Scoring Punches; The Witter fight

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

Dunno what that was about either...Spose he had to look like he was doing something though. Im more gutted for Witter cos i feel he should have had a shot at Hatton.

See everyone now going on about how they were write about Ricky not ducking Witter.Ricky just waited for someone else to do the job for him....Why didn't he do it himself (off topic but probably last chance i got to post today though)

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Originally Posted by Tins06

Dunno what that was about either...Spose he had to look like he was doing something though. Im more gutted for Witter cos i feel he should have had a shot at Hatton.

See everyone now going on about how they were write about Ricky not ducking Witter.Ricky just waited for someone else to do the job for him....Why didn't he do it himself (off topic but probably last chance i got to post today though)

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In the days before the fight I mentioned a theory I had.

Witter is past his prime.
He took Bradley assuming that this obscure fringe contender wouldn't be enough to beat him and he would defend again.

Hatton was Witter's meal ticket. Witter didn't actually care about the fight. A win woiuld be great, but it was the money he was actually after.
The tilte and a few defenses was a great bargaining tool and he had the media eating from his hand.

As I said, Witter didn't care about the fight, he cared about the money he could make from Hatton.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Tins06

Dunno what that was about either...Spose he had to look like he was doing something though. Im more gutted for Witter cos i feel he should have had a shot at Hatton.

See everyone now going on about how they were write about Ricky not ducking Witter.Ricky just waited for someone else to do the job for him....Why didn't he do it himself (off topic but probably last chance i got to post today though)

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In the days before the fight I mentioned a theory I had.

Witter is past his prime.
He took Bradley assuming that this obscure fringe contender wouldn't be enough to beat him and he would defend again.

Hatton was Witter's meal ticket. Witter didn't actually care about the fight. A win woiuld be great, but it was the money he was actually after.
The tilte and a few defenses was a great bargaining tool and he had the media eating from his hand.

As I said, Witter didn't care about the fight, he cared about the money he could make from Hatton.

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I've always thought that anyway. I don't think he is past his prime just on that performance when he looked equally as bad against Lynes, Kotelnik and N'Dou

I'll have to admit here I never saw the Kotelnik fight.

The reason I'll say I saw him age was because of his reflexes.

Sure in any Witter fight of any year there are times where he would do nothing, but he would be defensively minded in those periods and his footwork and reflexes would keep him out of trouble allowing him to win rounds on inactivity!
Last Sat. the relexes and speed were faded and if you watch the knockdown in slow, his legs were very weighty.

All of this means that Witter Barked too much and didnt nothing on that fight with Bradley , right Donny?...............;D

I agree. Witter did nothing in my opinion. If it wasn't for home cookin, that fight shouldn't have been close. Only way he won rounds was if they give points for hugging. He must have been sparring with John Ruiz.;D

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Originally Posted by Macho

All of this means that Witter Barked too much and didnt nothing on that fight with Bradley , right Donny?...............;D

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Right Macho!;D

Its something he does, yet another ploy to look like he's winning a fight 'look I dont have to hold on Im throwing punches' rather than actually getting on with trying to win it.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Its something he does, yet another ploy to look like he's winning a fight 'look I dont have to hold on Im throwing punches' rather than actually getting on with trying to win it.

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But in this instance it was completely futile and he knew it:confused:

Its always futile, doesnt stop him doing it.

Its kidology. Like I said on the night, I think most of the time he is trying to kid himself, no one else buys into it.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Its always futile, doesnt stop him doing it.

Its kidology. Like I said on the night, I think most of the time he is trying to kid himself, no one else buys into it.

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It's silly, really irratating too.

I just find him frustrating to watch.

Bradley studied Witter very carefully before the fight. He just simply did his homework that night and got a B+ grade.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

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He did the same thing against Judah.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

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He did the same thing against Judah.

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I felt the Judah fight showed a Witter that was intimidated, not only out of his gameplan, but also out of any chance of victory.

Do you consider it a possibility that when Bradley "turned up the heat" and indeed volume after Round six, Witter was not able to cope mentally with the mental toll such a physical fight was having on him?

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Its always futile, doesnt stop him doing it.

Its kidology. Like I said on the night, I think most of the time he is trying to kid himself, no one else buys into it.

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The thing is a lot of folk on here and the majority of the British sporting press bought into it.

Saturday only really highlighted what i've been saying about him ever since he beat Harris.
He looked great against him because Harris is not mentally capable of beating an awkward opponent. He always tends to fight his opponents fight. Even when he beat a blown up Stevie Johnston he did his absolute best to make it as difficult as possible. Vivian Harris just isn't a good fighter imo.

I think Witter can probably come back and at least challenge for another world title but that's only because the belt holders and contenders at 140 (apart from Hatton and maybe Paulie)are pretty average fighters.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Its always futile, doesnt stop him doing it.

Its kidology. Like I said on the night, I think most of the time he is trying to kid himself, no one else buys into it.

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The thing is a lot of folk on here and the majority of the British sporting press bought into it.

Saturday only really highlighted what i've been saying about him ever since he beat Harris.
He looked great against him because Harris is not mentally capable of beating an awkward opponent. He always tends to fight his opponents fight. Even when he beat a blown up Stevie Johnston he did his absolute best to make it as difficult as possible. Vivian Harris just isn't a good fighter imo.

I think Witter can probably come back and at least challenge for another world title but that's only because the belt holders and contenders at 140 (apart from Hatton and maybe Paulie)are pretty average fighters.

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Witter has blown hot and cold throughout his career. Witter-Hatton had NOTHING to do with his showing against Harris.

It was after 8 years chasing Ricky there was finally an oppotunity for the fight to happen. Because Ricky wasn't fighting in AMERICA and fighting against the ELITE - Cotto, Floyd, Oscar etc.. it was time for Ricky to stop the excuses.

Fortunately he now has a genuine one. ;)

One point;

A Hatton/Witter fight would not have been a treat for fans.

It would have been a significant fight, but not a pleasing spectacle, so fans have lost nothing.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

One point;

A Hatton/Witter fight would not have been a treat for fans.

It would have been a significant fight, but not a pleasing spectacle, so fans have lost nothing.

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Kids like you have lost nothing because you don't rememeber or know the history.


You're right though Hatton-Witter would have been a mess.

But unless two fighters meet it's IMPOSSIBLE to ever know who the better man was. Obviously on accomplishments it's Hatton hands-down.. but he'll always be questioned for ducking Witter.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

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Those are more out of frustration then anything....Some guys use them on the inside to rattle a guy and deter him from being in the clence...some guys will keep hitting the same spot so after a while it becomes tender and a good place to target....Wittert though was not doing that....He just wanted to land something...anything...The whole fight was UGLY to be honest....Witter just did nothing?....I don't understand why...he could have won that fight had he moved more and just kept jabbin...hell that is the only punch he needed that night...the first 3 rounds he looked great almost as if this was going to be an education then he just fizzled out....

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

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He did the same thing against Judah.

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I felt the Judah fight showed a Witter that was intimidated, not only out of his gameplan, but also out of any chance of victory.

Do you consider it a possibility that when Bradley "turned up the heat" and indeed volume after Round six, Witter was not able to cope mentally with the mental toll such a physical fight was having on him?

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I think mentally Witter had lost this fight before it began, you could see he was not 100% focused to begin with and by the time the knockdown happened. Bradley was absolutely correct when he said Witter was thinking of Hatton. I think Witter trying to gain his mental center was a lost cause. How often does this happen, a fighter ignores the fight in front of him and gets clowned.

I think Witter also has a bit of Judah syndrome, where has shown he can't adjust. He's great when everything is working for him, but he can't stop himself from falling apart.

Witter wasn't throwing any punches to score, he had no work rate at all it was ridiculous. He didn't fight like a champion at all, Bradley wasn't that good either IMO.

Witter looked flat. That was the crappiest I've seen him, after about halfway through his punches were weak. His stupid snake charmer jab was about one of the dumbest things I've seen in the ring next to Litzau's frog leap. Just makes em look stupid doesn't do anything, and isn't effective. It's just a wannabe Sugar Ray Leonard impression IMO.

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Originally Posted by luvfightgame

I agree. Witter did nothing in my opinion. If it wasn't for home cookin, that fight shouldn't have been close. Only way he won rounds was if they give points for hugging. He must have been sparring with John Ruiz.;D

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I agree. I was worried when it took so long to get the scorecards tabulated. I figured Bradley was going to get screwed.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

One point;

A Hatton/Witter fight would not have been a treat for fans.

It would have been a significant fight, but not a pleasing spectacle, so fans have lost nothing.

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Kids like you have lost nothing because you don't rememeber or know the history.


You're right though Hatton-Witter would have been a mess.

But unless two fighters meet it's IMPOSSIBLE to ever know who the better man was. Obviously on accomplishments it's Hatton hands-down.. but he'll always be questioned for ducking Witter.

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Kids like me live boxing every second of every day.

Kids like me get to socialise with the fighters in their environment and kids like me actually get to speak with the fighters on the subject rather than formulating unresearched opinions based on bias and persoanl emotion.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

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Those are more out of frustration then anything....Some guys use them on the inside to rattle a guy and deter him from being in the clence...some guys will keep hitting the same spot so after a while it becomes tender and a good place to target....Wittert though was not doing that....He just wanted to land something...anything...The whole fight was UGLY to be honest....Witter just did nothing?....I don't understand why...he could have won that fight had he moved more and just kept jabbin...hell that is the only punch he needed that night...the first 3 rounds he looked great almost as if this was going to be an education then he just fizzled out....

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Those tiny hooks, I just can't understand.
I donno Daxx, I expected a little one then a big hook, but no....tap, tap, tap....i was really frustrated with his boxing.

I'm shocked that a lot of you are suprised at how poor he was. Like you never saw him fight N'Dou, Kotelnik, Lynes or Judah. It's happened pretty much everytime he's faced anybody in the top 10.

Hatton's excuses for not fighting him were poor. But the occassion would have been a complete fraud and actually Hatton should have taken advantage of it. Let's face it, the media bought into the hype as did a lot of fans.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

One point;

A Hatton/Witter fight would not have been a treat for fans.

It would have been a significant fight, but not a pleasing spectacle, so fans have lost nothing.

---

Kids like you have lost nothing because you don't rememeber or know the history.


You're right though Hatton-Witter would have been a mess.

But unless two fighters meet it's IMPOSSIBLE to ever know who the better man was. Obviously on accomplishments it's Hatton hands-down.. but he'll always be questioned for ducking Witter.

---

Kids like me live boxing every second of every day.

Kids like me get to socialise with the fighters in their environment and kids like me actually get to speak with the fighters on the subject rather than formulating unresearched opinions based on bias and persoanl emotion.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Watching Junior Witter fight the unheralded Timothy Bradley last Saturday night I noticed something which made me wonder.

When in the clinches he employed to defend himself from Bradley's aggressive forward momentum, Witter often used whatever space he had to throw hooks to the head. These hooks were not punishing blows, they would certainly not have hurt Bradley and they also seemed to ineffective to score.

Witter is a very seasoned pro, he knows how to score rounds and this tactic seemed ridiculous when viewing the fight as Bradley was obviously exerting the more force and pressure.
So, why would a knowledgable pro throw these tapping hooks on the inside?
I realise it wasn't a great fight for Witter, yet he did this continuosly despite it's ineffectiveness. Why?

Would you score a tiny, chopping/tapping hook thrown from a clinch, against an opponent throwing much harder and numerous punches:confused:

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Those are more out of frustration then anything....Some guys use them on the inside to rattle a guy and deter him from being in the clence...some guys will keep hitting the same spot so after a while it becomes tender and a good place to target....Wittert though was not doing that....He just wanted to land something...anything...The whole fight was UGLY to be honest....Witter just did nothing?....I don't understand why...he could have won that fight had he moved more and just kept jabbin...hell that is the only punch he needed that night...the first 3 rounds he looked great almost as if this was going to be an education then he just fizzled out....

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Those tiny hooks, I just can't understand.
I donno Daxx, I expected a little one then a big hook, but no....tap, tap, tap....i was really frustrated with his boxing.

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Guys use that little inside shots to soften a spot up when there is a lost of holding...A place to target...during the fight....Key words there are "During the Fight"......Meaning you have to fight:-\....Witter did not fight he just tried to soften up a spot incase he decided to:D