Is B-Hop realistically done?

THe main reason people would say B-Hop is done is because in his last two fights he has been fatigued, but lets take a look at this. B-Hop who is 43 was chased around by both Winky who put relentless pressure on him, and Calzaghe who put relentless pressure on him from the 4 round on. Now WInky might have Calzaghe's handspeed(IMO), but he definitely didn't have Calzaghe's footspeed, and I believe that Calzaghe really made Hopkins work harder to stay away than anyone has for as long as I can remember. I don't think there are very many fighters out there who can compete with Hopkins on the inside like Calzaghe did, and has enough will to keep coming forward unrelenting after eating those right hands. ALl I am saying is that even Mayweather was getting more tired against Hatton's constant pressure than I've ever seen him, and B-Hop moves a lot more for his size than Floyd. IMO Bernard is still in better shape than most boxers out there. I mean Kessler who is in good shape couldn't keep up with Calzaghe, and he didn't even use half the footwork that B-Hop did.

B-hop aint quiet done yet. But he's almost there, bordering on retirement.

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Originally Posted by Iron Mike

He doesnt HAVE to be done, but he SHOULD be done.

What's left for him?

Another loss just stings a bit more and lessens his record with another L.

I can't think of a meaningful/realistic win that would do anything to enhance his legacy, such as it is.


Couple things: I been reading this site for weeks, and it's awesome. But some of you are crazy looking back through time with your rose colored goggles on.

Joe Calzaghe won that fight. Period. The judge who had Bernard up four rounds -- well that's las Vegas for you. There's always one dumbass judge that just seems to see the fight completely different. It's a risk you take when you can't knock someone out.

That said, I maintain that Joe CORTES is a reasonably good referee, and some of you are forgetting how GOOD Hopkins is at getting away with shenanigans just out of sight of the ref. Try to count how many times he held Joe's left hand after a punch for the next five seconds ON THE SIDE AWAY FROM CORTES.

I want to tip my hat to Hopkins just on account of how brilliantly DIRTY he is. It's an art form with this guy, but cheap is cheap and I think its despicable. Classy fighters that don't want to get hit, Floyd Mayweather and James Toney, employ any number of tricks to avoid punishment without all the cheap crap.

Caveat: Floyd was a dirty SOB in the Hatton fight. Im still conflicted about this, as Ricky is no walk through the tulips in the 'fight clean' category, so I think it was more shock than anything to see the tables turned on Hatton by Mayweather of all people. That said, I think Joe let Floyd get away with too much. I think he let Bernard get away with too much.

But Bernard did not win that fight. Beautiful right in the first round put Joe on his ass. Hopkins continued to do well for a few more rounds. It was all Calzaghe all the way down the stretch though, and no amount of clever wordplay will change it.


I would like to see Joe fight Roy Jones, the man who, even in a slightly diminished capacity, has the speed to make this fight a corker.

Pavlik has great ninja power, but he has nowhere near the strange angles and disruptive offense of a Joe Calzaghe. I see Pavlik hitting the deck around 9 or 10 from a long, slow beating.

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Mayweather isn't that cheap... He just uses his forearms which much fighters don't ahve that much difficulty with the problem with Hatton coming in is that he changes angles and that elbow that usually stops mayweather's opponenets from throwing right hands was making contact with Hatton, but you are obviously a Brit, and thus way too biased to approach this logically... I mean Calzaghe isn't exactly a fair fighter either.. He slaps a lot of his punches which is illegal to not hit with the punching part of the glove, He hits while he is in a clinch. Also no judge had Hopkins up 4 rounds, and Joe didn't clearly win that fight, every expert is agreeing with that it was a close fight, or every expert that knows what they are talking about.

I think Bhop has proven all hes needed to in that fight with JC!

He lost the fight but it doesnt mean that much at all tbh.

He walked away from the fight (albeit looking like an idiot with racist comments and very bad dirty tactics) unscathed and proved that he is a great athlete and hall of famer, a legend in the sport of boxing.

He also made a lot of people dislike him from the stupid things that came out of his mouth (which he probably didnt mean to be fair to him) but he still ended up looking stupid from it, lets be fair...everyone must agree that saying some of the things he did have absolutely no place in sport (or life) at all.

But the fact is he is still a great boxer at 43, he is a better boxer than kessler, lacy, eubank etc etc, hes recently beaten wright and bashed tarver. To lose in a close fight against JC and to have put him on the floor aswell is absolutely no shame whatsoever.

If he wanted to he could keep boxing, but whats he got to prove?

I can see only 3 options for him:

1. He fights a rematch against RJJ, i think he might win this aswell. I think hopkins is more dangerous at light heavy than he was at middle weight, weve seen this by how he emphatically beat tarver and wright and just lost a close fight with JC. He could end up winning against RJJ at light heavy, it would attract massive media attention and a great payday for both fighters...both bernard and RJJ have something to gain from this...FOR OLD TIMES SAKE;) I know id watch it:)

2. He fights dawson. Just a possibility. I dont think dawson will be able to handle nard. Nard will confuse the young dawson (most people say johnson was too much for him, in chad's very controversial win), nard will be too much and take away chads 0 in my opinion. Moneywise its not bad, id watch the fight, definately not on the level as fighting RJJ in a farewell rematch though...but still he fights another unbeaten fighter and i think he'll remove the 0 from chad, nard may relish the thought of doing that just before he retires.

3. He calls it a day, hangs up his gloves and retires to go back to his family, maybe some boxing commentary, maybe write an autobiography or get a column in a magazine?

Then again, maybe he'll start by being nice and giving respect to the guys that beat him;) Haha, nah...thats one thing that nard definately hasnt got on his agender;)

:)

Fuk guys, lets not let this slip back to arguing the fight again:confused::rolleyes:

Theres been at least 40 threads that are all about calzaghe vs hopkins...the fight is history now, its over and done with.

Joe won, nard lost, the fact is that joe didnt look good at all against nard and nard still proved that at 43 years old hes a bad ass in the ring and a hall of famer, he muddled up joe's boxing and in the end it was only because joe adapted just in time (i guess thats why hes champ) that he beat nard.

After bhop's loss to JC i actually look at him better than i did beforehand...he has gained more respect in my eyes due to HIS PERFORMANCE in the ring against JC than he had prior to this last fight.

Lets keep this to what the original poster wanted to talk about 'what should nard do next' and not start arguing about the fight.

Bernard has been beaten at his own game period. He's done, and this bodes well for the sport, if you think about it. Actually, even if you don't think about it.

Someone hit the light.....Maybe the cockroach will scurry under the pantry

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Someone hit the light.....Maybe the cockroach will scurry under the pantry

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O RLY? :o

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Mayweather isn't that cheap... He just uses his forearms which much fighters don't ahve that much difficulty with the problem with Hatton coming in is that he changes angles and that elbow that usually stops mayweather's opponenets from throwing right hands was making contact with Hatton, but you are obviously a Brit, and thus way too biased to approach this logically... I mean Calzaghe isn't exactly a fair fighter either.. He slaps a lot of his punches which is illegal to not hit with the punching part of the glove, He hits while he is in a clinch. Also no judge had Hopkins up 4 rounds, and Joe didn't clearly win that fight, every expert is agreeing with that it was a close fight, or every expert that knows what they are talking about.

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I hear people express that description all the time. I would like to know what merits the label Boxing Expert? I see so many use that term in their arguments like it extends more authority and trust over the average die hard fan.

If you find an answer, please enlighten me.

I don't really like the term 'done' for Bernard, to me that's a descriptor you attach to a former great who simply has nothing left, Morales, Tyson and Gatti, although clearly Gatti was never a true great.

BHop hasn't deteriorated to that level yet and would still be a tough fight for anyone from 160-175 but his days of winning the big fights seem to be over.

There comes a point where, if all you can do is come up with a gameplan of spoiling, holding, tying up your opponenent in order to lose by a narrow decision then the fans won't be too excited about seeing it.

BHop has become irrelevent to current boxing in terms of challenging for titles etc. He's no longer the future of any division but rather a past star who should move on and make way for the youngsters coming through.

He could probably give Dawson or Pavlik a hell of a fight, in terms of competitiveness but neither fight would be particularly exciting. He'll just try to spoil, stop their offensive arsenal and keep the fight close on the scorecards, probably to lose another close decision.

It's possible he could even beat them with the judges help, but honestly do we really care? I want to see guys like Pavlik and Dawson develop into genuine champions and take on the best of the new era.

Taking on an ageing ring genius like BHop as he attempts to take away all of the action in a fight from them and subject them to the tedium of a 12 round equivilant of rock, paper, scissors with Hopkins constantly negating everything they do but not doing anything exciting himself is just not something I want to see any more.

Bernard is/was a modern great, he's had an extraordinary career, but I hope for boxing's sake he decides to call it a day now. Unlike the likes of Morales and Tyson he'll probably never embarrass himself in the ring, but also very unlike those former greats he'll bore the hell out of the audience in order to keep the fight close.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

THe main reason people would say B-Hop is done is because in his last two fights he has been fatigued, but lets take a look at this. B-Hop who is 43 was chased around by both Winky who put relentless pressure on him, and Calzaghe who put relentless pressure on him from the 4 round on. Now WInky might have Calzaghe's handspeed(IMO), but he definitely didn't have Calzaghe's footspeed, and I believe that Calzaghe really made Hopkins work harder to stay away than anyone has for as long as I can remember. I don't think there are very many fighters out there who can compete with Hopkins on the inside like Calzaghe did, and has enough will to keep coming forward unrelenting after eating those right hands. ALl I am saying is that even Mayweather was getting more tired against Hatton's constant pressure than I've ever seen him, and B-Hop moves a lot more for his size than Floyd. IMO Bernard is still in better shape than most boxers out there. I mean Kessler who is in good shape couldn't keep up with Calzaghe, and he didn't even use half the footwork that B-Hop did.

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Which goes to show how good Hopkins footwork is because Kessler's is up there with the very best i have seen. Andrade said Kessler's footwork was unbelievable.

I think B-Hop can carry on and still beat the likes of Dawson and Woods quite handily.

Losing a split decision against Calzaghe is nothing to be ashamed of. I don't think it was Hopkins age that caught up with him, i think it was Calzaghe's work-rate and relentlessness that did it.

Good post mate.

Hopkins boxed well early in the fight displaying good movement, tactics and right hands.
The right hands he landed would have stopped lesser fighters, so I think B-Hop is by no means done, but he is not at the highest level.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I don't really like the term 'done' for Bernard, to me that's a descriptor you attach to a former great who simply has nothing left, Morales, Tyson and Gatti, although clearly Gatti was never a true great.

BHop hasn't deteriorated to that level yet and would still be a tough fight for anyone from 160-175 but his days of winning the big fights seem to be over.

There comes a point where, if all you can do is come up with a gameplan of spoiling, holding, tying up your opponenent in order to lose by a narrow decision then the fans won't be too excited about seeing it.

BHop has become irrelevent to current boxing in terms of challenging for titles etc. He's no longer the future of any division but rather a past star who should move on and make way for the youngsters coming through.

He could probably give Dawson or Pavlik a hell of a fight, in terms of competitiveness but neither fight would be particularly exciting. He'll just try to spoil, stop their offensive arsenal and keep the fight close on the scorecards, probably to lose another close decision.

It's possible he could even beat them with the judges help, but honestly do we really care? I want to see guys like Pavlik and Dawson develop into genuine champions and take on the best of the new era.

Taking on an ageing ring genius like BHop as he attempts to take away all of the action in a fight from them and subject them to the tedium of a 12 round equivilant of rock, paper, scissors with Hopkins constantly negating everything they do but not doing anything exciting himself is just not something I want to see any more.

Bernard is/was a modern great, he's had an extraordinary career, but I hope for boxing's sake he decides to call it a day now. Unlike the likes of Morales and Tyson he'll probably never embarrass himself in the ring, but also very unlike those former greats he'll bore the hell out of the audience in order to keep the fight close.

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Very good post mate!

But im not sure why you think that his days of winning the big fights are over?

He recently beat winky and tarver, they are big fights arent they?

Sure he just lost to calzaghe, but it was a close fight, he almost spoiled calzaghe, that is something that people didnt really expect someone of calzaghe's flair to be spoiled like that.

I think calzaghe would beat pavlik or dawson by a greater margin than he did against hopkins. Therefore against those 2 fighters i can see nard beating them tbh. Well, i see him beatening dawson for sure, afterall dawsons performance against johnson was very controversial, 80% of showtime viewers thought johnson beat him, the crowd thought johnson won and were booing dawson all night, along with around 75% of this forum saying they thought johnson won, yet dawson took it 116,112 for all 3 judges:confused::confused::confused: Taking how close johnson was to beating dawson, i cant see how dawson can beat bhop. The only way calzaghe was able to beat bhop was to adapt, but dawson is too inexperienced to be able to cope with wily nard, he will be put off hs game and made to look terrible. Couple that with dawsons sub par chin and i think dawson would get floored in the match aswell...if its nard verses chad then nard wins imo.

Pavlik is another story though, although i can see nard managing to spoil pavlik aswell, particularly as the guy is just gonna clinch and counter all night long until he can get right in close for an exchange with kelly in the middle of the ring right at the end of the round (like he tried with joe). Kelly isnt too good at the brawls and i can see hopkins coming out favourite in this aswell.

Of course it would be chad and pavlik pushing the fight against bhop, that goes without saying. But if the guy has made calzaghe look bad against him, calzaghe having shone completely against lacy and looked very good against kessler, i can only see him making dawson look bad and being a bit of a mess for pavlik aswell.

I think he can still fight on if he wants, he wont move back to middleweight so fighting kelly is out of the question, but maybe he either wants RJJ or dawson in a final match?

I thought it would be a tarver vs dawson matchup, but maybe nard wants dawson instead (hes already battered tarver).

I cant see RJJ vs bhop happening though.

So either he should retire, or get rid of dawsons 0, because frankly i dont think dawson deserves the hype hes had. It took a 40 year old johnson to make dawson look poor, where dawson seemed to win v controversially, so i just think that a light heavyweight hopkins, in the form he currently is, will be too much for dawson.

He doesnt need the money so he should just retire already though i think.

It was a close fight so you can bet your arse he will fight again. Loves the money too much.

as big a fan of hopkins that i am, and are one of those people who really likes watching his style...........i have to say i feel he should retire now

i legend can have 5 loses on his record, even the the greatest ali has 5, but risking the 6th would hurt his legacy to much at a point where he has nothing left to do as a fighter at the age of 43. he has lost 3 of his last 5 fight with out ever looking in danger and never been beaten up, all the loss's have been open to debate as to wheather he really lost them

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Originally Posted by LondonBB

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I don't really like the term 'done' for Bernard, to me that's a descriptor you attach to a former great who simply has nothing left, Morales, Tyson and Gatti, although clearly Gatti was never a true great.

BHop hasn't deteriorated to that level yet and would still be a tough fight for anyone from 160-175 but his days of winning the big fights seem to be over.

There comes a point where, if all you can do is come up with a gameplan of spoiling, holding, tying up your opponenent in order to lose by a narrow decision then the fans won't be too excited about seeing it.

BHop has become irrelevent to current boxing in terms of challenging for titles etc. He's no longer the future of any division but rather a past star who should move on and make way for the youngsters coming through.

He could probably give Dawson or Pavlik a hell of a fight, in terms of competitiveness but neither fight would be particularly exciting. He'll just try to spoil, stop their offensive arsenal and keep the fight close on the scorecards, probably to lose another close decision.

It's possible he could even beat them with the judges help, but honestly do we really care? I want to see guys like Pavlik and Dawson develop into genuine champions and take on the best of the new era.

Taking on an ageing ring genius like BHop as he attempts to take away all of the action in a fight from them and subject them to the tedium of a 12 round equivilant of rock, paper, scissors with Hopkins constantly negating everything they do but not doing anything exciting himself is just not something I want to see any more.

Bernard is/was a modern great, he's had an extraordinary career, but I hope for boxing's sake he decides to call it a day now. Unlike the likes of Morales and Tyson he'll probably never embarrass himself in the ring, but also very unlike those former greats he'll bore the hell out of the audience in order to keep the fight close.

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Very good post mate!

But im not sure why you think that his days of winning the big fights are over?

He recently beat winky and tarver, they are big fights arent they?

Sure he just lost to calzaghe, but it was a close fight, he almost spoiled calzaghe, that is something that people didnt really expect someone of calzaghe's flair to be spoiled like that.

I think calzaghe would beat pavlik or dawson by a greater margin than he did against hopkins. Therefore against those 2 fighters i can see nard beating them tbh. Well, i see him beatening dawson for sure, afterall dawsons performance against johnson was very controversial, 80% of showtime viewers thought johnson beat him, the crowd thought johnson won and were booing dawson all night, along with around 75% of this forum saying they thought johnson won, yet dawson took it 116,112 for all 3 judges:confused::confused::confused: Taking how close johnson was to beating dawson, i cant see how dawson can beat bhop. The only way calzaghe was able to beat bhop was to adapt, but dawson is too inexperienced to be able to cope with wily nard, he will be put off hs game and made to look terrible. Couple that with dawsons sub par chin and i think dawson would get floored in the match aswell...if its nard verses chad then nard wins imo.

Pavlik is another story though, although i can see nard managing to spoil pavlik aswell, particularly as the guy is just gonna clinch and counter all night long until he can get right in close for an exchange with kelly in the middle of the ring right at the end of the round (like he tried with joe). Kelly isnt too good at the brawls and i can see hopkins coming out favourite in this aswell.

Of course it would be chad and pavlik pushing the fight against bhop, that goes without saying. But if the guy has made calzaghe look bad against him, calzaghe having shone completely against lacy and looked very good against kessler, i can only see him making dawson look bad and being a bit of a mess for pavlik aswell.

I think he can still fight on if he wants, he wont move back to middleweight so fighting kelly is out of the question, but maybe he either wants RJJ or dawson in a final match?

I thought it would be a tarver vs dawson matchup, but maybe nard wants dawson instead (hes already battered tarver).

I cant see RJJ vs bhop happening though.

So either he should retire, or get rid of dawsons 0, because frankly i dont think dawson deserves the hype hes had. It took a 40 year old johnson to make dawson look poor, where dawson seemed to win v controversially, so i just think that a light heavyweight hopkins, in the form he currently is, will be too much for dawson.

He doesnt need the money so he should just retire already though i think.

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I agree that he could beat Dawson and Pavlik, certainly I think both fights would be close, I just don't think he will win. True he beat Tarver and Winky but Tarver is almost as old as he is and had to lose over 50 lbs to make that fight after bulking up for Rocky. Anyone who saw that fight knows that Tarver was just a shell in that fight, even Manfredo would beaten him that night.

Winky is a top level fighter but his legs have gone and he was giving up far too much weight. Winky isn't a top level performer any more imo, I can't see him beating the likes of Pavlikor Abraham at middleweight or any of the top guys at 168.

So we are left with B Hops performances against prime fighters, Taylor and Calzaghe (Calzaghe is still pretty much near his peak imo) and on all 3 occaisions BHop came up short. I know every fight has been close and all have been disputed but nonetheless he's lost 3 times out of 3.

He hasn't knocked a fighter out in years and his activitiy levels are low so he would struggle get wins over Pavlik and Dawson imo. He'd certainly be the underdog and more than likely he'd lose respectable decisions again.

But, and here's the crux of it for me, supposing he did manage to win? Who really wants to see that?

Pavlik and Dawson are clearly the future of their respective divisions, one an exciting come forward brawler, the other a slick boxer puncher. They are both young, both exciting to watch and both have some great potential matchups with the best of their divisions.

Who really cares or wants to see if Hopkins can spoil and snooze his way to a hotly disputed and controversial points win? He's practically a grandad so a win for him doesn't improve the boxing situation in any division in any way. All it does is take away the zero from one of Americas top up and coming fighters and spoil the potential big fights that could be coming up in 2008/9

I respect what Bernard has done in the game and the fact that he's maintained his conditioning levels into his 40's is remarkable, but I don't want him to see him fighting the likes of Pavlik or Dawson and potentially devaluing a rising talent of the sport.

I know I'll be in a minority here but if he wants to carry on fighting I'd be happiest to see him fight Roy Jones again. It's a rematch between the two most dominant fighters of their era's and as they are both no longer a part of the current boxing future a fight between them doesn't interfere with any future dream matchups involving the younger talent.

It would be a great showcase fight and a nice way for both fighters to sign off their careers. That would be my favourite fight for both of them by far.

Let Joe have his swansong against one of the top young guns like Pavlik or Dawson for a chance to truly cement his legacy, and also give us the most exciting possible matchup.

Bhop and Jones can then build their retirement funds with a gentle exhibition over 12 closely competitive but relatively harmless and uneventful rounds. :)

BHOP vs Roy, so Roy can win again. But to answer the thread, Hopkins isn't done. I don't know if he'll try for Pavlik, but Tarver, Jones, Joe C.(again), or maybe even Tito, would all bring in some decent money. If the "schedule" holds true, and Joe-Roy, and Dawson-Tarver go forward, then the only other options with money, r Tito, Taylor,Wright, or Pavlik. With the most logical being Pavlik, unless of course, Tito pulls some strings. I don't see BHOP trying to take a "tune up", or an average fight. If he fights, it will have to have some money, and a name involved, which I can understand.