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Design the best Heavyweight built from others have to have been world champions to qualify
Mind - Muhammad Ali
Chin - Oliver McCall
Speed - Mike Tyson
Jab - Larry Holmes
Power - Vitali Klitschko
Heart - Evander Holyfield
Worst
Mind - Oliver McCall
Chin - Wladimir Klischko
Speed - Nikolay Valuev
Jab - George Foreman
Power - Leon Spinks
Heart - Sonny Liston
Good choices fella
Mine:
Mind - Lennox Lewis
Chin - George Chuvalho
Speed - Muhammad Ali
Jab - Larry Holmes
Power - George Foreman
Heart - Jim Braddock
Mind - Jack Johnson
Chin - Chuvalo
Speed - Ali
Jab - Larry Holmes
Power - Sonny Liston
Heart - Floyd Patterson - anyone who gets up six times in a fight is either very brave or very stupid !!!
I tried to pick some different fighters but speed - Ali and jab - Holmes there were not really any other choices.
Mind - Lennox Lewis
Chin - Oliver Mcall
Speed - Ali
Jab - Larry Holmes
Power - Tyson
Heart - Holyfield
I think that fighter would have everything covered .
Pretty close to my way of thinking id just swap -Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Power to Foreman.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlPretty close to my way of thinking id just swap -Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Power to Foreman.:)
I was gonna pick Foreman . It was between them two. I just thought of Tysons ferocity and Foremans plodding and that was the clincher for me.
The Foreman who destroyed Frazier was no plodder , and in my opinion would have eaten a prime Tyson(1986 ) alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMEQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlPretty close to my way of thinking id just swap -Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Power to Foreman.:)
I was gonna pick Foreman . It was between them two. I just thought of Tysons ferocity and Foremans plodding and that was the clincher for me.
Just take Joe Louis and George Foreman and mix them together
Still Tyson is number 1 for me.Muhammad Ali next and Foreman 3rd.:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlThe Foreman who destroyed Frazier was no plodder , and in my opinion would have eaten a prime Tyson(1986 ) alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMEQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
I was gonna pick Foreman . It was between them two. I just thought of Tysons ferocity and Foremans plodding and that was the clincher for me.
Its a tough 1 to call IMO . Theres a chance that Foremans brute force would make Tyson crumble but on the other side of the coin . Tyson was far quicker and Foreman has been decked by guys like Lyle and Ali
I think George was just too open, he spent a lot of his earlier fight days with his hands by he waist not even thinking about defence and swinging those massive hooks in, don't get me wrong if one landed you are in big trouble but I think Tyson in his prime would have been too quick and put his punches together too well. Speed, Power and accuracy beat brute strength and power any day for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMEQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlThe Foreman who destroyed Frazier was no plodder , and in my opinion would have eaten a prime Tyson(1986 ) alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Its a tough 1 to call IMO . Theres a chance that Foremans brute force would make Tyson crumble but on the other side of the coin . Tyson was far quicker and Foreman has been decked by guys like Lyle and Ali
I didn't see workrate so I'll add it. Marciano and Frazier and for the chin David Tua has to be up there.
Another thing that's funny who probably has one of the worst chins Wladimir Klitschko who has one of the best chins Vitali Klitschko.
It's the little things in life that amuse me.
Tua did get knockout in the amateurs by Felix Savon though, and was down against Rahman, although not hurt. McCall was Tyson's cheif sparring partner and apparently has never been on the canvas in the ring or in the gym, thats toughQuote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
Have to agree with the work rate, Frazier was a machine, that boy just kept coming
Earnie Shavers would be power for me.
Mind - Ali
Chin - Holyfield
Speed - Tyson
Jab - Larry Holmes
Power - Foreman
Heart - Holyfield
I know for chin that you may find Holyfield a strange choice, but he had an iron chin and would take bombs in order to get his own punches in time and time again.
the combination of speed an power id give to tyson. Over all Ali. He hurt guys with his fists and words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbtandyTua did get knockout in the amateurs by Felix Savon though, and was down against Rahman, although not hurt. McCall was Tyson's cheif sparring partner and apparently has never been on the canvas in the ring or in the gym, thats toughQuote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
Have to agree with the work rate, Frazier was a machine, that boy just kept coming
McCall and Tyson supposedly dropped each other around 5 times through their sparring
Mind - Ali
Chin - Oliver Mcall
Speed - Tyson
Jab - Larry Holmes
Power - Foreman
Heart - Rocky
Conditioning - Holyfield
mind - ali
chin - chuvalo
hand speed - tyson
footwork - ali
stamina - marciano
punch power - shavers
money punch - fraziers left hook
heart - holyfield
longevity - joe louis ( no ones ever come near his time and defences as champ )
Mind - Muhammad Ali
Chin - George Chuvalo
Speed - Muhammad Ali
Jab - Larry Holmes
Straight Right - Lennox Lewis
Right Hook - Mike Tyson
Left Hook - Joe Frazier
Power - Ernie Shavers
Heart - Evander Holyfield
If I have to break it down...
Mental makeup: Joe Louis - he came to win every fight he had, he was the greatest champion, the toughest physically and mentally. If Joe put his mind to it he could have beaten ANYONE
Physical makeup: Prime George Foreman 6'4 220-230 - The most intimidating person you could ever set foot in the ring with. He was HUGE for that time but not so big to where he was clumsy and he was rugged.
Chin: George Chuvalo - He got KO'd before but he didn't get knocked down and he fought Frazier AND Foreman
Footwork: Riddick Bowe - everyone talks about Ali's footwork but with Ali he didn't sit on his punches and get the big power off of them and Riddick did! Riddick could stick and move and he could stalk someone down he was VERY athletic.
Hand Speed: Muhamed Ali - Ali could throw punches really quick when he wanted to and in bunches too.
Power: Vitali Klitschko - He doesn't really have that 1 shotgun blast type of power but he's KO'd all but 1 guy who he has beaten and he has stopped guys in late rounds. He accumulates punishment, can KO someone with a combination, AND he carries his power late into fights.
Jab: Wladimir Klitschko - It's basically a power punch when he throws it...I think it's more dominant than Larry Holmes' jab but maybe that's just me.
Right Cross: Joe Louis - He threw it quick, straight, was always in range AND it was devistating.
Left Hook: Joe Frazier - Come on, did anyone bar Tyson have a hook that came close to matching Joe's???
Uppercut: (right) Lennox Lewis/ (left) Mike Tyson - Lennox had a longer uppercut and probably more powerful but Tyson's was faster and devistating as well.
Right Hook: George Foreman - when he threw it and landed it, it hurt everyone who watched it.
Overhand Right: Rocky Marciano's 'Suzy Q' - The one he landed on Joe Walcott might be the hardest anyone has EVER hit someone
To Lyle re klitsckos jab vs Larry Holmes..
yes.....its just you....
But seriously.... both klits have good strong straight jabs due to thier style and excellent schooling. Tall strong and long armed.
BUT! Larrys jab was like a 2x4 coming at you end on. it really fuckin hurt. ( wil i be banned AGaiN for swearing?)
What about a punch breakdown ie best left hook right cross etc?
Don't understand why you would mix and match all these fighters? :confused:
Mine is simple, Jack Johnson. :cool:
landmines answer:Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
Nikolay Valuev :D
I see Oliver McCall listed a lot for "best chin." I'll admit to being a bit biased against McCall, especially after his nuclear meltdown against Lewis in their 2nd fight. To me he's a wasted talent, who caught a lucky break against a careless Lewis and had his 2 seconds of fame. The rematch was shameful, and everyone in attendance should've gotten their money back.
Best chin to me is Holyfield.
You think Jack Johnson is better than Joe Louis???Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I don't recall Jack Johnson getting KO'd by Max Schmelling.
I don't recall Joe Louis getting KO'd by a guy named Jess ;D
I agree, since that only happened when Johnson was THIRTY SEVEN years old in the TWENTY SIXTH ROUND. Nice catch there beany:)
Joe Louis lost 3 fights out of 72....Jack Johnson drew 12 and lost 14 (7 by KO) out of 123 fights ....and hell even some of the ones he won were fixed
You didn't ask who was greater. You asked who was better. Huge difference there:)
....well what makes Johnson better the fact that he fought and beat a middleweight??? WOW he's awesome :rolleyes:
Joe Louis fought and destroyed more men as champion than anyone in the history of heavyweight boxing
5 words for you:
bum of the month club!
conversation over:)
Yeah no doubt but he beat all those guys by KO as he was supposed to.....who is Joe Jenette?? Who is Joe Choyinski???Quote:
Originally Posted by match
Joe Louis only got beat by other GREAT heavyweight fighters and later in his career (bar the Schmelling fight). And he avenged his loss to Schmelling in impressive fashion.
None of us were even thinking about being born when either Jack Johnson OR Joe Louis were fighting. But I find it hard to get excited about someone fighting in grainy black and white films, with fists curled upwards in the old style of fighting, and the grace and quickness of two rhinos fighting over dinner. Styles change... fighters get better. Face it.
Advantage: Louis
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I have to issues with your statement... firstly watch the grainy, black and white films more closely and you will notice Johnson was nothing like a Rhino... in fact he was so adept at reading, reacting and defending an opponent he would often block punches by catching them in the air almost like he knew what they were gonna throw before they threw it. . Don't assume that because the medium used to record fighters and fights of the past was poor compared to today that this also means the fighters were of a lesser calibre too.
You made a sweeping statement that fighters get better... in general terms I agree... better training, better knowledge of diet and how the body works. Boxing is perhaps more of a science now then it has ever been. However fighters from the past would fight to the finish 20 - 30 - 40+ rounds... maybe throwing less punches per round than todays fighters but still imagine for a moment fighting for 40 rounds and the amount of punishment the body and mind would have to absorb. It's truly amazing.
There are probably a greater depth of good quality fighters around now but there are certain fighters who would have been great no matter what era they fought in. Louis, Marciano, Ali, Johnson, Tyson, Robinson, Hagler, Duran, Leonard, Barrera, Cotto these guys were born to do what they do and would have done it to an exceptional level whatever period of history they were born in.
I'm trying to respect your view point but in a way what you said dismisses some of the golden years and timless heroes of the sport I love and I find that hard to accept.
Very well put, Shamrock. For someone with just over 100 posts, you argue very wisely. I guess it's just that I'm not crazy about the style of boxing way back when. Johnson may have been dominant in his age, but I have problems seeing him with the same dominance if matched up against some of the all-time greats from the later eras. Joe Louis is about as far back as I can watch fights that truly entertain me. Beyond that, the style bores me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShamrockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I have to issues with your statement... firstly watch the grainy, black and white films more closely and you will notice Johnson was nothing like a Rhino... in fact he was so adept at reading, reacting and defending an opponent he would often block punches by catching them in the air almost like he knew what they were gonna throw before they threw it. . Don't assume that because the medium used to record fighters and fights of the past was poor compared to today that this also means the fighters were of a lesser calibre too.
You made a sweeping statement that fighters get better... in general terms I agree... better training, better knowledge of diet and how the body works. Boxing is perhaps more of a science now then it has ever been. However fighters from the past would fight to the finish 20 - 30 - 40+ rounds... maybe throwing less punches per round than todays fighters but still imagine for a moment fighting for 40 rounds and the amount of punishment the body and mind would have to absorb. It's truly amazing.
There are probably a greater depth of good quality fighters around now but there are certain fighters who would have been great no matter what era they fought in. Louis, Marciano, Ali, Johnson, Tyson, Robinson, Hagler, Duran, Leonard, Barrera, Cotto these guys were born to do what they do and would have done it to an exceptional level whatever period of history they were born in.
I'm trying to respect your view point but in a way what you said dismisses some of the golden years and timless heroes of the sport I love and I find that hard to accept.
Have some good rep for expressing your opinion so well.
:)
Thanks man !Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanVery well put, Shamrock. For someone with just over 100 posts, you argue very wisely. I guess it's just that I'm not crazy about the style of boxing way back when. Johnson may have been dominant in his age, but I have problems seeing him with the same dominance if matched up against some of the all-time greats from the later eras. Joe Louis is about as far back as I can watch fights that truly entertain me. Beyond that, the style bores me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShamrockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I have to issues with your statement... firstly watch the grainy, black and white films more closely and you will notice Johnson was nothing like a Rhino... in fact he was so adept at reading, reacting and defending an opponent he would often block punches by catching them in the air almost like he knew what they were gonna throw before they threw it. . Don't assume that because the medium used to record fighters and fights of the past was poor compared to today that this also means the fighters were of a lesser calibre too.
You made a sweeping statement that fighters get better... in general terms I agree... better training, better knowledge of diet and how the body works. Boxing is perhaps more of a science now then it has ever been. However fighters from the past would fight to the finish 20 - 30 - 40+ rounds... maybe throwing less punches per round than todays fighters but still imagine for a moment fighting for 40 rounds and the amount of punishment the body and mind would have to absorb. It's truly amazing.
There are probably a greater depth of good quality fighters around now but there are certain fighters who would have been great no matter what era they fought in. Louis, Marciano, Ali, Johnson, Tyson, Robinson, Hagler, Duran, Leonard, Barrera, Cotto these guys were born to do what they do and would have done it to an exceptional level whatever period of history they were born in.
I'm trying to respect your view point but in a way what you said dismisses some of the golden years and timless heroes of the sport I love and I find that hard to accept.
Have some good rep for expressing your opinion so well.
:)
Yeah I appreciate it is hard to to visualise how someone like Johnson would have competed with more modern fighters when there is so limited footage of him.
I kinda get carried away defending boxings past but I'm pleased you took my reply in the spirit it was meant. Respect Tito ;)
Shamrock is changing his name to Nostalgia