yea ,rocky marciano wouldnt be undefeated in the golden era, joe louis ....

wouldve had a short reign. i bring this up because every1 says oh rocky wouldnt be the legend he is if he had been in the golden era, but neither would joe louis...a point people fail 2 bring up.

marciano claim 2 fame--never lost a fight
louis claim 2 fame--25 title defenses and longest reign in hw history

louis in the golden era--could he have made successful title defenses against - ali, frazier, foreman, norton--i say no, i can see louis with 1 or 2 defenses -then loosing 2 1 of those guys

marciano -- i cant even see becoming hw champ. loosing to all the above as well.

my point being if u gonna dis marciano for quality opp--u must dis louis as well

Sure. I don't think either would have beaten Ali, Foreman, or Holmes at their best. I'd give Joe Louis a crack at Frazier, think he'd probably beat Norton, Shavers, Quarry, and the next tier.. He was a better boxer than Rocky, and noone was gunna beat those Golden era HW's with brawling tactics like Marciano, imo.

Why does this matter?

Is there a point to this thread?

Rocky Marciano fought some great fighters, they were older but he beat them and he went undefeated....what else would he have to do to impress you???? Apparently come back from the dead and fight Ali, Foreman, and Frazier.

Joe Louis successfully defended his title 25 times, he fought 7 times in one year WHILE CHAMPION OF THE WORLD and won all those fights on stoppage.

If we're looking back in time then we must admit Muhammed Ali wouldn't last in today's division, neither would Frazier, and neither would Foreman.

They were great for that time but Heavyweights got bigger and stronger. But that doesn't mean anything they were still the best of there era even if you question there opposition you can't deny they fought everyone. And i think your forgetting Marciano would be in Cruiserweight division now which i think he would very well in. And lets not forget imagine if Marciano, Louis, were trained like modern fighters they would be even better. And i for 100 percent would give a prime Louis a shot against Ali in the 60s. Louis had such devastating power on the inside with his short little chopping hooks, there is a reason he is called one of the best punchers of all time and ditto for Marciano. Louis also had great hand speed sure he was flat footed but that doesn't mean he hasn't got a chance against Holmes, Ali, or Foreman. Because both Holmes and Ali have struggled with fighters who didn't have good foot movement, aka Mike Weaver for Holmes, aka Doug Jones for Ali. I think Foreman may be a little too big for Louis but i wouldn't write off Louis. Because look at what Jimmy Young done to Foreman he totally out boxed him and nullified his offense, and Young wasn't that much bigger in weight that Louis was Young was 213, 6'2, when he fought Foreman, and Louis is 6'2 and could weigh 207 and even a little bit more and still be in good fighting shape so don't underestimate Louis.

Lyle I have to disagree. Ali would be great in the modern era! His size is well suited to modern heavies, his skills are unquestionable and his chin was one of the best ever. A prime ALI would dominate every era for me, only running into problems with prime Holmes, Norton, Louis and Johnson imo.

fact is if rocky had been around in the GOLDEN ERA he'd have natrually been a few inch's taller and 20-30 lbs heavyer, its like saying the 70's fighters taking on the golden era of the 90's heavys

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Lyle I have to disagree. Ali would be great in the modern era! His size is well suited to modern heavies, his skills are unquestionable and his chin was one of the best ever. A prime ALI would dominate every era for me, only running into problems with prime Holmes, Norton, Louis and Johnson imo.

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Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko.....all bigger, stronger, and more athletic fighters than Ali ever fought including Larry Holmes.

They were/are bigger punchers, they used their size to their advantage, they were/are more than one trick ponies, they had more than ONE punch.


At this point in time Ali would be equal to Chris Byrd in a Ray Austin body or Larry Donald with a little more speed and crisper punches.....and honestly he wouldn't be able to handle those big punchers....I'm sorry it's true though. At the time Ali was a freak of nature he was huge (6'4 225) and fast and could take a punch and had an odd style but the guys he fought had styles that played right into his hands....Foreman, Frazier....plodding power punchers who couldn't put punches together to save their lives....they were strong and had heart but they just couldn't fight Ali's style whereas todays fighters would crush that style.


I think a prime Holyfield would be tough for Ali to beat

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think a prime Holyfield would be tough for Ali to beat

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Hmm good argument, it would be tough but Ali would still beat him. His speed for a HW is just too much. Ali by UD

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Why does this matter?

Is there a point to this thread?

Rocky Marciano fought some great fighters, they were older but he beat them and he went undefeated....what else would he have to do to impress you???? Apparently come back from the dead and fight Ali, Foreman, and Frazier.

Joe Louis successfully defended his title 25 times, he fought 7 times in one year WHILE CHAMPION OF THE WORLD and won all those fights on stoppage.

If we're looking back in time then we must admit Muhammed Ali wouldn't last in today's division, neither would Frazier, and neither would Foreman.

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u got me all wrong--marciano is 1 of my favorites--the purpose of this this thread was stop dissing rocky. the same people never give rocky credit for being undefeated cuz of his opposition r the same people who praise joe louis. the quality opp for louis is the same. so people shouldt praise louis then slam marciano

If Marciano would of fought in the 1980's or 90's and even now in the 2000's he would of got his ass smashed.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

If Marciano would of fought in the 1980's or 90's and even now in the 2000's he would of got his a** smashed.

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so would louis

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Originally Posted by undefeated

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

If Marciano would of fought in the 1980's or 90's and even now in the 2000's he would of got his a** smashed.

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so would louis

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He would do a little better. But yeah he to would get smashed

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

If Marciano would of fought in the 1980's or 90's and even now in the 2000's he would of got his a** smashed.

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he would be a cruiserweight by todays standards....so more like alot of cruisers today would be getting there ass handed to em by rocky.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

If Marciano would of fought in the 1980's or 90's and even now in the 2000's he would of got his a** smashed.

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he would be a cruiserweight by todays standards....so more like alot of cruisers today would be getting there a** handed to em by rocky.

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Cruisers not notorious for depth to begin with , nor Marciano for his multi dimensions.There would be some hurt dealt out mutually but In the end Marciano would get mucked up more than a few times.
Im thinking Kenny Keene ;D

In modern boxing it is a distinct possability that Rocky would not have been as succesful.
It is also a distinct possability that his work ethic and dedication could have made him great, but perhaps at Light Heavy, given modern training, conditioning and nutrition.

Horses for courses.
In th era of the smaller heavyweight. Where stamina, power and resilience were the key rather than size, power and chin, Marciano was King.
He would be so succesful now, but then again one couldn't rule out wins against Chagaev, Imbragimov or the second Tier, could they?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Lyle I have to disagree. Ali would be great in the modern era! His size is well suited to modern heavies, his skills are unquestionable and his chin was one of the best ever. A prime ALI would dominate every era for me, only running into problems with prime Holmes, Norton, Louis and Johnson imo.

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Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko.....all bigger, stronger, and more athletic fighters than Ali ever fought including Larry Holmes.

They were/are bigger punchers, they used their size to their advantage, they were/are more than one trick ponies, they had more than ONE punch.


At this point in time Ali would be equal to Chris Byrd in a Ray Austin body or Larry Donald with a little more speed and crisper punches.....and honestly he wouldn't be able to handle those big punchers....I'm sorry it's true though. At the time Ali was a freak of nature he was huge (6'4 225) and fast and could take a punch and had an odd style but the guys he fought had styles that played right into his hands....Foreman, Frazier....plodding power punchers who couldn't put punches together to save their lives....they were strong and had heart but they just couldn't fight Ali's style whereas todays fighters would crush that style.


I think a prime Holyfield would be tough for Ali to beat

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Are you crazy?

ali's the only one who would reign as champ in all eras. i dont know what you are talking about that ali couldnt take a current heavyweights punches when forman at this age can probably still punch harder imo and he won a title at 44 so imagine what a prime ali would do!!!

Foreman learned to BOX when he was older, when he was younger he was a raw fighter....how many right crosses did he KO his opponents with in his prime? Not very many I can assure you, he threw hooks and uppercuts and his style was VERY raw. How was his jab in his younger days??? WHAT JAB? He is a great fighter obviously but his style did not help him when he fought Ali. And had he known about BOXING when he fought Ali then he would have won end of story.

You compare how Foreman fought Ali to how Lewis, Bowe, and The Klitschko's would fight Ali and you have apples and oranges. You have taller, stronger, more athletic fighters throwing straighter punches AND combinations you can't tell me Ali would easily beat those guys or even that he would KO those guys...yes EVEN WLAD could go the distance with Ali.

This size issue is just as much an issue for Ali as it is for Marciano and Louis.....Rocky and Louis were small but by today's standards Ali was small too and his power wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination back in the 60's and 70's either and so compared to today's heavyweights I am sure they could handle his punches even if he did flurry on them.


We can't have one set of rules for Ali and then another set for Rocky and Joe Louis.....if people want to say Ali is the greatest of all-time and would never lose to anyone eventhough he lost to Joe Frazier and Ken Norton(which only supports my claim that Bowe, Lewis, and The Klitschko's could beat him) then fine blindly follow the crowd.

I have my own set of beliefs which I back up with history and factual evidence: Joe Louis 25 successful title defenses, Rocky Marciano 49(43 KO)-0-0.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Foreman learned to BOX when he was older, when he was younger he was a raw fighter....how many right crosses did he KO his opponents with in his prime? Not very many I can assure you, he threw hooks and uppercuts and his style was VERY raw. How was his jab in his younger days??? WHAT JAB? He is a great fighter obviously but his style did not help him when he fought Ali. And had he known about BOXING when he fought Ali then he would have won end of story.

You compare how Foreman fought Ali to how Lewis, Bowe, and The Klitschko's would fight Ali and you have apples and oranges. You have taller, stronger, more athletic fighters throwing straighter punches AND combinations you can't tell me Ali would easily beat those guys or even that he would KO those guys...yes EVEN WLAD could go the distance with Ali.

This size issue is just as much an issue for Ali as it is for Marciano and Louis.....Rocky and Louis were small but by today's standards Ali was small too and his power wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination back in the 60's and 70's either and so compared to today's heavyweights I am sure they could handle his punches even if he did flurry on them.


We can't have one set of rules for Ali and then another set for Rocky and Joe Louis.....if people want to say Ali is the greatest of all-time and would never lose to anyone eventhough he lost to Joe Frazier and Ken Norton(which only supports my claim that Bowe, Lewis, and The Klitschko's could beat him) then fine blindly follow the crowd.

I have my own set of beliefs which I back up with history and factual evidence: Joe Louis 25 successful title defenses, Rocky Marciano 49(43 KO)-0-0.

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true-the 70's ali lost to them, but 60's ali would have won all 3 of 3. when i think of ali-i think of the 60's flabslab, the true ali. after he came back he was just a shadow of flabslab, now having to depend on his chin. as far as louis and marciano go, no1 can take away their achievements that may never happen again

Ali had trouble with guys that could jab with him and negate his size....are you telling me that Bowe, Lewis, and The Klitschko's couldn't jab with Ali or negate his size?

What do I think of Ali using the rope-a-dope on those guys....well I think that would be suicide

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Ali had trouble with guys that could jab with him and negate his size....are you telling me that Bowe, Lewis, and The Klitschko's couldn't jab with Ali or negate his size?

What do I think of Ali using the rope-a-dope on those guys....well I think that would be suicide

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true--but the 60's ali would circle around them avoiding their jab, and would not use a rope a dope

.....and circling would bother who? Todays fighters are athletic enough to handle movement and negate it with their size and their own athletic skill.

Wladimir, Bowe, and Lewis never got bothered with movement as they could move fairly well themselves

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Originally Posted by Lyle

.....and circling would bother who? Todays fighters are athletic enough to handle movement and negate it with their size and their own athletic skill.

Wladimir, Bowe, and Lewis never got bothered with movement as they could move fairly well themselves

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if all of todays fighters r so great how come the 70's was golden era of boxing? ali is a head hunter, he aint gonna hit their body so yes Wladimir ,Bowe, Lewis are bigger and great figters as well, but how many head shots would they b able 2 take from ali?

....Enough to beat him...Ali didn't hit that hard, he flurried and I doubt these guys would allow that

Bowe, Lewis, and The Klitschko's fought in slightly different eras. Bowe was tailing off in his career when Lewis just became a champion and Lewis was on the way out when the Klitschko's were getting their titles.

Boxing isn't what it used to be in regards to popularity and stature in the sports world and it's extremely hard to find the ONE BEST fighter in any division as making big fights has become increasingly difficult. Wlad-Sultan Ibragimov is the first unification bout in the heavyweight division since Lewis-Holyfield in 1999.

The problem with "this era" is that we got guys like Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, The Klitschko's, etc....but they hardly ever fought each other much less the same opponents