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Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Yesterday evening, pondering the impending Calzaghe Hopkins fight, I took some time to consider the clash of styles.
Calzaghe is what I view as a "reactive" boxer; at this stage of his career he boxes best when the opponent forces the action and he adapts, countering in volume.
With Hopkins we have a fighter who will take no issue with throwing very little and likes to react to the opponents actions himself.
In my mind Joe does not have the patience of Hopkins and will lead if Hopkins is threatening to cause a stalemate. By forcing the action, Calzaghe will endanger himself of being tied up, a position he does not want to be caught in against Hopkins. Could this be Joe's undoing?
Hopkins is commonly perceived to have one of the best chins in modern boxing. That along with rugged tactics could result in broken hands and cuts on Joe's belhalf?
What do you guys think?
This thread will serve as the abstract prediction thread for the fight. (for example I think Calzaghe gets cut etc.)
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Yesterday evening, pondering the impending Calzaghe Hopkins fight, I took some time to consider the clash of styles.
Calzaghe is what I view as a "reactive" boxer; at this stage of his career he boxes best when the opponent forces the action and he adapts, countering in volume.
With Hopkins we have a fighter who will take no issue with throwing very little and likes to react to the opponents actions himself.
In my mind Joe does not have the patience of Hopkins and will lead if Hopkins is threatening to cause a stalemate. By forcing the action, Calzaghe will endanger himself of being tied up, a position he does not want to be caught in against Hopkins. Could this be Joe's undoing?
Hopkins is commonly perceived to have one of the best chins in modern boxing. That along with rugged tactics could result in broken hands and cuts on Joe's belhalf?
What do you guys think?
This thread will serve as the abstract prediction thread for the fight. (for example I think Calzaghe gets cut etc.)
Good point and i have noticed Calzaghe does lose concentration when an opponent uses rough house tactics on the inside plus clinching and etc. Robin Reid and Sakio Bika are perfect examples. Both men didn't throw a lot of punches but they were able to slow Calzaghe down quite a bit by using the right tactics which was rough him on the inside and clinching to off set his rhythm. Another thing im worried about is Calzaghe's big weakness to right hands, which is Hopkins best punch.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Your right about people coming forward that's how Joe does his work nowadays, And B-hop aint gonna pressing the action but the Calzaghe camp must realise this.I hope Joe dont get to exited cos he has that habit.At the kessler fight he was dropping his hands and showing off trying to give the fans who showed up there moneys worth.I'd rather he Just concentrated on clearly winning that trying to look spectacular cos he'll get himself caught.
But answer to your post I think Joe is gonna press the action this fight,the extra weight i think he will look alot better cos he's not killing himself to make weight.He made a comment a while ago about struggling to meet 168..that must have affected him quite badly..."if" he struggles as much as he says.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Yesterday evening, pondering the impending Calzaghe Hopkins fight, I took some time to consider the clash of styles.
Calzaghe is what I view as a "reactive" boxer; at this stage of his career he boxes best when the opponent forces the action and he adapts, countering in volume.
With Hopkins we have a fighter who will take no issue with throwing very little and likes to react to the opponents actions himself.
In my mind Joe does not have the patience of Hopkins and will lead if Hopkins is threatening to cause a stalemate. By forcing the action, Calzaghe will endanger himself of being tied up, a position he does not want to be caught in against Hopkins. Could this be Joe's undoing?
Hopkins is commonly perceived to have one of the best chins in modern boxing. That along with rugged tactics could result in broken hands and cuts on Joe's belhalf?
What do you guys think?
This thread will serve as the abstract prediction thread for the fight. (for example I think Calzaghe gets cut etc.)
Is it as good as Calzaghe's?
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Thas a good point fenster..When is the last time Hopkins took some shots Like mikkel smashed on Joe's bean? - thas a quistion i really dont know.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Yesterday evening, pondering the impending Calzaghe Hopkins fight, I took some time to consider the clash of styles.
Calzaghe is what I view as a "reactive" boxer; at this stage of his career he boxes best when the opponent forces the action and he adapts, countering in volume.
With Hopkins we have a fighter who will take no issue with throwing very little and likes to react to the opponents actions himself.
In my mind Joe does not have the patience of Hopkins and will lead if Hopkins is threatening to cause a stalemate. By forcing the action, Calzaghe will endanger himself of being tied up, a position he does not want to be caught in against Hopkins. Could this be Joe's undoing?
Hopkins is commonly perceived to have one of the best chins in modern boxing. That along with rugged tactics could result in broken hands and cuts on Joe's belhalf?
What do you guys think?
This thread will serve as the abstract prediction thread for the fight. (for example I think Calzaghe gets cut etc.)
Is it as good as Calzaghe's?
Both men have only been decked twice, Hopkins was decked x2 by Mercado and he was shaken up quite a few times in that fight, although Hopkins didn't get acclimated to the altitude of 10000 feet, so he was lack luster in that fight. Mercado was considered a goodish puncher but not devastating. Calzaghe was decked quite heavily by Salem who isn't really considered a big puncher, and he was also decked by Byron Mitchell not heavily but it did shake him up, Mitchell was considered a goodish. Both men have been decked by fighters who aren't considered big punchers so take your pick.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
yeah, i'd say their chins are equal-ish
so why is hopkins considered to have one of the best chins in modern boxing and not Calzaghe?
interesting i say?
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
yeah, i'd say their chins are equal-ish
so why is hopkins considered to have one of the best chins in modern boxing and not Calzaghe?
interesting i say?
I would consider them both to have the best chins in modern say boxing, maybe Calzaghe doesn't get more credit because he isn't really that known outside of the UK probably.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
yeah, i'd say their chins are equal-ish
so why is hopkins considered to have one of the best chins in modern boxing and not Calzaghe?
interesting i say?
As much His chin as well as his defense and footwork.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Is it as good as Calzaghe's?
I think Calzaghe has a fantastic chin, but I was speaking in context, which wasn't taking Calzaghe's chin into the equation.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
I understand your original point Donny, which is why I think the Kessler fight will stand him in good stead for this one. Kessler realised that Calzaghe was best at being 'reactive' (as he was in the Lavy fight) so stood back in the first few rounds and countered with big rights effectively, which is what we expect Hop to do. Joe adjusted and boxed effectively on the outside, picking his moments more carefully to wade in, which is what he should do against Hop. IMO if Joe is careful he should be able to get rounds in the bank from the outside and wait for Bernard to get impatient like he did in the Taylor fights when they were slipping away from him.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Yesterday evening, pondering the impending Calzaghe Hopkins fight, I took some time to consider the clash of styles.
Calzaghe is what I view as a "reactive" boxer; at this stage of his career he boxes best when the opponent forces the action and he adapts, countering in volume.
With Hopkins we have a fighter who will take no issue with throwing very little and likes to react to the opponents actions himself.
In my mind Joe does not have the patience of Hopkins and will lead if Hopkins is threatening to cause a stalemate. By forcing the action, Calzaghe will endanger himself of being tied up, a position he does not want to be caught in against Hopkins. Could this be Joe's undoing?
Hopkins is commonly perceived to have one of the best chins in modern boxing. That along with rugged tactics could result in broken hands and cuts on Joe's belhalf?
What do you guys think?
This thread will serve as the abstract prediction thread for the fight. (for example I think Calzaghe gets cut etc.)
Is it as good as Calzaghe's?
Both men have only been decked twice, Hopkins was decked x2 by Mercado and he was shaken up quite a few times in that fight, although Hopkins didn't get acclimated to the altitude of 10000 feet, so he was lack luster in that fight. Mercado was considered a goodish puncher but not devastating. Calzaghe was decked quite heavily by Salem who isn't really considered a big puncher, and he was also decked by Byron Mitchell not heavily but it did shake him up, Mitchell was considered a goodish. Both men have been decked by fighters who aren't considered big punchers so take your pick.
i have to disagree cos mitchell was considered a big puncher and was a big puncher
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Interesting discussing who has the better chin / power. This is how i see it
Strength - Hopkins
Power - Calzaghe
Experience - Hopkins
Ring craft - Hopkins
Chin - Equal
Tactical awareness - Hopkins
Speed - Calzaghe
Combination punching - Calzaghe
Fitness - Calzaghe
Recovery powers - Calzaghe
Boxing skills - Calzaghe
The only two I think are debatable are power and boxing skills .
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Yesterday evening, pondering the impending Calzaghe Hopkins fight, I took some time to consider the clash of styles.
Calzaghe is what I view as a "reactive" boxer; at this stage of his career he boxes best when the opponent forces the action and he adapts, countering in volume.
With Hopkins we have a fighter who will take no issue with throwing very little and likes to react to the opponents actions himself.
In my mind Joe does not have the patience of Hopkins and will lead if Hopkins is threatening to cause a stalemate. By forcing the action, Calzaghe will endanger himself of being tied up, a position he does not want to be caught in against Hopkins. Could this be Joe's undoing?
Hopkins is commonly perceived to have one of the best chins in modern boxing. That along with rugged tactics could result in broken hands and cuts on Joe's belhalf?
What do you guys think?
This thread will serve as the abstract prediction thread for the fight. (for example I think Calzaghe gets cut etc.)
I agree with everything you said but in this case things are a bit different...This is not a fight for a title or Joe's 0...this is a bit more personal and will cap either man's career off with a HUGE feather in ther cap's....
Joe is a smart guy his team is smart and even Skank Warren is smart...They would not have agreed to come fight in Vegas if they were not sure of how this will play out...These guys have wanted Hopkins for years...they have been doing homework on Bernard since back when the MW tourney was going on....Joe is no foll..he is not going to fight Hopkins fight...he knows that would be just plain out stupid...he also knows that he needs to win convincingly because anything even remotely close will be a loss for him because the GBP prostitute's..Excuse me sorry I mean the Judges and ref will swing Hopkins way...There is a chance Joe Cortez will sucker punch Joe while the two fighter's clinch....With that bit of uncontrolled sarcasim being said.... Calzaghe's people seen the treatment Hatton recieved in Vegas so they are weary....Joe will be patient and he will not fall into anything Hopkins tries...He knows the speed Hopkins likes to keep and also that Hopkins likes fighting off the ropes to counter...Calzaghe will do his best to keep in in the middle of the ring and back off when Bernard goes to the ropes...The hands will not be a factor,,,IMO everyone is dwelling on the hands a bit too much...perhaps even Hopkins and his people....Cuts happen but again Joe will avoid clinche's and avoid the ropes so the less inside fighting the less of a chance for them to occur...
Hopkins is the onew who will have to adjust the most...he will have an opponent who will not allow him to dictate the pace...Hopkins will have no choice but to fight...Hopkins does not like to start fast and he does not like to keep a fast pace...he needs to counter and most of his tricks are done in the clinch or off the ropes...take those two away from him and even a gy of his stature loses some important tools...Hopkins is stubborn and does not think he needs to adjust anything...IMO he will become frustrated at the pace and frustrated at the fact Joe will not be played...Then hopkins wil be forced if only due to ego to step out of character and try to show Joe up....it will be his mistake...
I see no KO's here and TBH a lot of this fight will be dull while both men try to make the other come to them...EGo will be the key in this one and Hopkins ego is way bigger then Joe's....Joe will out work him 3 to 1 and win a UD
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
yeah, i'd say their chins are equal-ish
so why is hopkins considered to have one of the best chins in modern boxing and not Calzaghe?
interesting i say?
As much His chin as well as his defense and footwork.
I was gonna bring up the point Hopkins seems to get hit with less good uns.. but then couldn't be bothered
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Can't wait to see their gloves do the talkin'.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Interesting discussing who has the better chin / power. This is how i see it
Strength - Hopkins
Power - Calzaghe
Experience - Hopkins
Ring craft - Hopkins
Chin - Equal
Tactical awareness - Hopkins
Speed - Calzaghe
Combination punching - Calzaghe
Fitness - Calzaghe
Recovery powers - Calzaghe
Boxing skills - Calzaghe
The only two I think are debatable are power and boxing skills .
Fitness is debatable also. Hopkins and Calzaghe are both supremely fit.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Interesting discussing who has the better chin / power. This is how i see it
Strength - Hopkins
Power - Calzaghe
Experience - Hopkins
Ring craft - Hopkins
Chin - Equal
Tactical awareness - Hopkins
Speed - Calzaghe
Combination punching - Calzaghe
Fitness - Calzaghe
Recovery powers - Calzaghe
Boxing skills - Calzaghe
The only two I think are debatable are power and boxing skills .
Fitness is debatable also. Hopkins and Calzaghe are both supremely fit.
The reason I didnt put that 1 up as debatable is cuz Hopkins in his mid 40s wont be able to match Joes workrate . I havent seen Hopkins fight at pace for years now . I know Joe can throw double what Hopkins can . So although Hopkins keeps himself in great condition I think Joe is clearly the fitter of the two and will have more in the tank.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Chins are equal ?????????????????
name any fighter Calzaghe has fough who has the speed and power of Roy Jones JR ???? Hopkins took his shots for 12 rounds ?
Calzaghe has never fought anyone with this kind of ability. and it was a prime Roy Jones .
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Chins are equal ?????????????????
name any fighter Calzaghe has fough who has the speed and power of Roy Jones JR ???? Hopkins took his shots for 12 rounds ?
Calzaghe has never fought anyone with this kind of ability. and it was a prime Roy Jones .
Any fighter can go 12 if they are in survival mode . Hopkins wasnt exactly going all out when he knew he was losing. Mercado had Hopkins out on his feet almost stopped him . Calzaghes never been in that condition before .
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Chins are equal ?????????????????
name any fighter Calzaghe has fough who has the speed and power of Roy Jones JR ???? Hopkins took his shots for 12 rounds ?
Calzaghe has never fought anyone with this kind of ability. and it was a prime Roy Jones .
Any fighter can go 12 if they are in survival mode . Hopkins wasnt exactly going all out when he knew he was losing. Mercado had Hopkins out on his feet almost stopped him . Calzaghes never been in that condition before .
Are u sayin hopkins was in survival mode? Ive seen the fight many times and while i agree roy won he was the one doin all the movin. I thought hopkins was tryin to make the fight. It seemed roy was fine with potshotting and moving. Ive said it before roy never looked more ordinary in a fight up until he fought tarver.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Chins are equal ?????????????????
name any fighter Calzaghe has fough who has the speed and power of Roy Jones JR ???? Hopkins took his shots for 12 rounds ?
Calzaghe has never fought anyone with this kind of ability. and it was a prime Roy Jones .
Any fighter can go 12 if they are in survival mode . Hopkins wasnt exactly going all out when he knew he was losing. Mercado had Hopkins out on his feet almost stopped him . Calzaghes never been in that condition before .
.He was far from In survival mode and actually gave a Hitting Prime Jones Tough times on the ropes.Not exactly a blowout ,4 point fight all around.
Mercado fight was to this date Hopkins toughest.The Bad judgement by Hopkins/ camp to arrive in Columbia and Its huge difference in Altitude on 3 or 4 days prior to fight had as much to do with Hopkins problems as Mercados wide punches.Also Imo Hopkins believed the hype and was convinced he would KO Mercado early ...Dumb!Almost don't mean a thing though,Hopkins came back to batter Mercado late and Ruined him in the rematch for good.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Chins are equal ?????????????????
name any fighter Calzaghe has fough who has the speed and power of Roy Jones JR ???? Hopkins took his shots for 12 rounds ?
Calzaghe has never fought anyone with this kind of ability. and it was a prime Roy Jones .
Any fighter can go 12 if they are in survival mode . Hopkins wasnt exactly going all out when he knew he was losing. Mercado had Hopkins out on his feet almost stopped him . Calzaghes never been in that condition before .
Calzaghe was badly dropped by Mitchell and he rushed in and got caught himself , but Mitchell isnt Roy Jones . as for your comment about survival mode well you are mis informed if you believe that.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Chins are equal ?????????????????
name any fighter Calzaghe has fough who has the speed and power of Roy Jones JR ???? Hopkins took his shots for 12 rounds ?
Calzaghe has never fought anyone with this kind of ability. and it was a prime Roy Jones .
Any fighter can go 12 if they are in survival mode . Hopkins wasnt exactly going all out when he knew he was losing. Mercado had Hopkins out on his feet almost stopped him . Calzaghes never been in that condition before .
Calzaghe was badly dropped by Mitchell and he rushed in and got caught himself , but Mitchell isnt Roy Jones . as for your comment about survival mode well you are mis informed if you believe that.
If he wasnt trying to survie then why wasnt he throwing any punches . Rewatch the Jones - Hopkins last 4 rounds . Hopkins was behind , he should have gone all out and try and get a K.O instead of plodding around the ring getting embarrassed. If Joe was getting owned , youd expect the closing rounds to be furious whilst he chased a win . Hopkins IMO didnt show that passion and I was disapointed with him . Thats my opinion .
As fro Mitchel . Joe took his best shot flush , got straight up and knocked him out in the same round. Hopkins doesnt hit like Mitchel anyway
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Any fighter can go 12 if they are in survival mode . Hopkins wasnt exactly going all out when he knew he was losing. Mercado had Hopkins out on his feet almost stopped him . Calzaghes never been in that condition before .
Calzaghe was badly dropped by Mitchell and he rushed in and got caught himself , but Mitchell isnt Roy Jones . as for your comment about survival mode well you are mis informed if you believe that.
If he wasnt trying to survie then why wasnt he throwing any punches . Rewatch the Jones - Hopkins last 4 rounds . Hopkins was behind , he should have gone all out and try and get a K.O instead of plodding around the ring getting embarrassed. If Joe was getting owned , youd expect the closing rounds to be furious whilst he chased a win . Hopkins IMO didnt show that passion and I was disapointed with him . Thats my opinion .
As fro Mitchel . Joe took his best shot flush , got straight up and knocked him out in the same round. Hopkins doesnt hit like Mitchel anyway
Hopkins was in pursuit, often when a fighter is not finding his range or getting countered frequently, his output will drop and he will attempt to find a better position to punch from.
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Calzaghe was badly dropped by Mitchell and he rushed in and got caught himself , but Mitchell isnt Roy Jones . as for your comment about survival mode well you are mis informed if you believe that.
If he wasnt trying to survie then why wasnt he throwing any punches . Rewatch the Jones - Hopkins last 4 rounds . Hopkins was behind , he should have gone all out and try and get a K.O instead of plodding around the ring getting embarrassed. If Joe was getting owned , youd expect the closing rounds to be furious whilst he chased a win . Hopkins IMO didnt show that passion and I was disapointed with him . Thats my opinion .
As fro Mitchel . Joe took his best shot flush , got straight up and knocked him out in the same round. Hopkins doesnt hit like Mitchel anyway
Hopkins was in pursuit, often when a fighter is not finding his range or getting countered frequently, his output will drop and he will attempt to find a better position to punch from.
I understand that. Hopkins was thinking too much though . When a fighter throws caution to the wind , he doesnt think about getting countered . Maybe he used his brain cuz when Hatton chased Floyd he walked onto a K.O blow . Hopkins never tried to rescue his cause vs Jones and thats my point .
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
If he wasnt trying to survie then why wasnt he throwing any punches . Rewatch the Jones - Hopkins last 4 rounds . Hopkins was behind , he should have gone all out and try and get a K.O instead of plodding around the ring getting embarrassed. If Joe was getting owned , youd expect the closing rounds to be furious whilst he chased a win . Hopkins IMO didnt show that passion and I was disapointed with him . Thats my opinion .
As fro Mitchel . Joe took his best shot flush , got straight up and knocked him out in the same round. Hopkins doesnt hit like Mitchel anyway
Hopkins was in pursuit, often when a fighter is not finding his range or getting countered frequently, his output will drop and he will attempt to find a better position to punch from.
I understand that. Hopkins was thinking too much though . When a fighter throws caution to the wind , he doesnt think about getting countered . Maybe he used his brain cuz when Hatton chased Floyd he walked onto a K.O blow . Hopkins never tried to rescue his cause vs Jones and thats my point .
I feel Hopkins put in the effort early.
He went out to prove something in that fight, throwing a lot early, who knows he may have tired himself slightly. In addition he was frustrated, he never connected with Jones ass he had with every other fighter he encountered.
However, I still feel Hopkins was pressing forward in the final rounds. This would indicate that he wanted to attack Jones, he was just too outclassed and frustrated to do so. So disheartened; yes, In survival mode; No.
It's ironic isn't it. We look back at that time and say "Hopkins threw too much back then":D
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Re: Some thoughts; Calzaghe Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Hopkins was in pursuit, often when a fighter is not finding his range or getting countered frequently, his output will drop and he will attempt to find a better position to punch from.
I understand that. Hopkins was thinking too much though . When a fighter throws caution to the wind , he doesnt think about getting countered . Maybe he used his brain cuz when Hatton chased Floyd he walked onto a K.O blow . Hopkins never tried to rescue his cause vs Jones and thats my point .
I feel Hopkins put in the effort early.
He went out to prove something in that fight, throwing a lot early, who knows he may have tired himself slightly. In addition he was frustrated, he never connected with Jones ass he had with every other fighter he encountered.
However, I still feel Hopkins was pressing forward in the final rounds. This would indicate that he wanted to attack Jones, he was just too outclassed and frustrated to do so. So disheartened; yes, In survival mode; No.
It's ironic isn't it. We look back at that time and say
"Hopkins threw too much back then":D
He's certainly evolved hasnt he .
In my eyes he didnt go for broke. It could be as you say cuz he was too fatigued due to early pressure. The way I enterpreted it was that he didnt try to get a K.O win when he knew he was behind therefore he just wanted to see out the distance . I view that as survival mode abit like Jones vs Tarver in the 3rd fight . He knew he wasnt winning but didnt do anything about it .
