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I went through most of my life believing that Marvin Hagler was robbed against Sugar Ray Leonard, however after watching the fight again in a lot more detail I actually surprised myself in scoring SRL as the winner of the fight, Hagler threw away a lot of rounds especially the first few boxing as a southpaw. I actually scored the fight 117-113 to SRL
If anyone is interested in reading how I scored it
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I thought Ray won by a round or two.
Was going to do a poll about this.
AGAIN!
I think Ray also threw alot of rounds away by running and fighting like an amateur I had for Hagler 8 rounds to 4
Every time I score it I have it 6 rounds a piece, Hagler gave some vital rounds away early.
117-113 is way too wide IMO it was a very close fight and no more than 2 rounds in it either way. Hagler was stupid and over confident in the first 4 rounds he tried to box Leonard instead of attacking, and if i remember right he was even fighting orthodox instead of Southpaw for a lot of the first 4 rounds, i personally had the fight a draw, Leonard won the first 4 rounds clearly IMO, and Hagler come on strong in the middle rounds, Hagler was 1 point up going into the 12th, but Leonard out punched Hagler in the 12th to get a draw. But if the fight had been 15 rounds like it should of been until Leonard changed that, Leonard would of been stopped round about the 14th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbtandy
I had it 115-113 Leonard
Here is how I had it
Leonard 10 ROUND1 Hagler 9
Leonard 10 ROUND2 Hagler 9
Leonard 10 ROUND3 Hagler 9
Leonard 10 ROUND4 Hagler 9
Hagler 10 ROUND5 Leonard 9
Leonard 10 ROUND6 Hagler 9
Hagler 10 ROUND7 Leonard 9
Hagler 10 ROUND8 Leonard 9
Hagler 10 ROUND9 Leonard 9
EVEN 10 ROUND10 EVEN 10
Leonard 10 ROUND11 Hagler 9
Hagler 10 ROUND12 Leonard 9
Leonard 115- 114 Hagler
at the time i bet on Ray , and i also thought he won , but looking back it was a harsh was to loses a title after such along time , maybe a draw would have been fairer as it was hard to score.The crowd played a pretty big part also.
Never thought it was anywhere near a robbery. Just a lot of people that either disliked Ray personally or his fighting style as it compared to Hagler's.
I had SRL winning by a round although I wanted Hagler to hurt him bad at the time. After watching that fight a few times over the years SRL was a great boxer who knew how to nick a fight, showy flurries and great footwork made Hagler look slow at times. One thing I still dont understand is Haglers corner the Pettroneli brothers total lack of passion, you could see SRL was nicking rounds and they never told him he had too really put the pressure on and Knock out SRL to win the fight. It also should of been a fifteen round fight.
I believe Hagler thought he would beat him and even stop him, he smiled at him in one round when he landed a big punch and saw Leonard hurt but Leonard bravely fought on and nicked rounds because they were amazed at what he was doing.
My stance has always been this:
I thought Hagler narrowly won the fight.. I believe I scored it 115-114.
That being said, I think Halger has only himself to blame for the fight being so close and therefore left up to the judges. He fought tentative early on, when he should have been pressuring Leonard right from the opening bell.
That was Hagler's aggorance he hated Leonard so he wanted to try and embarrass Leonard by showing him that he could out box him as well as out brawl him etc. But that cost him big time he should of used that hate in a different way by going all out and swarm all over him from the opening bell.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
ICE you are not far from the truth , i always felt Marvin's comments about KNOCKING Ray out whenever he chose to ,hence as you say he gave away the first few rounds boxing orthadox trying to out box Ray ,this really made a difference to the scoring as of course Ray went the distance , which in turn round by round the crowed shouted more for Ray , which always makes the judges think about whos winning close rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBThat was Hagler's aggorance he hated Leonard so he wanted to try and embarrass Leonard by showing him that he could out box him as well as out brawl him etc. But that cost him big time he should of used that hate in a different way by going all out and swarm all over him from the opening bell.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I didn't know till last night that Leonard was coming off a fucking 5 year layoff! I thought it was only like 1 or 2 tops, but 5 years!!!
Regardless of the BS decision or what you wanna call it, he fought impressievely for comin off such inactivity.
In negotiations Sugar Ray barged in and demanded "15 rounds, Cleto Reyes Gloves and an 18 x 18 ring."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
Hageler reacted angrily "screw you I'm the champ 12 rounds Everlast Gloves and a 21 x 21 ring"
Ray smiled and said ok you're the champ.
Mindgames.
;D;D, fucking hell is that true?Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyIn negotiations Sugar Ray barged in and demanded "15 rounds, Cleto Reyes Gloves and an 18 x 18 ring."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
Hageler reacted angrily "screw you I'm the champ 12 rounds Everlast Gloves and a 21 x 21 ring"
Ray smiled and said ok you're the champ.
Mindgames.
Then Leaonard deserved to win, he outsmarted Hagler.
Like most said, IMO Hagler blew it, he tried to be clever instead of fighting his fight which would have been more than enough at that stage of their careers.
It's on the Suns DVD "Best of Boxing" Its an interview with Leonard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp;D;D, fucking hell is that true?Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyIn negotiations Sugar Ray barged in and demanded "15 rounds, Cleto Reyes Gloves and an 18 x 18 ring."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
Hageler reacted angrily "screw you I'm the champ 12 rounds Everlast Gloves and a 21 x 21 ring"
Ray smiled and said ok you're the champ.
Mindgames.
Then Leaonard deserved to win, he outsmarted Hagler.
Like most said, IMO Hagler blew it, he tried to be clever instead of fighting his fight which would have been more than enough at that stage of their careers.
Thanks for that info, bad decision by Hagler IMO I would of gone for 15 rounds and a 18ft ring all day long, knowing that Leonard was coming back after a five year layoff what a Jedi move that was ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyIt's on the Suns DVD "Best of Boxing" Its an interview with Leonard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp;D;D, fucking hell is that true?Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Then Leaonard deserved to win, he outsmarted Hagler.
Like most said, IMO Hagler blew it, he tried to be clever instead of fighting his fight which would have been more than enough at that stage of their careers.
Oh big time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean DukeThanks for that info, bad decision by Hagler IMO I would of gone for 15 rounds and a 18ft ring all day long, knowing that Leonard was coming back after a five year layoff what a Jedi move that was ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyIt's on the Suns DVD "Best of Boxing" Its an interview with Leonard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
The everlast gloves favoured Leonard too, although Hagler was accustomed to them himself.
The ring size was hugely in Leonards favour.
That's not true I heard that Ray gave in to all of Haglers concessions as long as it was 12 rounds. Hagler was told that there would be no fight if it was 15 rounds.
Also the 5 year lay off impressed everyone including two of the judges when they should have concentrated on the fight and who was actually landing the damaging punches and working throughout the round. Also that the challenger had to take the title away from the champion.
It wasn't 5 year lay off it was 3 year lay off, remember he fought Kevin Howard in 1984, he was knocked down in that fight, and Hagler was laughing at ringside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
there was only something like 15 punches between as far as punch states go, but most of rays hit haglars gloves and arms, marvin landed the better shot, and like haglar says everytime he had ray going the bell would save him.........ray never shook haglar but haglar shook him a few times, ray did the pita patter thing and stole rounds of idiot judges, i even heard one of the judges say on the lengedary nights show that ray was landing solid shots when he rarely did................it once again comes down to weather a judge likes you or not.
haglar never trusted judges and only roberto duran took him all the way while champ, in that fight he pured it on in the last 3 rounds to make sure of victory, he then lost to ray, i've always felt haglar won, there were moments in the fight which were embaraceing, leonard running away around the ring, hitting gloves and getting the round, disgrace
Not what Ray says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And the commentators remarked that the size of the ring greatly favoured Ray and they were wearing everlasts.
Ray talks shit, he is trying to make Hagler look a dick an is exaggerating the mind games that he was having.
Ray Leonard won the fight landed more controled the pace and the ring generalship as well. Watch the fight so much not even funny have Ray winning ever time but doesn't matter what i say Ray while alwasy have the win in the record books so i guess that good enough for me.
thanks for the neg rep MR140........YOU SAID...." More to scoring fights then landing harder shots Ray was landing more and had ring gernal ship "........ FACTS ARE HE ONLY LANDED 15 MORE, NO LANDSLIDE, AND HAGLAR WAS PRESSING FORWARD LANDING THE MORE TELLING SHOTS................... I WAS GONER NEG REP BACK BUT I'VE NEVER DONE THAT TO ANYONE, AND RESPECT EVERYONES FREE TO AIR THERE VIEWS ABOUT FIGHTS, BOXERS ETC ETC..................... I DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL WHEN SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING AGAINST A BOXER I'M A FAN OF...........SEEMS YOU DO........... GOOD DAY TO YA SON
Like I said (and posted my card) I thinl Leonard nicked it (and I massively wanted Hagler to win) but I can't see how anybody would not have it any more than 1 round either way
My opinion is that SRL won based on the fact that he did more of what he wanted to do than Hagler. Who would've guessed that he'd get by with some of the antics he pulled in that fight? Better yet, how many times during it did you say " He's going down, this is it ", only for him to turn around and unleash a hellacious flurry and work his way out of the corner/off the ropes?
SRL fought his fight a little more than Hagler fought his, and because of that, I have to agree with the decision. Now, do I think it's not debatable? Hell no. This is one of the few instances in a situation like this where both sides of the argument have just as much validity.
I've never seen the punchstats for this fight where did you see them ??Quote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULL