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Firstly its a disgrace JMM never got his shot at Naz , he was mandatory for like years.
Was Hamed scared of JMM ?
and if they fought who would have won , my guess is JMM would have schooled Hamed , but probabley had the POWER to score a late stoppage win . TKO 11
Wot are your guys opinions ????
Fatty Fatty Big Tits fell from grace because his reputation for power couldn't help him when all the chips were down. He would've knocked down Marquez three times in the first round and then hung on for a close draw.
Fatty fatty big tits hahhahaa.
Marquez wasnt tested on all levels back then,he had great skills when he had his own way with people.
He wasnt tested out for a war like Barrera and Moralles were,so there were some unanswered questions .
So there eventually was Pac who tested him fully as he was caught cold;he showed he has heart a chin and better still skills that came out automatically when the cards were down which carried him through until he got his legs back.Thats a warrior built for war in my book. He will come out with a sweat on this time.
With all that in mind I recon he would of worn any of them down at the height of his time.
He would of schooled all commers in those days in my book.
Naz of 95-97 who used good boxing aswell as power would have ko'd Marquez early Naz of 98 onwards wins late stoppage or messy UD12.
If i remember correctly JMM had a shot at NAZ but turned it down at the time. He was offered the shot too soon after coming off of a fight. I forget who his oponent was at the time, but Naz never ducked him.
That is correct Naz did offer Marquez a fight but Marquez turned it down. Marquez was the number 1 contender for about 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsexy
I have no doubt that both Marquez and Morales would have defeated Hamed, if they had gotten the shot instead of Barrera.
That's not a knock on Naz, it's just acknowledgement that he wasn't on the level of the best Mexican featherweights.
Is it that time of year again where we discuss this fight?
JMM was the mandatory a fight was offered to Naz he turned it down. Years later in 1999 after JMM lost to Norwood Naz in return offered a fight. JMM in return turned it down after the fact and now that he saw JMM loose.
Get the facts straight people.... :)
I'm with you on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
What people must realize is that Marquez wasn't well known and it was a high risk/low reward fight for Naseem. Now im not trying to defend Naseem Hamed because i don't like him. But i can understand Naseem for not wanting to take the fight, if the fight did happen i think Marquez would have beaten him, because style makes fights and Marquez's counter punching style would be all wrong for Naseem Hamed.
To be fair to Marquez he had a few good wins before the Norwood fight, Agapito Sanchez, Julian Wheeler. But i think Marquez was very lucky in the Wheeler fight, Wheeler was ahead in the fight going into final round and the ref DQ Wheeler for holding and Marquez was awarded the TKO win which was quite bizarre.
Yes it is there are new people here who wish to vent their Naztyness onto us.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
So when Marquez was the mandatory with the boring rep Naz turned him down to pursue the other belt holders in the division.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
But Naz said he'd give Marquez a chance later on, if he proved himself. Marquez failed. But Naz was still generous enough to offer Marquez a shot.
Marquez bottled it.
Is that right?
You sir are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
JMM won the WBO NABO title in 1997 while Naz was the WBO champ since 1995.
In 1998-99 JMM was #1 challenger for the title a fight was offered and turned down by Naz.
Another bigger man without caring said I'll give JMM a shot at a title JMM fought for the WBA title and lost.
Once Naz saw that JMM lost and felt that was his opppourtunity to try and beat JMM, Naz made the offer.
So yes your right Naz didn't want none of JMM up until he saw JMM loose and Naz avoided JMM for the better part of 2 yrs.
Thank you for clarifying that to us.
You're welcome.
After Marquez so miserably failed against Norwood he must of believed he'd never beat a fighter of Naz's high calibre.
What other reason could there possibly be for Marquez turning down Naz's generous offer?
I see what your getting at Fenster and i do agree. Marquez was coming off a very ugly fight with Norwood. And Naseem was the top man at Featherweight so why would Marquez turn the offer down ?? i know Naseem did turn down Marquez's offer before that and yes Naz, did only offer Marquez the fight when he see Marquez didn't impress against Norwood. But if i was Marquez i would of taken that offer with both hands and i wouldn't of let go that was a big chance at super stardom for Marquez. And i can't see why he would turn it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Whatever peanuts he was making back then Naz's peanuts offered would have been huge in comparision.
There can be only one reason Marquez turned down a fight with Naz - He didn't fancy the fight.
Is it not right?
Marquez had a pulse. This right there automatically disqualified him from fighting Hamed. When MAB actually walked into the ring, Hamed was in shock, he was heard saying, "What is going on here?, usually my opponent is wheeled into the ring on a gurney, this guy might be able to even fight back, I don't like this." Hamed didn't fight very good fighters. There were several guys who could've schooled him as MAB did back then, Marquez was one of them.
So explain why Marquez POINT-BLANK REFUSED to fight Naz when offered the chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Was there any excuse made public, I cant remember? Fighters dont usually just say no and chicken out with out a call, after all they are fighters.
I can't remember exactly because i was young at the time. But i for certain remember Naz offering Marquez a fight and Marquez turning it down. I don't know what his excuse was for turning down the fight. But i find it a little strange that he offered Naz a fight and Naz turned it down. Then after Marquez looks unimpressive in an ugly fight with Norwood. Naz then offers him a fight but then Marquez turns it down and fights against mostly unknown opponents for the next 2 years. I can't understand why he wouldn't take it that was his chance at super stardom, and i didn't hear Marquez saying he had any injuries so that puzzles me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Andre,Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
JMM in a press conference held in Mexico weeks after his loss to Norwood said he needed to go back to the drawing board and get his mind back together he felt let down by himself he said the Norwood fight was there for the taking and he let it go. When Naz made the offer JMM went on publicly and said he didn't need Naz or his title that he wasn't gonna be around until Naz felt like fighting him and he (JMM) would fend for himself and create his own legacy without fighting him. He also said I was his #1 challenger for years and he turned me down. I don't need him now I'll move on with my career.
This is from a article printed on 'El Sol De Mexico' newspaper from Mexico City.
Cool i remember now ,I had forgot that :0 thanks.
What were we talking about again?
We were talking about the time Fantana challenged Mad_Dog for the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Maybe the contract was bullshit, maybe he was paying him back for POINT BLANK DUCKING him earlier. No way in hell was Marquez scared of that total fraud Naseem Hamed. Hamed was a joke and a clown. I doubt if most of the Mexican featherweights took him very seriously. Although he did manage to decision a respected journeyman Mexican name Ceasar Soto ( a strange fight if I remember, where Hamed resorted to a series of knees to beat his opponent, ref should have DQed him.), I thought I remember a quote from one of Barrera's camp that there are "20 Mexican featherweights tougher than Hamed" At the time I agreed with that quote and still do. Barerra exposed Hamed and that fight wasn't as close as the score cards suggested. Some schmuck gave me 5-2 in that fight and it was the easiest and surest $250 bucks I have ever made in my life. Vegas had the odds closer although I'm sure the Books in the UK had Hamed a huge favorite or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Never thought much of Kevin Kelley and Wayne McCullough was not much better, but this guy, Hamed, is another protected fighter who fought club fighters and talked mad smack and got beat down against a good fighter.
Man the key to being a rich and famous fighter is to fight bums. Just fight no names and talk a big game in knocking out nobodies and eventually you'll be 30-0. You can duck the whole of Mexico and make your fans believe you are actually one of the top guys in the World at your weight. Yeah, maybe someday you'll have to answer the bell against 1 real fighter, but then you can retire a rich man and still pretend you were a great fighter after getting your arse whooped. I guess Hamed has a lot of company in taking this rout to "greatness" though. Hamed's career choices contained more ducks than the whole Country of Canada. Should I really start listing the fighters that Princess Naseem Hamed Ducked? My keyboard might wear out.
You can list all the guys Naz ducked after answering what possible reason could there be for Marquez to turndown a fight with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
Naz didn't need Marquez.
So "paying him back" for not fighting him earlier is a stupid reason, in it like?
I can understand if Marquez was disappointed about his fight with Norwood. But it still doesn't make sense why he would not take a big chance like that against the top name in the division. And fight for another 2 years against mostly unknown opponent's. And also Marquez was offered a rematch with Pacquiao, but he fights Chris John in his backyard for 35k then gets robbed. I just think Marquez's team or Marquez himself made a few bad choices in his career.
I hate Naseem but to say he fought all bums is ridiculous he won the WBO, WBC, titles from good opponents. Naz also fought Barrera who was on a good winning steak and his only loss in years was to Erik Morales who was undefeated and one of the top P4P fighters, so he if he was *Ducking* all the top Mexican fighters why would he have fought Barrera ?? who was one of the best Mexican fighters at that time. The fact is Marquez had beaten only a few goodish names like Agapito Sanchez, Julian Wheeler, when he offered Naseem a fight so it was High Risk/Low Reward fight. And you talk about Soto vs Naz controversy why don't you see Marquez vs Wheeler. That was even more controversial because Marquez was losing the fight coming into the last round and got a gift when the ref DQ Wheeler, and strangely awarded Marquez TKO victory. Marquez is one of my favorite fighters and yes he was the Number 1 contender but you have to realize Marquez wasn't really a known name at that time and like i said earlier it was a High Risk/Low Reward fight for Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
Vazquez was stripped of the WBA title just before he fought Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
*Just realised you edited out the IBF title from your post.
Vazquez,
Was he the one that originally beat the Hungarian koko and retired him back in those days?
.Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
Hamed fought Barrera cuz Barrera was moving up in weight. And after the Morales fight Hamed thought Barrera would stand toe to toe with him. Which is something Hamed wanted. He wanted to score an impressive knock out over the smaller Barrera. Hamed figured wrong and got embarrassed instead. As for the Marquez-Wheeler fight, have your ever even seen the fight? From what I remember Wheeler was doing a lot of holding. And was warned several times. In the last round he was hurt and on the verge of being knocked out. When he again started holding and refused to let go. And in the process lost the fight. I saw no problem with the decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
OK, Hamed's card was weak, not sure if anyone will dispute that, but... He did fight a few good fighters albeit only one great fighter IMO in MAB. Mccullough was a decent feather and Soto was a good one. Kelley was average to good as was Wilfredo Vasquez.
He had opportunities to fight MAB before he did, also JM Marquez, Morrales, Tapia, Enrique Sanchez, Jesus Chavez, Mayweather (at 130), Ayala, Derrick Gainer, Carlos Hernandez, How about moving 4 pounds up and fighting Corrales, Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Carlso Rios, Gregario Vargas, Carlos Gerena, hell Jose Luis Castillo made 130 in the late 90s. I could go on... I just named 15 great or very good fighters who would've loved to fight Hamed and could have drawn reasonably to make it a worthwhile big fight for Hamed. Many of these guys openly lobbied to fight Hamed. I'm sure some of these fights couldn't be made for one reason or another, but just pick any 5 of these and I believe Hamed would have a card worthy of hall of fame consideration (of course he'd also have 4 or 5 more losses), some of those guys would've cut from 130 to 126 for the money and the chance to kick the Princes rear. Instead he fought the easiest possible guys with very little exception. The back flips and ring entrances will probably get him into the hall anyway, but more for being a side show than a great fighter.
Great fighters have at least a handful of great fighters on their card, Hamed has 1 and he got beat down by him. He should have at least 8 or 10 other fighters that are remembered as very good and he doesn't IMO. Maybe some of those other guys were modern day Willie Peps and I just don't know it, but this guy might be the most protected, over hyped and overrated fighter in history!
Hamed was entertaining, a guy people loved to hate. He had very good power, but almost no boxing acumen. I consider him a good to very good featherweight, but far from a great one. He made a ton of money by refusing to fight tough guys and showboating. I guess you can't blame him, he wouldn't of made much money getting his butt kicked by fighting the best fight in and fight out.
Fact is Marquez was offerd a fight after a loss to Norwood .
Thats a fact , when he was regarded as no threat ( or thought to be no threat)
and VD is correct Hamed fought MAB cos he thought he would slug it out with him , and make him look good.
fact is if you are a limbo dancer with power you will never be an all time great.
It was still a big risk and lets not forget many people thought Barrera beat Morales, and plus Barrera was considered one of the top Mexican fighters at that time. And yes i have seen Marquez vs Wheeler but it was years ago. But from what i remember i had Wheeler ahead clearly going into last round and yes Wheeler did clinch a lot. But i still think Marquez was a bit lucky considering he was on his way to losing a decision IMO. But what was strange to me is that the ref awarded Marquez a TKO victory. But im not trying to discredit Marquez he was inexperienced, and Wheeler is a tough cookie he gave most of the top fighters all they could handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
They were all Super Featherweights/Lightweights except for a few on your list, but Naseem didn't need to move up because he was the man at Featherweight, many fighters in the past have dominated 1 division and didn't move up. Most of those fights would have been a big disadvantage to Naseem, because most of those fighter's were much bigger than Naseem.Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
Like i said i never liked Naz and i was glad Barrera beat the stuffing out of him, i also think that was hilarious when Barrera slammed Naz's head into turn buckle. But i just think people are being little bit unfair to Naz and forgetting that he was the man at Featherweight and he did beat some quality fighters. I have never considered Naseem one of the greats, but i do consider him to be top 10 Featherweight.
Marquez wasn't a known name before the Norwood fight, and yes Naz did only offer Marquez a fight after seeing his ugly fight with Norwood. But he still offered him the fight and Marquez should have took it, i honestly think Marquez would have gave Naz a boxing lesson so i don't know why he didn't take the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
As for Barrera like i said to VD Barrera was still considered a major threat. And his only loss in years was a controversial decision loss to Morales in which many people thought he won. Naz still needs to be given props for taking the fight because its not like Barrera was a shot fighter or was coming off a bad loss. Barrera was coming off one of his greatest performances in one of the greatest fights of all time.
8 of the 1st 9 guys I mentioned were fighting regularly at 126 when Hamed was in his prime. Some of them went onto bigger and better things at 130 and 135, but all of them were viable opponents at 126 for Hamed. Of the rest I mentioned Hamed could go up, but I'd bet most of those guys would've cut the 4 lbs to fight Prince. I'll give him this: He knew his limitations and picked his opponents accordingly.
I dont think Marquez had the chin he'd need to beat Nas . JMM was floored heavily by Pac and Barrera plus got beaten by Chris John and Norwood . I think a peak Nas would have taken him