Some thoughts on Hatton.

I'm a huge Hatton fan. Have been for a long time, always will be. But recently there have been a few things bothering me. I have always disapprovd of Hatton's lifestyle choices; he is a gifted athlete and I feel he is abusing his natural abilities. His lifestyle has had a negative effect on his career in the past, which is as unprofessinal for a boxer as it is for any profession.

However, my primary concern is not with his issues outside of training it is the issues within the camp that concern me.
Matthew Macklin was a decent amateur boxer who prided himself on his skill. Having adopted the Phoenix gym as his gym he had a happy relationship there, getting on well with all the fighters and trainers. However, before his fight with Campas he left, because he was dissatisfied with the gym's mentality. It seems that Billy Graham has adopted a "physicality first" approach and subsequently neglecting boxing skill.

To relate this to hatton I must delve into objective history.
At the begininning of his career Hatton was a phenomenom. His speed, aggression and skill allowed him to scythe through Britains ranks and he became a domestic hero. When he went Internationl, he was equally effective, putting on marvellous performances against durable opposition like Ben Tackie and Eamonn Magee.
This trend continued until Hatton met Kostya Tszyu. In this fight he adjusted tactics, formulating a bold plan with trainer Billy Graham. To negate Tszyu's formidable power with physicality and muffle his right hand. This plan was perfect in defeating Kostya, but the issue lies in the adoption of this strategy in every fight.

Since the Tszyu fight many have felt that Hatton has digressed. I feel he has not digresseed he simply has adopted incorrect tactics. He has used the style he usd to beat Tszyu against younger more mobile opponents and as a reult has expended mounds of energy unnecessarily.
It seems to me Graham has fallen in love with this gunfight style and insists on it's implementation. However, in reality, Ricky would best be served returning to his slicker "aggresive counterpunching" style which he employed before Tszyu.

Ricky's a great guy and a great fighter, but he needs to adjust once more.
Malignaggi and Lazcano would be perfect fights in which to adjust. Two fightewrs he can out muscle and have no reservations about their power.
I want to se Ricky box again, I want to see him set himself up for his once famed body shots rather than simply muscling forward.

He is my favourite active fighter and will be until he retires, but I am very frustrated by this.

I must admit I've never been a big Ricky Hatton fan, not his fighting style at least anyway.

It's always easy to say a fighters skilla are eroding or they are losing what made them great but it also usually coincides with them stepping up in class.

Ricky fought a lot of jobbers and old formely decent fighters prior to Tyszu with one or two excepetions, Magee who floored him and gave him a tough fight, and Tackie who also gave him a hard fight.

I just think he was never an elite level fighter. He's very good but the reason he hasn't looked excellent in any fight since Tyszu is because he's not that much better than the fighters he's faced.

He's a very good fighter but not elite imo.

Well Bilbo, looks like it's just me n you on the board today!

I feel it's a common misconception that Hatton's style is what we see now.
Granted many fighters adjust when they reach the elite in order to cope with the huge jump in power and skill at the top, but Hatton has no problem dealing with these. Billy Graham merely sees the roughouse tactic as a good strtegy, when in reality it is not the best tactic for every fighter.

I'll be honest, if it were anyone but Ricky, I'DD BE DISRESPECTING THEIR STYLE, BUT IT'S ONLY BECAUSE i'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND OVER THE YEARS HIS CAPABILITIES AND i KNOW THAT HE IS ACTUALLY LIMITING HIMSELF USING THIS TACTIC.

Sorry about the Caps, the button is broken:rolleyes:

Did you see him when interviewed at the fight the other night? He seemed half-pissed.. which i guess aint surprising anymore

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Did you see him when interviewed at the fight the other night? He seemed half-pissed.. which i guess aint surprising anymore

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I was sitting behind him;)

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Well Bilbo, looks like it's just me n you on the board today!

I feel it's a common misconception that Hatton's style is what we see now.
Granted many fighters adjust when they reach the elite in order to cope with the huge jump in power and skill at the top, but Hatton has no problem dealing with these. Billy Graham merely sees the roughouse tactic as a good strtegy, when in reality it is not the best tactic for every fighter.

I'll be honest, if it were anyone but Ricky, I'DD BE DISRESPECTING THEIR STYLE, BUT IT'S ONLY BECAUSE i'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND OVER THE YEARS HIS CAPABILITIES AND i KNOW THAT HE IS ACTUALLY LIMITING HIMSELF USING THIS TACTIC.

Sorry about the Caps, the button is broken:rolleyes:

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Yeah Kat was here briefly, I enjoyed a fleeting moment with her but she's gone again, probably not to appear for another week. :(

You probably know many times more about him than I do to be fair. I've never particularly followed him. Nice guy, but has never interested me in the ring.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Did you see him when interviewed at the fight the other night? He seemed half-pissed.. which i guess aint surprising anymore

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I was sitting behind him;)

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Was Keiron Fallon there?

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Did you see him when interviewed at the fight the other night? He seemed half-pissed.. which i guess aint surprising anymore

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I was sitting behind him;)

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Lol bet you could smell it on him :p

I actually will claim this one. I know a fair bit about Hatton, and it has sadened me to see him neglect his talent lately.

I've met a fair few fighters and was never fazed.
I was nervous when I met Ricky, shows how far ahaead he is on my list of favourites I guess!

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Did you see him when interviewed at the fight the other night? He seemed half-pissed.. which i guess aint surprising anymore

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I was sitting behind him;)

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Lol bet you could smell it on him :p

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Heineken:D


Fenster:
I didn't actually see Keiron there, may have been

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I'm a huge Hatton fan. Have been for a long time, always will be. But recently there have been a few things bothering me. I have always disapprovd of Hatton's lifestyle choices; he is a gifted athlete and I feel he is abusing his natural abilities. His lifestyle has had a negative effect on his career in the past, which is as unprofessinal for a boxer as it is for any profession.

However, my primary concern is not with his issues outside of training it is the issues within the camp that concern me.
Matthew Macklin was a decent amateur boxer who prided himself on his skill. Having adopted the Phoenix gym as his gym he had a happy relationship there, getting on well with all the fighters and trainers. However, before his fight with Campas he left, because he was dissatisfied with the gym's mentality. It seems that Billy Graham has adopted a "physicality first" approach and subsequently neglecting boxing skill.

To relate this to hatton I must delve into objective history.
At the begininning of his career Hatton was a phenomenom. His speed, aggression and skill allowed him to scythe through Britains ranks and he became a domestic hero. When he went Internationl, he was equally effective, putting on marvellous performances against durable opposition like Ben Tackie and Eamonn Magee.
This trend continued until Hatton met Kostya Tszyu. In this fight he adjusted tactics, formulating a bold plan with trainer Billy Graham. To negate Tszyu's formidable power with physicality and muffle his right hand. This plan was perfect in defeating Kostya, but the issue lies in the adoption of this strategy in every fight.

Since the Tszyu fight many have felt that Hatton has digressed. I feel he has not digresseed he simply has adopted incorrect tactics. He has used the style he usd to beat Tszyu against younger more mobile opponents and as a reult has expended mounds of energy unnecessarily.
It seems to me Graham has fallen in love with this gunfight style and insists on it's implementation. However, in reality, Ricky would best be served returning to his slicker "aggresive counterpunching" style which he employed before Tszyu.

Ricky's a great guy and a great fighter, but he needs to adjust once more.
Malignaggi and Lazcano would be perfect fights in which to adjust. Two fightewrs he can out muscle and have no reservations about their power.
I want to se Ricky box again, I want to see him set himself up for his once famed body shots rather than simply muscling forward.

He is my favourite active fighter and will be until he retires, but I am very frustrated by this.

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I agree with that about falling in love with the style used to beat Kostya. I thought when Macklin lost to Moore he was fighting like a crazy Hatton clone too.

Although I do believe Hatton has "lost" it.. so you'll never get the "old" Hatton back and you wont see any major improvements.

Smashing Lazcano around the ring will help convince many he's "back"...:rolleyes:

It's a definite possbility at his age:(

However, I feel he could actually elongate his career by returning to his old style.

The mugging style does not work against everybody and I feel it could actually be exploited by Malignaggi

The best i have seen Hatton (since the Kostya fight) was the 1st 6 rounds against Urango.

That's how he used to fight. He was very good. Ok Urango is limited but he was the champion and he was dangerous with his strength and power.

I just feel that he has been weary of his opponents power at world class level. That's why he has altered his style.

He's just closed the distance as quickly as possible which has led to a lot of tying up and holding.

This is for 2 reasons i believe

A) He doesn't want to stand off against more skilled fighters (collazo, mayweather)

B) He's wary of his opponents power and doesn't want them to get any leverage on their punches (Tszyu, Urango, Castillo)


While he's still fighting world class fighters, we won't see the old Hitman which is a shame because the old Hitman was a better fighter imo.

I agree about the first six rounds Ono.

I believe however, they've adopted the new strategy saying "it worked against Tszyu."
However styles make fights and this means the tactic will have varying levels of usefullness in each fight with each unique opponent.

I can't tell you how happy I was during the Urango fight "Yes Rickys back on form!" but then he dredged it out in the trenches

What I'm not sure Graham realises is that with that style, the physical demands are greater as he uses every ounce of muscle he has, and he is also shortening Hatton's career

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Originally Posted by ono

The best i have seen Hatton (since the Kostya fight) was the 1st 6 rounds against Urango.

That's how he used to fight. He was very good. Ok Urango is limited but he was the champion and he was dangerous with his strength and power.

I just feel that he has been weary of his opponents power at world class level. That's why he has altered his style.

He's just closed the distance as quickly as possible which has led to a lot of tying up and holding.

This is for 2 reasons i believe

A) He doesn't want to stand off against more skilled fighters (collazo, mayweather)

B) He's wary of his opponents power and doesn't want them to get any leverage on their punches (Tszyu, Urango, Castillo)


While he's still fighting world class fighters, we won't see the old Hitman which is a shame because the old Hitman was a better fighter imo.

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I agree that Hatton looked wonderful in the first 6. He was boxing beautifully. Nice combinations, not looking to mug his way on the inside. The Kostya fight was great but very ugly. It was a case of it being the right fight for that situation though. Hatton has blown cold more often than not since Kostya. It could have been much better with the correct approach ie self discipline and realising that a boxing career is finite and there is plenty of time to eat bacon butties when its over! Of course, he trained hard for Floyd, but I dont think the strategy was there at all really....on reflection.

Reflection should be a key aspect to any comeback off of a knockout loss. And I hope Ricky is able to do that. Of course, I will support Ricky in his fights and this is one he should win with ease. It would be nice to see an evolution or development of some sort though because any step back into the big time afterwards will demand it.

If Ricky can return, within a renewed focus toward boxing carefully, he could elongate his career as Barrera did.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I agree about the first six rounds Ono.

I believe however, they've adopted the new strategy saying "it worked against Tszyu."
However styles make fights and this means the tactic will have varying levels of usefullness in each fight with each unique opponent.

I can't tell you how happy I was during the Urango fight "Yes Rickys back on form!" but then he dredged it out in the trenches

What I'm not sure Graham realises is that with that style, the physical demands are greater as he uses every ounce of muscle he has, and he is also shortening Hatton's career

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Yeh i agree with what you're saying. Especially the bit in bold. In the Tszyu fight they primarily looked to close the distance as quickly as possible. He was wary of getting caught in no man's land.*

He hasn't changed his gameplan really in any fight since then (other than the 1st 6 against Urango). This was especially evident against Mayweather. Hatton's speed actually surprised Mayweather and it allowed him to close the distance and cut off the ring quite easily. Trouble was, it looked like they hadn't devised a plan of what to do once he got inside.

He kept throwing a straight right which was going over Mayweather's head (as he was ducking down below his waist - which is illegal). He kept missing with it, but he still kept throwing it. Everytime he threw it, they would end up clinching, Mayweather would mug him, push him off and then open up. This lead to Hatton being caught in 'no-man's land.'*

Thing is, we are going to see the same thing against Lazcano. Fortunately Lazcano won't be good enough to take advantage of it.



* By 'no-man's land' i actually mean standing in range directly in front of his opponent (but standing too far away to hit and hold)

Completely agree Ono!

It was the perfect blueprint for beating Tszyu, but as with Ali and the rope a dope and it's use against Foreman, its not perfect for every fight; as Ali found out against the much more acute punching Frazier.

Against Maywether, Hatton's aggresive boxing could have been far more effective, if he got inside Mayweather's reach and used his own flurries. Instead he walked straight into the best fighter in the world.

I'm not dissing my favourite fighter, I'm just hoping for his own sake, he uses his own old style against Lazcano, in order to make the job easier on himself and perhaps allow him a few extra fights in the long run.

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Originally Posted by ono

The best i have seen Hatton (since the Kostya fight) was the 1st 6 rounds against Urango.

That's how he used to fight. He was very good. Ok Urango is limited but he was the champion and he was dangerous with his strength and power.

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yeah i think the same mate Rick won nearly every round with both styles but he did say afterward he nearly had to go down on the knee as that shot ((body shot i think)) hit the mark with him and i guess thats why he done the hit and hold stuff because the only time Urango was catching him was on the way out so he stopped going out.

the Castillo fight was a classic and great win for Ricky but he took some scary shots in that one but with Castillo's weight issues i just wonder how good of a win that was with hinsight.

Bilbo brought up the point of it always coinsides with a step up in class and maybe that is the only way he can do it in the high levels and thats why he lost against Mayweather because of the ref not letting him do it....

but hey its made him a millionaire so its prob not a great idea to change anything that has brought him soo much success in the past ;)

look what Manny Steward did to Naz's style... if it ain broke don't fix it ;)

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Originally Posted by Saddo

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Originally Posted by ono

The best i have seen Hatton (since the Kostya fight) was the 1st 6 rounds against Urango.

That's how he used to fight. He was very good. Ok Urango is limited but he was the champion and he was dangerous with his strength and power.

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yeah i think the same mate Rick won nearly every round with both styles but he did say afterward he nearly had to go down on the knee as that shot ((body shot i think)) hit the mark with him and i guess thats why he done the hit and hold stuff because the only time Urango was catching him was on the way out so he stopped going out.

the Castillo fight was a classic and great win for Ricky but he took some scary shots in that one but with Castillo's weight issues i just wonder how good of a win that was with hinsight.

Bilbo brought up the point of it always coinsides with a step up in class and maybe that is the only way he can do it in the high levels and thats why he lost against Mayweather because of the ref not letting him do it....

but hey its made him a millionaire so its prob not a great idea to change anything that has brought him soo much success in the past ;)

look what Manny Steward did to Naz's style... if it ain broke don't fix it ;)

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Yeh i agree it's too late to try fix it now anyway. It's how he has fought for the last 3 years.

I think fighting welterweights (Collazo and Mayweather) combined with the step up in class has something to do with him using the Tszyu style.

Good point ono, it's an efective technique for hassling bigger men, he's just got stuck in the use of it now!

Maybe now that he's done flirting with 147 division he can get back to his old self. It's possible that Ricky was adopted that style to deal with KT, and he kept at it because he knew that he'd be moving up against bigger, more powerful men and that style would give him the best chance. Now that he's done with that experiment, he'll have the chance to get just be the best LWW that he can be. There isn't a LWW out there right now with the power the KT had, and I'm not sure that will be a good style for beating Paulie, who is the guy he needs to fight now.

The style he used against KT, is a poor style when approaching fights with Malignaggi and Witter.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

The style he used against KT, is a poor style when approaching fights with Malignaggi and Witter.

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I think that's the style he'll use against Witter....mainly because it will keep him out of trouble, and his workrate and skills on the inside should be enough to get the W on points. He needs to be more careful coming in against Witter tho, otherwise he'll take some powerful shots.

Against Paulie, i feel his pressure will be more educated. Paulie is quite slick but not very powerfully built or particularly hard to hit, so his old style would be very useful....if he uses it.

Hatton mite be made to look like a plodding forward fool against PM if he isnt on top of his game.He has the speed to make Hatton miss but lacks power which i think that will be his downfall.I see Hatton getting in close around the 3rd and just out working Malignaggi to take a UD.

In actuality Hatton's footwork is among some of the fastest in Boxing, he can cut off a ring as well as anyone I've ever seen.

If Hatton had the footspeed to cut of the ring and bring the fight to Mayweather, he can do it against Paulie and Witter. The problem for Hatton was that when he put Floyd in a position where he had to fight, Floyd and the skill and power to negate Ricky's pressure. Witter has some power, but Paulie has ZERO. Ricky can walk through his shot with little to fear. Ricky will be able to bring the fight to either Witter or Paulie, it's up to him to do the right things once he does.

The weak link for me is clearly Billy Graham. I mean if Matthew Macklin left him for a MAYWEATHER of all people!!!! Then that to me is saying something. Coupled with the fact that he mentioned he hadn't been progressing with Graham and he learnt so much more from the Mayweathers. Like someone already said, he thinks that he's a genius since he formulated that plan to beat KT but not everybody fights like he does.

Matthew Macklin didn't go to Mayweather, he went to McGirt

There comes a point in every trainers career where they stop trying to make their fighters improve and just train them at what they are good at and count on their talent to do the rest. But hatton can't switch trainers so.

It was reported that Macklin did go to Mayweather although he may now be with McGirt.

Good thread.

I always thought of Hatton as a sort of Barry McGuigan type fighter - solid, honest pro, very good going forward, good offensive arsenal, lots of heart - but he can't alter his style easily (not many can!) and I genuinely disapprove of his lack of professionalism in ballooning in weight between fights ... if you are a pro fighter, you should be a full-time pro fighter - like Hopkins, Hagler etc - and not just a 'binge trainer'?

I rate Hatton as a world class, very very good fighter indeed ..... but not a 'great' fighter.

Good bloke though - and I really can;t see him ending up as one of boxing's tragedies?

Hatton is a great fighter. Thing is, he just couldn't handle sharp elbows. I don't blame him though.

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Originally Posted by JLAQ

Hatton is a great fighter. Thing is, he just couldn't handle sharp elbows. I don't blame him though.

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Even if floyd wasnt using his elbows he would of still won.I feel it would of been abit closer if Hatton was alowed to work on the inside but PBF would of still won.

The rematch might be abit different cause in uk he will be aloud to get on the inside but i still see Floyd winning.

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Originally Posted by littlebif

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Originally Posted by JLAQ

Hatton is a great fighter. Thing is, he just couldn't handle sharp elbows. I don't blame him though.

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Even if floyd wasnt using his elbows he would of still won.I feel it would of been abit closer if Hatton was alowed to work on the inside but PBF would of still won.

The rematch might be abit different cause in uk he will be aloud to get on the inside but i still see Floyd winning.

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No, Floyd's unbridled use of sharp elbows with the ref preventing Hatton from doing what he does best are very big factors that could very well change the outcome of a fight.

Hatton was doing ok despite what PBF was getting away (even tho he never got a round on the judges cards which was harsh) untill he had a point deducted then Hatton lost his head and then Floyd took total control.

elbows or not, Haton was doing fuck all on the inside against Floyd, in terms of landing punches anyway. Cortez was embarrassing, but all he's acutally achieved is give SOME delusional Hatton fans something to cling on.

Hatton's a very good fighter but not great, and this bullshit with Witter is seriously damaging his legacy.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

elbows or not, Haton was doing fuck all on the inside against Floyd, in terms of landing punches anyway. Cortez was embarrassing, but all he's acutally achieved is give SOME delusional Hatton fans something to cling on.

Hatton's a very good fighter but not great, and this bullshit with Witter is seriously damaging his legacy.

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The one thing that was very disappointing from Hatton was that he didn't do his homework to the body at all.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Bomp

elbows or not, Haton was doing fuck all on the inside against Floyd, in terms of landing punches anyway. Cortez was embarrassing, but all he's acutally achieved is give SOME delusional Hatton fans something to cling on.

Hatton's a very good fighter but not great, and this bullshit with Witter is seriously damaging his legacy.

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The one thing that was very disappointing from Hatton was that he didn't do his homework to the body at all.

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I agree, so fuckin annoying he didn't throw any of his trademark body shots, he just rushed in there.