INO, Vitali has always been better than Wlad & seems to beat everyone that beat Wlad for Wlad! Dont get me wrong Wlad has good boxing skill, but Peter may beat him this time unless he faces Vitali & INO Vitali will KO Peter!
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INO, Vitali has always been better than Wlad & seems to beat everyone that beat Wlad for Wlad! Dont get me wrong Wlad has good boxing skill, but Peter may beat him this time unless he faces Vitali & INO Vitali will KO Peter!
Is this happening?
I still don't think Vitali ever makes it back in the ring and after such a long lay off, I definitely do not think it's a good idea to jump right in the ring with Peter who is no animal but definitely has the tools to capitalize on ring rust.
I think you mean Vitali beats those who beat Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSideX4
Vitali has been inactive & all those years of steroid abuse in the amateurs have taken their toll on Vitali's body (recurring injuries).
I think if that is Peters next fight he may beat Vitali.
"All those years of steroid abuse".....fuck off, he tested positive ONE TIME and now he's fucking Mr. Roids....you're fucking insane.
When it comes down to a Vitali-Sam Peter fight if Vitali is healthy he'll win if not then it's going to get ugly
Steroids are steroids. Testing positive once does not mean he only took them once!!! See how I didn't need to swear... it's called being an adult!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Testing positive once does not mean that Vitali used them all his life either....your reasoning is fucking stupid, it needs the cursing in there to describe just how poor your logic is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
Did I say all his life... don't remember that. You can quite easily use steroids for years without detection if their used properly. Did he test positive? Yes! Was it the 1st time he had used them? I doubt it... just the 1st time he got caught!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The only FACT that can be drawn from his ONE positive test is that he tested positive ONCE and therefore it's NOT a FACT that he did use them more than once or all his life....all that can be proven is the ONE TIME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
So assume if you want to but it doesn't make it a fact
I said it was a fact he tested positive!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I believe he took them for ages, but only got caught that once. Never said this was a fact.
No offence...but you are a bloody idiot!Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
All those years of steriod abuse? Like wtf?!!! As Lyle said it was ONE TIME! Years? Wtf.
And you know what the situation was? It was a doctor prescribing them to Vitali for a muscle problem, with Vitali unaware what exactly it was. The doctor even backed him up admitting to it.
When I read your quote...I was speechless...years of steroid abuse?! Seriously what the f*ck?! That's...that's friking ridiculous.
I think common sense would dictate, that if he got caught using steroids, he probably used them more then once. Also, his inability to finish training camp without an injury is consistent with someone who abused steroids earlier in their life.
I agree that consistent injury COULD mean that he abused steroids in the past, but it could just as easily be coincidence.. Jose Canseco, a baseball player to those who don't know him, was notorious for being 'Juiced' and stated that critics would constantly say that he was unable to play due to injury because of his roid abuse.. but the doctors agreed with him when he stated that if it wasn't for the steroid use he wouldn't have last as long as he did in the first place, so really it was the opposite.. he needed the roids to make him strong enough to overcome his ailments..Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
anyway, my point is that just cause he keeps getting injured doesn't necessarily mean it's due to the steroids.. I'm sure he used them more than once, but i don't know if i'd go as far as abusing them..
No offense but open your eyes to the real world! If I was a doctor & you threw me a couple a bucks I'd dance a jig & say want ever you wanted as well. Whats ridiculous is people trying to make excuses for cheating!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCKY_13
Of course Peter has a chance, a very very good one.
Vitali hasn't fought in over 3 years! Do people think he's just going to step in the ring and not show any rust?
I agree, if Vitali can stay healthy enough to get in the ring he's gonna have a lot to handle. I think Peter has a great shot at winning!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Not really. I am a registered fitness instructor with my speciality being in strength conditioning. Not putting myself in any position of power, but what I have learnt and what I know is that there are people who are more 'prone' to muscular injuries then others. Genetics? Who knows. Just to say that because he injures himself a fair few times does not mean he is a steroid user.Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
Who knows if he was cheating? Or if what I said was truth? It's a word of mouth and I choose to believe what he said and you don't. Except I'm pointing what was said and you are passing a personal judgement on a situation you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
I've had theories about the brothers though.
This is no judgement FOR or AGAINST the brothers. Vitali is like my No. 1 Ever!
But they are both doctors in philosophy or sports science. Vitali's speciality is sports science in boxing performance and Wlad's I can't remember.
I had a theory that since they are Dr.s that maybe...just MAYBE they were able to develop a substance that is like steriods that is maybe undetectable. Just saying...it is possible...I believe they would study and apply their studies a lot to boxing and such.
Another theory is, which I would do if I was them, that maybe Vitali constantly tried new ways to improve his power etc and thus this resulted in injuries. I mean if I had his knowledge, I would be constantly trying to improve myself with "What if I try this..."...."What if I do this differently..." Experimenting.
These are just theories of mine. Not a debate or nothing.
Why is everyone on Peter's bandwagon, He is scared to fight now...... He is not willing to mix it up. W.Klitschko and McCline ruined him. Klitschko will knock him out)WLad)
I know he tested positive. Not many athletes like to admit they were using intentionally.Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCKY_13
He tested positive for an illegal substance which in the sport of boxing is considered by many as cheating!
You were very quick to call me a "Blooding Idiot" which is very disrespectful considering it is my opinion. Then in a following post you say you have had theories... bit of a contradiction isn't it? Anyway you don't need to be rude, it takes an adult to debate rationally
And he only tested positive one time and therefore saying that it proves he used the drug intentionally or multiple times or uses the drug still to this day just from the one failed test is an assumption...it's based on what you have created in your mind and not on solid evidence or facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
Sure everything you post COULD be true but it's not wise to just had out judgement on everyone just because they fail one test because not every case is the same.
I am sure that there are plenty of people that have used steroids and have never tested positive.
I think it would be better for boxing if Peter trashes his wbc trinket and fight Wlad to finally create an undisputed heavyweight champion again. The sport needs that.
And Vitali can fight the #2 wbc contender for the wbc trinket. That way boxing will have an undisputed heavyweight champion,(most likely Wlad) and vitali still gets a paper title that he wants.
I think it's just as naive to assume that the first time a drunk driver is arrested is the first time he was caught. Sure, he was caught only once and that's where it ends so far as the facts go, but I don't buy anybody who says their doctor prescribed them something and they didn't know what it was. That would be beyond irresponsible on both parties parts to the point of not being believed.
To piggy back on your comment, in college, I used to catch shop lifters for a retail store. When caught, almost everyone of them would swear it was the first time they ever stole anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
Apparently, some members of this forum would naively buy that explanation.
On those same lines, do you believe that James Toney only used steroids twice: the two times he was caught.
When someone is definitively caught cheating by an objective test, they lose the "benefit of the doubt."
I was willing to give Toney the benefit of the doubt after the first time. He didn't get ripped overnight and he had been plagued by injuries. I thought he might have taken something just to heal his body, but after the 2nd time. Hell, he's stupid for not turning that fat into muscle and my esteem in him has plummeted.
Vitali needs to stay retired for good.
Exactly. Hadn't heard about this failed test before, but it's turned my opinion against Vitali for good.Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
The vast majority of drugs cheats plead ignorance, after all, prison is full of people who didn't do it. As a PhD in sports science his pleading of ignorance is even more ridicilous.
I hadn't even thought of that, but you're absolutely right. That makes Klitschko's claim of 'innocence' even more unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
I think it's just as stupid to assume that the first time someone gets caught for something it means they have been doing it all along or multiple times since then...sure it might occur that way most of the time but it's still an assumption either way and what I was saying was the only FACT there is about Vitali using steroids is one failed test over 10 years ago while Vitali was an amateur boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
....I also think it's ignorant for everyone to assume a PhD means that you have any kind of understanding about medicine or steroids specifically. Vitali has a PhD in Sports Science which is basically the study more of diet, body types, exercises, nutrition, motor control, biomechanics, physiology, psychology, etc.....no where does it say anything about chemistry or pharmacology.
To take one test and fail it before your professional career starts and to have people dislike you for it is a little strong....he's been tested several times since then and hasn't failed one since...I think that deserves more credit than the one failed test. If he used again he would have been caught by now.
Vitali (that fought LL) is in a different league to any current Heavyweight including his brother (who is the current best imo)
Had it not been for injury I think he would be undisputed champion today and not have come even close to losing.
I never said being caught proves he used intentionally, or multiple times & no one has said he's using to this day. The fact is he tested positive which is considered cheating whether he knew about it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I don't know if he's used them since getting caught & frankly I don't care. But it is my opinion that through his kick boxing career & up until he was caught he had used them more than the once. Years can be anything more than one year & his kick boxing & amateur career combined was longer than a year, hence my terming it years of abuse
But your rightif used correctly you shouldn't be caught, but it doesn't change the fact that Vitali did.
So you think he used them throughout his amateur and kickboxing career?
That is still a lot to assume given the one failed test.
It's a fair assumption to make, as one of the others said, you lose the benefit of the doubt the second you're caught. The only thing that makes me slightly forgive him is that due to the lax testing system in boxing there must be many others who haven't been caught, unfortunately boxing isn't as vigilant as it should be like athletics and cycling have become.
No assumption is fair to make....sure the court of public opinion doesn't have many rules but if you're making a case against Vitali then you're not going to win anyone over with that argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Shane Mosley, Roy Jones Jr., Fernando Vargas, James Toney, etc would also be guilty of doping AS PROFESSIONALS if your assumptions are to be followed
It's the point I was trying to make, Vitali shouldn't be singled out due to all the other guys, what I'm pissed about is the general lax attitude towards drug taking within the sport. The attitude SHOULD be to have instant lengthy bans and the fighters to be responsible for what's in their system, and the attitude of the fans SHOULD be to instantly shun the fighters once they're caught, only then could it have the smallest chance to be eradicated.
Well improving testing is fine with me but let's not go crazy and weed out everyone like Vitali who maybe made a mistake in judgement or as an amateur.
Boxing is a sport of second chances, just ask Tyson and James Toney
Mosley was suspected but unlike the others you mentioned he never tested positive. You can throw Holyfield on that list too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you test positive you should be banned for life, that is my opinion on the matter. Come HOF time I hope they take that into consideration.
Vitali tested positive theres no case to make it's black & white... as for prior or continued use thats down to ones opinion
BALCOQuote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
Shane Mosley had ties to BALCO...same as Marion Jones and Kellie White both admitted using steroids later on. So it doesn't look good for Shane and Shane as a PROFESSIONAL....that puts his entire career in question!
Vitali has never tested positive as a pro and hasn't been working with anyone who is involved in steroids.
I know but he never returned a positive test as a pro or an amateur, Vitali did! But i agree there is a black cloud hanging over his career. As should there be over Jones, Vargas, Toney among othersQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
...that's all I am saying, if you're talking down about Vitali's career then you have to lump in a ton of fighters.
Yeah I do, I ain't talking down Vitali's career, I just believe there maybe a connection between his injuries & prior steroid use. But at the end of the day thats just my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle