Will Kelly Pavlik Be in Top 10 P4P If He Beats Jermain Taylor Again ??

This is how i have top 10.

1 Floyd Mayweather
2 Manny Pacquiao
3 Joe Calzaghe
4 Bernard Hopkins
5 Juan Manuel Marquez
6 Miguel Cotto
7 Israel Vasquez
8 Rafael Marquez
9 Ivan Calderon
10 Juan Diaz

With Pavlik at 11 my question is do you think he should be top 10 p4p fighter if he beats Taylor again ?? im not so sure on this so i need you guys/girls to help me make up my mind.

unless his first win was considered a fluke then obviously no...

Taylor wasnt in the top 10 when he beat him, and if taylor cud finish he would still be the champ. yes kelly showed heart to carry on and win and that earns respect, but shit this guy isnt and never will be a top 10 p4p...

i had very big hopes for taylor but he turned out to be a complete let down, the guy JUST about beat a freaking "decent" light middleweight before getting knocked out.. sure taylor can do more than what he has shown, but if pavlik beats him again then all he has proven is he is better than a guy who isnt in the top 10 in the world.

P4P means nothing to me, too hard to gauge accurately and it is too suggestive.

I will say this though. I would rather watch Pavlik fight over many in your list. Juan Diaz is right up there though, not intense but such graceful effortless offence.

Pavlik is already top 10. if the undefeated MW Champion of the world isn;t 1 of the top 10 fighters in the world the sport has real issues.

No, because Pavlik barely survived early rounds, Taylor has a lot of difficulties with smaller fighters of late, and Pavlik is just a one dimensional puncher... PUt him in with Calzaghe or Hopkins and he will get eaten up.

I don't think so....TBH his best wins are over Taylor and Miranda....I don't think even if he wins the Taylor rematch those wins merit him being in the P4P top 10.....

Today I think guys get thrown in the P4P list a bit too quickly....IMO to be considered P4P you need more then 2 or 3 wins against the top tier...even if one of them are or were in the P4P rankings

Which goes to ask who has Juan Diaz, Ivan Calderon foughten? Certainly no top tier opponents. I still think Rafael and Israel aren't quite as good as everybody is making them out to be, especially Israel, I just feel he has Rafael's number.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Which goes to ask who has Juan Diaz, Ivan Calderon foughten? Certainly no top tier opponents. I still think Rafael and Israel aren't quite as good as everybody is making them out to be, especially Israel, I just feel he has Rafael's number.

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IMO Juan is not a P4P fighter...I think he is the best LW out thewre right now but there is a difference between being #1 in your division and P4P elite...I cant remember seeing Calderon on anyones P4P list...but a stronger case could be made for him then Diaz since many of the guys down at the LFW are good fighters just unheard of

Big deal, Pavlik got dropped against Taylor. Pavlik got his a** up and won the fight. The fact is he did something guys like Wright and Hopkins couldn't do, he beat Taylor decisively. Also, Pavlik is not just a puncher. he has good range and throws good situational punches. Pavlik is slow but he does have some skill. Pavlik is easily 1 of the top 10 fighters in the world....EASILY. Putting guys ahead of Pavlik who lost there last fight is silly (Marquez) and didn;t Calderon get dropped in his last fight? yep.

If people look through the divisions division by division there's not 10 guys definantely better than Pavlik. Anyways here is my list.

1 Floyd Mayweather
2 Manny Pacquiao
3 Joe Calzaghe
4 Bernard Hopkins
5 Juan Manuel Marquez
6 Miguel Cotto
7 Kelly Pavlik
8 Israel Vasquez
9 Rafael Marquez
10 Christian Mijares

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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis

unless his first win was considered a fluke then obviously no...

Taylor wasnt in the top 10 when he beat him, and if taylor cud finish he would still be the champ. yes kelly showed heart to carry on and win and that earns respect, but S*** this guy isnt and never will be a top 10 p4p...

i had very big hopes for taylor but he turned out to be a complete let down, the guy JUST about beat a freaking "decent" light middleweight before getting knocked out.. sure taylor can do more than what he has shown, but if pavlik beats him again then all he has proven is he is better than a guy who isnt in the top 10 in the world.

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I thought Taylor was in the top 10 P4P ?? if i remember right most people here had him top 10 P4P fighter, and i think in the official rankings he was top 10 P4P as well.

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Originally Posted by valdosta

If people look through the divisions division by division there's not 10 guys definantely better than Pavlik. Anyways here is my list.

1 Floyd Mayweather
2 Manny Pacquiao
3 Joe Calzaghe
4 Bernard Hopkins
5 Juan Manuel Marquez
6 Miguel Cotto
7 Kelly Pavlik
8 Israel Vasquez
9 Rafael Marquez
10 Christian Mijares

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What has Mijares done to warrant a place in the top 10? He beat Jorge Arce the Arturo Gatti of the flyweights, that don't make somebody p4p.

Ivan Calderon is undefeated, unlike Mijares, and a two weight world champ. Mijares isn't even in the top 20. Kessler, Taylor, Mosely, Juan Diaz, Juan Guzman, De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Calderon all without a doubt have better resumes.

I'd even put David Haye above Mijares, and Wlad Klitschko. Mijares has one win over a name opponent and that was against an exciting but limited B Level fighter. Arce is not even a top 30 p4p star so how does decisioning him put someone in the top 10? ???

Rest of the list is ok but Pavlik isn't quite top 10 yet. I completely agree with you regarding his potential and I think he will prove himself to be a top 10 p4p fighter in time but as of yet he hasn't made a signle world title defense yet.

His win over Taylor was spectacular and exciting but when creating a fair p4p list you cannot put someone based on media attention but on merit. Guys like Juan Diaz, Ivan Calderon and even Ricky Hatton have all won multiple world titles and made numerous succesful defenses hence they rate above him for now.

As to the original question, will he make the top 10 if he beats Taylor again, I'm not sure possibly for a while but it depends on other results. Certainly if he wins again he will have proven beyond doubt that he is for real and that the middleweight division has a genuine new star.

Well he did knock him out the first time and if that did not put him in the top 10 P4P than beating him again won't do it.

Whether he is or he is not I leave up to you. But if right now you do not have him as a top 10, than another win over Taylor should not do it for him.

In response to some of things said here.

I believe Taylor was on most P4P lists at the time he lossed, though he was near the bottom.

Calderon cleaned up his division and was a champion for a long time then moved up and took on the undisputed top fighter in that division and beat him, despite being close to 20 pounds lighter and near a foot shorter. If that is not enough to make him at least 10th in your list, than I don't know what does. Imagine if he had been a welter, he might have been top 5 now.

Kelly Pavlik just won his first title in his last fight. Why would he be over Juan Diaz who has had several defenses and is a Unified champion with not 2 but 3 belts.

Finally, I think Miguel Cotto is a little too high on most people's list. Yes he is considered by most second only to Mayweather in a very hot division. But that consideration is mearly an opinion by the majority that has not been truely put to the test. Judah and Mosley were great wins but in trueth, Mosley should not have been in any P4P list when he fought Cotto therefore beating him should not make you one of the top P4P fighters.

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis

unless his first win was considered a fluke then obviously no...

Taylor wasnt in the top 10 when he beat him, and if taylor cud finish he would still be the champ. yes kelly showed heart to carry on and win and that earns respect, but S*** this guy isnt and never will be a top 10 p4p...

i had very big hopes for taylor but he turned out to be a complete let down, the guy JUST about beat a freaking "decent" light middleweight before getting knocked out.. sure taylor can do more than what he has shown, but if pavlik beats him again then all he has proven is he is better than a guy who isnt in the top 10 in the world.

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I thought Taylor was in the top 10 P4P ?? if i remember right most people here had him top 10 P4P fighter, and i think in the official rankings he was top 10 P4P as well.

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some people hear had him, some didn't...

The ring dropped him a fair while before the pavlik fight.

Taylor beats number four twice in Hopkins. Pavlik beats Taylor by knock out? Pavlik not in the top ten?

I'm a huge fan of Pavlik's and will be rooting for him again vs. Taylor. But I think top 10 talk is premature. Let's use the same measuring stick for him that we use for all the others. You gotta have a few more big names on your resume besides Taylor and Miranda before you start bumping other, more deserving fighters for top 10 p4p. Just MHO, of course.

I think in my last list,I had Kelly at 10 anyway,but some thought that was too high.In hindsight,I can agree with them.I don't think a win would move him any higher although,strangley,it does show us what Kelly would be like at 168,because JT is a 168 pounder after this fight,win lose or draw I think.

Calderon has to be on all P4P lists. He is THE definition of a P4P fighter,dominating 1 weight class,and moving up and fighting the best of the next weight class in his first fight. NOT skimming divisions or scraping the barrell with opponents,hand picking them. Even esquer,is a tough opponent.

All top 5 have these names in some order: Floyd,Manny,JMM,JC and B Hop. After that,for the next 5,these are the names which imo should be mentioned or are contenders for the next place:

Cotto
Calderon
Pavlik
Rafa
Vazquez(the winner of their fight will prob be number 5)
J Diaz(he has the weakest argument thus far because of a lack of big wins,lots of decent to good ones)
Winky Wright

Tayor is no pushover & INO has learned alot from the first fight! I wouldn't go and count my chickens before they hatch!