I can't wait until Berto matures or ODLH fights Cotto

I love Cotto, but people are way over hyping him. I definitely see him as one of the best fighters, in the world, but he isn't in Mayweather's league and people are retarded for thinking that. When Oscar fights Cotto I think it will a way tougher fight for Cotto than he would have expected. When Oscar first fought Mosley, Mosley was the better boxer, as time went on however Oscar has progressed a lot more than MOsley, and in their second fight Oscar deserved the win, and was the better fighter, by now for me its pretty obvious that Oscar is a better fighter than MOsley, a Mosley that gave Cotto a very tough fight. If you want my reaons for believing Oscar right now is a step above Mosley just look at Mayorga and Vargas, Oscar destroyed Mayorga, and Mosley destroyed Vargas, but when Mayorga fought Vargas, Mayorga was clearly the superior fighter, and I felt Oscar beat him more convincingly than Mosley beat Vargas. I believe Mosley's win over Collazo was clearly overrated. I think Collazo, had he not broken his hand would have given Mosley a very difficult fight, I mean at the begining he landed a few left hands on Mosley, and won the first round or two, but after he broke his hand the biggest reason he lost the rest of the rounds was that he hardly threw any punches, and he commited to even less of them.

All this leads me to believe Oscar would be at least even to me in his chances of beating Cotto if not more.

As for Burto, sure he is lacking defensive skills right now, but he is so fast, and he hits so hard that Cotto will have a lot of difficulties with him. Berto is a tough kid and if COtto can't take him out easily then I think Berto using deadly uppercuts and combinations would be a nightmare for Cotto two years down the road.

Check this , to me Cotto right now is really mature and getting in his real Peak , so in one or two more Years he will be in the Top (Peak).......

Dont get me wrong , but when Berto get Mature , Cotto will be in hi real Peak , i know that Berto have a good potencial and could make a competitive fight , but we will see what would happen then.....;D

Honestly that fight would look like Juanma vs PDL.................

If you can't wiat until Berto matures, enough to beat Cotto, something tells me you don't really love Cotto at all, lol. Berto has a long way to go before he'd be wise in chasing that fight at this stage if you ask me. I agree with you about Oscar being the better boxer to Mosley though, however at 147 I'd have a hard time seeing him keep up the pace that Mosley did against Cotto, which was probably the biggest problem Cotto had in that fight. Assuming Cotto would fight him at either a catch weight or 54(bad idea imo), I can agree wholeheartedly that Oscar would have a great chance. But it would have to happen very soon, DLH doesn't have too long left. I dont think you can base much on he and Mosley's respective performances against MAyorga and Vargas though... The only one of those fights that really meant anything was Oscar beating MAyorga. Vargas was practically nothing when he first fought Shane the first time, however Shane did have trouble in that fight so I guess it helps your case in that sense..But MAyorga being clearly the superior fighter to Vargas??? So what. Vargas was absolutely shot and soft, he couldn't even make close to middleweight ffs. A prime Vargas would've killed Mayorga just as Oscar had. The Mayorga that fought Oscar would've given Shane a hell of a lot more of a fight at that stage though, imo.

My point is only that ODLH is better than Mosley right now, and don't forget he hits harder. Cotto was able to take Mosley's punch, and I don't think Margarito will be quick/skilled enough to land those clean punches Mosley did, but ODLH definitely has all the ability to land those hard punches, but he hits harder than Judah or MOsley, and like MOsley he is very hard to hurt. I know ODLH has certain weaknesses to the body, but only Hopkins who not only hit hard for a middleweight was a middleweight was able to finish him. I think Cotto has a good chance.

Berto, I think that his style will give Cotto problems. He is strong, his main weapon is his uppercut, and he has a loads of power and speed. These things make him a bad matchup for Cotto. When Cotto throws that left hook to the body he will be eating an uppercut unlike anything he has ever faced up to now. I think Berto will continue to progress and it will not take him that long with his physical gifts to become one of the top fighters in the division.

As for me not loving Cotto, now that Mayweather is gone I will honestly say Cotto is probably my favorite fighter, and the guy I watch most. I love watching him fight, and I love what he stands for, but I am honest and I feel people are overhyping his abilities and the fear factor involved with him and PBF. I can't wait for Berto to mature because that will be a great fight, and I can't wait for ODLH to fight Cotto because that will also be a great fight, and yes, because it will show that Mayweather was a cut above everyone else.

One thing I will say about Taeth as that for as long as I've been he is one to row against the current and just come out of left field with things.

I respect your opinions cause your entitled to them but sometimes I read some of your posts and I think to myself is he for real or does he just play the role.

One things for sure you know I'll never let you live down the Arguello comment. The same way I'll never let JonesJunior+Maywether live down his Duran comment.

Honestly didn't really read your entire post.

But one thing that quickly springs to mind is.

You said you can't wait 'til Berto matures so that he can fight Cotto.

So now my comment/question to you is.
What do you think Cottos gonna be the same fighter he is today?
Can't he improve? Can't he mature more?

So in your eyes Berto will mature and Cotto will...... What? Be the same?

Maybe (I really didn't want to put the maybe BUT for the sake of you comment) by that time Cottos career will be far and beyond what you think.

I said it before and I WILL say it again the ONLY possible way I can see Cotto loose is IF he moves to 154.
At 147 I sure as hell can't see anyone beating him.

If he fights ODLH @147 he'll eat ODLH alive. ODLH is a corpse at 147 and it'll be to Cottos advantge.

But anyway... This was about your Berto comment.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

One thing I will say about Taeth as that for as long as I've been he is one to row against the current and just come out of left field with things.

I respect your opinions cause your entitled to them but sometimes I read some of your posts and I think to myself is he for real or does he just play the role.

One things for sure you know I'll never let you live down the Arguello comment. The same way I'll never let JonesJunior+Maywether live down his Duran comment.

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I don't like Arguello, he was a great person, but his boxing wasn't my favorite. I obviously think he is a lot better than I used to which comes with time, but that comment was a long time ago, I am surprised you would bring it up.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Honestly didn't really read your entire post.

But one thing that quickly springs to mind is.

You said you can't wait 'til Berto matures so that he can fight Cotto.

So now my comment/question to you is.
What do you think Cottos gonna be the same fighter he is today?
Can't he improve? Can't he mature more?

So in your eyes Berto will mature and Cotto will...... What? Be the same?

Maybe (I really didn't want to put the maybe BUT for the sake of you comment) by that time Cottos career will be far and beyond what you think.

I said it before and I WILL say it again the ONLY possible way I can see Cotto loose is IF he moves to 154.
At 147 I sure as hell can't see anyone beating him.

If he fights ODLH @147 he'll eat ODLH alive. ODLH is a corpse at 147 and it'll be to Cottos advantge.

But anyway... This was about your Berto comment.

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If Mayweather was still fighting he beats Cotto hands down, not because he is the best fighter to ever live, but because he is the best fighter by a fair margin right now. Please explain to me why Cotto would be able to eat Oscar alive? He didn't eat Mosley alive.

Regardless I just want to know styliscally how Oscar is an opponent than Cotto would be able to eat alive when B-Hop, Trinidad, Prime MOsley, PRime Mayweather, prime Quartey, Prime Vargas. Obviously Oscar is a different boxer than he was back in the day, better in some things, but worse in others, but JCC was a similar fighter to Cotto in many ways, and stylewise he didn't match up well with Oscar age or not.

I know I am in the minority but Cotto is tailor for Oscar.. Delahoya is at his best when he dosent have to be agressive and when he dosent have to find you.. I think Oscar can take Cotto's best but not sure if Cotto can take Ocars best.. I would favor at a catchweight or 154.. Dont know how oscar would respond to 147 these days

Taeth,
The answer to Cotto-ODLH is very simple.

If they fight at 147 Cotto eats him alive. ODLH cannot make 147 without practically starving himself. He will def. struggle as he just did for the Forbes fight. Not only that but we ALL know how bad ODLHs stamina is.

If the fight happens at 154, I would still root for Cotto because I think he would take ODLH apart with the body work.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

One thing I will say about Taeth as that for as long as I've been he is one to row against the current and just come out of left field with things.

I respect your opinions cause your entitled to them but sometimes I read some of your posts and I think to myself is he for real or does he just play the role.

One things for sure you know I'll never let you live down the Arguello comment. The same way I'll never let JonesJunior+Maywether live down his Duran comment.

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I don't like Arguello, he was a great person, but his boxing wasn't my favorite. I obviously think he is a lot better than I used to which comes with time, but that comment was a long time ago, I am surprised you would bring it up.

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Arguello is in my top 3 fav. fighters all time.
Anything thats said about him that's outrages I remember.

Durans in my top 5 fav. fighters anything outrages said about him I'll remember which is why I remember what JonesJr+Mayweather said about him.

Mick you crack me up. You are like that old woman with the walter mondale bumper sticker still on her car......

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Mick you crack me up. You are like that old woman with the walter mondale bumper sticker still on her car......

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How so Booze? :D

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Mick you crack me up. You are like that old woman with the walter mondale bumper sticker still on her car......

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You leave my grandmother out of this ;D

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Honestly didn't really read your entire post.

But one thing that quickly springs to mind is.

You said you can't wait 'til Berto matures so that he can fight Cotto.

So now my comment/question to you is.
What do you think Cottos gonna be the same fighter he is today?
Can't he improve? Can't he mature more?

So in your eyes Berto will mature and Cotto will...... What? Be the same?

Maybe (I really didn't want to put the maybe BUT for the sake of you comment) by that time Cottos career will be far and beyond what you think.

I said it before and I WILL say it again the ONLY possible way I can see Cotto loose is IF he moves to 154.
At 147 I sure as hell can't see anyone beating him.

If he fights ODLH @147 he'll eat ODLH alive. ODLH is a corpse at 147 and it'll be to Cottos advantge.

But anyway... This was about your Berto comment.

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If Mayweather was still fighting he beats Cotto hands down, not because he is the best fighter to ever live, but because he is the best fighter by a fair margin right now. Please explain to me why Cotto would be able to eat Oscar alive? He didn't eat Mosley alive.

Regardless I just want to know styliscally how Oscar is an opponent than Cotto would be able to eat alive when B-Hop, Trinidad, Prime MOsley, PRime Mayweather, prime Quartey, Prime Vargas. Obviously Oscar is a different boxer than he was back in the day, better in some things, but worse in others, but JCC was a similar fighter to Cotto in many ways, and stylewise he didn't match up well with Oscar age or not.

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I also believe Cotto would mangle De La Hoya. The one thing Cotto has that none of the ones you mentioned have was the intention to absolutely punish him. Vargas wanted that, but isn't one to actually do it. Cotto would want it, Cotto would do it.

I put up in another post, that Cotto could fight coming forward and ALSO fight backing up. He could fight southpaw or right-handed. Which one of those fighters you mentioned could bring that to the table? Above all, TODAY'S De La Hoya is the Oscar I'm matching him up with. PRIME De La Hoya, would be different.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Taeth,
The answer to Cotto-ODLH is very simple.

If they fight at 147 Cotto eats him alive. ODLH cannot make 147 without practically starving himself. He will def. struggle as he just did for the Forbes fight. Not only that but we ALL know how bad ODLHs stamina is.

If the fight happens at 154, I would still root for Cotto because I think he would take ODLH apart with the body work.

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dlh would have a better chance at 154 but at 147 he would fade from the middle rounds onward. i see cotto stopping him late in the rounds as long as he can keep away from oscar's haymakers.

mosley has much better stamina than dlh at this point which is the difference between them.

[quote=Taeth;531483]I love Cotto, but people are way over hyping him. I definitely see him as one of the best fighters, in the world, but he isn't in Mayweather's league and people are retarded for thinking that. When Oscar fights Cotto I think it will a way tougher fight for Cotto than he would have expected. When Oscar first fought Mosley, Mosley was the better boxer, as time went on however Oscar has progressed a lot more than MOsley, and in their second fight Oscar deserved the win, and was the better fighter, by now for me its pretty obvious that Oscar is a better fighter than MOsley, a Mosley that gave Cotto a very tough fight. If you want my reaons for believing Oscar right now is a step above Mosley just look at Mayorga and Vargas, Oscar destroyed Mayorga, and Mosley destroyed Vargas, but when Mayorga fought Vargas, Mayorga was clearly the superior fighter, and I felt Oscar beat him more convincingly than Mosley beat Vargas. I believe Mosley's win over Collazo was clearly overrated. I think Collazo, had he not broken his hand would have given Mosley a very difficult fight, I mean at the begining he landed a few left hands on Mosley, and won the first round or two, but after he broke his hand the biggest reason he lost the rest of the rounds was that he hardly threw any punches, and he commited to even less of them.

All this leads me to believe Oscar would be at least even to me in his chances of beating Cotto if not more.

As for Burto, sure he is lacking defensive skills right now, but he is so fast, and he hits so hard that Cotto will have a lot of difficulties with him. Berto is a tough kid and if COtto can't take him out easily then I think Berto using deadly uppercuts and combinations would be a nightmare for Cotto two years down the road.[/quote]

1. Starting off with such a distasteful statement really doesn't bode well for your post.

2. Oscar may have progressed more than Mosely in terms of PPV numbers and exposure, but in truth Mosely at this stage of their careers is still the superior boxer. At 147 Mosely is still mixing it with the best an looking for ways to the top. At 154 DLH is seeking fights from fighters as low as 140 and 135.
Your'e arguement about Mayorga>Vargas therefore DLH>Mosely is ridiculous. Did Vargas not draw DLH into a bloody fight and wobble him early? Don't base a theory on past prime/shot fighters.

3. Your description of Berto essentially is a description of Cotto, without his calculating boxing brain and scientific approach to fighting.

Delahoya is cut from the same cloth as Mosely and Hopkins... Never to be shit on or mangled.. Period. Floyd sr has his defense ramped up 100% to go with an all world chin... I bet a 1000 reps to anyone that Oscar beats Cotto... Oscar is better than Cotto in every sense.. Cotto couldnt carry Oscars Jock let alone might be his cleaning lady .... End of!!!

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Delahoya is cut from the same cloth as Mosely and Hopkins... Never to be shit on or mangled.. Period. Floyd sr has his defense ramped up 100% to go with an all world chin... I bet a 1000 reps to anyone that Oscar beats Cotto... Oscar is better than Cotto in every sense.. Cotto couldnt carry Oscars Jock let alone might be his cleaning lady .... End of!!!

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If it ever comes off, I'm in.

you got it hot shot... You dont believe Oscar cant be mangled or Embarassed?

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Delahoya is cut from the same cloth as Mosely and Hopkins... Never to be shit on or mangled.. Period. Floyd sr has his defense ramped up 100% to go with an all world chin... I bet a 1000 reps to anyone that Oscar beats Cotto... Oscar is better than Cotto in every sense.. Cotto couldnt carry Oscars Jock let alone might be his cleaning lady .... End of!!!

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If it ever comes off, I'm in.

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I would be in as well!

I don't know about mangled or embarrassed but I think he'll have it rough going down the stretch. I wasn't blown away by him against Forbes to be honest.

Not Oscars style to be chasing speedy slick boxers... Cotto is the deal but when Delahoya gets to sit on his punches and let the action come to him is at his absolute best... I believe wholeheartedly that Cant take Delahoyas power, no friggin way

[QUOTE=hitmandonny;533247]

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I love Cotto, but people are way over hyping him. I definitely see him as one of the best fighters, in the world, but he isn't in Mayweather's league and people are retarded for thinking that. When Oscar fights Cotto I think it will a way tougher fight for Cotto than he would have expected. When Oscar first fought Mosley, Mosley was the better boxer, as time went on however Oscar has progressed a lot more than MOsley, and in their second fight Oscar deserved the win, and was the better fighter, by now for me its pretty obvious that Oscar is a better fighter than MOsley, a Mosley that gave Cotto a very tough fight. If you want my reaons for believing Oscar right now is a step above Mosley just look at Mayorga and Vargas, Oscar destroyed Mayorga, and Mosley destroyed Vargas, but when Mayorga fought Vargas, Mayorga was clearly the superior fighter, and I felt Oscar beat him more convincingly than Mosley beat Vargas. I believe Mosley's win over Collazo was clearly overrated. I think Collazo, had he not broken his hand would have given Mosley a very difficult fight, I mean at the begining he landed a few left hands on Mosley, and won the first round or two, but after he broke his hand the biggest reason he lost the rest of the rounds was that he hardly threw any punches, and he commited to even less of them.

All this leads me to believe Oscar would be at least even to me in his chances of beating Cotto if not more.

As for Burto, sure he is lacking defensive skills right now, but he is so fast, and he hits so hard that Cotto will have a lot of difficulties with him. Berto is a tough kid and if COtto can't take him out easily then I think Berto using deadly uppercuts and combinations would be a nightmare for Cotto two years down the road.[/quote]

1. Starting off with such a distasteful statement really doesn't bode well for your post.

2. Oscar may have progressed more than Mosely in terms of PPV numbers and exposure, but in truth Mosely at this stage of their careers is still the superior boxer. At 147 Mosely is still mixing it with the best an looking for ways to the top. At 154 DLH is seeking fights from fighters as low as 140 and 135.
Your'e arguement about Mayorga>Vargas therefore DLH>Mosely is ridiculous. Did Vargas not draw DLH into a bloody fight and wobble him early? Don't base a theory on past prime/shot fighters.

3. Your description of Berto essentially is a description of Cotto, without his calculating boxing brain and scientific approach to fighting.

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1) I shouldn't have said people are retarded, but its just hard for me to see how ignorant people are.
2) Its laughable to say Mosley at this point is better than Oscar, he hasn't been better than Oscar since early on in his WW era. Also my arguement wasn't as ridiculous as what you are claiming how long ago did Oscar fight Vargas? How much better was Vargas back then than he is now? If that happened in the last year or two I could see your point that styles make fights, but a young Vargas would have beaten Mayorga becuase he is just too good, but my point was that Vargas was totally watched up when Mosley fought him. I am basing two guys who fought Oscar and Mosley before facing eachother, and the guy who Oscar took out easier than Mosley took out his opponent was able to easily control the other guy.
3) Berto is way faster, and he does hit harder than Cotto. The difference in athletic ability is painfully obvious. ALso Berto does have a lot of skills, great combinations, punching technique, ring generalship, he just doesn't have great defensive skills, but neither does Cotto.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Delahoya is cut from the same cloth as Mosely and Hopkins... Never to be shit on or mangled.. Period. Floyd sr has his defense ramped up 100% to go with an all world chin... I bet a 1000 reps to anyone that Oscar beats Cotto... Oscar is better than Cotto in every sense.. Cotto couldnt carry Oscars Jock let alone might be his cleaning lady .... End of!!!

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If it ever comes off, I'm in.

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cotto already beat mosley, count me in.

I had the Cotto/Mosley fight a draw. The Shane in that fight was past it and his speed had declined considerably. That being said he is a warrior and i think he fought Cotto even. Is Shane right now (and always has been) better conditioned than Oscar...absolutely. Is Shane a better technical fighter and have as much power at 147 and 154 than Oscar...absolutely not. In his prime, Shane beat Oscar because he was so blinding fast and was such an incredible athlete. But Oscar has as good a chin as Shane, a MUCH better jab than Shane, and is a stronger puncher than Shane at this stage of their careers. I have a lot of respect for Cotto...great champion and continues to improve. But even now...Oscar would cause him problems. For all of Cotto's improvements...he still has a porous defense and i am not convinced about his chin. Sure, Oscar's proneness to fading has to always be taken to account (especially if this fight took place at 147). But as some people have mentioned...Cotto's style doesn't require Oscar to be the aggressor. Can Cotto beat Oscar...of course. You can never discount a YOUNG champion. BUT...if a past prime Shane could almost beat Cotto...i think Oscar would finish him. Would be an exciting fight.

[quote=Taeth;533753]

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I love Cotto, but people are way over hyping him. I definitely see him as one of the best fighters, in the world, but he isn't in Mayweather's league and people are retarded for thinking that. When Oscar fights Cotto I think it will a way tougher fight for Cotto than he would have expected. When Oscar first fought Mosley, Mosley was the better boxer, as time went on however Oscar has progressed a lot more than MOsley, and in their second fight Oscar deserved the win, and was the better fighter, by now for me its pretty obvious that Oscar is a better fighter than MOsley, a Mosley that gave Cotto a very tough fight. If you want my reaons for believing Oscar right now is a step above Mosley just look at Mayorga and Vargas, Oscar destroyed Mayorga, and Mosley destroyed Vargas, but when Mayorga fought Vargas, Mayorga was clearly the superior fighter, and I felt Oscar beat him more convincingly than Mosley beat Vargas. I believe Mosley's win over Collazo was clearly overrated. I think Collazo, had he not broken his hand would have given Mosley a very difficult fight, I mean at the begining he landed a few left hands on Mosley, and won the first round or two, but after he broke his hand the biggest reason he lost the rest of the rounds was that he hardly threw any punches, and he commited to even less of them.

All this leads me to believe Oscar would be at least even to me in his chances of beating Cotto if not more.

As for Burto, sure he is lacking defensive skills right now, but he is so fast, and he hits so hard that Cotto will have a lot of difficulties with him. Berto is a tough kid and if COtto can't take him out easily then I think Berto using deadly uppercuts and combinations would be a nightmare for Cotto two years down the road.[/quote]

1. Starting off with such a distasteful statement really doesn't bode well for your post.

2. Oscar may have progressed more than Mosely in terms of PPV numbers and exposure, but in truth Mosely at this stage of their careers is still the superior boxer. At 147 Mosely is still mixing it with the best an looking for ways to the top. At 154 DLH is seeking fights from fighters as low as 140 and 135.
Your'e arguement about Mayorga>Vargas therefore DLH>Mosely is ridiculous. Did Vargas not draw DLH into a bloody fight and wobble him early? Don't base a theory on past prime/shot fighters.

3. Your description of Berto essentially is a description of Cotto, without his calculating boxing brain and scientific approach to fighting.

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1) I shouldn't have said people are retarded, but its just hard for me to see how ignorant people are.
2) Its laughable to say Mosley at this point is better than Oscar, he hasn't been better than Oscar since early on in his WW era. Also my arguement wasn't as ridiculous as what you are claiming how long ago did Oscar fight Vargas? How much better was Vargas back then than he is now? If that happened in the last year or two I could see your point that styles make fights, but a young Vargas would have beaten Mayorga becuase he is just too good, but my point was that Vargas was totally watched up when Mosley fought him. I am basing two guys who fought Oscar and Mosley before facing eachother, and the guy who Oscar took out easier than Mosley took out his opponent was able to easily control the other guy.
3) Berto is way faster, and he does hit harder than Cotto. The difference in athletic ability is painfully obvious. ALso Berto does have a lot of skills, great combinations, punching technique, ring generalship, he just doesn't have great defensive skills, but neither does Cotto.

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1) I understand, I'm just sensitive to this word lately, for reasons I outlined in the otherr room.

2)You reinforce my point. You can't compare the performances of two fighters with a common opponent in two different phases of their career and you must always adhere to the cliche "styles make fights."

The plain and simple fact is SSM is currently performing well in the Welterweight division at the highest level. Oscar is inactive in his weight class (154) has not fought anyone of note in that division and his latest fights have all been against men moving up in weight to facilitate him. He has not called out anyone of equal or similar size this decade. Thats factual.

3) Initially i would like to note that Cotto does have both evasive and defensive technique, which has improved greatly with each fight since the Torres debacle. Berto has demonstrated a penchant for power punching, at his level. Cotto has retained his power all the way to the elite level, so there is no way one can ascertain that Berto hits harder. When Berto outpunches a fighter of Judah's calibre, perhaps I will reconsider.
Simply. Berto looks good on the way up.
Cotto looked great on the way up and still does.