The Boxer's jog.

As a sport boxing is seen as highly difficult due to the varying demand on areobic and anaerobic fitness.

I've often heard people refer to their roadwork as a "boxer's jog." This term has been taken to mean a three or four mile run at a slow run or jogging pace. When done frequently it has it's obvious benefits and I myself am a practicioner of this style of running. I benefit greatly from an exactly four mile "block" with various hills, gradients and surfaces to test myself on.

I find that running at this pace does allow me to maintain a satisfactory level of aerobic fitness and it also instills a snese of ones limitations. By that I mean, having ran the "block" numerous times I know exactly how fast I can do it and how much to exert myself.
This translates in the ring as I learn to pace myself, exert myself when I need to andcalculate exactly how much I have in the tank.

This "technique" if you like, has been tried and tested. It builds stamina and in my opinion determination. But what unique spoins do you guys put on your runs? Or do you use any new school technique instead.

For me, I finish my run with a sprint taking as long strides as I possibly can. An 80 metre sprint at the finish of the run means I'm pushing myself each day getting faster and faster.

As per one of my other posts regarding my knees hurting usually after my normal 5 mile run, I had someone come and follow me during my run to see what I might be doing wrong. Their reply, "WTF...yer practically sprinting it the whole way. Slow down!" Not only were my knees hurting, but sometimes I was so totally gassed I just couldn't finish and woul drop like 1 block from home.

The other night I slowed my pace, and not only did it feel better on my legs, I felt so good I kept on going and did another lap and still had more to give it felt. lol

I suppose I need to find the right speed for myself, somewhere in the middle. Now off to run.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

This "technique" if you like, has been tried and tested. It builds stamina and in my opinion determination. But what unique spoins do you guys put on your runs? Or do you use any new school technique instead.

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I love my tabata intervals, pure running intensity. But I do love my long run along the foreshore at sunrise or sunset. Gives me time to just switch off my brain and enjoy myself.

I remeber someone explaining to me what tabata's were and I said "Oh I do, do some of those, but I call them something else!"

yeah probably me haha, 20 second max effort with 10 seconds complete rest, complete 7-8 times consecutively.

or HIIT.

I know one boxer who does walks and sprint workouts, no slow jogs.

I know a lot of people are against any long slow work but I like to fit one in a week or fortnight because it makes it easy for me to stick to my weight class without starving myself. I also find it's really good stress relief - my meditation I guess.

Apart for that I like to mix it up. I have short intervals like 200m with a break recovery to mimic those really hard short efforts. More of an anaerobic effort. I'll do the equivalent with short, hard fast butterfly sprints in the pool too.

I have longer intervals like 600m and 400m which I do as fast as I can to say mimic one hard steady effort kind of round. I might have a slow jog recovery for this which I think also teaches me that I can recover while still working - maybe as if I've just gone all out but now I'm tired and just moving enough to keep out of trouble and counter.

I have recovery runs which I find help just to keep my legs feeling 'light' and enable me to make better use of the interval sessions. I do find it makes a difference perhaps just because it clears the lactic acid out of those specific running muscles more efficiently than another exercise would.

My club also runs a track in really soft sand near the beach we call the snake pit. It has sand hills and takes about 3 mins to run around. We will do 3 or 4 timed laps.

The trainer's theory is that the variation with hills - the hard uphill efforts and easier downhills mimics the variation you might get within a round depending on how much you and your opponent push each other at different times and whether or not your trying to land big heavy punches or fast snappy counter jabs.

Hey Sharla, thanks for that, there are some fantastic ideas in there!
Running on sand is hard as hell and I would suspect it helps with explosivness as your feet struggle to get traction and you constantly push to keep going.

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

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Originally Posted by ono

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

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The primary benefit although most don't realise it, is that it strengthens the legs and allows the fighter to sustain more punishment without the egs buckling.

Hav eyou ever watched a fighte where the fighter was reported not to do much roadwork and if he gest knocke dout it's usually because he lost his legs and got caught.

I'll try think of a few examples.

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Originally Posted by ono

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

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Personally I do it because I enjoy running simple as that, while intervals are simply a training exercise. Other people play video games, eat, write, where as I run, not the worst hobby to have in the world.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ono

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

---

The primary benefit although most don't realise it, is that it strengthens the legs and allows the fighter to sustain more punishment without the egs buckling.

Hav eyou ever watched a fighte where the fighter was reported not to do much roadwork and if he gest knocke dout it's usually because he lost his legs and got caught.

I'll try think of a few examples.

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Was about to post this. I agree that leg strength is vital. One old school example is Marciano who did ridicilous road work and was never unsteady on his legs.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ono

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

---

The primary benefit although most don't realise it, is that it strengthens the legs and allows the fighter to sustain more punishment without the egs buckling.

Hav eyou ever watched a fighte where the fighter was reported not to do much roadwork and if he gest knocke dout it's usually because he lost his legs and got caught.

I'll try think of a few examples.

---

Was about to post this. I agree that leg strength is vital. One old school example is Marciano who did ridicilous road work and was never unsteady on his legs.

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Great point Bomp.

Take a close look at Marciano's physique.
He would have been a middleweight if it were not for his legs!!!

I've had dogs all my live and have always taken them on my road work with me. I used to get so bored doing road work until I started taking the dog with me. When I first started boxing I had a Jack Russell cross breed and man I swear he was the hardest coach I ever had. That dog just never wanted to stay still for a second I'd run a mile at over standard pace then rest for a minute (the dog would hassle me so I'd have to throw a stick for him) then the same again for a further 3 miles with he minute in between. At the end we'd have maybe a 100 metre straight sprint to the stream at which point the dog was in there to cool off.

I started running with the dog I have now a german shepherd she's good but she's no Jack Russell ;D

Anyway a mile at above standard pace with a minutes rest repeated for 4 miles and then a sprint finish was always my road work. My style was always based on speed and movement and one thing I never have suffered from is feeling weak in the legs at any point in a fight.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ono

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

---

The primary benefit although most don't realise it, is that it strengthens the legs and allows the fighter to sustain more punishment without the egs buckling.

Hav eyou ever watched a fighte where the fighter was reported not to do much roadwork and if he gest knocke dout it's usually because he lost his legs and got caught.

I'll try think of a few examples.

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Yeh i get ya. Heard it a few times.

In theory could weight-lifting (squats, deadlifts etc...) play just as important a role, or at least be used to compliment road work?

I've also gotten different advice from different trainers on this. This is what I do now.

Too much running and specifically, too much running at a fast pace gives me shin splints and that sets my training way back. I run twice a week, maybe three times if I need to miss a nightime training session. If I run relaxed, I keep my legs healthy. I'm not at present competitive boxer, I'm not currently running to help me make an ideal boxing weight, just to keep my weight reasonable and keep my overall conditioning up so I can spar more rounds and hold my own against the young guys.

Luckily, I live near a very hilly large park that has paved walks and some dirt walking/running paths. This way I can run at a nice even, 9-10 minute mile pace while still getting my heart rate up. Sometimes I'll do this. There is a very big and steap hill, one of the highest points in the city, and after running a mile, I run straight up that to get my heart rate up, then run another mile around the loop and do it again.

I just started this running program about a month ago after avoiding roadwork during the cold New England winter. Even doing 4 miles, twice per week, in the manner I just described, has helped my stamina considerably. In the gym, I have more wind and can work longer and harder.

It probaby doesn't matter what style of running you do, as long as you do some running and during your running, do some kind of intervals, either by pace or by hills. If I was trying to SERIOUSLY cut weight, I would up my runs to 4x per week and probably alternate between intense hill runs and flat low-heartrate fatburn runs. Sometimes I run carrying 1lb weights in each hand.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ono

Personally i've never really been able to work out the benefit Boxer's gain from 4 mile jogs. It's purely an aerobic workout whereas Boxing is more of an anaerobic sport. I would have thought interval running would have the most benefit.

Even for weight loss (to make weight for a fight) it would still make more sense (to me) to do intervals seen as though short intense forms of cardio are the best for fat loss while wanting to maintain muscle tissue.

Can anybody enlighten me? There must be benefits that i'm missing.

---

The primary benefit although most don't realise it, is that it strengthens the legs and allows the fighter to sustain more punishment without the egs buckling.

Hav eyou ever watched a fighte where the fighter was reported not to do much roadwork and if he gest knocke dout it's usually because he lost his legs and got caught.

I'll try think of a few examples.

---

Yeh i get ya. Heard it a few times.

In theory could weight-lifting (squats, deadlifts etc...) play just as important a role, or at least be used to compliment road work?

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I've heard opinions that support this idea.
There is one guy at my gym in particular, who is adamant I should squat.

I think we're still talking 2 different types of strength and within different ranges of movement. I think both would have their benefits.

As for long runs burning fat - they do that. Once you train long enough to deplete all your glycogen stores you have to burn fat after that - typically I think that time is assumed to be at around the 2 hour mark.

If you do this weekly you can train your body to burn fat more efficiently and that's when it becomes really beneficial to keeping your weight down. In my experience you also need to be careful not to loose too much upper body muscle though and it can be hard to strike a good balance.

Until you train long enough to use up all your glycogen stores you might benefit more from shorter more intense workouts though and over a shorter period they will burn more calories.

I think the cardio and running training you do might be best tailored to your individual needs and also of course depending on what you enjoy doing. I sit a bit above my fight weight (which is bantam so typically a lean division) and have to be slightly underweight when I compete so this kind of training makes that easier for me to do without being too obsessed by my calorie intake.

I just enjoy it too and have met a lot of interesting people through running with them including a lot of my closest friends!

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I think we're still talking 2 different types of strength and within different ranges of movement. I think both would have their benefits.

As for long runs burning fat - they do that. Once you train long enough to deplete all your glycogen stores you have to burn fat after that - typically I think that time is assumed to be at around the 2 hour mark.

If you do this weekly you can train your body to burn fat more efficiently and that's when it becomes really beneficial to keeping your weight down. In my experience you also need to be careful not to loose too much upper body muscle though and it can be hard to strike a good balance.

Until you train long enough to use up all your glycogen stores you might benefit more from shorter more intense workouts though and over a shorter period they will burn more calories.

I think the cardio and running training you do might be best tailored to your individual needs and also of course depending on what you enjoy doing. I sit a bit above my fight weight (which is bantam so typically a lean division) and have to be slightly underweight when I compete so this kind of training makes that easier for me to do without being too obsessed by my calorie intake.

I just enjoy it too and have met a lot of interesting people through running with them including a lot of my closest friends!

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This makes a lot of sense I think. I think it is good that I am no longer just jogging and have replaced it with sprints. Part of my training goal is increasing upper body strength, as well as explosiveness and torso and leg strength. I still do jog but not nearly as much, and like with other workouts I make sure to load up on the supplements right after to not have the workout eat into my upper body due to a lack of fat. Make sense?

I've taken two weeks off from much running and I feel great. Faster, more stamina, fitter.

Strange.

You don't even have to use weights, see how many full body weight squats you can do in a row (full ones, back straight and going right down). It gets extremely intense, especially the first time when the lactic acid starts kicking in. My aim is to get to 500 in a row, right now im up to about 230 and one of the most dreaded parts of my workouts. You shouldn't rely on one exercise to condition a part of your body, use a variety to gain the most benefit cardio and the legs are no different.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

The primary benefit although most don't realise it, is that it strengthens the legs and allows the fighter to sustain more punishment without the egs buckling.

Hav eyou ever watched a fighte where the fighter was reported not to do much roadwork and if he gest knocke dout it's usually because he lost his legs and got caught.

I'll try think of a few examples.

---

Was about to post this. I agree that leg strength is vital. One old school example is Marciano who did ridicilous road work and was never unsteady on his legs.

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Great point Bomp.

Take a close look at Marciano's physique.
He would have been a middleweight if it were not for his legs!!!

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In this case it has more to do with his God given genes than as an effect of his roadwork. For more examples, just look at tree trunk legged fighters such as Liston or Tua. The strong legs were already there, it just needed to be conditioned for the long haul.

Marciano was one dedicated son of a gun, reinforced by other dedicated son of a guns.

From a biography that on him that I found, he'd get up as early as 3:30 a.m. to do his roadwork, and the distances would get progressively longer as the date of the fight closed in. He was also a big on going for long walks, covering many miles at a time to the point where his friend and confidant Al Columbo would get too tired to keep up with him. While on these walks he also had a habit of squating down to pick up a pebble the tossing it aside which worked his legs further.

Right before he was getting out of boxing his trainer Charlie Goldman saw it coming. He knew that because Rocky was getting tired of going for his long walks that it would only be a matter of time that he would get tired of boxing, and wouldn't you know it.

Anyways on the other end of the leg spectrum you have guys that are light in the ass. Guys like Bob Foster, Tommy Hearns, and even way-back oldtimer Bob Fitzsimmons all had legs like spiders, but conditioned legs are conditioned legs and that's what matters.

I remember Grey/Joe saying in reply to when the subject of leg conditioning came about that your legs just need to strong enough to keep you from falling. Grey often referred to windsprints an idea that's been around for a long time way before tabata intervals, or HIIT was proposed. Simply it was alternating between a walk, sprint and jog, the varieties are endless, and the idea has been around for ages. Why if I'm not mistaken, I remember reading in Bob Fitsimmons would alternate between sprinting and walking between evenly spaced electricity poles, and that was 100 years ago.

I have nothing against the steady jog, it's a good way to burn fat, but I'm more in favor of types of running to trigger the right adaptions in the muscles and the way that body works. Props to Scrap on that one. :)

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Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Bomp

Was about to post this. I agree that leg strength is vital. One old school example is Marciano who did ridicilous road work and was never unsteady on his legs.

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Great point Bomp.

Take a close look at Marciano's physique.
He would have been a middleweight if it were not for his legs!!!

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In this case it has more to do with his God given genes than as an effect of his roadwork. For more examples, just look at tree trunk legged fighters such as Liston or Tua. The strong legs were already there, it just needed to be conditioned for the long haul.

Marciano was one dedicated son of a gun, reinforced by other dedicated son of a guns.

From a biography that on him that I found, he'd get up as early as 3:30 a.m. to do his roadwork, and the distances would get progressively longer as the date of the fight closed in. He was also a big on going for long walks, covering many miles at a time to the point where his friend and confidant Al Columbo would get too tired to keep up with him. While on these walks he also had a habit of squating down to pick up a pebble the tossing it aside which worked his legs further.

Right before he was getting out of boxing his trainer Charlie Goldman saw it coming. He knew that because Rocky was getting tired of going for his long walks that it would only be a matter of time that he would get tired of boxing, and wouldn't you know it.

Anyways on the other end of the leg spectrum you have guys that are light in the ass. Guys like Bob Foster, Tommy Hearns, and even way-back oldtimer Bob Fitzsimmons all had legs like spiders, but conditioned legs are conditioned legs and that's what matters.

I remember Grey/Joe saying in reply to when the subject of leg conditioning came about that your legs just need to strong enough to keep you from falling. Grey often referred to windsprints an idea that's been around for a long time way before tabata intervals, or HIIT was proposed. Simply it was alternating between a walk, sprint and jog, the varieties are endless, and the idea has been around for ages. Why if I'm not mistaken, I remember reading in Bob Fitsimmons would alternate between sprinting and walking between evenly spaced electricity poles, and that was 100 years ago.

I have nothing against the steady jog, it's a good way to burn fat, but I'm more in favor of types of running to trigger the right adaptions in the muscles and the way that body works. Props to Scrap on that one. :)

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Oh I guess I should mention that my Aunt taught me to " go through the gears" alternating my pace although I never hit a sprint apart from the finish.

Great points in that post thanks Chris!

I should also add a couple of examples where legs in bad shape have had a devestating effect on fighters.

One that comes to mind is Tommy Hearns against Marvin Haglar. By Manny's account, Tommy's legs weren't there to begin with, what he blamed on a few guys massaging Tommy's legs before the fight. I don't know what did him in, but having noodles for legs didn't help him that night.

One bad legs in the making was Mike Tyson. His training shifted to the wost as his overall strategy began to fall apart. His muscles got bigger, but his legs got wider, he was beginning to lean and he was getting hit a lot more.

P.S. I haven't including sprinting in my workout, but I always love going flat out on the last stretch of my run. :D It leaves me feeling as cool as a narcisistic greek god on acid, while also leaving my mind so numb that dialing a phone number afterwards feels like calculus. :D

Not a smart move to treat a run like a race, but I'd be lieing if I said it's not fun.

I hear ya on the sprint Chris.

And also on Tyson.
After his comeback he neglected his running, which was actually the source of his power and took to weight lifting. Silly, costly mistake.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I hear ya on the sprint Chris.

And also on Tyson.
After his comeback he neglected his running, which was actually the source of his power and took to weight lifting. Silly, costly mistake.

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In the footage of the young Mike that's around, he does a lot of leg strengthening during his shadow boxing, it was integral to his style that he'd dip or rotate low to avoid a punch on the way in and springing up with a hrad counter.

I used to do weighted squats in the gym when I used to play rugby, but I belive my legs are much stronger and more coordinated now since moving to a more running based training with intense shadowboxing. IMO doing reps of 10 (or whatever) heavy squats will get you conditioned for just that, 10 heavy shoves at a time. If your movement around a ring and slipping and punching involves a lot of knee bends, then the repetitions you require are in the 100's!!

When I started boxing, I skipped predominatly using the calves to bounce over the rope, and my footwork would be the same. Eventually I figured out that there was no coordination between my footwork and punching. I remedied this by initiating the bounce from my thighs (bending the knees) and eventually felt in more control of my body through the hips and torso. While actually boxing I don't dip my knees much obviously, but I find exxaggerating the motion during a few rounds of shadowboxing and skipping have increased the strength in my legs.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I hear ya on the sprint Chris.

And also on Tyson.
After his comeback he neglected his running, which was actually the source of his power and took to weight lifting. Silly, costly mistake.

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In the footage of the young Mike that's around, he does a lot of leg strengthening during his shadow boxing, it was integral to his style that he'd dip or rotate low to avoid a punch on the way in and springing up with a hrad counter.

I used to do weighted squats in the gym when I used to play rugby, but I belive my legs are much stronger and more coordinated now since moving to a more running based training with intense shadowboxing. IMO doing reps of 10 (or whatever) heavy squats will get you conditioned for just that, 10 heavy shoves at a time. If your movement around a ring and slipping and punching involves a lot of knee bends, then the repetitions you require are in the 100's!!

When I started boxing, I skipped predominatly using the calves to bounce over the rope, and my footwork would be the same. Eventually I figured out that there was no coordination between my footwork and punching. I remedied this by initiating the bounce from my thighs (bending the knees) and eventually felt in more control of my body through the hips and torso. While actually boxing I don't dip my knees much obviously, but I find exxaggerating the motion during a few rounds of shadowboxing and skipping have increased the strength in my legs.

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I like this Bomp - i'll have to try it! Thanks for sharing :)

Roberto Duran would also jumprope in a squatting position.

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Originally Posted by Salty

You don't even have to use weights, see how many full body weight squats you can do in a row (full ones, back straight and going right down). It gets extremely intense, especially the first time when the lactic acid starts kicking in. My aim is to get to 500 in a row, right now im up to about 230 and one of the most dreaded parts of my workouts. You shouldn't rely on one exercise to condition a part of your body, use a variety to gain the most benefit cardio and the legs are no different.

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Going right down is crucial IMO. In my dumb weights days I'd just jump in to an excercise without really appreciating what the specific goals were. I did weighted squats for months before realising I wasn't going down low enough due to tight harmstringd and quads, this was obviously making the situation even worse.

Sharla: Be careful when trying new excercises;), look out for extra pressure on joints and that. When I exxaggerate the knee bend during skipping I dos so flat footed, with most of the weight over the sole of my foot (also during any squat) I find this takes away strain on the knees, though I believe opinions vary on this and it may differ from person to person, I'm no expert on biomechanics but I have a fair idea from trial and error(:-\) what works for me.

Chris: I've quite recently watched training videos of Duran, and it's only now I've started to realise what a true technician he really was rather than just a Neanderthal bruiser. Skipping squats is one of my short term goals, they're far more difficult to do than they look, I can manage to do them without the rope at the moment.

Thanks Bomp I'll keep that in mind :)