The man that could beat Floyd Mayweather is....... (don't laugh)

VERNON FORREST

I think Vernon forrest would do a job on Mayweather the same as he did Shane Mosley.

He has the reach, foot work, speed and reflexes to counter Mayweather and hold him off. This is, I think, what you need rather than a come forward style as many have tried.

I don't think the fight will ever happen but if it does... Just you watch ;)

The Vernon Forrest who beat Shane Mosley could have given Mayweather lots of problems. However, that Vernon Forrest doesn't exist anymore.

Have to agree with sweet pea, yes would of...now no way in hell.

have to agree with the guys the Vernon forrest that beat Shane is a distant memory, woulda made for a great matchup then though.

You know...that's a pretty good point...but as everyone else said...that Vernon no longer exists.

I think that Paul Williams would give Floyd huge issues now that I have seen him fight more & more.

Tall & rangey & throws a shit pot load of punches.

He has only lost TWICE in his whole career. One was a KO which can happen to anybody and the other was a close fight between him and a prime wild confident Mayorga.

I don't think he's lost it I just think he dropped off the map a little when he lost and didnt have enough marketability to come back that quickly.

I still think he's have enough left. Has one of the best jabs in the business, ask the prime Mosley (twice)

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Originally Posted by steady_E

He has only lost TWICE in his whole career. One was a KO which can happen to anybody and the other was a close fight between him and a prime wild confident Mayorga.

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Only two official losses, but virtually everyone agrees that he lost to Quartey a couple years ago and received a gift decision. (By the way, a prime Quartey is another example of a fighter who could give Floyd problems.)

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I don't think he's lost it I just think he dropped off the map a little when he lost and didnt have enough marketability to come back that quickly.

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The reason he dropped off the map and the reason he didn't come back quickly is because he has chronic left shoulder issues. Multiple shoulder surgeries are what forced him away in the first place. That's why he's not the same guy he used to be. Not only is he older, but his body has sustained multiple injuries.

People always pose threads here about what type of fighter can give Floyd problems, and I frequently mention a prime Vernon Forrest as a perfect example of the type of guy who could give Floyd lots of style problems. So I agree with the basic premise of your thread. But Vernon is just not the same guy he was 6 or 7 years ago. He's still good enough to beat Carlos Baldomir and Michele Piccarillo, but not Floyd Mayweather.

Vernon Forrest would get countered with right hands over the top of his jab Mayweather is a master at doing that. Forrest did beat Mosley in impressive fashion but lets not forget Mosley suffered a bad head butt in that fight which seemed to badly effect him. And in the rematch Mosley done a lot better and some people even think he beat Forrest in the rematch. Mosley allow Forrest to off set his rhythm with clinches plus Mosley was going mostly going for head shots instead of going to the body which he should of done. Mayweather is a much better boxer than Mosley who has never been a pure boxer more a boxer/puncher. Forrest would give Mayweather a tough fight but i still see Mayweather winning a decision all he has to do is watch out for Forrest's deadly right hand.

I thought this was going to be another Mayorda thread............... :D

One guy has just as much chance as another at this point, i still think paul williams would come closest but forrest isn't too far fetched i think.

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Originally Posted by steady_E

VERNON FORREST

I think Vernon forrest would do a job on Mayweather the same as he did Shane Mosley.

He has the reach, foot work, speed and reflexes to counter Mayweather and hold him off. This is, I think, what you need rather than a come forward style as many have tried.

I don't think the fight will ever happen but if it does... Just you watch ;)

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If you are right ( and im not saying you are ) then i presume a prime Tommy Hearns kicks the crap outta Floyd ?
which is my opinion , wot do you guys think ? Williams in my opinion does stand any chance of winning he get widely outpointed by Floyd.

I think Paul Williams would give Floyd Problems but I don't think he has great punching power to keep Floyd honest.With that being said I think Cintron would have a better chance at Floyd.He doesn't throw as many punches but he puts alot on them and he's quicker than he looks.

Nope. Sorry. Even the Forrest of old couldn't have done it. Forrest claimed the key to beating speed was the jab. But that isn't how he beat Mosley in either fight. He hit and held constantly, especially in the 2nd fight which is why, save for the lone knockdown the two fights were mostly BORING. Mayweather has the uncanny ability to make opponents fight off gameplan (a-la, De La Hoya and the alleged jab he'd throw all night, Hatton's lack of clinching) and if he attempted to hit Mayweather and then hold he would find himself countered whilst grasping at air and then bombed subsequently with body shots. The way I see it, Williams is the best possible hope in recent years of someone who MIGHT be able to do it, although I think he'd fair moderately better than Corrales did in a losing effort.

Vernon Forest will lose to all the top junior middleweights out there today. Granted, the fights would be competitive.

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

Vernon Forrest would get countered with right hands over the top of his jab Mayweather is a master at doing that. Forrest did beat Mosley in impressive fashion but lets not forget Mosley suffered a bad head butt in that fight which seemed to badly effect him. And in the rematch Mosley done a lot better and some people even think he beat Forrest in the rematch. Mosley allow Forrest to off set his rhythm with clinches plus Mosley was going mostly going for head shots instead of going to the body which he should of done. Mayweather is a much better boxer than Mosley who has never been a pure boxer more a boxer/puncher. Forrest would give Mayweather a tough fight but i still see Mayweather winning a decision all he has to do is watch out for Forrest's deadly right hand.

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that's what i believe to, only vernon's jab is too long for floyd and it might keep him at bay..

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

You know...that's a pretty good point...but as everyone else said...that Vernon no longer exists.

I think that Paul Williams would give Floyd huge issues now that I have seen him fight more & more.

Tall & rangey & throws a S*** pot load of punches.

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Agreed Paul Williams would be a tougher fight . Forrest didnt look good vs Ike . Doubt either fight will ever be made though .

Mayorga ruined Forrest.

Forrest is done. Beating Baldomir and Priccillo don't impress me. Forrest needs to rematch Ike Quartey. Quartey whupped his ass. I give Forrest no chance against Mayweather

Mayweather is his most vulnerable now. Im not saying he is washed up or an old fighter cause he is not. But since around the time he left Lightweight he has fought a lot differently. Of course he has made adjustments because of the weight and lost some speed, but there are other things I have noticed. He backs himself to the ropes more and more every fight. He gets away with it because he is that talented and elusive, but Its not something he used to do. Another thing he does less of is throw combinations. In the Hatton and Oscar fights he was throwing only one or two punches at a time for most of the rounds. At lightweight he put his punches toghether. Dont get me wrong, he is one of the best in the world, but at Light Welterweight and Welterweight he looks very different. Hatton couldnt beat Mayweather cause he didnt have the tools to do it. Oscar may have but those tools were too rusty and worn out. Williams has the right things to beat him as does Forrest (possibly) and Cotto might also. I think it will be a rangier fighter that will give him his first loss though.

Mayweather cannot live with the best light middle's such as Karmazan too big.

I certainly think Forrest could give Floyd problems based on pure size alone.

He was simply too big for Shane Mosely and Floyd is smaller than Sugar Shane.

Forrest stands 6 feet tall and is HUGE compared to lil Floyd.

As the poster just above me said as well, Roman Karmazin would be a HUGE test for Floyd too.

Floyd isn't big enough for 154 lbs imo.

Both those fights, Forrest and Karmazin would represent major obstacles for Floyd imo becuase they are simply so much bigger.

There comes a time when skills and speed are no match for simple size and brute force.

At 154 lbs I think Floyd could find that out to his cost.

I don't think Vernon wins, time and time again Mosley has shown himself as not a true boxer. He is a boxer puncher who does great when he can fight at his range which is close enough to throw combinations and far enough to dodge his opponents punches, the tallers guys like Vernon and Winky didn't let him find that distance and also Mosley isn't very good at going backwards, at lightweight he was so powerful he never learnt how and its definitely something you need to know how to do. Mayweather has all the things Mosley didn't, a great defense(not jut reflexes), great footwork(though he is using it less and less), much better pot shot type fighter(which is the only way a short guy can beat a tall guy from a distance), and he has a much better sixth sense than Mosley in that he knows punches are coming even when he doesn't see them. I don't think you can compare Mayweather against Dela Hoya or Hatton with Vernon because they are both faster, and have always been faster of foot than Vernon. If you say Robinson beats Mayweather thats a given because Robinson was intelligent, he threw good combinations, he threw bombs from unpredictable angles, but Vernon isn't that great, Mayweather has foughten plenty of tall guys (Corrales, N'dou, Oscar just to few) and none of them were able to take advantage of their height). A guy similar to Mayweather Roy Jones jr. showed plenty of times what speed does to height.

Plus I see Oscar beating Karmazin, I see Oscar beating FOrest if they fought... I felt Quartey beat Forest as well in a close fight... I see Mayweather being able to win this relatively weak division compared to the one he is in right now.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by steady_E

VERNON FORREST

I think Vernon forrest would do a job on Mayweather the same as he did Shane Mosley.

He has the reach, foot work, speed and reflexes to counter Mayweather and hold him off. This is, I think, what you need rather than a come forward style as many have tried.

I don't think the fight will ever happen but if it does... Just you watch ;)

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If you are right ( and im not saying you are ) then i presume a prime Tommy Hearns kicks the crap outta Floyd ?
which is my opinion , wot do you guys think ? Williams in my opinion does stand any chance of winning he get widely outpointed by Floyd.

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I'm not willing to predict with confidence that anybody at WW would kick the crap out of Floyd, but Hearns would stand a better chance than most. Hearns was a better all-around boxer than Williams, and he had better one-punch power. Williams only chance to beat Floyd is on close decision where he gets the edge because of his workrate and it might take Floyd a few more rounds than usual to figure him out.

Floyd has fought tall guys, but he's never fought someone who uses his height as well as Hearns did. Oscar was a taller fighter, but he's only 5'10", but he doesn't really fight tall. Chico was 5'11." Hearns was freaking 6'1" with 78 reach. He threw a variety of jabs - hard/snappy and flickering and he could fight going backwards and forwards. If Hearns fough against Floyd the way he did in the middle rounds against Leonard, Floyd would be in for a long night. If that was a 12 round fight, Hearns wins a UD. Still Hearns was chinny, and I can see Floyd planting a few counter hooks right on the button.

If I could pick two fantasy bouts for Floyd from fighters of any era, I would pick Hearns and Robinson. I would love to see how those would play out.

That Vernon only lasted for that one night to beat Shane. Lets not forget he was less then stellar in the rematch and sparked by Mayorga soon after you think he could beat Mayweather? and Mayweather rarely has issues with tall fighters. Best shot Forrest has is an uppercut and whens the last time you've seen Mayweather hit with an uppercut

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Mayweather is his most vulnerable now. Im not saying he is washed up or an old fighter cause he is not. But since around the time he left Lightweight he has fought a lot differently. Of course he has made adjustments because of the weight and lost some speed, but there are other things I have noticed. He backs himself to the ropes more and more every fight. He gets away with it because he is that talented and elusive, but Its not something he used to do.

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I hate to cut half your post in half...but I wanted to touch on this & discuss it more...because I have been seeing more & more people saying this...& I just don't get it.

I think that Floyd has actually gotten better with his age & weight.

Floyd's kind of like Hopkins in the fact that he's so gifted defensively...he's rarely been hurt...if ever. I don't get the idea that he's fighting that differently because I just believe that he's got a boxing brain that keeps him continuously adapting to each opponent that he faces.

He looked fantastic against Hatton...a lot better than I expected him to look. Laying on the ropes is something that Floyd has always done...but YES...he does it a hell of a lot more now...but I think that it's the smarter way for him to fight at the higher weight. He crabs up in his shell & picks shots in between his opponent's onslaughts.

I hate to sound like a ball juggler here...but it's hard to pick against someone that's so close to being a perfect fighter...defensively at least.

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Originally Posted by GAME

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

You know...that's a pretty good point...but as everyone else said...that Vernon no longer exists.

I think that Paul Williams would give Floyd huge issues now that I have seen him fight more & more.

Tall & rangey & throws a S*** pot load of punches.

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Agreed Paul Williams would be a tougher fight . Forrest didnt look good vs Ike . Doubt either fight will ever be made though .

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Agreed on all three points in your post. Williams will be tuff because of the reach & activity, Forrest looked shitty against Ike, & I don't see Floyd matching against Williams in the future. I say he retires before doing so. He'll rematch Oscar & maybe fight Cotto to close on a hell of a career...critics be damned!

Good points. :coolclick:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Forrest is done. Beating Baldomir and Priccillo don't impress me. Forrest needs to rematch Ike Quartey. Quartey whupped his a**. I give Forrest no chance against Mayweather

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:coolclick: Totally agreed on all of the above.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Mayweather is his most vulnerable now. Im not saying he is washed up or an old fighter cause he is not. But since around the time he left Lightweight he has fought a lot differently. Of course he has made adjustments because of the weight and lost some speed, but there are other things I have noticed. He backs himself to the ropes more and more every fight. He gets away with it because he is that talented and elusive, but Its not something he used to do.

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I hate to cut half your post in half...but I wanted to touch on this & discuss it more...because I have been seeing more & more people saying this...& I just don't get it.

I think that Floyd has actually gotten better with his age & weight.

Floyd's kind of like Hopkins in the fact that he's so gifted defensively...he's rarely been hurt...if ever. I don't get the idea that he's fighting that differently because I just believe that he's got a boxing brain that keeps him continuously adapting to each opponent that he faces.

He looked fantastic against Hatton...a lot better than I expected him to look. Laying on the ropes is something that Floyd has always done...but YES...he does it a hell of a lot more now...but I think that it's the smarter way for him to fight at the higher weight. He crabs up in his shell & picks shots in between his opponent's onslaughts.

I hate to sound like a ball juggler here...but it's hard to pick against someone that's so close to being a perfect fighter...defensively at least.

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Great point Wacko.. and I think another reason it's hard is because of something that i think we really don't put into perspective..

And that is the fact that we've never really seen Floyd desperate.. We've never seen him at a point where he had to really come back in a fight, or get up from a knock down and get into offensive mode.. Mayweather sits back and counter punches and studies the hell out of you so that when he does punch, he knows he will connect.. At the end of the Ricky fight, somewhere around the 8th round or so, we saw Floyd in offensive mode.. he was using his JAB and he was throwing combinations of body and head shots from all sorts of angles and he was overwhelming Hatton.. I think it's scary to think that we've never seen Floyd with his back against the ropes (figuratively) having to pour on some offense to win fights.. So besides the first fight against JLC (which is the fight he was probably in the most danger), and possibly the Oscar fight (split decision), I'm gonna go out and say we really haven't seen Mayweather have to use all of his arsenal in a number of fights.. and this makes it hard to gauge who/what style could beat him because we always see him act well to adversity.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Mayweather is his most vulnerable now. Im not saying he is washed up or an old fighter cause he is not. But since around the time he left Lightweight he has fought a lot differently. Of course he has made adjustments because of the weight and lost some speed, but there are other things I have noticed. He backs himself to the ropes more and more every fight. He gets away with it because he is that talented and elusive, but Its not something he used to do.

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I hate to cut half your post in half...but I wanted to touch on this & discuss it more...because I have been seeing more & more people saying this...& I just don't get it.

I think that Floyd has actually gotten better with his age & weight.

Floyd's kind of like Hopkins in the fact that he's so gifted defensively...he's rarely been hurt...if ever. I don't get the idea that he's fighting that differently because I just believe that he's got a boxing brain that keeps him continuously adapting to each opponent that he faces.

He looked fantastic against Hatton...a lot better than I expected him to look. Laying on the ropes is something that Floyd has always done...but YES...he does it a hell of a lot more now...but I think that it's the smarter way for him to fight at the higher weight. He crabs up in his shell & picks shots in between his opponent's onslaughts.

I hate to sound like a ball juggler here...but it's hard to pick against someone that's so close to being a perfect fighter...defensively at least.

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I agree with a lot of what your saying, But what happens when his reflexes diminish as they eventually? He relies so much more on accuracy and pinpiont punches, than punch output and throwing combinations. No doubt he is hard to pick against but even Roy Jones was thought to be invinsible. You say laying on the rope as is a smart thing to do at higher weight so he can shell up and pick his shots. I disagree here because when hes in with a bigger man who who can throw a lot of punches, what worked against Hatton wont work because Floyds punches wont have the same kind of effect and one punch at a time isnt going to back everyone off. But yes he is defensively gifted.

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Originally Posted by Master

Mayweather cannot live with the best light middle's such as Karmazan too big.

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Wait, so Corey Spinks can box for six rounds and take Karmazin's title, but Floyd wouldn't be able to handle him? Floyd brings enough for 15 rounds, Spinks isn't able to fight 5 without getting tired (and yes, I do think Spinks won). Shane Mosley is only an inch taller than Mayweather; I seriously doubt the fact that Forrest beat Mosley and is so big that his size alone would be problematic. I said it before and I'll say it again: Diego Corrales.

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Originally Posted by Master

Mayweather cannot live with the best light middle's such as Karmazan too big.

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Do you want to take this back? ;)

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by Master

Mayweather cannot live with the best light middle's such as Karmazan too big.

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Do you want to take this back? ;)

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Lol . I thought Karmizan was good b4 Saturday too , I must admit . Not sure about beating Floyd but I think it took a puncher to beat Roman and that guy may be worthing keeping an eye out for cuz he kept to his game and got a K.O .

How stupid did I feel when that happened. :-\

What I meant to say was, Mayweather could not beat a prime Karmazan or KO any world class light middleweight (watch him now KO Oscar in the rematch now)

I'm the biggest PBF fan you'll meet and i have to say i respect the topic starters comments. I think Vernon is a respectable foe i'm not sure he wins but it would be a tough fight.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Mayweather is his most vulnerable now. Im not saying he is washed up or an old fighter cause he is not. But since around the time he left Lightweight he has fought a lot differently.

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I've always thought that PBF should have stayed at 135 alittle longer.