly, Holyfield didn't even answer and got hammered back. Bad judgement from him. Steel noticed the same thing and made the right choice of not letting him continue regardless of how much time was left.

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Taylor was well past his prime in the rematch.

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How about Chavez? ::**

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The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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Exactly.

I wonder what would have happened if Chavez was the one being floored ::**.

Interesting how so many boxing fans hate Chavez.

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It sounds as if decisions should be made depending on how much time is left but the rules were not made depending on how much time was left per round. This argument is based on how much time was left instead of the fact that Meldrick Taylor simply couldn't continue, which is, a TKO.

Not at all even if there was 1 minute left, Taylor still deserved his chance to carry on. Taylor got up, he nodded to Steele's question what else is he supposed to do ??

How about Chavez?

Chavez wasn't in his peak but its not even comparable to Taylor.

Even so, Taylor was way far from being able to walk forward. Look at his face, look at his reaction when the referee asks, etc. If the referee notices that the fighter can't take it anymore the fight will be stopped.

Oh i see Taylor's expression alright when Steele stopped the fight he couldn't believe it. Taylor knew exactly where he was he looked at his corner, responded to Steele's question. It was just plain old bad referring from Steele like he has done time and time again. He should of made sure Chavez was in the neutral corner like every ref does.

Interesting how so many boxing fans hate Chavez.

No one hates Chavez just because some people don't think its fair decision doesn't mean we hate Chavez. If it would of been any boxer i still wouldn't agree with it.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Interesting that people find controversial for a referee to stop a fight of someone who can't continue. Still, what happened between Chavez vs Taylor 1 has NOTHING to do with bad judgement, it has more to do with the fact that Taylor was winning and there were a few seconds left when the fight was stopped but not because he stopped the fight and Taylor was 100% ready to continue fighting. I am surprised Taylor didn't leave in stretchers.

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Interesting that people find controversial for a referee to stop a fight of someone who can't continue.

Thats your opinion that Taylor couldn't continue not a fact.

what happened between Chavez vs Taylor 1 has NOTHING to do with bad judgement, it has more to do with the fact that Taylor was winning and there were a few seconds left when the fight was stopped but not because he stopped the fight and Taylor was 100% ready to continue fighting. I am surprised Taylor didn't leave in stretchers.

Well thats obvious Taylor was winning the fight easily on points, if the fight would have continued the bell would of rung and Taylor would of won a decision. Taylor did respond to Steele's question, but Steele took matters into his own hands and denied Taylor of winning the fight, because of his bad referring.

I have always been suspicious about this fight i mean how 1 judge could have Chavez winning the fight is ludicrous.

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Thats your opinion that Taylor couldn't continue not a fact.

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A guy that is not able to respond to the simple question twice "are you ok?......ARE YOU OK?!?!" doesn’t really show like he can still take some more punches, huh?

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Well thats obvious Taylor was winning the fight easily on points

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Sure, I won't argue that. He was not damaging Chavez AT ALL but still connecting with some fast punches here and there, good combos, etc.

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if the fight would have continued the bell would of rung and Taylor would of won a decision

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I know, but Taylor got knocked down and couldn’t continue so the fight was stopped unfortunately with a few seconds left.

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Taylor did respond to Steele's question, but Steele took matters into his own hands and denied Taylor of winning the fight, because of his bad referring.

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Look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod. But still, referee made the question twice because he was simply not showing any signs of being able to continue (not answering vocally, not in a position physicall to show he could take some more, etc.).

Now I wonder if people would think differently if the fight had, say, a minute left when it was stopped.

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I have always been suspicious about this fight i mean how 1 judge could have Chavez winning the fight is ludicrous.

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Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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you and one other person on this forum ::** your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather ???

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Thats your opinion that Taylor couldn't continue not a fact.

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A guy that is not able to respond to the simple question twice "are you ok?......ARE YOU OK?!?!" doesn’t really show like he can still take some more punches, huh?

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Well thats obvious Taylor was winning the fight easily on points

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Sure, I won't argue that. He was not damaging Chavez AT ALL but still connecting with some fast punches here and there, good combos, etc.

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if the fight would have continued the bell would of rung and Taylor would of won a decision

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I know, but Taylor got knocked down and couldn’t continue so the fight was stopped unfortunately with a few seconds left.

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Taylor did respond to Steele's question, but Steele took matters into his own hands and denied Taylor of winning the fight, because of his bad referring.

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Look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod. But still, referee made the question twice because he was simply not showing any signs of being able to continue (not answering vocally, not in a position physicall to show he could take some more, etc.).

Now I wonder if people would think differently if the fight had, say, a minute left when it was stopped.

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I have always been suspicious about this fight i mean how 1 judge could have Chavez winning the fight is ludicrous.

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Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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A guy that is not able to respond to the simple question twice "are you ok?......ARE YOU OK?!?!" doesn’t really show like he can still take some more punches, huh?

Well you think different than me on this matter, but Taylor did nod his head to Steele. IMO that is enough evidence to let Taylor go on. Taylor was hurting and he didn't have much left and he was fading fast, but Taylor got himself up responded to the ref, and every champion deserves a chance to go on but thats my opinion anyway.

Sure, I won't argue that. He was not damaging Chavez AT ALL but still connecting with some fast punches here and there, good combos, etc.

Chavez was landing the much harder blows i heard the sound of them they were very damaging blows, but points wise Taylor was a mile ahead plus Taylor was out landing Chavez 2 to 1, and he was beating Chavez on the outside and inside.

I know, but Taylor got knocked down and couldn’t continue so the fight was stopped unfortunately with a few seconds left.

Taylor got knocked down but got up like a true champion and responded to Steele, just look at Taylor's expression when the fight was stopped he was heart broken he couldn't believe it.

look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod.

Taylor was still very much there, he turned around and even looked at his corner so he still had his bearings.

But still, referee made the question twice because he was simply not showing any signs of being able to continue (not answering vocally, not in a position physicall to show he could take some more, etc.).

To be honest Steele didn't even give Taylor a chance to respond a 2nd time, he see Taylor was looking at his corner, and just when Taylor turned to Steele he waved it off immediately not giving Taylor a chance what so ever.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Chino

Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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you and one other person on this forum ::** your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather ???

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I had Mayweather winning by 4 or 3 rounds, if some people would watch the fight closely, it really isn't that close at all, Oscar's flurries were not effective. Mayweather was landing the much cleaner, sharper blows.

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

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Your telling me Richard Steele who has ref'd hundreds of fights doesnt have the feel for how long a round is??? In that clip he even says Chavez started to come on in the last 25 seconds. If he didnt know that round was almost over he shouldnt be refereeing a championship fight!

Ok Chino you misquoted and misunderstood me. You dont have to say I am alright a head nod is enough. I never saw Steele give him the chance to come forward he just corraled him in the corner and stopped it, look at Taylor look as he stopped it does that look like a man that doesnt want to go on?

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you and one other person on this forum your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather

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There's a reason why it even went to a split decision. I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

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Chavez was landing the much harder blows i heard the sound of them they were very damaging blows, but points wise Taylor was a mile ahead plus Taylor was out landing Chavez 2 to 1, and he was beating Chavez on the outside and inside.

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I know. Punches were raining over Chavez. Good fast combos from Taylor. Chavez landind the more effective damaging punches but Taylor scoring more points.

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Taylor got knocked down but got up like a true champion and responded to Steele, just look at Taylor's expression when the fight was stopped he was heart broken he couldn't believe it.

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Anyone who looses will have that look. What I see is Taylor with a facial expression of not knowing what hit him when Steele was asking him twice if he was ok. Instead of nodding I see Taylor just trying to follow Steele with his eyes. If I was Taylor I would at least do what most boxers do to show they are fine: firm boxers stance, walk towards the referee determined, raise their hands, vocally say they are fine, walk back and forth as the referee is counting, jumping, and so on. Taylor couldn't do any of those.

Look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod.

Wrong! He nodded looked at Lou, then nodded again you watching the same clip bro?

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Originally Posted by Chino

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you and one other person on this forum your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather

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There's a reason why it even went to a split decision. I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

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Chavez was landing the much harder blows i heard the sound of them they were very damaging blows, but points wise Taylor was a mile ahead plus Taylor was out landing Chavez 2 to 1, and he was beating Chavez on the outside and inside.

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I know. Punches were raining over Chavez. Good fast combos from Taylor. Chavez landind the more effective damaging punches but Taylor scoring more points.

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Taylor got knocked down but got up like a true champion and responded to Steele, just look at Taylor's expression when the fight was stopped he was heart broken he couldn't believe it.

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Anyone who looses will have that look. What I see is Taylor with a facial expression of not knowing what hit him when Steele was asking him twice if he was ok. Instead of nodding I see Taylor just trying to follow Steele with his eyes. If I was Taylor I would at least do what most boxers do to show they are fine: firm boxers stance, walk towards the referee determined, raise their hands, vocally say they are fine, walk back and forth as the referee is counting, jumping, and so on. Taylor couldn't do any of those.

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There's a reason why it even went to a split decision. I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

Oh come on bro just because 1 judge got it completely wrong doesn't mean it was close. Only 2 people on this forum even think this fight was even debatable and thats you and another member called Pacdog. After 9 rounds the fight was close but Mayweather pulled away and won too many of the later rounds, i really can't see how anyone could have Oscar winning that fight, if you watch it closely and see how many of Oscar's flurries were effective. And actually see how many were landing.

I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

Nothing wrong in thinking Mayweather won 1st Castillo fight, it could of gone either way. But thats completely different to the Oscar De La Hoya fight.

As for your last comment No Contest already done a fine job of answering that so there is no need for me to answer it.