Saddoboxing's Greatest Welterweight Of All Time Competition

You may remember I ran a competition to find out the Greatest Heavyweight Of All Time in the opinion of the most knowledgable fans on the web... the loyal Saddonians, or whatever we are all called. Now the same competition will be run again but this time with the 147lbs fighters. 16 fighters battle it out to be crowned the best Welterweight in history. I will post the polls and the first to 10 votes wins and advances to the next stage. Until we have a winner: The Saddoboxing Greatest Welterweight Of All-Time !!!

Last time, I selected the combatants but there has been a slight change o the system. You select the shortlist of 16 and then the competition will begin. Use this thread to post any number of welters you wouldlike to see in the final. Serious suggestions only please. Once a considerable number of fighter's have been suggested the more popular picks will go into the main tourney.

Thank You

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

CC CMMick, thanks for responding. Great list, i would go as for to say that could very well be the final list but any more suggestions are welcome. Should F.Mayweather be included ? All views welcome

Here is my 16


Hearns
Leonard
Robinson
Trinidad
Quartey
Whitaker
Napoles
Griffith
Cuevas
Cokes
Curry
Brown
Honeygan
Kid Gavilan
Breland
De La Hoya

This list isn't in order.

Pernell Whitaker
Thomas Hearns
Henry Armstrong
Felix Trinidad
Pipino Cuevas
Sugar Ray Robinson
Jose Angel Napoles
Emile Griffith
Kid Gavilan
Donald Curry
Oscar De La Hoya
Sugar Ray Leonard
Joe Walcott
Simon Brown
Carlos Palomino
Mickey Walker

.....well this is freaking easy Ray Robinson, end of.....next division please



I will read everyone else's opinions but my mind is made up....Robinson had the ability to beat anyone on any given night

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Originally Posted by Lyle

.....well this is freaking easy Ray Robinson, end of.....next division please



I will read everyone else's opinions but my mind is made up....Robinson had the ability to beat anyone on any given night

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The thing is though Lyle how many Welterweight fights of Robinson have you actually seen ?? because there is little to no footage at all of Robinson at Welterweight.

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

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Originally Posted by Lyle

.....well this is freaking easy Ray Robinson, end of.....next division please



I will read everyone else's opinions but my mind is made up....Robinson had the ability to beat anyone on any given night

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The thing is though Lyle how many Welterweight fights of Robinson have you actually seen ?? because there is little to no footage at all of Robinson at Welterweight.

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Lyle is just going on what history says.

There is little to no footage but there is footage of him at middleweight and there is his record at welterweight where he lost to LaMatta (who was basically at middleweight weighing in at 160 1/2), he beat Zivic twice, he beat Hank Armstrong, avenged the loss vs LaMatta (3 times), and he beat Kid Gavilain (once on a shakey decision and another time legitimately)

That's basically all the info I need....I admit he COULD have lost to basically any of the greats but hell I COULD fly a rocketship to the moon. I just figure that Ray Robinson is the favorite to win in most any fight that can be made at welterweight in the history of boxing......I did of course use the qualifier "most any fight"....sure the big guys that can punch always cause problems and the speedy slick guys do too but Ray one of the greatest pound for pound boxers of all time for a reason.

Tommy Hearns is a scary fight for anyone at 147

Its gotta be hands down SRR, then I go with Emile second, hmm what sucks is the guys before t.v. days kind of get screwed by history. Its too hard for me to decide without some kind of break down by era.

These tourneys have hade some major suprises already though. Louis went out in the first round and Ali was one vote away from doing the same.

Ray Robinson easy for me

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

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How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

My top ten in no particular order

I'm not a big follower of the older (pre-video) fighters so I will only mention the obvious ones

Armstrong (bassed solely on his reccord and the fact that he has the reccord for title defenses at the division)
SRR (I have never really seen a full SRR fight but when we talk WW we should mention SRR)
SRL (One of the most complete fighters I have ever seen)
Hearns (Could beat anyone in a one to one fight)
Napoles (Poetry in motion. Represented his name of Mantequilla very well)
Griffith (One bad mother fo**)
Whitaker (Though I think his best was at Lightweight, he sertanly made his mark at ww too)
Trinidad (Longest reining ww champion and best ww in a very strong era)
Donald Curry (Very dominant in his time but arrived in between to golden eras and was sadly not part of either)
De La Hoya (Trinidad's match though not as dominant at ww. See Quartey, Carr, Mosley, Whitaker, Trinidad)

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

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How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

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Because I think this will be the division at which he is rated. '
For example: Duran fought as a Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight, Middleweight and very late in his career as a Super Middleweight. But Durans best work was as a Lightweight so that's where I rate him.

Cotto was a Light Welterweight and is now a Welterweight and I feel this is where he will be rated at. I feel he will do his best work that is why I listed him. Plus I couldnt list fighters like Walker, Lewis, Britton or Young Corbett cause I haven't seen enough of them to rate them.
I listed fighters whom I know and have seen fight.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

---

How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

---

Because I think this will be the division at which he is rated. '
For example: Duran fought as a Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight, Middleweight and very late in his career as a Super Middleweight. But Durans best work was as a Lightweight so that's where I rate him.

Cotto was a Light Welterweight and is now a Welterweight and I feel this is where he will be rated at. I feel he will do his best work that is why I listed him. Plus I couldnt list fighters like Walker, Lewis, Britton or Young Corbett cause I haven't seen enough of them to rate them.
I listed fighters whom I know and have seen fight.

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But the thread title says "all time". While Cotto may be in the future, he ain't right now

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

---

How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

---

Because I think this will be the division at which he is rated. '
For example: Duran fought as a Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight, Middleweight and very late in his career as a Super Middleweight. But Durans best work was as a Lightweight so that's where I rate him.

Cotto was a Light Welterweight and is now a Welterweight and I feel this is where he will be rated at. I feel he will do his best work that is why I listed him. Plus I couldnt list fighters like Walker, Lewis, Britton or Young Corbett cause I haven't seen enough of them to rate them.
I listed fighters whom I know and have seen fight.

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But the thread title says "all time". While Cotto may be in the future, he ain't right now

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Right on VD,
I guess I was listing him cause I think he will be an all-time great as a Welter. But he is not an all-time great yet.
I'll remove Cotto and add Hearns.
That should do it..... :)

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

---

How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

---

Because I think this will be the division at which he is rated. '
For example: Duran fought as a Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight, Middleweight and very late in his career as a Super Middleweight. But Durans best work was as a Lightweight so that's where I rate him.

Cotto was a Light Welterweight and is now a Welterweight and I feel this is where he will be rated at. I feel he will do his best work that is why I listed him. Plus I couldnt list fighters like Walker, Lewis, Britton or Young Corbett cause I haven't seen enough of them to rate them.
I listed fighters whom I know and have seen fight.

---

But the thread title says "all time". While Cotto may be in the future, he ain't right now

---

Right on VD,
I guess I was listing him cause I think he will be an all-time great as a Welter. But he is not an all-time great yet.
I'll remove Cotto and add Hearns.
That should do it..... :)

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I'm shocked you didn't have Hearns in the first place

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

---

How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

---

Because I think this will be the division at which he is rated. '
For example: Duran fought as a Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight, Middleweight and very late in his career as a Super Middleweight. But Durans best work was as a Lightweight so that's where I rate him.

Cotto was a Light Welterweight and is now a Welterweight and I feel this is where he will be rated at. I feel he will do his best work that is why I listed him. Plus I couldnt list fighters like Walker, Lewis, Britton or Young Corbett cause I haven't seen enough of them to rate them.
I listed fighters whom I know and have seen fight.

---

But the thread title says "all time". While Cotto may be in the future, he ain't right now

---

Right on VD,
I guess I was listing him cause I think he will be an all-time great as a Welter. But he is not an all-time great yet.
I'll remove Cotto and add Hearns.
That should do it..... :)

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I'm shocked you didn't have Hearns in the first place

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Maybe Mick thinks Hearns best wins were at Light Middleweight etc, but still Hearns destroyed Pipino Cuevas who was making his 12th title defense of his Welterweight title. And that alone should give Hearns a place on the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here they are:

Emile
Napoles
SRL
SRR
Armstrong
Pernell
Tito
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Curry
Lloyd
Simon Brown
Cotto
ODLH
Pipino
Palomino

I wanted to list guys who had done enough in the division. I didn't want to list fighters who have and or only fought 2 or 3 times as Welters.

---

How in the hell is Cotto on the list when he's been at welter for only 1 year?!?!

---

Because I think this will be the division at which he is rated. '
For example: Duran fought as a Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight, Middleweight and very late in his career as a Super Middleweight. But Durans best work was as a Lightweight so that's where I rate him.

Cotto was a Light Welterweight and is now a Welterweight and I feel this is where he will be rated at. I feel he will do his best work that is why I listed him. Plus I couldnt list fighters like Walker, Lewis, Britton or Young Corbett cause I haven't seen enough of them to rate them.
I listed fighters whom I know and have seen fight.

---

But the thread title says "all time". While Cotto may be in the future, he ain't right now

---

Right on VD,
I guess I was listing him cause I think he will be an all-time great as a Welter. But he is not an all-time great yet.
I'll remove Cotto and add Hearns.
That should do it..... :)

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I'm shocked you didn't have Hearns in the first place

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I was certain 100% of the people that would post would list Hearns so I was just trying to add something different to the list.

Charley Burley. I believe even Robinson didn't want to fight him.

He was a welter, The story goes that in reality he was never over 11st

The shortlist of 16:

1) Sugar Ray Robinson
Born Walker Smith Jr. in 1921. Went on to compile a record of 173-19-6. Probably the finest boxer of all time. Reigned as Welterweight Champion from 1946-1950. Fought 5 fellow World Champions.
2) Sugar Ray Leonard
Went 36-3-1 against some of the finest competition of all time. A masterful athlete and boxer.
3) Henry Armstrong
Welterweight Champion between 1938 and 1940. With all due respect an absolute freak of nature. With a heartbeat at rest well below 50 bpm he was perhaps one of the most naturally enduring and fit fighters ever. A questionable record estimated to be 149-21-10 although it varies between sources.
4) Donald Curry
Before Honeyghan shattered his aura of indestructability, Curry was seen as just that, absolutley indestructible. With a fine record of 34-6 with wins over fighters such as Starling and McCrory I'd be interested in facing him with the ATG's while he was at his peak.
5) Wilfred Benitez
A fighter who just seemed to do the wrong thing. His favourite position was to have his back on the ropes as the opponent fired at him. However, he was so good he used this style to compile a record of 53-8-1. He's on my list.
6) Emille Griffith
85-24-2.What a fighter.
Pro debut in 1958, Last fight in 1977 against a middleweight champ in Alan Minter...Wow is all that needs to be said. Warrior.
7) Kid Gavilan
108-30-5. Champion between 1951 and 1954. See the Latin Legends feature Mick uploaded, he features heavily. A great fighter that provided some of the most scintilating action ever in the ring.
8) Mickey Walker
The Toy Bulldog was a rough tough guy, that deserves to compete with the greats. 109-22-5 a great fighter that competed between 140 and 174
9) Johnny Saxton
Champ from 54-55 and again in 56, Gave a good account of himself leaving a record of 55-9-2. Fought 4 fellow Champions. A popular fighter who is another that deserves to be remembered and the right to compete.
10)Felix Trinidad
Vaguely familiar name from Puerto Rico.
11)Oscar De la Hoya
Don't let his activites as of late tarnish his memories, he was a great Welter that would have been competitive in any era. Although soft spoken, he was tough at 147 and even above and he was a great fighter.
12)Roberto Duran
Hands of Stone could have had a good fight locked in a cell on his own with a gallon of whiskey. One of the most ferocious fighters of all time, but also underrated in terms of speed, accuracy and defense.
13)Tony DeMarco
Champion way back in 1955. It's not that I'm running short on names, it's just he's one guy that could fight anywhere and i dream of a brawl with Duran!!!
14)Ted Lewis
The Kid was champion in 1915-16 and reigned again from 1917-19.
15)Miguel Cotto
I believe he's a rather good young fellow from some tiny Island somewhere.
16)Floyd Mayweather Jr.
The creme de la creme. God I hate him, but he's just that good.

Note: I have excluded two names I feel should be on the list simply because I know little about them. Palomino was a great but I never saw him fight. The original Joe Walcott was a great fighter but there is little footage available so he's far too obscure. :(

Sorry for rambling on but that was great fun!!!

when is the first fight posted??? This sounds fun, cant wait for it to begin!! and also how do you decide who fights who....isit just randomly selected or some kind of method to it?

Duran as a professional actually started fighting as a Bantamweight believe it or not. It is hard to imagine!hehe

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

Duran as a professional actually started fighting as a Bantamweight believe it or not. It is hard to imagine!hehe

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He actually beat a solid name as a Super Bantamweight as well Carlos Mendoza.

Put Leonards chin and stamina on Tommy Hearns and thats as good as it gets :)

top #3

...SRL
...HEARNS
...PBF