Is David Haye the savior of the heavyweight division?

I'm wondering after his demolition of Macca, if Haye is the future of the HW Division. The guy is a MURDEROUS puncher at cruiser and quite honestly, I think he's probably been weight-drained the entire time. With an added 20-25 pounds on his frame, he'd most likely carry his power up to heavyweight. At 6'3, he's not all that tall but it wouldn't be a handicap, he'd be a decent size heavyweight. I could see him giving any one of the heavyweights a run for their money because of his speed and punching style. He almost reminds exactly of a 200 pound version of Andre Berto. I know his chin is a little questionable but I think it's more a product of him not being at the right weight a la Cotto @ 140. The kid is a future star IMO and along with Sam Peter is the type of fighter that heavyweight boxing needs. I don't really keep up with British boxing but this guy and JoeCal are making me pay more attention. What do you guys think?

I say if by bulked up to 215, he would not lose any speed off the delivery of his punches. Speed will be his money maker.

He would definitely do well, however, I think that Wlad would still have his number, Wlad is more desciplined, well schooled, and he is basically the natural heavyweight version of David Haye, both are fast, huge power, and more importantly immensely strong.

Definitely, I would fancy him against ANY heavyweight right now.

I have to respectfully disagree.

He put on a great show last night, but he is not the 'savior' of the heavyweight division.

Truth be told, there isn't a savior looming anywhere on the horizon right now for the heavies. Wlad is the closest thing we get, and he is flawed beyond repair. I love both Klitschkos, but Wlad will never be able to engage like the old days (without fear of getting sparked) and Vitali... well, if Vitali could make it through training camp without incident he could clean up, but I fear his best days are fast receeding into the sunet.

David Haye reminds me too much of Dominick Guinn.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

He would definitely do well, however, I think that Wlad would still have his number, Wlad is more desciplined, well schooled, and he is basically the natural heavyweight version of David Haye, both are fast, huge power, and more importantly immensely strong.

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Wlad has been on his ass 11 times through his career and if he was KO'd by Sanders and Brewster then imagine what David Haye will do to him when he lands a hayemaker as remmeber when Haye goes up to heavy he will be hitting harder than he was at cruiser and you seen what he did to Bonin at heavy.

Well i think it was 2 fights ago he dipped his toe at heavy and he looked the bizz.... speed was as fast as ever looked better than i had seen him look in a while and the extra weight suited him so for me he will fit in really well and make alot of noise...

cant remember who he was in against offhand and cba to look but i do remamber being well impressed with him and preformance at the time ;)

its no secret that he has been struggling to make the weight for years so we might just have something to rave about. :cool:

He is no HW division saviour...Haye has a lot of flaws in his style...Flaws that if he brought with him to the HW division he gets sparked...The biggest being the way he holds down his left hand.....Haye does not impress me....Sorry gents but you are all just so desperate for a HW you are willing to take anyone with a pulse

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The biggest being the way he holds down his left hand

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bit like that Lewis gif in your sig ;)

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Originally Posted by Saddo

bit like that Lewis gif in your sig ;)

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Oh hell mate I don't wish that shot on anyone...There were bad intentions and an example being made with that punch.....But thats the general idea of it anyhow

He was impressive but he look open. I just cant help but think if he keeps himself that open then wlad will spark him. But also if he connects then goodnight wlad.

He is a good fighter and might go far in the heavyweights.

The only thing is ..... every time I see him I wonder of he can reach his own cock with his mouth and give himself blowjobs.

The guy seriously is so self-satisfied, so smug and so in love with himself - that you KNOW he would do it if he could !!

:lickish:

Just my thoughts but this is what I see.
Haye will be a moderately sucessfull HW until he reaches the top 4 or 5 guys. From there,whichever he faces that has good technique and or chin,he is a goner. He is just too open with that left hand low and the power will be MUCH different than what he is used to regardless of his one HW experience. He fought a guy who was made for him that time. You just don't go dippin' your toes in the water without knowing how warm the temperature is. Haye will only accomplish messing up an already weak and distraught division by getting a big shot with the weakest guy available by using his popularity. Should he win a fight of that nature he will only cause more problems and add another name in the hat.
I support his bid as a HW ONLY if he works his way up and proves he can handle the jar.

Have not seen last night's fights yet (anyone want to help me out with that?) but from the sounds of it, it was the same old Haye and he just ran through Enzo.

I agree with Daxx though, he does have flaws and some unknowns. The first is that left hand. Again, didn't see last night but he usually leaves that thing carelessly low. Another thing that you always have to check with these type of fighters is how they react to getting moved backwards.

Haye tends to get flatfooted and doesn't do much side to side movement, I'm interested in seeing someone in the heavyweight ranks move him backwards. Hope he knows how because moving backwards with that left hand low is a recipe for disaster. And I have little doubt that someone like Sam Peter or even Wlad would be able to get him on the reverse.

Still, the best thing for the division, and maybe boxing, at this point is David Haye because he is an exciting fighter with the necessary skills to make a run for the top crown.

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Originally Posted by noskill

Just my thoughts but this is what I see.
Haye will be a moderately sucessfull HW until he reaches the top 4 or 5 guys. From there,whichever he faces that has good technique and or chin,he is a goner. He is just too open with that left hand low and the power will be MUCH different than what he is used to regardless of his one HW experience. He fought a guy who was made for him that time. You just don't go dippin' your toes in the water without knowing how warm the temperature is. Haye will only accomplish messing up an already weak and distraught division by getting a big shot with the weakest guy available by using his popularity. Should he win a fight of that nature he will only cause more problems and add another name in the hat.
I support his bid as a HW ONLY if he works his way up and proves he can handle the jar.

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Wel yeh he is open but he's cleaned up at cruiser and he carried his left hand low the entire time.

Don't go telling me that the heavies are better skilled to take advantage of that.

Maybe Wlad but then you could easily argue 'what would happen to wlad when haye catches him'

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Originally Posted by ono

Wel yeh he is open but he's cleaned up at cruiser and he carried his left hand low the entire time.

Don't go telling me that the heavies are better skilled to take advantage of that.

Maybe Wlad but then you could easily argue 'what would happen to wlad when haye catches him'

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The power he carries at CW does not mean it is the same power as a HW....Guys who are used to getting hit by..big 250lb punchers and getting hit by a guy who is strong at 195 is different...and anyone who does not think so needs to learn a bit more...

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Originally Posted by ono

Wel yeh he is open but he's cleaned up at cruiser and he carried his left hand low the entire time.

Don't go telling me that the heavies are better skilled to take advantage of that.

Maybe Wlad but then you could easily argue 'what would happen to wlad when haye catches him'

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The rest of that sentence should have been highlighted as well to finish my point. A dropped hand with more powerful guys usually spells disaster. There are plenty of fast HW's with good accuracy,although Haye can be hit with wild punches or just short ones.
I just want to see Haye work through some lesser fighter before getting a free ride in front of other contenders. These guys only fight once a year as it is,lol and I want some of the current guys to be established at wherever they belong,bottom or top so it clears out some. Adding a guy in and giving a free"front of the line" pass(we know he'd get one)will just delay putting all the crap talent where they belong. If he is better,let him work his way thru them,then call him a savior.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The power he carries at CW does not mean it is the same power as a HW....Guys who are used to getting hit by..big 250lb punchers and getting hit by a guy who is strong at 195 is different...and anyone who does not think so needs to learn a bit more...

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For what it's worth Danny Williams (sparring) says only Tyson and Vitali have hit him harder than Haye

I think Haye will add interest to the heavweight division but ulimatley his chin will prevent him from being a true force.

To be truly 'saved' the heavweight division needs more than one iconic exceptional fighter. It needs a bunch of very good similaraly matched fighters. Ali would not have been Ali without a a' big Ugly Bear' to beat at 21 or the trilogy with Frazier and the remarkable fight against the thought of unbeatable Foreman. It's the same at the lighter weights - Ray Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler became great because of the fights they had against each other and other quality opposition. Gatti-Ward - Barrera-Morrales you get the picture... To be a great fighter you have to be in great fights against great fighters.

I for one do not want to see an exceptional heavweight come along only to face poor opposition. We need strength in depth and only then in my eyes will we see a true resurgence in the heavweight division.

Haye at HW:if he carries his power,that's alot of guys done already. HOWEVER,his chin will get tested as will his stamina.It's 50-50.can't wait to see him v a top contender!If his chin is better due to not cutting weight( a la Cotto),,this guy could be deadly,and I'm not even a Haye fan!

Hay is the future of the heavyweight division. He is young enough and good enough to be the saviour.

When James Toney moved to Heavy i was preying he would clean up, just because he is such a character. On Inside Sport on the bbc monday night, Holyfields advice was for Haye not to just bulk up for the sake of it. but after listening to Haye after the fight it seems he is going to have alot of time off before his next fight (probably to mass up). we all know bodybuilders aint the best boxers in the world, does he mean he is going to let his body reach its natural weight? does anyone know why he is taking a long break?

I don't think Haye is the savior of the division, but I do think he's going to spice up the division and be a welcome addition to the weight class. Not only does he have an exciting style, but he also has an entertaining personality and he's not afraid to trash talk.

The key for Haye is to take his time moving up the division. He's only 27, no need to rush into a big fight too soon. He should take several fights to adjust to the bigger opponents and work his way up the ladder.

One good thing for him is that there are several fighters out there (Chagaev, Chambers, Povetkin, Ibragimov) that are only in the 215-220 pound range. Haye can test himself against guys of that size before thinks about challenging one of the big heavyweights.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

He is no HW division saviour...Haye has a lot of flaws in his style...Flaws that if he brought with him to the HW division he gets sparked...The biggest being the way he holds down his left hand.....Haye does not impress me....Sorry gents but you are all just so desperate for a HW you are willing to take anyone with a pulse

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I can't wait till Haye proves you wrong and knocks out your boy Klitchs "Scared to go for the" ko.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

He is no HW division saviour...Haye has a lot of flaws in his style...Flaws that if he brought with him to the HW division he gets sparked...The biggest being the way he holds down his left hand.....Haye does not impress me....Sorry gents but you are all just so desperate for a HW you are willing to take anyone with a pulse

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Agree with that...these are the kind of words I am talking about when people are describing Haye. Things like 'Saviour' etc are wayyy off the mark. He's an unknown entity when he is moving up to the heavyweight division. Its exciting thinking about him going there and the whole reason it's exciting is because of his flaws!
There are questions that need answering about his chin, defense, reflexes etc. that are going to be tested in a whole different way in the heavyweight division.
Would any of you bet your house that he is going to clean up at that division? If the answer is no then you certainly can't call him a saviour. If you mean he is going to create some excitement in a boring heavyweight division because you don't know how his fight's are gonna go, then maybe then you can call him a 'saviour'.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

I don't think Haye is the savior of the division, but I do think he's going to spice up the division and be a welcome addition to the weight class. Not only does he have an exciting style, but he also has an entertaining personality and he's not afraid to trash talk.

The key for Haye is to take his time moving up the division. He's only 27, no need to rush into a big fight too soon. He should take several fights to adjust to the bigger opponents and work his way up the ladder.

One good thing for him is that there are several fighters out there (Chagaev, Chambers, Povetkin, Ibragimov) that are only in the 215-220 pound range. Haye can test himself against guys of that size before thinks about challenging one of the big heavyweights.

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Couldn't have said it better..Sending some rep

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Originally Posted by leftylee

I can't wait till Haye proves you wrong and knocks out your boy Klitchs "Scared to go for the" ko.

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Where did he even mention Klitchsko's name in this thread? You didn't even argue against his point? Do you ever post anything constructive because i've yet to see it..?

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Originally Posted by Drago

When James Toney moved to Heavy i was preying he would clean up, just because he is such a character. On Inside Sport on the bbc monday night, Holyfields advice was for Haye not to just bulk up for the sake of it. but after listening to Haye after the fight it seems he is going to have alot of time off before his next fight (probably to mass up). we all know bodybuilders aint the best boxers in the world, does he mean he is going to let his body reach its natural weight? does anyone know why he is taking a long break?

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That is my concern also. If he bulked up to 230, it would slow him down. 215 would be perfect for him. He is a natural big puncher and does not need the extra baggage.

Buncy said that Haye was going to take 6 months off (sabbatical) and then go for the heavyweight titles. To break up the British merry go round of fighters would be a good start.

Is it true that Mormeck decked Haye in their match?

Looking at his record he's been stopped before and has suspect stamina and suspect chin but undeniable power(same critisism's of Wladimer Klit).

If he goes to heavyweight though I don't think he'll save anything, he may win a belt, but it will all end when he fights Klit. Im not a Klit fan but im not denying that Wladimer would outbox him in a boring fight or stop him late of a boring fight where they do not engage. Haye does good against fighters who would stand in front and want to trade, Wladimer would jab jab jab and stay away and I don't think if he lands solid that Haye could take it. Personally I think an on his game James Toney could beat Haye.


But as far as Haye's first heavyweight fight..i want it to be against John Ruiz :)

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The power he carries at CW does not mean it is the same power as a HW....Guys who are used to getting hit by..big 250lb punchers and getting hit by a guy who is strong at 195 is different...and anyone who does not think so needs to learn a bit more...

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That's true Daxx, but Haye could be, COULD BE the next Evander Holyfield.

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

That's true Daxx, but Haye could be, COULD BE the next Evander Holyfield.

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Holyfield didnt have a questionable chin or stamina.

I can understand some being skeptical about Haye but the main thing is that we have an exciting, fast, explosive fighter moving to Heavyweight and the division needs it, so whether you think he's gonna fail or succeed I'm sure it will be an entertaining ride.

As for me I know he is going to spark out Wladimir Klitschko and just about anyother Heavyweight out there. There is nothing much in the division apart from Povetkin.

Really can't wait for Haye's next fight but looks like we will have to wait til near the end of the year, can see it being hard for him to get opponents as nobody is really gonna want to fight him unless they have to.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

I can understand some being skeptical about Haye but the main thing is that we have an exciting, fast, explosive fighter moving to Heavyweight and the division needs it, so whether you think he's gonna fail or succeed I'm sure it will be an entertaining ride.

As for me I know he is going to spark out Wladimir Klitschko and just about anyother Heavyweight out there. There is nothing much in the division apart from Povetkin.

Really can't wait for Haye's next fight but looks like we will have to wait til near the end of the year, can see it being hard for him to get opponents as nobody is really gonna want to fight him unless they have to.

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People mistake "entertaining" for "skillfull" Nowadays. Just becuase Haye is exciting doesn't make him the savior of the division, he has a questionable chin and stamina thats not anything that should be overlooked.

But people overlook a fighters flaws in the wake of a spectacular fight but one person who wouldn't is his opponent. And at heavyweight I think Haye would have a lot of problems and turn out to be a herbie hide. A knockout here and there maybe even a title but shall fall against the truly skilled heavyweights like Wladimer

Im a big Haye fan but he has a questionable chin at Cruiserweight. Whats he going to do when he gets in there with a guy like Sam Peter of Wlad Klitchsko. Get knocked out, thats what I think he'll do.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

People mistake "entertaining" for "skillfull" Nowadays. Just becuase Haye is exciting doesn't make him the savior of the division, he has a questionable chin and stamina thats not anything that should be overlooked.

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Great point, it really is a shame that we often overhype the entertaining brawler and underrate the skillful boxer.

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

That's true Daxx, but Haye could be, COULD BE the next Evander Holyfield.

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No offense Von but when IO heard Haye and his team say in interview's he was going to be the next Holyfield I got nausious....Haye is no Evander or does he have half the skill a CW Holyfield had, Evander also had an Iron chin during that time...It took a mcuh bigger and harder hitting guy in Bowe to stop Holyfield...Evander is a rare breed...Haye does not have the chin, ability or heart of Evander

He won't be moving to take part in the next stage of Haye's career - that probably lies on the other side of the Atlantic, possibly with Don King, who promoted his last fight in Paris, when he won the title from Jean-Marc Mormeck. He was down in that fight before stopping Mormeck in the seventh - and King's step-son, Carl, who handled promotion, said later, "This kid's got everything. He can punch and he's chinny. The Americans will love that. He's a good looking kid. He brings what we want: excitement."



Haye's incredible journey continues as America beckons | Sport | Guardian Unlimited

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

No offense Von but when IO heard Haye and his team say in interview's he was going to be the next Holyfield I got nausious....Haye is no Evander or does he have half the skill a CW Holyfield had, Evander also had an Iron chin during that time...It took a mcuh bigger and harder hitting guy in Bowe to stop Holyfield...Evander is a rare breed...Haye does not have the chin, ability or heart of Evander

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Agree with this. If the heavyweight division had guys like Tyson/Bowe etc. Haye might just stay at cruiser for a while. He does have a chance against anybody there right now though because the heavyweight division is so lousy.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Agree with this. If the heavyweight division had guys like Tyson/Bowe etc. Haye might just stay at cruiser for a while. He does have a chance against anybody there right now though because the heavyweight division is so lousy.

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....always positive, this one