Why do people say Trinidad is finished?

I was thinking about the RJJ-Tito fight and generally the public is viewing it as two washed up fighters fighting for a paycheck. But then I started thinking, Tito isn't washed up. Honestly, the guy is about to turn 35, so he's not really all that old like RJJ, Tarver, B-Hop and some of these other dinosaurs. He's got 42 wins and only lost twice and both losses were essentially to the same type of very crafty, tricky, veteran type boxers (B-Hop and Winky), who just simply were smarter than him and had a better gameplan. Then other people are saying that he won't have any power at 170, but he's got a big frame and he was still knocking people out at 160. Until I see Tito in the RJJ fight, I'm not so sure he's washed up just yet. Who knows? Maybe he can start a little career revival for a year or two if he wins.

Let's look at Tito's wins at middleweight:

William Joppy: the guy was white-washed by Jermain Taylor on all 3 scorecards, 154lbs fighters like Spinks and Ouma did not have that happen to them. Joppy was/is an average fighter. Not a great KO win. Joppy's only KO is to Tito but tito is the only person he has fought with REAL KO power.

Hacine Cherifi: WHO ?

Ricardo Mayorga: Mayorga wasn't a proper middleweight like Tito so this win counts for virtually nothing in this argument as it was just to blown-up welters.

So Tito's KO's meant nothing at 160. So how can he KO someone at 10lbs more. We've seen how 10lbs or even less can drain fighters power which would be disastorous for Felix. Tito's latest impressive win was against 'El Feroz' in 2000. 8 YEARS AGO. He's finished IMO.

because he is.

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

I was thinking about the RJJ-Tito fight and generally the public is viewing it as two washed up fighters fighting for a paycheck. But then I started thinking, Tito isn't washed up. Honestly, the guy is about to turn 35, so he's not really all that old like RJJ, Tarver, B-Hop and some of these other dinosaurs. He's got 42 wins and only lost twice and both losses were essentially to the same type of very crafty, tricky, veteran type boxers (B-Hop and Winky), who just simply were smarter than him and had a better gameplan. Then other people are saying that he won't have any power at 170, but he's got a big frame and he was still knocking people out at 160. Until I see Tito in the RJJ fight, I'm not so sure he's washed up just yet. Who knows? Maybe he can start a little career revival for a year or two if he wins.

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I'm one of the biggest Trinidad supporters on this forum and I still can see where they are coming from when they say washed up. Basically they are using the term loosly as is often done when an elite fighter is no longer elite (despite the fact that they could probably still beat damn near anybody bellow class A).

The real problem with Tito is that he has been inactive for over 2 years and has only fough twice in over 5.

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

Let's look at Tito's wins at middleweight:

William Joppy: the guy was white-washed by Jermain Taylor on all 3 scorecards, 154lbs fighters like Spinks and Ouma did not have that happen to them. Joppy was/is an average fighter. Not a great KO win. Joppy's only KO is to Tito but tito is the only person he has fought with REAL KO power.

Hacine Cherifi: WHO ?

Ricardo Mayorga: Mayorga wasn't a proper middleweight like Tito so this win counts for virtually nothing in this argument as it was just to blown-up welters.

So Tito's KO's meant nothing at 160. So how can he KO someone at 10lbs more. We've seen how 10lbs or even less can drain fighters power which would be disastorous for Felix. Tito's latest impressive win was against 'El Feroz' in 2000. 8 YEARS AGO. He's finished IMO.

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Joppy was an established Middleweight champion who, with the exception of a later avenged loss to JCG, had held a title for just as long as Hopkins had at the time.

Cherifi, limited as he was, was a very tough fighter who had already fought at SMW.

I agree that Mayorga is a blown up Welter but he still had never even been hurt before that fight.

Trinidad could be a force at 154 if he could make it...Sure at 160 he would get wins but IMO the bigger guys especially the punchers would be too much for him,,,That has been proven already and at a time Trinidad was more active....TBH Tito hasn't the heart to fight anymore....in both losses he retired afterward....I don't care how bifg of a fan you are...that says unless he is winning he is not fighting...gotta deal with the loss as much as the win...

And I will save some typing for the fans here who like to get their panties in a wad when speaking about their favorite fighter..(you all know who you are)...

He had accomp[lished so much already he deserved some time off....he was beaten by a natural MW....why should he take risk he is elite and should be able to fight only elite fighters...He has nothing to prove...he wanted to rest up for a comeback...he can walk on water...how dare you say anything negetive he is going to Father my child as soon as I become the first male to ever concieve...Trinidad could have KO'd Goliath if he was around in the biblical times....F*** you Daxx....You don't know what your talking about Trinidad is really a secret robot made by the goverment and when he loses he goes back to the lab and they make adjustments until he is a perfect fighting machine......

Or any of the other half assed excuses that will come out

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

I was thinking about the RJJ-Tito fight and generally the public is viewing it as two washed up fighters fighting for a paycheck. But then I started thinking, Tito isn't washed up. Honestly, the guy is about to turn 35, so he's not really all that old like RJJ, Tarver, B-Hop and some of these other dinosaurs. He's got 42 wins and only lost twice and both losses were essentially to the same type of very crafty, tricky, veteran type boxers (B-Hop and Winky), who just simply were smarter than him and had a better gameplan. Then other people are saying that he won't have any power at 170, but he's got a big frame and he was still knocking people out at 160. Until I see Tito in the RJJ fight, I'm not so sure he's washed up just yet. Who knows? Maybe he can start a little career revival for a year or two if he wins.

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I'm one of the biggest Trinidad supporters on this forum and I still can see where they are coming from when they say washed up. Basically they are using the term loosly as is often done when an elite fighter is no longer elite (despite the fact that they could probably still beat damn near anybody bellow class A).

The real problem with Tito is that he has been inactive for over 2 years and has only fough twice in over 5.

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

Let's look at Tito's wins at middleweight:

William Joppy: the guy was white-washed by Jermain Taylor on all 3 scorecards, 154lbs fighters like Spinks and Ouma did not have that happen to them. Joppy was/is an average fighter. Not a great KO win. Joppy's only KO is to Tito but tito is the only person he has fought with REAL KO power.

Hacine Cherifi: WHO ?

Ricardo Mayorga: Mayorga wasn't a proper middleweight like Tito so this win counts for virtually nothing in this argument as it was just to blown-up welters.

So Tito's KO's meant nothing at 160. So how can he KO someone at 10lbs more. We've seen how 10lbs or even less can drain fighters power which would be disastorous for Felix. Tito's latest impressive win was against 'El Feroz' in 2000. 8 YEARS AGO. He's finished IMO.

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Joppy was an established Middleweight champion who, with the exception of a later avenged loss to JCG, had held a title for just as long as Hopkins had at the time.

Cherifi, limited as he was, was a very tough fighter who had already fought at SMW.

I agree that Mayorga is a blown up Welter but he still had never even been hurt before that fight.

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But Joppy is not world-class, a win over him is not a big deal IMO. I don't belive that win proved anything

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

I was thinking about the RJJ-Tito fight and generally the public is viewing it as two washed up fighters fighting for a paycheck. But then I started thinking, Tito isn't washed up. Honestly, the guy is about to turn 35, so he's not really all that old like RJJ, Tarver, B-Hop and some of these other dinosaurs. He's got 42 wins and only lost twice and both losses were essentially to the same type of very crafty, tricky, veteran type boxers (B-Hop and Winky), who just simply were smarter than him and had a better gameplan. Then other people are saying that he won't have any power at 170, but he's got a big frame and he was still knocking people out at 160. Until I see Tito in the RJJ fight, I'm not so sure he's washed up just yet. Who knows? Maybe he can start a little career revival for a year or two if he wins.

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I'm one of the biggest Trinidad supporters on this forum and I still can see where they are coming from when they say washed up. Basically they are using the term loosly as is often done when an elite fighter is no longer elite (despite the fact that they could probably still beat damn near anybody bellow class A).

The real problem with Tito is that he has been inactive for over 2 years and has only fough twice in over 5.

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

Let's look at Tito's wins at middleweight:

William Joppy: the guy was white-washed by Jermain Taylor on all 3 scorecards, 154lbs fighters like Spinks and Ouma did not have that happen to them. Joppy was/is an average fighter. Not a great KO win. Joppy's only KO is to Tito but tito is the only person he has fought with REAL KO power.

Hacine Cherifi: WHO ?

Ricardo Mayorga: Mayorga wasn't a proper middleweight like Tito so this win counts for virtually nothing in this argument as it was just to blown-up welters.

So Tito's KO's meant nothing at 160. So how can he KO someone at 10lbs more. We've seen how 10lbs or even less can drain fighters power which would be disastorous for Felix. Tito's latest impressive win was against 'El Feroz' in 2000. 8 YEARS AGO. He's finished IMO.

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Joppy was an established Middleweight champion who, with the exception of a later avenged loss to JCG, had held a title for just as long as Hopkins had at the time.

Cherifi, limited as he was, was a very tough fighter who had already fought at SMW.

I agree that Mayorga is a blown up Welter but he still had never even been hurt before that fight.

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But Joppy is not world-class, a win over him is not a big deal IMO. I don't belive that win proved anything

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If it proved anything, it proved that Tito had power at 160, which is precisely what you are trying to say it did not prove.

Any great fighter can knock some one out they can hit freely, which Tito could on Joppy because of the latters lesser ability. Tito is not a big hitter at 160.

1 fight in 2002
1 fight in 2004
1 fight in 2005

If he isn't washed up then tell me what he is?
He's certainly not in his prime?

Duran was washed up when he fought Iran but Duran showed he still had one more in him.
(By any means Am I comparing the matchups Duran-Iran just popped in my head)

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

Any great fighter can knock some one out they can hit freely, which Tito could on Joppy because of the latters lesser ability. Tito is not a big hitter at 160.

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I could name a dozen non-world calss fighters that Jones did not KO despite the fact he was hitting them freely. I don't hear many people saying Jones had no power at 175.

If anything, Tito will have enough power to get Jones's respect. He is not washed up or shot, and if he is than he is no more so than Jones is.

The only big difference is the inactivity. This will hurt Tito a lot as it will mean that he will most likely be giving away many of the early rounds while he gets rid of some major ring rust. Also as Daxx_Kahn said, we still don't know how much of Tito's hart is really into this as he showed in his last fight that he could be dishartened if the fight is not going his way.

If Jones comes into the fight aggressive then it will be a problem for Tito. It may be that while he shakes the rust and Jones kickes up the high gear he might fall badly behind and get discuraged like he did against Wright. However, I would bet that Jones is all talk and won't go after Tito. I would bet that half way through the fight will still be within reach and if Tito's stamina is still half way as good as it use to be than he has a real good chance of taking over late in the fight as Jones has been lacking in the stamina department lately.

But there are a lot of IFs there.

LOL was looking up web definitions on the term washed-up. Guess I had nothing else to do LOL.

Here are the words that came up and how they apply to Tito.

exhousted => No
lacking in energy => No
at the end of ones resources => yes or close to it
to have come to nothing => No
Unsuccesful => Recently, yes. Currently, we will see come fight night.
finished => Not yet established, hence the debate.
defeated => see unsuccesful
ruined => certanly not
done for => see finished

In conclusion, though he does meet some criteria of being defined as washed-up, there is not sufficiant information to establish it without a doubt ;D

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

Any great fighter can knock some one out they can hit freely, which Tito could on Joppy because of the latters lesser ability. Tito is not a big hitter at 160.

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I could name a dozen non-world calss fighters that Jones did not KO despite the fact he was hitting them freely. I don't hear many people saying Jones had no power at 175.

If anything, Tito will have enough power to get Jones's respect. He is not washed up or shot, and if he is than he is no more so than Jones is.

The only big difference is the inactivity. This will hurt Tito a lot as it will mean that he will most likely be giving away many of the early rounds while he gets rid of some major ring rust. Also as Daxx_Kahn said, we still don't know how much of Tito's hart is really into this as he showed in his last fight that he could be dishartened if the fight is not going his way.

If Jones comes into the fight aggressive then it will be a problem for Tito. It may be that while he shakes the rust and Jones kickes up the high gear he might fall badly behind and get discuraged like he did against Wright. However, I would bet that Jones is all talk and won't go after Tito. I would bet that half way through the fight will still be within reach and if Tito's stamina is still half way as good as it use to be than he has a real good chance of taking over late in the fight as Jones has been lacking in the stamina department lately.

But there are a lot of IFs there.

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Some of that could be down to the fact that he has openly admitted to carrying some fighters

I was a huge Tito fan from the start, I won lots of money when he decisioned ODLH, but he is done. He is a 154 lb fighter who is too lazy to try to make weight. He's moving up to fight Roy at 170? This is probably the best possible weight for RJJ right now. Trinidad will get KOed by a guy who really is about 20-25 lbs bigger if they were both in their best fighting shape. He took a suckers bet because he doesn't want to make weight. I'm not sure he can hurt Jones at that weight either. When are these guys going to learn and start fighting in their own weight classes.

When I saw this fight signed it was a mix feeling for me because Tito was and will always be one of my biggest idols. You can not imagine the emotions that he created in the island in each of his fights and how all people in Puerto Rico got together. However, I have to admit that this will be a very difficult for Tito. I am not sure how effective he will be at 170. I always thought Tito's that optimal weight was 154. The first thing I thought was that he was crazy because of leaving his retirement and go back to face RJJ who had fought at HW (and won a title). Deep inside I preferred that he remained retired, but now that he is back I will be watching the fight with a lot of beers to calm my nerves and hoping that he can win this one, crossing my fingers for that left hook to land in RJJ chin. But, I see it very difficult.

However, for those who think Tito is lazy, he started to train in June (~ 2 months before the fight was confirmed). I do not have any doubt that he has been training very hard and that Tito will be in very good physical conditions, not just presenting fat, get his pay check to go home. I think he can give a good show. And, Tito is not a night club, alcoholic person. But I still see the weight factor as a major obstacle, and not forgeting that a well prepared RJJ can still show a lot of speed and abilities.

Among boxing fans it is a commonly held belief that aggresive/explosive pressure fighters age quickly and have short careers.
Felix Trinidad fits neatly into this category and in fact ranks high upon the list of fighters of this calibre.
However, the hypothesis seemed to be confirmed in the Wright fight as Trinidad's explosive nature seemed to be dampened greatly. Furthermore, he was not possessed of the boxing skill or style to adapt and box in an attempt to vanquish Wright.

Unfortunately it does seem Trinidad is washed up and be under no illusion, he will never be a force again.

because hes ancient, i know hes just turning 35 but to tell you the truth the last proper fight i can remember tito being in was against delahoya and i was about 10 years old ? (am 22 now)

Well they may be old, there may be no titles on the line, it may have little significance in terms of boxing's welfare, but it still may serve to give us an entertaining fight.

Neither guy will come back on the scene like they once were but they may serve their new purpose by giving one last great performance and giving us a great fight. It happened in the fifties all the time, guys fought for pride and the fans more than money and glory, why not nowadays too?

I see difficulties for him because he is fighting at a higher weight class than he has fought and his optimum weight class was 154/147. 170 is way too high,combined with the layoff will be too much. Look,even if he wins this fight,does anyone really think he is going to beat Arthur Abraham/Pavlik etc(presuming he drops to 160 after the fight,if he can even make 160¬?

I love Tito but I don't want to see him coming back full time.

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

I was thinking about the RJJ-Tito fight and generally the public is viewing it as two washed up fighters fighting for a paycheck. But then I started thinking, Tito isn't washed up. Honestly, the guy is about to turn 35, so he's not really all that old like RJJ, Tarver, B-Hop and some of these other dinosaurs. He's got 42 wins and only lost twice and both losses were essentially to the same type of very crafty, tricky, veteran type boxers (B-Hop and Winky), who just simply were smarter than him and had a better gameplan. Then other people are saying that he won't have any power at 170, but he's got a big frame and he was still knocking people out at 160. Until I see Tito in the RJJ fight, I'm not so sure he's washed up just yet. Who knows? Maybe he can start a little career revival for a year or two if he wins.

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Well 1st off all the long lay offs are not going to do Tito any good. I don't care who you are, your not going to be nowhere near your best with all the long lay offs. Tito is now at the age when you start going down hill sorry to sound like a smart a** here but i think its a no brainer.

4 fights in 6 years, 34 years old will be 35 coming into this fight, fighting at a weight class Tito hasn't fought at before, got dominated in his last fight which will be not do Tito's confidence any good, = Past his prime.

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Originally Posted by Sugar_shaw

Let's look at Tito's wins at middleweight:

William Joppy: the guy was white-washed by Jermain Taylor on all 3 scorecards, 154lbs fighters like Spinks and Ouma did not have that happen to them. Joppy was/is an average fighter. Not a great KO win. Joppy's only KO is to Tito but tito is the only person he has fought with REAL KO power.

Hacine Cherifi: WHO ?

Ricardo Mayorga: Mayorga wasn't a proper middleweight like Tito so this win counts for virtually nothing in this argument as it was just to blown-up welters.

So Tito's KO's meant nothing at 160. So how can he KO someone at 10lbs more. We've seen how 10lbs or even less can drain fighters power which would be disastorous for Felix. Tito's latest impressive win was against 'El Feroz' in 2000. 8 YEARS AGO. He's finished IMO.

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You gotta at least give him credit for the Joppy win. Tito was the only guy to stop him, ever, and Joppy beat an undefeated, prime Howard Eastman in next bout after the loss. By the time Taylor shut him out, Joppy was 3 years older, and he been through tough fights with Tito (a KO), Eastman (tough MD), and Hopkins. And at that time, Taylor was still a KO puncher - KO'd his previous 6 opponents, but he couldn't stop a much older, worn version of Joppy. When Tito fought Joppy, Joppy was the 3rd best MW in the world, behind Tito and B-Hop, and then Joppy beat Eastman in his next fight, Eastman was probably the 4th best MW at the time. How can you discount that? The Joppy KO is case and point that Tito had his power at 160.

That being said, I think Tito is finished from inactivity, but I bet he can still punch, and don't forget, Jones has a suspect beard. Jones has been more active, but this version of Roy Jones is a shadow his former self. So, yeah, I think Tito can KO Jones, lights out. I just don't think he's going to get the chance to do it unless Roy fights a very stupid fight (a possibility) or underestimates Tito's power. Jones should be able to move, rip of some counters, move, and move some more, but if Jones tries one of his chicken-dance moves, he could end up tasting canvas.

....watch Tito's fight vs Winky Wright and tell me he's not done

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....watch Tito's fight vs Winky Wright and tell me he's not done

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That wasn't just because Tito was done, though I agree he was certainly past his best. It was also because when Tito is matched up bad, he looks very bad...Hopkins, Wright, and 9 rounds vs Oscar. He might not have been in his prime, but Winky would done the same thing to Tito, even in Tito's prime. It would have been closer, 117-111 maybe instead of a shut out.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....watch Tito's fight vs Winky Wright and tell me he's not done

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Agreed.

He was done then (not to mention that he was fighting too high out of his weight class) years ago.

Now he's fighting Roy Jones Jr. at a much higher weight class.

Tito was shot then, but he's even more shot now. And last I saw of Roy, he looked pretty damn good.
The Puerto Ricans aren't swaying my decision in the least. In fact, I would like for ALL of the Trinidad supporters to go put their money on him since you guys think he's gonna win so that I will make even more money when I put my intelligent money on Jones and the under (even if the under is like 6 rounds)