Great Fighters Who Struggled Against Fighters ............

What great fighters struggled against fighters that shouldn't of troubled them on paper.

Mike Weaver vs Larry Holmes
Jim McDonnell vs Azumah Nelson
Doug Jones vs Muhammad Ali
Tony Tubbs vs Riddick Bowe
Jimmy Young vs George Foreman
Junior Jones vs Marco Antonio Barrera
Scott LeDoux vs Ken Norton
Dave Tiberi vs James Toney
James Tillis vs Mike Tyson
Ray Close vs Chris Eubank
Thulani Malinga vs Nigel Benn
Kirkland Laing vs Roberto Duran
Kevin Howard vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Lloyd Honeyghan vs Donald Curry

Theres few to get us started.

That list is a bit inconsistent.

Although underdogs, some of the guys you mentioned were good enough to give ANYONE a decent fight in their pomp.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That list is a bit inconsistent.

Although underdogs, some of the guys you mentioned were good enough to give ANYONE a decent fight in their pomp.

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Im not saying they couldn't but i meant on paper "before" the fights that most people didn't think they would trouble them on paper.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That list is a bit inconsistent.

Although underdogs, some of the guys you mentioned were good enough to give ANYONE a decent fight in their pomp.

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Im not saying they couldn't but i meant on paper "before" the fights that most people didn't think they would them on paper.

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Yeah I know what you mean.

But the difference is -

Ray Close vs Chris Eubank = surprise cause Close was average at best

Lloyd Honeyghan vs Donald Curry is different. Although a massive upset Honeyghan was world class.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That list is a bit inconsistent.

Although underdogs, some of the guys you mentioned were good enough to give ANYONE a decent fight in their pomp.

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Im not saying they couldn't but i meant on paper "before" the fights that most people didn't think they would them on paper.

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Yeah I know what you mean.

But the difference is -

Ray Close vs Chris Eubank = surprise cause Close was average at best

Lloyd Honeyghan vs Donald Curry is different. Although a massive upset Honeyghan was world class.

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I understand what your saying but remember no one knew Honeyghan was world class before the fight, and since Curry was P4P number 1. I assume most boxing fans wouldn't of gave Honeyghan a chance, but point taken i know what your saying.

Hearns v Mark Medal
Hearns v James Kinchen
Hearns v Iran Barkley
Hearns v Doug Dewitt

Tyson v Douglas
Ali v Norton
Loyd Honeyghan v Jorge Vaca
Foreman v Tommy Morrison
Ray Mercer v Jesse Fergerson
a few more :)

Asumah Nelson v Mcdonald is a good one or Ali v Norton, they should have beaten them a lot easier but for some reason had problems with their style of boxing. The same could be said of Paq and Marquez, although Paq for some reason gets the decisions.

Paulie Ayala-Hugo Dianzo
George Foreman-Axel Shutz
Wladimir Klitschko-Darryl Williamson
Manny Pacquiao-Serikzhan Yeshmagabetov
Erik Morales-Guty Espadas Jr
Kevin Kelly-Tommy Parks

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Paulie Ayala-Hugo Dianzo
George Foreman-Axel Shutz
Wladimir Klitschko-Darryl Williamson
Manny Pacquiao-Serikzhan Yeshmagabetov
Erik Morales-Guty Espadas Jr
Kevin Kelly-Tommy Parks

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Foreman vs Schulz is a good one i think Schulz won that one, and Foreman didn't want no part of a rematch either thats why he got stripped of the title.

Styles make fights.

My trainer when I was a little kid used to tell a story of when he was in the army:

He claimed that he could beat everyone in his company in boxing except one guy, and that guy in turn, could only beat him.

The guy had an aggressive forward moving style that he just could not handle.

Styles make fights

Foreman-Briggs ....at that point in their careers Briggs should have handed it to him but Foreman was a beast.

Mercer-Lewis....Ray was limited and Lennox let him in the fight more than he should have.

Cotto-Torres...Torres was a sub and therefore Cotto hadn't prepared for his style but it was ugly.

Ali-Norton....Norton was a fucking body builder and there is no way he should have fought that well vs Ali.

Daniel Santos V Antonio Margerito

Vernon Forrest V Ricardo Mayorga

Ali V Ken Norton

Ruben Olivares v Rafael Herrera

Eder Jofre V Fighting Harada

I have chosen fighters who fought their opponent more than once and struggled or lost when they should have won.

Everyone against Quarry
Jerry just had this talent for not going away,and you could see the frustration on the face of all the high end fighters who fought him
Bugner was the same way

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Daniel Santos V Antonio Margerito

Vernon Forrest V Ricardo Mayorga

Ali V Ken Norton

Ruben Olivares v Rafael Herrera

Eder Jofre V Fighting Harada

I have chosen fighters who fought their opponent more than once and struggled or lost when they should have won.

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Yes i like that -Forrest v Mayorga good one :)

Cooper/Holyfield ?

Erik Morales and Barrera


I know you guys disagree with me on this, but I don't care about what you guys think about Erik, but Erik was better, fought better, fought better competition, beat better fighters...... It's just that Barrera could handle everything Erik could dish out.

Agh, whatever, I know I'm going to get a reply in disagreement, but know this... your wrong. haha

El Terrible!!!! Oh the good'ol days. :)

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Originally Posted by ICB

What great fighters struggled against fighters that shouldn't of troubled them on paper.

Mike Weaver vs Larry Holmes
Jim McDonnell vs Azumah Nelson
Doug Jones vs Muhammad Ali
Tony Tubbs vs Riddick Bowe
Jimmy Young vs George Foreman
Junior Jones vs Marco Antonio Barrera
Scott LeDoux vs Ken Norton
Dave Tiberi vs James Toney
James Tillis vs Mike Tyson
Ray Close vs Chris Eubank
Thulani Malinga vs Nigel Benn
Kirkland Laing vs Roberto Duran
Kevin Howard vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Lloyd Honeyghan vs Donald Curry

Theres few to get us started.

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I wouuld throw Jake a Matta and Ray Robinson in there. This was the golden days version of Gatti and Ward.

Pernell probably shouldn't have had as much trouble with Hurtado as he did. That's a bit borderline though cause Hurtado gave Tszyu some problems and Pea was getting a bit up there. Although I thought he beat Oscar next time out.

Gyrokai.....really? ;D

MAB V Junior Jones
Forest v Mayorga

This is why I love the list's ICB.....makes for deep thinking when trying to get through a busy day,keeps me grounded :biglaugh:.....Not sure if were going for the "Never saw that coming" upsets or the tune up's/lesser knowns that almost pulled it off ? Got a few more
Alfred Rangel "L"10 Louie Espinoza
Thomas Tate L.12 Julian Jackson
Brett Lally W.10 Tyrone Trice
Jeff Wooden L.10 David Tua
Willy Wise W.10 Julio C. Chavez
Eric Mitchell L.10 Ricardo Mayorga
Steve Littles W.12 Michael Nunn
Eddie Davis L. Michael Spinks
Billy Backus 'TKO' Jose Napoles
Hector lopez "L" 10 Kostya Tszyu
Fred Delgado L.Tommy Hearns

shane mosley could have done better againsed forrest and wright
the second dlh fight was a ? and he impressed me in his loss to cotto,
he still got a few miles left in him imo.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Pernell probably shouldn't have had as much trouble with Hurtado as he did. That's a bit borderline though cause Hurtado gave Tszyu some problems and Pea was getting a bit up there. Although I thought he beat Oscar next time out.

Gyrokai.....really? ;D

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Hurtado was a better than average fighter with a big punch, i'm not surprised he gave those guys trouble. Hurtado in another era would have been a champion but he fought at 140-147 at a time when those divisions were loaded with talent.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Pernell probably shouldn't have had as much trouble with Hurtado as he did. That's a bit borderline though cause Hurtado gave Tszyu some problems and Pea was getting a bit up there. Although I thought he beat Oscar next time out.

Gyrokai.....really? ;D

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Well Hurtado was hard to deal with and his awkward style canceled out Whitaker's unorthodox style. Lets remember though Whitaker was a fading force by then. The 2 knockdowns Hurtado scored over Whitaker were flash knockdowns, people make out Hurtado was dominating Whitaker when thats not the case, Whitaker come on strong and it was very razor thin close. Lederman had the fight even, and Merchant had Whitaker 1 point up. But i tell you what the finish was brutal.

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Originally Posted by TheChosenOne

shane mosley could have done better againsed forrest and wright
the second dlh fight was a ? and he impressed me in his loss to cotto,
he still got a few miles left in him imo.

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Disagree with Wright he was never ever going to beat Winky who was a true light middle.

Randolph Turpin v Ray Robinson
Andrew Golota v Riddick Bowe
John Davison v Steve RObinson (Yes, I am aware neither are greats but in the grand scheme of things this was a fight where Robinson was brought as a lamb to the slaughter)
Barry Mcguigan v Steve Cruz

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Pernell probably shouldn't have had as much trouble with Hurtado as he did. That's a bit borderline though cause Hurtado gave Tszyu some problems and Pea was getting a bit up there. Although I thought he beat Oscar next time out.

Gyrokai.....really? ;D

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Well Hurtado was hard to deal with and his awkward style canceled out Whitaker's unorthodox style. Lets remember though Whitaker was a fading force by then. The 2 knockdowns Hurtado scored over Whitaker were flash knockdowns, people make out Hurtado was dominating Whitaker when thats not the case, Whitaker come on strong and it was very razor thin close. Lederman had the fight even, and Merchant had Whitaker 1 point up. But i tell you what the finish was brutal.

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I don't think Hurtado was dominating by any means but he did pretty well. And Whitaker was past his best but look at what he did next time out against ODLH. The Whitaker of the Hurtado fight definitely wasn't the Whitaker of the Tito fight.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TheChosenOne

shane mosley could have done better againsed forrest and wright
the second dlh fight was a ? and he impressed me in his loss to cotto,
he still got a few miles left in him imo.

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Disagree with Wright he was never ever going to beat Winky who was a true light middle.

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Agreed....That was a case of too many Divisions .The sight of Wright dropping his hands and letting Mosley tee off was a Wtf moment.....also stupid on Wrights part.Mosley did better but if they fought five times there,Wright takes five Imo.Mosley never belonged at Jr. Middle,Just as DeleHoya never belonged at Middle

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TheChosenOne

shane mosley could have done better againsed forrest and wright
the second dlh fight was a ? and he impressed me in his loss to cotto,
he still got a few miles left in him imo.

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Disagree with Wright he was never ever going to beat Winky who was a true light middle.

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Agreed....That was a case of too many Divisions .The sight of Wright dropping his hands and letting Mosley tee off was a Wtf moment.....also stupid on Wrights part.Mosley did better but if they fought five times there,Wright takes five Imo.Mosley never belonged at Jr. Middle,Just as DeleHoya never belonged at Middle

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Good point. Wright was too big for him.

Almost every fighter has a matchup nightmare. For Shane, it was Forest. For Ali, it was Norton. People will disagree on this, for Jones it was Tarver.

It wasn't only the size Mosley has always struggle against fighters with good jabs, and i personally didn't think Mosley done any really better in the rematch, he was more spirited but he still got out boxed by about the same amount of rounds.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by Master

Disagree with Wright he was never ever going to beat Winky who was a true light middle.

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Agreed....That was a case of too many Divisions .The sight of Wright dropping his hands and letting Mosley tee off was a Wtf moment.....also stupid on Wrights part.Mosley did better but if they fought five times there,Wright takes five Imo.Mosley never belonged at Jr. Middle,Just as DeleHoya never belonged at Middle

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Good point. Wright was too big for him.

Almost every fighter has a matchup nightmare. For Shane, it was Forest. For Ali, it was Norton. People will disagree on this, for Jones it was Tarver.

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There was a luster it seemed for this division jumping.It's always been a pet peeve of mine,though of course it is about making the 'biggest name' fights that are seemingly what the Fans/networks want.I'll even go back to Mosley at lightweight.As a fan I really wanted him to Fight Johnston or Nazarov,To unify/clean up the Division.But there was such a push for a mega fight with DeLahoya he leapfrogs a division and gets Oscar at Welter.Mosley very well may have been to much for A primed Johnston and little known but more than capable banger Nazarov but we'll never know............Tarver is one of my least fav's but I had him 3-0 Vs.Jones :-X

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Originally Posted by ICB

It wasn't only the size Mosley has always struggle against fighters with good jabs, and i personally didn't think Mosley done any really better in the rematch, he was more spirited but he still got out boxed by about the same amount of rounds.

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True. The jab was his undoing against both guys. Against Winky, it was the jab and the fact the he couldn't hurt Winky. Against Forrest, it was the jab and the fact the Forrest could hurt Shane.

hey people i've beeeeen gone for quite a while now, hope everyones good, well seriously 2 fights that came to mind, Judah Vs. Baldomir and Jones Jr Vs. G. Johnson

Roy Jones with Antonio Tarver. Surprised nobody mentioned this yet.

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Originally Posted by ono

Roy Jones with Antonio Tarver. Surprised nobody mentioned this yet.

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I mentioned it already and spicoli followed up.:p

Haugen Vs. Camacho
Bojado Vs. Leija
Raheem Vs. Morales
Campbell Vs. Peden
Tyson Vs. his last two fights :-X

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Haugen Vs. Camacho
Raheem Vs. Morales

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What's up Terrible, good to see you back and good call on these.

Some that stand out the most to me are:

Arguello-Fernandez
Norris-Santana
Sanchez-Ford
Griffith-Carter
Olivares-Herrera
Napoles-Muniz

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Haugen Vs. Camacho
Raheem Vs. Morales

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What's up Terrible, good to see you back and good call on these.

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hey bro, just been busy with the university and all that kinda stuff, haven't missed a fight though ;), and seriously am peeing myself waiting for MARGARITO Vs. COTTO, IMO GONNA BE FIGHT OF THE YEAR HANDS DOWN!!!! I can't decide who's gonna win, it's as close to a 50/50 fight as you can get, and i'm a huge fan of both

winky wright vs. sam soliman
zab judah vs. carlos baldomir
erik morales vs. john lowey
b-hop vs. segundo mercado
ponce de leon vs. gerry pensola