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Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
For the first 9 or 10 years of his career most of the British or even Welsh general public had never heard of Joe Calzaghe.
Its only after his win over lacy that he was widly known.Then he packed the millenium stadium with 35000 against a bum.Them another 55000 against Kesller.Then BBc sports personality of the year.All in 2 years.
I put this down to Warren been more interested in his other fighters he was promoting at the time such as Benn,Naz and Tyson to name a few.
Calzaghe could amd should have been a British Boxing superstar for at least the last 5 years.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
For the first 9 or 10 years of his career most of the British or even Welsh general public had never heard of Joe Calzaghe.
Its only after his win over lacy that he was widly known.Then he packed the millenium stadium with 35000 against a bum.Them another 55000 against Kesller.Then BBc sports personality of the year.All in 2 years.
I put this down to Warren been more interested in his other fighters he was promoting at the time such as Benn,Naz and Tyson to name a few.
Calzaghe could amd should have been a British Boxing superstar for at least the last 5 years.
Sure...I believe taht he has...but in the end...Joe agreed to saddle up that pony that he refused to ride anywhere but merry ole' EngRand!
Had Joe pushed hard enough...I believe that he might have gotten to go elsewhere...but he didn't...& here's where we are.
In the end...I don't have that many issues with it...because in the end...Jones jr, Hopkins, Oscar, & Floyd are all guilty of doing the same & they are still considered to be our greatest champions stateside.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
I agree with all that has been said.Its such a waisted oppertunity,Calzaghe could have been a British boxing superstar for years.
I think he has been to layed back and has not been willing to force the issue the same way Hatton was for example.
I think Enzo has forced the Haye fight on Warren IMO.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
For the first 9 or 10 years of his career most of the British or even Welsh general public had never heard of Joe Calzaghe.
Its only after his win over lacy that he was widly known.Then he packed the millenium stadium with 35000 against a bum.Them another 55000 against Kesller.Then BBc sports personality of the year.All in 2 years.
I put this down to Warren been more interested in his other fighters he was promoting at the time such as Benn,Naz and Tyson to name a few.
Calzaghe could amd should have been a British Boxing superstar for at least the last 5 years.
Sure...I believe taht he has...but in the end...Joe agreed to saddle up that pony that he refused to ride anywhere but merry ole' EngRand!
Had Joe pushed hard enough...I believe that he might have gotten to go elsewhere...but he didn't...& here's where we are.
In the end...I don't have that many issues with it...because in the end...
Jones jr, Hopkins, Oscar, & Floyd are all guilty of doing the same & they are still considered to be our greatest champions stateside.
The fighters you mentioned all fought more big names than Calzaghe. They don't have a ? mark next to there resume like Calzaghe does.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by porkypara
For the first 9 or 10 years of his career most of the British or even Welsh general public had never heard of Joe Calzaghe.
Its only after his win over lacy that he was wetly known.Then he packed the millenium stadium with 35000 against a bum.Them another 55000 against Kesller.Then BBc sports personality of the year.All in 2 years.
I put this down to Warren been more interested in his other fighters he was promoting at the time such as Benn,Naz and Tyson to name a few.
Calzaghe could amd should have been a British Boxing superstar for at least the last 5 years.
Sure...I believe taht he has...but in the end...Joe agreed to saddle up that pony that he refused to ride anywhere but merry ole' EngRand!
Had Joe pushed hard enough...I believe that he might have gotten to go elsewhere...but he didn't...& here's where we are.
In the end...I don't have that many issues with it...because in the end...
Jones jr, Hopkins, Oscar, & Floyd are all guilty of doing the same & they are still considered to be our greatest champions stateside.
The fighters you mentioned all fought more big names than Calzaghe. They don't have a ? mark next to there resume like Calzaghe does.
Agreed.But the market was there in wales at least for a super star and Warren did not exploite it.
All the fighter I named were big names coz they were promoted the right way early in there boxing careers.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by nuclear bull
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
When at SM Roy Jones avoided Nigel Benn like the black death.
Jones has no chin and never had a chin thats why he never faced Ben in the ring.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
It's hard to say that Warren hasn't held back Joe's career to some extent, and I agree that until recently he has struggled to get huge fights, but that also has to go for the SMW division. For years, especially 2001-2005 the world title scene has really been desolate, with little more than Markus Beyer, Sven Ottke, Brian Magee, Robin Reid, and perennial title challengers like Omar Sheika.
I think that although Warren didn't make the biggest fights possible for Joe, potential opponents like those above didn't give him a huge amount to work with, and that Calzaghe's star has risen with the rise of the SMW division too.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
i think its funny how so many of the fighters warren is promoter to...... come out with the story that big name fighters avoid them etc etc etc
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by nuclear bull
i think its funny how so many of the fighters warren is promoter to...... come out with the story that big name fighters avoid them etc etc etc
For example?????????????????????????
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
wipe you're mouth mate, once again you are way out of your depth.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
I think that Warren has held Calzaghe back, but i feel that this is a post designed for people who dislike Joe. Those who dislike Calzaghe could answer not this question, but one regarding the fighters he has not fought. Some need to face the fact that Calzaghe is very good, and would have had a chance against any possible challenge.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
wipe you're mouth mate, once again you are way out of your depth.
And once again you let your lust for Calzaghe cloud your judgment.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
wipe you're mouth mate, once again you are way out of your depth.
Calm down ROB & VD you both make fair points , Warren hasnt delivered the top names , untill Kessler ,
Joe has proved to me hes top class, but he could have switch promoters if he wasnt happy with Warren.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Yes is the answer to the topic question
Imagine how big Joe would be in he were an American with King as his promoter or Golden boy , Arum etc . P4P number 1 with many superfights under his belt .
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Easily yes.
Look what he did to Hatton up until he fought Kosta and I'm so glad Ricky left him because I dread to think who would he be fighting today. But Frank has wasted Joe end of. He should of got that bout with Ottke as we all knew he was capable of beating him but an undefeated name like him on his record, beating the other best SM at the time looks great. Sure he beat Kessler which is great but you have to look what has he done besides Kessler ???
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by porkypara
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Originally Posted by nuclear bull
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
When at SM Roy Jones avoided Nigel Benn like the black death.
Jones has no chin and never had a chin thats why he never faced Ben in the ring.
Jones never avoided Benn i remember seeing an interview where Jones answered all these questions about Benn, Eubank etc. Its lucky for Benn that Jones didn't fight him after the McClellan fight. Because Benn after that fight was a shot fighter and Jones would of embarrassed him.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
I think Joe has enjoyed padding his record out with bums aswell if Joe felt Warren was holding him back he would have left him years ago same as Naz and Hatton did so we cant just blame Warren for Calzaghes poor oppposition.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Ive often wondered how much his devorce played a part in all this. Im sure it must have :D
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
I remember warren offered sven "i'm no chicken" ottke more money than he had ever made for a bout to box CALZAGHE in germany and the brave sven turned it down flat. If the other champions are scared to box him what can he do? He could have vacated the WBO belt boxed the IBF no1 then forced sven to box him. but its all ifs and whats.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Scrap
Ive often wondered how much his devorce played a part in all this. Im sure it must have :D
What do you mean?
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
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Originally Posted by nuclear bull
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
When at SM Roy Jones avoided Nigel Benn like the black death.
Jones has no chin and never had a chin thats why he never faced Ben in the ring.
Jones never avoided Benn i remember seeing an interview where Jones answered all these questions about Benn, Eubank etc. Its lucky for Benn that Jones didn't fight him after the McClellan fight. Because Benn after that fight was a shot fighter and Jones would of embarrassed him.
After the McClellan fight Benn was despraite to fight Jones in the UK or US but Jones just avioded the fight.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
well will someone tell me this, what more could he of done in the SMW division?
he has beat every challenger at the weight for 10 years, maybe he should of stepped up to LH weight..
Maybe Hopkins should ofstopped by and faced Joe before he fought Tarver
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
agreed...besides it has turned out OK in the long run right?..and besides I bet Joe's bank account is not complaining....Maybe it was hampered a bit,,,I put more blame on the promoter early on then the fighter because fighters know little about the workings of the sport other then fighting (believe it or not but true)...once the fighter reaches a certain level though the blame is shared equally....
Unless Warren has him in such a rock solid clad contract with so many ins and outs it is pretty much financial ruin to leave him?....I have seen that happen before as well..
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
agreed...besides it has turned out OK in the long run right?..and besides I bet Joe's bank account is not complaining....Maybe it was hampered a bit,,,I put more blame on the promoter early on then the fighter because fighters know little about the workings of the sport other then fighting (believe it or not but true)...once the fighter reaches a certain level though the blame is shared equally....
Unless Warren has him in such a rock solid clad contract with so many ins and outs it is pretty much financial ruin to leave him?....I have seen that happen before as well..
I realise what you mention about contracts can be the reality in some cases, but having read Joe's autbiography, and knowing a little about his early pro career, where he was making little more than bus fare each way with another promoter, I'm pretty sure he would have had some serious advice and guidance when he went to sign with Warren, and I don't think its likely that he's there against his will.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by porkypara
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
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Originally Posted by nuclear bull
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
When at SM Roy Jones avoided Nigel Benn like the black death.
Jones has no chin and never had a chin thats why he never faced Ben in the ring.
Jones never avoided Benn i remember seeing an interview where Jones answered all these questions about Benn, Eubank etc. Its lucky for Benn that Jones didn't fight him after the McClellan fight. Because Benn after that fight was a shot fighter and Jones would of embarrassed him.
After the McClellan fight Benn was despraite to fight Jones in the UK or US but Jones just avioded the fight.
No he didn't search on Youtube Jones answer's all the question's about Benn, Eubank. If i remember right Benn was going to get his shot if he beat Malinga, who was supposed to give Benn a tough fight but Benn was expected to blow away Malinga, it didn't happen Benn was out boxed. His career was basically over after the McClellan fight.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear bull
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
When at SM Roy Jones avoided Nigel Benn like the black death.
Jones has no chin and never had a chin thats why he never faced Ben in the ring.
Jones never avoided Benn i remember seeing an interview where Jones answered all these questions about Benn, Eubank etc. Its lucky for Benn that Jones didn't fight him after the McClellan fight. Because Benn after that fight was a shot fighter and Jones would of embarrassed him.
After the McClellan fight Benn was despraite to fight Jones in the UK or US but Jones just avioded the fight.
No he didn't search on Youtube Jones answer's all the question's about Benn, Eubank. If i remember right Benn was going to get his shot if he beat Malinga, who was supposed to give Benn a tough fight but Benn was expected to blow away Malinga, it didn't happen Benn was out boxed. His career was basically over after the McClellan fight.
Benn were'nt expected to blow Malinga away
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by porkypara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear bull
the fact is warren likes a easy payday with as little risk as possible and joe doesn't want to fight outside the uk, surely calzaghe knows that the bums he's fighting are bums, guys who even he's never heard of until he fights them
roy jones, hopkins where undis world champs, who fought other big names,. joes been wbo champ for 10 years, he droped the ibf belt after winning it and nows gona drop the wba and wbc belts without defending them
When at SM Roy Jones avoided Nigel Benn like the black death.
Jones has no chin and never had a chin thats why he never faced Ben in the ring.
Jones never avoided Benn i remember seeing an interview where Jones answered all these questions about Benn, Eubank etc. Its lucky for Benn that Jones didn't fight him after the McClellan fight. Because Benn after that fight was a shot fighter and Jones would of embarrassed him.
After the McClellan fight Benn was despraite to fight Jones in the UK or US but Jones just avioded the fight.
No he didn't search on Youtube Jones answer's all the question's about Benn, Eubank. If i remember right Benn was going to get his shot if he beat Malinga, who was supposed to give Benn a tough fight but Benn was expected to blow away Malinga, it didn't happen Benn was out boxed. His career was basically over after the McClellan fight.
Benn were'nt expected to blow Malinga away
After the McClellan fight everyone was high on Benn, what i meant is that people didn't expect Malinga to give Benn too many problems.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Benn first fought Malinga before he fought McClellan and Malinga took him the full 10 so when they fought the 2nd time everyone who knew anything about boxing knew it would be close again i think Boxing news predicted Benn UD12 so it was never going to be a walk in the park.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yes. But Warren doesn't deserve all the blame. in all there years working together, Calzaghe never once question Warren's decisions. No matter how many bums or shot fighters he fought, Calzaghe kept his mouth closed. Calzaghe is as much to blame as Warren
agreed...besides it has turned out OK in the long run right?..and besides I bet Joe's bank account is not complaining....Maybe it was hampered a bit,,,I put more blame on the promoter early on then the fighter because fighters know little about the workings of the sport other then fighting (believe it or not but true)...once the fighter reaches a certain level though the blame is shared equally....
Unless Warren has him in such a rock solid clad contract with so many ins and outs it is pretty much financial ruin to leave him?....I have seen that happen before as well..
I realise what you mention about contracts can be the reality in some cases, but having read Joe's autbiography, and knowing a little about his early pro career, where he was making little more than bus fare each way with another promoter, I'm pretty sure he would have had some serious advice and guidance when he went to sign with Warren, and I don't think its likely that he's there against his will.
I was just giving could be situations to the original post on to why Joe is with Frank or has Frank hurt his career...it is situations like those I mentioned that will keep a fighter with a promoter against his will...Notice I also mentioned his bank account is not complaining and it has turned out OK in the long run reguardless....Calzaghe has managed to make a good sum of Money and he has established his legacy in stone...IMO the rest is irreguardless
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Porkpara, I believe Joe was going througth a messy divorce over a few years and earning big money would not have helped in a settlement. I think that it could have a lot to do with it. I noticed after the Big fights started to happen. Call me old fashion. :D
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
Benn first fought Malinga before he fought McClellan and Malinga took him the full 10 so when they fought the 2nd time everyone who knew anything about boxing knew it would be close again i think Boxing news predicted Benn UD12 so it was never going to be a walk in the park.
Benn got a gift in the 1st Malinga fight he should of lost.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
Benn first fought Malinga before he fought McClellan and Malinga took him the full 10 so when they fought the 2nd time everyone who knew anything about boxing knew it would be close again i think Boxing news predicted Benn UD12 so it was never going to be a walk in the park.
Benn got a gift in the 1st Malinga fight he should of lost.
I did'nt say owt about that you said that Benn was expected to blow Malinga away.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Porkpara, I believe Joe was going througth a messy divorce over a few years and earning big money would not have helped in a settlement. I think that it could have a lot to do with it. I noticed after the Big fights started to happen. Call me old fashion. :D
An old fashioned old cynic eh? ;) Some might say you're reading too much into it....not me though, I love a conspiracy theory.
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
To be honest Super, I did here whispers :D
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
It's all very well saying Warren held him back, but from what? He's in a small minority of fighters with a very successful career.
It's impossible to say how things would have turned-out if they're done different.
For example - Calzaghe was only halted from moving to Lightheavy a few years back through injury. Had that move gone smoothly he would've never achieved the great wins over Lacy and Kessler (which made him).
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
Benn first fought Malinga before he fought McClellan and Malinga took him the full 10 so when they fought the 2nd time everyone who knew anything about boxing knew it would be close again i think Boxing news predicted Benn UD12 so it was never going to be a walk in the park.
Benn got a gift in the 1st Malinga fight he should of lost.
I did'nt say owt about that you said that Benn was expected to blow Malinga away.
I didn't say you did but you brought up the 1st fight, so i thought i would give my 2 cents and say Benn got a gift decision ;)
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Re: Has Frank Warren held back Joe calzaghe's career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYWEATHER P4P#1
Benn first fought Malinga before he fought McClellan and Malinga took him the full 10 so when they fought the 2nd time everyone who knew anything about boxing knew it would be close again i think Boxing news predicted Benn UD12 so it was never going to be a walk in the park.
Benn got a gift in the 1st Malinga fight he should of lost.
I did'nt say owt about that you said that Benn was expected to blow Malinga away.
I didn't say you did but you brought up the 1st fight, so i thought i would give my 2 cents and say Benn got a gift decision ;)
Oh right yes he did get a gift decision yes you lost me for a minute ;D
