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Not my opinion, but the opinion of this journalist on britishboxing.net
He thinks Lennox Lewis would beat Tyson at any point in Tyson's career.
There's two parts to his article and be warned - it's a long (but interesting) read.
Anyone agree or is this just blind patriotism?
http://www.britishboxing.net/news_30...st-Part-I.html
http://www.britishboxing.net/news_30...t-Part-II.html
Tyson is overrated and underrated at the same time, he is overrated because Tyson fans think that no one could even make him breathe hard in his prime. He is underrated because Tyson detractors say he has no heart when thats not true, plus they underrate Tyson's opposition. I think that about sums it up for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad
When Tyson was in his prime (before prison) he would destroy all these tall guys with ease. I would mention their names but I don't think Tyson has been taller than anyone in his career. So imagine, Tyson having no problems with taller opponents (pretty much ANYBODY he has faced) and then have him against a guy that has proven to have a glass jaw (Lewis).
Just look at who wrote the article. A garbage site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad
To say Lewis has a glass jaw is a bit silly, Lewis took bombs off good punchers like Mason, Tucker, Mercer, Tua, Holyfield, Klitschko, Bruno. If Lewis had a glass jaw he would of lost all the fights i just mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
I take that one back, good point. Then I guess it can apply the same to Tyson when someone says "Oh, look at him. He lost against a taller guy (Lewis) so there's no way he could beat Lewis during his prime".
I think Tyson's other weakness was that he gets tied up easily on the inside. He likes a bit of space to throw his hooks, but when he is head to head with his opponent he doesn't throw many punches. Allowing his opponent to tie him up, something Holyfield done very well against Mike and it frustrated him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Lewis WOULD beat Tyson at any point in his career but Tyson was never "all hype" he was a hard worker in the ring and outside it when his head was on right and he was an exciting fighter to watch.
I think Holyfield and Bowe would beat Tyson at any point in his career but those are just my opinions.
I don't know.
People have different stages of Tysons career but realistically you can look at any premiere fighter and find a time in their career or a night where they were at their very best.
All Tyson knew was boxing and after the Spinks fight what's left?
I say it went downhill from there with Givens and everything else.
But the fact of the matter was, Tyson did everything you can in the sport of boxing by the age of 22. Which would have been fine if he knew something other then boxing but its all he knew and thats all Cus wanted him to know.
Tyson was a victim of circumstance, non business savvy and Don King. No more no less.
Tyson from when he began to 22 was awesome but after that I think he was just mentally out of boxing.
After he came out of prison he was only fighting for money and holding onto the fact that people remembered the force he was before he went there.
So Tyson became the youngest Heavyweight champ of all time and after that he had nothing left to do.
He probably would have retired after the Holyfield fight(when they were both prime) but he injured his rib and had to pull out(in which Riddick Bowe got the opportunity and the legacy) and Tyson went to jail.
But I'm so saddened by the fact that had Tyson not injured his rib and fought Holyfield then and probably been one of the greatest heavyweight trilogies of all time he could have retired win or lose the trilogy with Holyfield. Because both of them at that age would have been explosive to say the least because it was something they would both be up for.
imo the Tyson that fought Holyfield was just their for the paycheck.
Tysons own words not excuses were he was really unmotivated to fight anymore after the Spinks fight, and even more so after the Douglas fight.
But I still think that if Tyson Holyfield 1 had happened when it was supposed to. No one would ever question him.
he peaked at a young age where he knew nothing else. Sad story but thats what happened.
Tyson beat bigger guys all through his career, a pre-prison (jab & headmovement) tyson would have beat lewis easily. Lewis only beat old past their prime fighter like holyfield, tyson etc and even struggled against klitchko and got beat by a couple of nobodys ie rahman (although lucky punch).
No one can deny this - Lewis does not like to get hit, and watching some of his fights before the tyson one i can say he has no heart.
What people forget about Holyfield vs Tyson is that Holyfield was older than Tyson, and Holyfield was considered the shot fighter not Tyson. Holyfield had looked like an old man against Bowe in the 3rd and in the 1st Moorer fight. He also had bad heart problems, plus there were 42 sport writers and only 1 picked Holyfield that should tell you something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Lennox did beat a past his prime Tyson as did Holyfield but they never had any trouble with him or his power which was still there to a point.
I understand fighters maybe having more trouble with Tyson when he was younger but I just think the styles Lewis, Holyfield, and Riddick Bowe had would just prove too difficult for Tyson to beat.
Out of 10 fights with Lennox Lewis Mike might win 2, with Holyfield I don't think he would win any, and with Bowe I don't think he would win any
Ridiculous post of course i can deny it, Lewis has been hit by plenty of flush shots by big punchers and has comeback to win after being hurt. When has Tyson ever really been in any trouble and comeback to win ?? except for the 1st Ruddock fight ??Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAY
See what makes me sick is you obviously have little knowledge on Lewis and you are a typical Tyson fan who hasn't got a clue. Have you seen Lewis fights with Mason, Tucker, Briggs ?? because he showed heart in all of these fights after being hurt he come straight back and hammered his opponent.
I dont think it was holyfields / lewis's styles that tyson found too hard to beat but,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
the other way around, lewis/holyfield found it easy to deal with tyson's slowed down style, reactions and come straight at you and nothing else.
A pre-prison tyson was unbelievably quick, best head movement in the game and a superb jab, which was not there in the holyfield / lewis fight.
Tyson was that damm explosive in his early days there was nobady who could really touch him, so dint need to come back and win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Ive watched nearly all of lewis's fights from an early age onwards and can honestly say i may be a bit biased as never liked him - He reminds me of a suped up version of audley harrison. In some fights he looks terrified of thought of being hit, its pritty embarrasing watching a 6.8foot man running like a child. lewis never made the fights his oppenents did
Mike Tyson was an under achiever who let his personal life effect his business life...they need to know the difference because it is a big one.....
As for Lennox beating Tyson at any point in his career..welll...if you take both at their peak yes it is very possible and not a long stretch by any means...Lennox is a top 5-7 all time HW who had what it takes to beat any other hW in history on any given night...again Lennox had some down falls that caused him to lose the fights he did...He was over confident in himself........
I am not going to call it a BS read or biased but truth be told it was not approached in a professional way
ali, frazier, johnson, foreman, tyson, liston, louis thats 7 already greater than lewis IMO, dont get me rong i love lennox but i think hes more an 8-12 all time heavy, but feel free to disagree.
now as for tyson --
a peak tyson would of taken out lewis, we saw in the holyfield fights lewis does not like to fight in fast exchanges, he would be puffed out by the 8th round if he got there, thats not sayin hes unfit but he is a large large man and so would have tired earlier. tyson in his prime i believe is underated by many, remember people thought that tyson was going to be the greatest heavyweight of all time.... therefore he must have put on performances of that merit, he just peaked early thats all like all fighters of his build and style. now dont say thats like thinking amir kahn was going to be the best lightweight ever because he hasnt won a Wt yet, tyson had unified them remember...
how can u say tyson is higher than lewis on an all time list. So you think he accomplished more in his carrer the Lewis? please.
Tyson was amazing but his prime was so short that he basicly didnt have what it took in the long run!
tyson was the youngest champion, and unified the titles before his 23rd birthday i think. i think you have to rank boxers with a combination of how good they were at their peak and how much they achived in their whole career. a peak tyson was in the top 5 no doubt, prehaps 3? his overall career accomplishments still rank high with the unification and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
lewis i dont believe in his peak would get past ali, foreman ( who i dont think tyson would have either) but also louis, liston, frazier(altho mayb) and so on, its just my opinon, there is no doubt tyson achived alot in his career.
What u rank fighters in an all time list on what the accoumplished in their whole carrer not just a few years..Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
that was a silly comment
how was it? if tyson retired at 23 he would still be on the lists even though he only achived the same as he never really did much after except regain the belt.
dont forget lewis is only a 3 time world champion out of losing to lacklusture opposition. not once but twice (so dont bring up ali spinks) i recognise tyson also did this which is why i dont rank the fact that a fighter won a world title or reclaimed it. ali i would give credit for as he was supposidly fighting with parkinsons.
not such a silly comment i think you will find
Evander Holyfield never had a problem fighting guys who were more powerful or faster than him, he negated these attributes with his smothering style.Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAY
Lennox Lewis negated speed and power by hardly ever being caught inbetween he kept distance with the jab and when he closed he used the uppercut and tied up better than anyone this side of Ali.
Mike Tyson isn't a top 10 All-Time Great, he doesn't rank over Lewis or Holyfield and infact I find that he and Riddick Bowe have a lot in common. They were dominant champions but only for a short period of time and this hurts their All-Time Great standing in my opinion but not so much that it keeps them from being considered great.
Lennox Lewis beat every man he faced and took revenge on his two fluke loses.. Tyson got beat by some absoluted Jokers, and when you look who they have both faced and beat Lewis comes out out top easily.. Not even an argument in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
I don't really have an opinon either way on mike but for every great fighter there are always those who can come up with reasons why he or she isn't great.
But here's the thing, Tyson had his power to an extent but after jail he tried to get all that power into one shot. Before that he would throw power but it was always in combinations and counter shots and things like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think people forget how sloppy Tyson looked upon his return to the ring and he was basically a look for one punch all night kind of fighter at that point and all of his craft combination punching and head movement were abandoned or mostly abandoned at that point.
Tyson was a much smarter fighter strategy-wise up to the Spinks fight. Or as Teddy Atlas says, up to the Bruno fight.
I totally agree Majesty but the way Holyfield and Lewis tied people up really combination punchers were EASIER for them to beat....look who beat them in their primes Riddick Bowe, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Michael Moorer.....not the best combination punchers I guess aside from Moorer who just had a good workrate and Holyfield obviously had issues on that night
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
C'Mon now Lyle lets be real here for a minute...you don't have to be a Lewis fan to know damn well he lost the McCall and Rahman fights for no other reason then a cocky attitude and lack of proper training....Had nothing to do with being out fought or outclassed...There is a difference between being shown up during your prime and just comning in out of shape and arrogant getting yourself caught with a KO punch
I disconnected myself from boxing during the Tyson era. He beat up bums and I was tired of the hype behind it. King was burning and milking Tyson hot and dry and stealing the publics money. Very sad for the sport and Tyson is a nut who should have been locked up and they should have thrown away the key. The thing I hate most is that Tyson was beat by a BUSTER. Phuk all BUSTERS! ESTRELLAS AND FARMEROS!
>:mad
There really were two careers for Tyson BD and AD (Before Douglas and after) I don't think there has ever been a HW Champion of the World who generated more interest,hype etc apart from Ali than Tyson.
What he achieved in such a short time and the impact he had on the division in the 80's was incredible, some fighters did well against him and frustrated him to a decision win (Tucker and Smith) most of his opponents were simply crushed inside 5 rounds, his demolition of Spinks was a total destruction not seen since Foreman destroyed Frazier! Then along came Buster and combined with a whole bunch of personal problems that was the end of that! Career number two we saw a completely different fighter, one who wasn't feared and lacked the commitment and will to be a success that we saw in career one. Would he have beaten Lewis in his Prime? Who knows, if Rahman could do it then Tyson in his prime (86-89) would probably have Ko'd Lewis .
Overall the Tyson legacy will be one of major disappointment and a career left unfulfilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Fears_Cotto
You can turn anyone on a record into bums and forget the fact that they were champs when Tyson fought them.
There are champs who beat top contenders who went on to be bums in the future but were considered a threat when they fought them :)
Tyson was something miraculous in a non-miraculous heavyweight division. Very much like Wlad is right now.
I paid a worker at New York's zoo to re-open it just for me and Robin. When we got to the gorilla cage there was 1 big silverback gorilla there just bullying all the other gorillas. They were so powerful but their eyes were like an innocent infant. I offered the attendant $10,000 to open the cage and let smash that silverback's snotbox! He declined."
Random Mike statement.
I think Tyson's win over Berbick was very overrated, considering journeyman Bernardo Mercado destroyed Berbick in even quicker time in 1 round back in 79.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Hey all I was saying was that he was able to be KO'd by a guy that doesn't throw combinations much more so than anyone who did and it's the 100% truth considering the FACTS that are held within his record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
No combination puncher gave Lewis a loss or really tested him unless you count Holyfield and Lewis still beat him
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I can understand your point...I misunderstood what you were saying...My fault..CC...
As for the two losses sadly enough..those are the only 2 things that will haunt his legecy :-\
Yeah, other than that he had almost a perfect career.....choosing to fight Vitali also left questions about Lewis but he won and retired and not a minute too soon.
CC
as everyone probly knows im a HUGE Tyson fan. And yes i think a young Mike would beat any Lewis and not just becuase of his power....his handspeed and the way he delivered the power was amazing for a heavy. I understand what ICB is saying that he is underated and overated at the same time however i am one of those who thinks at very least a young prime Tyson gives any heavy ever a very very tough nites work.
I agree. Whilst Tyson did suffer and benefit from hype, I think he has to be in the top ten heavyweights of all time, and I think he was capable of beating any of them in his prime. It would have taken fantastic movement, a fantastic jab and a fantastic chin to have overcome him, and I don't think many heavyweights had that combination.
Tyson was over rated. Name the great fighters Tyson beat... thats right, its pretty hard. Spinks came into that fight terrified and got beat. Its not Tyson's fault his division was weak, but he really didn't beat anyone very good. Holmes was beyond ancient. Berbick a bum. He fought some decent fighters, but beat no one great. Most of his high light real KOs were against total zeros. When he fought great fighters he generally lost. I'm sorry, but I am a real big one for proving your greatness against other great fighters to be considered an all timer and Tyson doesn't pass my test. All time great fighters beat a number of other great fighters and several very good fighters. Tyson beat 1 great fighter in Spinks and several other merely good fighters and a whole bunch of bums.
Everyone has a great highlight real against bums.
How can you say Tyson was overrated and then say it wasnt his fault he came across a weak heavyweight division?Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
Was Mike the best heavyweight in that division at the time he was ruling it, yes or no?
:)
He wasnt overrated, he just had a weak division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
A lot of those guys that Tyson destroyed were world class, but when Tyson got done they were forever ruined. So after Tyson virtually ends these world class heavyweights' careers, the haters try to sat that these guys were over-rated to begin with :-\
This is a conditition that has been been recognized in today's world of boxing.............
The people that say that Young Tyson was over-rated and fought bums suffer from the condition that is now known as haterism............ as evidenced by those who challenge PBF's greatness ;)