Why Does Everyone Say Diosbelys Hurtado Was Dominating Pernell Whitaker ??

I have watched this fight at least 6 times and i can never understand why people think Whitaker was being dominated. He was knocked down twice but they were flash knockdowns and apart from that it was competitive all the way, I had it very close on my scorecard i think i had Hurtado ahead by only 1 point. The finish was brutal what a left hand from Whitaker then he landed about another 10 left hands and Hurtado almost fell out of the ring, but whats your thoughts on this fight ??

This was an equally ugly fight to a degree.Sweet Pea got bounced in the first 10 seconds or so.Hurtado was a very awkward and rangy guy with deceptive pop...Not big power but deceptive pop Imo.They cancelled each other out with Point deductions but Whitaker needed rally .I was shocked when he went he put those lefts on him,etc.etc.etc.. It was nip and tuck in my opinion.Just not used to seeing Whitaker raked over by virtual unknown.

it was just once of those bad styles for Pernell , Hurtado was fast and could dig , so he caught Pernell and made it awkward for him , but he was far from dominating Sweetpea .
in his prime you couldn't hit Pernell with a bag of gravel.

I had Hurtado winning the fight. But it was no domination. I think Whitaker took Hurtado a little lightly. And was probably feeling the pressure with De La Hoya ringside. But he pulled it out. And that's all that matters

Anyone got any details on the Mayorga vs. Hurtado fight? I know it was like a NC due to cuts. But I'd imagine Mayorga was beatin on him or bullin him round the ring.

Throughout his entire career Whitakker proved to be "the wrong style" for each opponent he faced. He was an awkward fighter who frustrated the opponent.
However, in this matchup Pernell found a style which had a mirror effect. It frustrated him and gave him a real headache. The finish illustrated that Pernell was not only a slick boxer, he was also a guy who craved victories and could bang more than people expected.

Yeah this is one I saw after the fact and I thought people were making a bit much out of how well Hurtado was doing too.

Well I believe it also has to do with the fact that not many did well against Whitakker, he made guys look bad. When one guy did well it was a shock

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I've only ever seen clips of Toney-Nunn myself so I can't really pass judgement.

As for the Zab fight, well one round hardly qualifies as a domination and I'd hardly call boxing well on the back foot dominant either.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I've seen the fight and thought Nunn was clearly ahead over the first 7 rounds or so. He started to tire a couple rounds before Toney caught up with him so it wasn't a shock when he went, but he was certainly leading the fight imo.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I totally agree about the Toney vs Nunn fight, Nunn was having the best of it in the early going. Then Toney come on strong in the later rounds, and coming into the 11th it was very close i think i had Nunn only ahead by 1 point. You could see that Nunn was badly fading so Toney KO Nunn wasn't a big surprise. Fantastic boxing from Toney.

As for Tszyu vs Judah i really can never understand where all this talk of Judah *dominating* up until the stoppage comes from. Judah was on his way to losing the 2nd round in a big way.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I've seen the fight and thought Nunn was clearly ahead over the first 7 rounds or so. He started to tire a couple rounds before Toney caught up with him so it wasn't a shock when he went, but he was certainly leading the fight imo.

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I thought Toney clearly won 8, 9, 10, and was winning 11 before he caught him and I thought Toney won seven too so assuming he didn't KO Nunn in the 11th I would have had Nunn only up by a round going into the 12th. Two at most depending on the seventh. Not so much that I question people who think Nunn was winning, its just the idea that Nunn was dominating the entire fight is silly.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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Toney was about a 20-1 underdog and as much as a did not care for Nunn he really boxed his ass of vs.Toney.He was down by as much as 8 points by judges.It really was a great turn around but another thing ive heard alot is that It was 1 punch and over.He actually caught "second to Toney-Nunn" with numerous rights in the 10th and you could feel it coming.In the 11th Nunn got dropped twice and it was done.He definatley needed a come from behind Ko or 3 or 4 KD's......some where Barkley was laughing lol.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I've seen the fight and thought Nunn was clearly ahead over the first 7 rounds or so. He started to tire a couple rounds before Toney caught up with him so it wasn't a shock when he went, but he was certainly leading the fight imo.

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I thought Toney clearly won 8, 9, 10, and was winning 11 before he caught him and I thought Toney won seven too so assuming he didn't KO Nunn in the 11th I would have had Nunn only up by a round going into the 12th. Two at most depending on the seventh. Not so much that I question people who think Nunn was winning, its just the idea that Nunn was dominating the entire fight is silly.

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This will sound weird but John Thaxton's recent fight with Dave Stewert reminded me of Nunn Toney. Not that you can in way compare the talent levels but rather that Thaxton looked sloppy early and was clearly getting outboxed by Stewert, but he got stronger as the fight went on, storming the last rounds and then knocking him out in the 12th.

The whole way through watching it I was thinking of Toney against Nunn.

Toney, in fairness to him, was a great boxer. My problem with him arises when I consider that he Ko'd guys in heavier divisions late.

How does a guy move up in weight and have more stamina and power late on than the natural guys? :-\
No points for the supposed answer :(

Hurtado's style was awkward, but that wasn't the big reason why Pernell struggled. The reason why he was struggling was because he showed up completely out-of-shape and unmotivated.

After Pernell beat McGirt the second time, he stopped training seriously and showed up out of shape for just about all of his fights. He didn't take a fight really seriously again until the DLH fight.

I did think Hurtado was beating Pea pretty convincingly until that last round,but then again I had De La Hoya beating him easily as well.

I think people exaggerate this also because like you mentioned ICB the knockdowns... Tho you claim them to be flash knockdowns the fact is name another fighter who dropped Pernell twice in 1 fuight prior to that fight?

So add that plus the fact that he was wining the fight and you've got why people claim he was dominating the fight.


As for Nunn-Toney, I had Nunn well ahead in the fight I think by 3 rounds maybe 2. I haven't seen it in a while but I do remember Nunn being ahead comfortably.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Hurtado's style was awkward, but that wasn't the big reason why Pernell struggled. The reason why he was struggling was because he showed up completely out-of-shape and unmotivated.

After Pernell beat McGirt the second time, he stopped training seriously and showed up out of shape for just about all of his fights. He didn't take a fight really seriously again until the DLH fight.

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Funny enough though in the Interview Whitaker said he trained very hard for Hurtado.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I think people exaggerate this also because like you mentioned ICB the knockdowns... Tho you claim them to be flash knockdowns the fact is name another fighter who dropped Pernell twice in 1 fuight prior to that fight?

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I agree Mick although i think when Roger Mayweather dropped Whitaker, he had Whitaker in a lot more trouble than Hurtado did with both of his knockdowns combined. Hurtado even dropped Tszyu twice in a shootout, funny enough Hurtado is not considered a hard puncher but he floors two fighters like Tszyu, Whitaker. Who both have solid chins i think its because Hurtado is a fast puncher that he catches you by surprise and you don't see the punches coming, and like the old saying goes the worst punches are the ones you don't see coming.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I've seen the whole fight, and Nunn was clearly ahead by a good margin before being stopped. I dunno about dominating, cus I don't think he was really hurting Toney, but he was winning for sure. Outboxing Toney and what not.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

the myth I find to be the funniest is that Michael Nunn was destroying Toney till he got lucky in the 11th round.

You can always tell who's never seen the fight. I remember Starr-not around much anymore-claiming that Nunn was dominating the fight till the very end.

To a lesser extent, Judah's "dominance" of Kostya till Tsyzu landed the right is overdone. Zab had a good first and did absolutely nothing in the second. Tsyzu was winning that round anyway even though he hadn't landed much of anything big.

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I've seen the whole fight, and Nunn was clearly ahead by a good margin before being stopped. I dunno about dominating, cus I don't think he was really hurting Toney, but he was winning for sure. Outboxing Toney and what not.

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You don't think Toney had won the last three or four rounds before the 11th?

I agree he was winning but some people act like Toney was getting shutout or something which always seemed odd to me.

This thread Is great,This weekend I've got one fight I'm going to watch again and another to watch for the first time, nice one :)

Hurtado was clearly winning the fight. Whitaker knew this and started with the low blows, hitting behind the neck, etc.

I'm sorry but this is the truth about that fight. Watch the beginning of the last round, Whitaker hits Hurtado with a low blow that weakens him but the referee didn't see it and Hurtado didn't complain but if you take a close look, you'll see that it immediately affects him.

and then at the end of the round the referee didn't stop the fight when Whitaker was beating Hurtado and he wasn't even responding. That was a bad referee, even though he was the son of another famous referee.

To me....Whitaker lost that fight!!

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Originally Posted by grupoorishas

Hurtado was clearly winning the fight. Whitaker knew this and started with the low blows, hitting behind the neck, etc.

I'm sorry but this is the truth about that fight. Watch the beginning of the last round, Whitaker hits Hurtado with a low blow that weakens him but the referee didn't see it and Hurtado didn't complain but if you take a close look, you'll see that it immediately affects him.

and then at the end of the round the referee didn't stop the fight when Whitaker was beating Hurtado and he wasn't even responding. That was a bad referee, even though he was the son of another famous referee.

To me....Whitaker lost that fight!!

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And Hurtado wasn't dirty ?? didn't he have two points deducted for fouls ?? sorry but thats crap Hurtado wasn't clearly winning anything it was close fight which i personally had even if i remember right going into 11th. and how can you say Whitaker lost the fight ?? when he KO'ed Hurtado with about 10 unanswered straight lefts ??

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by grupoorishas

Hurtado was clearly winning the fight. Whitaker knew this and started with the low blows, hitting behind the neck, etc.

I'm sorry but this is the truth about that fight. Watch the beginning of the last round, Whitaker hits Hurtado with a low blow that weakens him but the referee didn't see it and Hurtado didn't complain but if you take a close look, you'll see that it immediately affects him.

and then at the end of the round the referee didn't stop the fight when Whitaker was beating Hurtado and he wasn't even responding. That was a bad referee, even though he was the son of another famous referee.

To me....Whitaker lost that fight!!

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And Hurtado wasn't dirty ?? didn't he have two points deducted for fouls ?? sorry but thats crap Hurtado wasn't clearly winning anything it was close fight which i personally had even if i remember right going into 11th. and how can you say Whitaker lost the fight ?? when he KO'ed Hurtado with about 10 unanswered straight lefts ??

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Cuz the ref should have counted really really super fast when Whittaker got droppen early, giving Hurtado the win.

Hurtado was a good fighter without being great, he was good that night against Whitaker and nearly pulled off the win. It was unfortunate for Hurtado that he encountered ATG's in Whitaker and Tszyu that stood in his way of achieving greatness himself. Close but no cigar!