Don't you think he owes Santa Cruz a rematch? The WBC even called for an immediate rematch for his interim belt. I know we all want one champion, but its wrong that after the robbery he gets ignored.
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Don't you think he owes Santa Cruz a rematch? The WBC even called for an immediate rematch for his interim belt. I know we all want one champion, but its wrong that after the robbery he gets ignored.
Yeah Santa Cruz should get another title shot.
Personally I think Casamayor, Campbell, David Diaz and Santa Cruz are the guys who can reasonably stake a claim to being the divisions champion.
I imagine Casa and Diaz will both fight over Pacquaio, Barrera and maybe Marquez whilst Campbell might get frozen out and need to face Santa Cruz.
Then we should just be a fight or two away from having a universally recognised champ.
Call me crazy but I actully think David Diaz may stun everybody with a win over Pacquaio and then another win over Cambell or Casamayor.
He's underatted imo.
i agree, he should rematch cruz.
Campbell, Casamayor and Santa Cruz I can understand, but how exactly does Diaz stake a claim to being the division's champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
He won a interim title (against Santa Cruz btw, but he didnt exactly have a claim to the title at that point) which was somehow awarded a full title ahead of Casamayor. He then robs Erik Morales, who was hardly the division's champ either, before finally defeating Ramon Montano on a MD last week.
I haven't seen Diaz' last fight, so he might have looked like the shit for all I know, but I still don't get what merits him having a stake of the title?
He's terrible. I'm willing to rep bet with you that Pac whoops him. In fact, if you ever put him in there with Juan Diaz, David would get KTFO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm not saying he can stake a claim to being the champion, I'm saying he deserves a fight against Casamayor and Campbell as much as Santa Cruz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel_KCampbell, Casamayor and Santa Cruz I can understand, but how exactly does Diaz stake a claim to being the division's champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
He won a interim title (against Santa Cruz btw, but he didnt exactly have a claim to the title at that point) which was somehow awarded a full title ahead of Casamayor. He then robs Erik Morales, who was hardly the division's champ either, before finally defeating Ramon Montano on a MD last week.
I haven't seen Diaz' last fight, so he might have looked like the shit for all I know, but I still don't get what merits him having a stake of the title?
He's another belt holder and let's be honest this division is in a complete state of flux right now. Casa looked like shat against Santa Cruz, Cambell was in no man's land only a couple weeks ago and Santa Cruz has never even held the title and got knocked out by Diaz.
None of these four can really lay claim to being the division's best but all four of them deserve a chance to fight for that chance.
The Morales fight was close and competitive, it could have gone either way, it was certainly no robbery. Adding in that Diaz knocked out Santa Cruz prior to that he has as much right for a unification fight as Casa, Campbell and Santa Cruz imo.
Diaz WILL give Manny problems if they fight. He's a relentless pressure fighter with a great chin. He's never been legitimately stopped and although down a couple times always gets up and keeps moving forward. If Pacquaio's power doesn't carry to 135 and I think it's entirely possible that it may not, Diaz could be a nightmare for him in the same way Campbell was for Juan Diaz.
I never understood why he gets so much hate to be honest, only one loss, against a very slick Kendall Holt in a premature stoppage, two wins over Zab Judah in a great amatuer career and wins in the pro ranks over Santa Cruz and Morales.
Sure he's limited and would be no match for a prime Casamayor or a Manny Pacquaio in his natural weight class but imo he's well positioned to cause a couple upsets right now.
He's still very much a factor in this division.
I'll take a rep bet that if Daiz and Manny fight it will be a really tough fight for Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnHe's terrible. I'm willing to rep bet with you that Pac whoops him. In fact, if you ever put him in there with Juan Diaz, David would get KTFO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Close points win at best
Tell you what, as the bet is clearly in my favour (Manny being the clear favourite), I'll bet you 100 rep points that Diaz doesn't hear the final bell. I'm going for the Manny KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI'll take a rep bet that if Daiz and Manny fight it will be a really tough fight for Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnHe's terrible. I'm willing to rep bet with you that Pac whoops him. In fact, if you ever put him in there with Juan Diaz, David would get KTFO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Close points win at best
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnTell you what, as the bet is clearly in my favour (Manny being the clear favourite), I'll bet you 100 rep points that Diaz doesn't hear the final bell. I'm going for the Manny KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI'll take a rep bet that if Daiz and Manny fight it will be a really tough fight for Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Close points win at best
Ok you're on :cool:
Ok so even if Manny takes a points win, the points are yours. Not that it matters because its rare I'm wrong. I'm the only guy who picked Phillips to win last night!Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnTell you what, as the bet is clearly in my favour (Manny being the clear favourite), I'll bet you 100 rep points that Diaz doesn't hear the final bell. I'm going for the Manny KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Ok you're on :cool:
[quote=Bilbo;488574][quote=Mikkel_K;488569]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Bilbo, I loved all of your comments, but you can't be serious about David Diaz...? Early decision? I'm looking for the video right now. Diaz was outclassed that fight, and it is that crude style that will keep him in the L column against all the top Ltwts. Good that he gets some 'up in weight' money.
I' sorry, but I thought you said just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI'm not saying he can stake a claim to being the champion, I'm saying he deserves a fight against Casamayor and Campbell as much as Santa Cruz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel_KCampbell, Casamayor and Santa Cruz I can understand, but how exactly does Diaz stake a claim to being the division's champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
And while I don't think Diaz is (as) bad (as people make him), I disagree that he is as deserving of a shot as the others. David Diaz might be a belt holder, but he has never defeated anyone with a belt. Nor has he ever defeated a top lightweight for that matter (especially not if you discount the Morales fight (and while I agree robbery was too strong a word, I will maintain that Morals should have got the decision)).
Should he defeat Pac, he would be an obvious guy in the mix, but as for now, he has as much claim to be at the top as Juan Diaz.
[quote=ArawakWarria;488593][quote=Bilbo;488574]Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel_K
You mean the premature stoppage against Holt? I have no argument in that Diaz was losing that fight, he did indeed get totally outclassed just as he was outclassed against Santa Cruz.
But its worth noting that he still put Holt down in the 7th and knocked Santa Cruz out.
I'm not suggesting for an instant that Diaz is anywhere near the class and pedigree of Pacquaio or a prime Casamayor,
But he does have tremendous heart, a never say die attitude and a solid chin.
He's never been an easy fight for anybody and whether or not you think he deserved to beat Morales or not nobody can deny that he came back from an early knockdown and from being behind to outworking Morales down the stretch.
All 3 judges gave Diaz all 6 of the last 6 rounds against Morales.
He doesn't give up, he keeps fighting to the very end and for a guy like Manny who will be above his natural weight class and who lets face it has looked increasingly lacklustre in recent fights, and particulalry vulnurable against Marquez he could be a tricky opponent.
[quote=Bilbo;488600][quote=ArawakWarria;488593]I agree that he has heart, but he never has an easy fight himself. He has poor defence and I don't think this is the right fight for him. I think him against Casa would be close though, as could Casa keep up with Diaz workrate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
[quote=Bilbo;488600][quote=ArawakWarria;488593]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
all good points again, yoda.
But there is still the question of how he struggled against a person Pacquiao KO's in a few rounds? Was it the weight? Did it drain him for Manny & empower him for Diaz
Side note---Pacqiao v. JUAN Diaz would be a PPV for me. They could still make it happen.
Sorry... him in the last reply means Morales in his two fights with MP and Diaz
I agree, Cruz deserves a rematch. Its unfortunate that it will put a unified title on hold, but its only fair to Cruz who lost a very controversial decision.
David Diaz is tailor made for pac, his slow and not very dangerous in any factor such as countering,slick, or power. His chin isn't all that either nor his stamina. Pac eithers digs to the body early to finish it late or he cruises to a ud win. Interesting part is both guys keeps coming forward, pac doesn't fight an all out inside battle though. He does square up but he still maintains an in and out attack. Thats why i can't see david or juan beating pac. Juans good win came from all out inside close in battles, pac doesn't fight those fights though. As for David,he will look to keep the fight close inside, thats where he has a chance like juan. Pac doesn't fight inside battles, he would give up his footspeed and leftstraight if he does. As we all know pac is famous for his jab jab left straight, he has a range he decievingly maintains.
I want to bet with bilbo, I think pac picks david diaz apart. Yes this will be my chance to equal your power punch bilbo :D I am so glad your going for daivd diaz. Lets make a rep bet buddy!
David Diaz is grossly underrated.
Please include me in the rep bets, Bilbo. This time the 2nd in command will not be siding with his commander.;D
I'll give you 1000 rep points if I lose without me expecting some return reps.:cool:
And If I may couple it also with a sig bet. Sig bets will be removed only after full payment of the 1000 rep points.
Do we have a deal Bilbo? Hope you have the courage to accept my offer.:cool:;D
You guys are gunna have to even the bet out a bit for Bilbo before he accepts this. If Pac wins on points, he still gets the reps off me. I'm confident Pac knocks Diaz out. Its too easy for Bruce & Julius to say Pac is gunna win. I've offered Bilbo every possible outcome. If Pac doesn't Knock him out, he gets reps. Gets some balls and put your neck on the line.
Balls? well i got some basketballs here in my room but this is a forum what will they do for us? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Bilbo thinks daiz will win well fair play i think pac wins, why one have to be handicap? Just cause pac is the favorite? well i never buy into those vegas odds. Pac is the one moving up to face another fighters whos bigger than him. I also agree that david diaz is underrated if rated at all.:D
he never said diaz would win, just make life difficult for pac. i predicted the massacre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainBalls? well i got some basketballs here in my room but this is a forum what will they do for us? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Bilbo thinks daiz will win well fair play i think pac wins, why one have to be handicap? Just cause pac is the favorite? well i never buy into those vegas odds. Pac is the one moving up to face another fighters whos bigger than him. I also agree that david diaz is underrated if rated at all.:D
:oooh! :confused: i thought he did, well i'll shut up now....:-XQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnhe never said diaz would win, just make life difficult for pac. i predicted the massacre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainBalls? well i got some basketballs here in my room but this is a forum what will they do for us? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Bilbo thinks daiz will win well fair play i think pac wins, why one have to be handicap? Just cause pac is the favorite? well i never buy into those vegas odds. Pac is the one moving up to face another fighters whos bigger than him. I also agree that david diaz is underrated if rated at all.:D
Your crazy. He might prove to be tougher than expected for Pac IF Manny doesn't handle the move up well, but since he's been weighing in heavier and heavier(unofficially), he shouldn't have any trouble adjusting to 135. I doubt David Diaz weighs more than 145 on fight night. And size aside, Diaz just isn't that good. He'd never beat Pac, just watch his fight with Morales. Did you see his last fight for that matter Bilbo? I think your just calling him underrated for the hell of it, he would be a sitting duck for Pacquiao's left hand, and his chin is not stellar either. He really doesn't have one thing going for him against Manny, he's worse at everything. Morales dropped him in the 1st round, and he was beyond shot. Santa Cruz was owning him too until the one punch. I don't see him as someone Pac couldn't hurt at all. I also disagree that Pacquiao has been looking increasingly lackluster. I think he is just starting to conserve his energy and look to counter more to lengthen his career. If Manny fought the way he did against MAB the first time every fight he'd probably be out of the p4p rankings by now. He is still a dominant physical specimen, he's just starting to be more patient and fight smart. Against Marquez he would've been less effective had he fought with his face first all out style that he did their first fight. Instead he tried to make Marquez lead and looked to counter. He still has crazy explosiveness when he exchanges, and either way Marquez was going to give him hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo