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I hope everyone that saw that film now knows why I think so highly of Joe Louis and how great of a champion he was. He had 4 years of his prime taken away (by VOLUNTEERING!!!) and was then persecuted by the IRS for the remaineder of his career, and he still managed to win 25 title defenses and THE FIGHT OF THE CENTURY vs Max Schmelling.
JOE LOUIS IS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT!
The Doc. will come on after the fight out here... So I havent seen it yet.
Really looking forward to it...
...it shows what a cunt Ali was to Joe Louis.
I understand their generations saw things differently but that's no reason to throw a hero under the bus the way he did.
Reagan did the right thing burrying Louis in Arlington...it took like 50 years but FINALLY a President did the right thing for Joe
He got the shaft Indeed.Whatever remains of that era and Its Government bureaucracy that were responsible for treating Louis like s!!! should lower there heads in shame.
Schmeling was not the only one used and turned out by his Gov and "leaders".
....all it took was a Presidential pardon....it's a shame no one had the guts to give him one!
I just watched it and thought it was tremendous...
What an inspiring yet sad story...
A great champion indeed...
Really don't see the generosity in doing something for a guy who's DEAD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Match,Thats just short bus. Yeh,Should have been set right at the moment but He was layed to rest where he deserved to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by match
The right thing to do is the right thing to do...even when no one is there to appreciate itQuote:
Originally Posted by match
It was a good doc. And it was on before and after the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
Considering Ali,and his friend Richard Pryor were calling for Joe to be pardoned in the late 70's
I dont see the under the bus part
Well Ali called him an Uncle Tom....well more "an Uncle Tom for the white man".Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
That controversial part of how Ali truly felt about Joe Louis makes it harder for me to respect him....I respect him (not a HUGE fan but I respect him) it just makes it hard to.
Joe Louis broke down barriers in a different way than Ali tried to and it seems to go unnoticed in this day and time as well as in the 60's.
Ali once whispered in his ear,when his time was nearing,"You,realy are the greatest"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I have heard things like that but I don't buy it because there was part of him that despised what Louis stood for when he should have been proud of what Louis did. I am not saying Ali should have adopted the same ways and manners of Louis but don't call him an Uncle Tom...it's not right to call a hero like Joe Louis an Uncle Tom and he should have known better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I didn't like what the track athletes did in Mexico City in 1968 either...they said Jesse Owens was an Uncle Tom too, he was also a hero and deserving of respect.
Those things upset me....there was no need to bring down the old heroes, just disagree and don't say they never stood for anything, because Joe Louis and Jesse Owens stood for alot!
They said nothing of the sort,they were both wearing opposite gloves to show a unified front,and if they both wore them it would be a left and a right all sides unifiedQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Where do you get this crap from man?
Dude honestly,get off the right wing sites,even ESPN debunked that last night
Here I'll spell it out for you RUSH LIMBAUGH LIES
I'd like to check the film out. I know that Louis really got the royal screwing from the Government. Unfortunately, public outrage and mindful politicians - LOL - never came to
his aid; in my estimation, Louis' contributions to the sport and country had no reciprocity in terms with being treated like the great man that he was; it's a very unfortunate and distressing story.
"He came under fire in 1968 for opposing a black American boycott of the Olympics, and for a time was derided as an "Uncle Tom" and a toady to white people. The charges stung Owens. He attempted to defend himself in a 1970 biography, Blackthink, but two years later he became more militant and published another book, I Have Changed."
- Jesse Owens: Biography and Much More from Answers.com
I don't make that stuff up or just throw it around without consideration. It's a FACT, he opposed a boycott of the '68 games and the Black Power spectacle at the games and was called names for it.
I do TRY to get my facts correct and Rush Limbaugh has fuck all to do with this
So it was the two black Olympians who were on the pedestal that were also boycotting the Olympics at that particular OlympicsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You got your names wrong,because it was the black power salute that caused all the fuss to this day
And it wasnt even supposed to be a black power salute
No I didn't get my facts wrong, they might have been misunderstood though.
#1 The Black Athletes were going to boycott the 1968 Summer Olympics due to the issues of segregation and Jim Crow Laws.
- Jesse Owens opposed this and didn't see how it would solve anything. That of course rubbed certain eliments of the Civil Rights Movement the wrong way...George Foreman caught the same flack for waving around American flags when he won a gold medal
#2 Tommie Smith (Gold) and John Carlos (Bronze) held up their fists in protest to the National Anthem of the United States of America
- Jesse Owens talked with them, tried to get them to appologize. He failed, they were kicked off the team for what they had done and in a meeting with them and there he was called an Uncle Tom and a toady for "the white man"
This has been American History 101 with your professor Lyle, thank you and goodnight ;)
Well Joe Luis wasn't perfect of course. He turned his back on Jack Johnson when he offered to help him for the first Schmeling fight.
And I'm not sure why not paying taxes makes someone a hero in America.
In the UK one of our greatest living jockey's Lester Piggot didn't pay his taxes and we threw his ass in jail and stripped him of his OBE
And talking about Luis being forced to fight beyond his prime, Piggot came back to race after prison and finally retired at 60!
Short bus my @ss, posthumous generocity, (let alone coming just days after someone's death who had been sh!t on the entire last half of his life), is self serving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Penning a letter a few weeks prior to the games, Smith wrote to legendary track and field star Jesse Owens. At the 1936 Berlin, Owens won four gold models and angered Adolf Hitler who had planned to show the world the racial superiority of his Aryan super athletes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
“I wrote Jesse just before his death to let him know how much I admired him and to let him know that I thought he was the greatest athlete of all time not just for winning but because he never made the big dogs in the Olympic committee - who were all Jim Crow –put him down as a black man.”
Do you check anything?
That doesn't disprove anything I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Yeah sure guys like Ali and Smith appologized later on. But like any young kid they ran off at the mouth against some really iconic figures and it shouldn't have happened. That's tough for me to respect...but yes later they corrected themselves.
Joe Louis turned down Jack Johnson's help because he couldn't be champion if he had ANYTHING to do with Johnson. Johnson was a great champion and flaunted his race and it rubbed people the wrong way and after he was beaten it set black fighters back....you think Sam Langford just chose never to get a title shot???
I do understand the level of frustration there probably was between the generations of Louis and Ali but that is no reason to call out someone for being an Uncle Tom.
Ali was a talkative guy and I am sure like anyone else he regrets saying certain things....I am by no means perfect but I don't have cameras in my face either. Ali had a platform to speak from and sometimes he said the wrong things....he corrected himself in later years though.
Bilbs, it's not because he didn't pay his taxes that made him a hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
The hero part is one thing. The not paying his taxes are another thing....
The issue with him and the taxes was that Joe during his services in the army was also using his own money for expenses with other members of the force. He did exibition bouts for FREE! from station to stations all around. Thousands of dollars from his own pocket.
Years later the IRS came after him for some money. They continued to be after his ass for years to come.
I think were agreeing here in the end.I could give two S!!!'s about reagan and /or his motives.The bottom line is A man and great as well as his family were given back a bit of respect that was lacking for way to long.Yeh,too late and a shame but well overdue non the less.Quote:
Originally Posted by match
I normaly don't agree with lyle to much he's right on this one.
anybody who like the joe louis documentry should check out the Jack Jonhson documentry. i think somebody has it on the file sharing board.
Where to start.....
I've seen a handful of documentarys. Emile Griffith, Jack Johnson, Wilfredo Gomez, SRR, George Foreman, Jack Dempsey, Robert Duran, Larry Holmes, ODLH, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Muhammad Ali etc. etc. etc.
But last nights doc. just hit a spot with me man... Emotions filled my game room as I sat there watching it. I was happy then I was sad and knodding my head my throat dried up and I had a lump for a better part of the show
I gotta say I've been discuted worst in other doc. like in the Resto-Collins Jr. doc. but last nights doc. just did it man... Seeing all those images of Joe as an elderly man and learning soooo much about what he went thru in the after effects drugs, alcohol, paranoiah.
All because the US used him as the poster boy and squeezed the life out of him for all it was worth. Some of those promotional videos and stuff they showed on Joe was crazy to see cause Joe looked like Ivan Drago as he talked. Very robotic, I mean Joe was given scripts and he was told what to say, how to sit, how to behave, what he can and can't do.
His time, money, thoughts, life was all used up he served his country and did what he could never asked for anything other then to treat his black people equally. I've always thought Jackie Robinson was the one black man who kicked the door down. After last night I learned that in reality it was Joe who did it 1st.
Because of him blacks where 1st allowed to play in a PGA golf invitantional so there would be no Tiger Woods if not for Joe. I did not know that I learned so much last night it's insane. The whole afternoon today I've been talking to myself about some of things I picked up from the doc.
I had read several things but wasn't too sure if they were true or not after last night a lot of things were confirmed to. Braddock getting a cut from Joe earnings for the rest of his career.
One thing that seems to happen with most of these boxers docs. I've seen is alcohol, women, drugs and speding issues always seem to be the downfall. Joe was no different and made lots of mistakes...
All in all it was a great documentary and I strongly recommend it to everyone.... :)
I hear ya bro, that's what I'm saying too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
IMO the hardest thing to hear/see in the doc. was the bit where Joe was inivited to be a 'special' referee for a wrestling match and the promoter came into the dressing room minutes before the event and told Joe that the IRS raided the box office and took his pay straight from there.
:( That shit! right hit a spot with me.... The man was just trying to live and pay the money then they went ahead and took his dignity by doing shit like that.
One thing that will forever live with me from the doc. is the following.
When asked by a friend why was he wrestling and doing side jobs he answered.
"It beats stealing" - Joe Louis
:appl: Fucken brilliant...
Great call.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boxer
Currenly halfway throught the Jack Johnson documentary. Fascinating insight.