Mayweather v Leonard who wins welterweight?

After just reading Majestys excellent post about who would win at lightweight in a fight between Mayweather and Mosley my mind started racing about a fight I watched the other night between Mayweather sr and Sugar Ray Leonard. It was a very one sided fight but mayweather senior showed just how much of a tough man he was by constantly coming forward and taking a beating for round after round before it was eventually stopped. But Mayweather senior didn't have the phenominal boxing skills of his son nor did he have the water tight defence or speed. So I was wondering what other people thought the outcome of this bout would have been if you could put a prime Ray Leonard at welterweight in against a prime Floyd at welterweight. I personally would go for a close maybe even split decision for Leonard as I believe him being the natural welterweight would have given him the slight edge and I think he also just had an edge in speed.

Difficult to gauge as Mayweather is essentially an unknown quantity at welter, having never been truely challenged.

One must lean toward SRL as his size allows him a distinct advantage.

leonard was a more natural complete boxer at 147 and far more established than floyd.

He`d have no problems fighting PBF at range and would eventually nutralise floyds hand speed by beating him to the punch.

Leonard by a unanimous 8 rounds to 4 win!!

I think Mayweather Sr gave Leonard a good fight he actually won some rounds against Leonard, the only thing that let him down was when he was against the ropes he got battered. Because he didn't have his son's defense, i think Mayweather Jr was faster and stronger at the lower weights although Mayweather Jr is still a fantastic boxer at Welterweight. I think Leonard takes it by close UD basically because i feel Mayweather was better at the lower weight classes, where as Leonard was at his best at Welterweight. And Leonard did do a number on Benitez who was a very good defensive fighter on and off the ropes.

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Originally Posted by ICB

I think Mayweather Sr gave Leonard a good fight he actually won some rounds against Leonard, the only thing that let him down was when he was against the ropes he got battered. Because he didn't have his son's defense, i think Mayweather Jr was faster and stronger at the lower weights although Mayweather Jr is still a fantastic boxer at Welterweight. I think Leonard takes it by close UD basically because i feel Mayweather was better at the lower weight classes, where as Leonard was at his best at Welterweight. And Leonard did do a number on Benitez who was a very good defensive fighter on and off the ropes.

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Very good points here.

Based solely on the basis of opponents, it's tough to argue against Leonard. Just look at his list of conquests:

Benitez
Duran
Hearns
Hagler

Whereas Floyd (at 147) has beaten whom?

Leonard is a tough matchup for Mayweahter, Leonard is good on inside (Hearns, Duran I) He is as fast as Mayweather at WW, he's 2-3 inches taller, has an inch I believe in reach advantage. I think Mayweather has the most trouble dealing with Leonard's movement and jab, I think Mayweather would be exceptionally hard to hit for Leonard, and might connect at a relatively higher %, but that Leonard would throw way more punches, and look good in throwing combinations while Mayweather is on the ropes, though I don't see Leonard landing a whole lot, as fast as he is. I also think Mayweather might come forward like he against Judah, if he saw Leonard against Hearns he would notice that Hearns throw a punch everytime Leonard tried to set himself early on, and that resulted in Leonard not being able to get off, if Mayweather sees this then he might try to capatilize on Leonard one noticeable fault. WHen he uses his feet he, very quickly, needed to set before throwing punches, and a fast guy like Hearns caught it, and I think Mayweather could as well, but Leonard being the bigger guy makes me think Mayweather is going backwards in this one.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

After just reading Majestys excellent post about who would win at lightweight in a fight between Mayweather and Mosley my mind started racing about a fight I watched the other night between Mayweather sr and Sugar Ray Leonard. It was a very one sided fight but mayweather senior showed just how much of a tough man he was by constantly coming forward and taking a beating for round after round before it was eventually stopped. But Mayweather senior didn't have the phenominal boxing skills of his son nor did he have the water tight defence or speed. So I was wondering what other people thought the outcome of this bout would have been if you could put a prime Ray Leonard at welterweight in against a prime Floyd at welterweight. I personally would go for a close maybe even split decision for Leonard as I believe him being the natural welterweight would have given him the slight edge and I think he also just had an edge in speed.

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I think the biggest misconception of Mayweather's speed is because of his jab, He likes to stick it, so he pushes out instead of snapping it, and this type of jab doesn't shoot out or come back as quickly because you are controlling the jab the whole way along as opposed to just snapping it out and trying to aim for the target. This jab is effective because it halts an opponent forward progress, but it can be countered (like against judah), and it is slower, if you look at Mayweather's hooks, crosses, etc. you will see he has a lot more speed than his jab would indicate.

Well look between fight Benitez, Duran, and Hearns at the weigth i do not think there is anything that PBF can throw at SRL to throw him off. The way i see it going is SRL taking a UD winning 116-112 115-113. Reason being think he while land more then PBF and have the more meaning for punchs and throw more which while get him points. I think if PBF does try to go after SRL and press the action i can see him getting caught and hitting the canvas. He may of been able to adjust to Zab but the different between Zab and SRL is that SRL can adjust with the best of them. Think SRL has to much of advantage at teh weigth and takes a ud.

Well teath i did like some of your points i jsut think SRL to much at welterweight for PBF.

Gotta go with Leornard.

Definitely have to go with Leonard in this one. Leonard started his career at 147 before moving up to 154, 160 and 168. Whereas Floyd is basically topping out at 147.

Leonard has just as much speed, and significantly more punching power.

Yea it was his best weight and he is amoung the top welters.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Definitely have to go with Leonard in this one. Leonard started his career at 147 before moving up to 154, 160 and 168. Whereas Floyd is basically topping out at 147.

Leonard has just as much speed, and significantly more punching power.

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True but maybe not the defensive qualities that Floyd has so that could make up for his so called "LACK" of power! I'm still sticking with SRL but I don't think it would be as much of a foregone conclusion as some of the other people on here!

I think people are overhyping Leonard's power, I am not saying he wasn't a good puncher, not at all, but he wasn't a huge puncher. I mean comparing Floyd at his prime weight (130) to Leonard at 147 I would say Floyd might have even hit harder p4p at his best weight. Leonard got two very impressive KO's against Hearns and Benitez, but Benitez took the fight on what? 2 weeks notice?, and after Leonard dominated early Benitez's defense was really giving Leonard problems, and Benitez is a great fighter, but Floyd is a superior version of him in almost every aspect. Hearns also wasn't in great shape at 147, nor did he have a solid chin. ALl in all Leonard did not possess SRR type power, but he was extremely fast, and a skilled fighter, but this fight is a lot closer than people make it out to be, I think Leonard's size helped him in fights against Duran, Hearns, Hagler where Floyd may have not faired as well, but against eachother its a great matchup technically.

Leonard because he wasn't AS big of a pussy as Floyd


I personally think Duran and Hearns would have beaten Floyd senseless but Ray was able to deal with them (for the most part) and therefore I give him the nod in this hypothetical matchup

Leonard was just as much Mayweather at welterweight and even more Leonard at every thing else....;DJust as fast,accurate and much more experienced in the Welterweight trenches compared to Floyd...

Just about everyone is gonna say Leonard because people that are fans of the old school fighters will always pick on resume's rather then fighting styles.

Leonard never really had to deal with anyone with Mayweather's speed, defense or style and Floyd hasn't fought anyone like Leonard.

But the thing is Mayweather's style could give someone like Leonard trouble.

But people look at old school fighters as fighting the rougher tougher fighters of their generation so they will place them classes above.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mayweather won honestly, but it would be a close decision because there will be some rounds where Mayweather outboxes him, and other rounds where Leonard outhustles him.

Mayweather is the better all round fighter for me , Leonard is the better welterweight.

Leonard does everything Floyd does but with power and pride.

Ray didn't have one punch power...Floyd doesn't have any power at all at 147......if Ray could outbox Duran a great fighter who could box extremely well on the inside and out fight Tommy Hearns then he wouldn't have had much of a problem with Floyd who damn near got beat by an old Oscar De la Hoya.

Ray's handspeed, heart, and style would provide lots of trouble for Floyd.....Ray only got beat 3(really 4 because the rematch with Hearns) times and those times he was old or fighting one of the greatest pound for pound fighters in the history of the sport (Roberto Duran). Floyd hasn't been beat YET but he has had major trouble in a couple fights vs guys who just don't compare to the likes of Hearns, Duran, Hagler, and Benitez....Jose Luis Castillo a good fighter but nothing close to Duran


Ray was also the naturally bigger man

The only thing guaranteed about this fight is that it would be extrememly close and down to the wire, probably resulting in a split decision for either one. Anyone who thinks one or the other would somehow pull away from the other at some point is sadly kidding themselves.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Ray didn't have one punch power...Floyd doesn't have any power at all at 147......if Ray could outbox Duran a great fighter who could box extremely well on the inside and out fight Tommy Hearns then he wouldn't have had much of a problem with Floyd who damn near got beat by an old Oscar De la Hoya.

Ray's handspeed, heart, and style would provide lots of trouble for Floyd.....Ray only got beat 3(really 4 because the rematch with Hearns) times and those times he was old or fighting one of the greatest pound for pound fighters in the history of the sport (Roberto Duran). Floyd hasn't been beat YET but he has had major trouble in a couple fights vs guys who just don't compare to the likes of Hearns, Duran, Hagler, and Benitez....Jose Luis Castillo a good fighter but nothing close to Duran


Ray was also the naturally bigger man

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Sugar Ray Leonard also struggled with Kevin Howard and was dropped in that fight, and Howard was a journeyman fighter. Every great fighter struggles with fighters that on paper they shouldn't struggle with, but theres just something about there style that bothers them, and as for Mayweather vs Castillo 1 we all know Mayweather had a shoulder injury coming into that fight, and in the rematch when he was 100 percent healthy he won by 7-5, 7-4-1, 8-4 by at least that much depending on how many rounds you gave Castillo.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

leonard was a more natural complete boxer at 147 and far more established than floyd.

He`d have no problems fighting PBF at range and would eventually neutralise floyds hand speed by beating him to the punch.

Leonard by a unanimous 8 rounds to 4 win!!

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This works for me as well.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Ray didn't have one punch power...Floyd doesn't have any power at all at 147......if Ray could outbox Duran a great fighter who could box extremely well on the inside and out fight Tommy Hearns then he wouldn't have had much of a problem with Floyd who damn near got beat by an old Oscar De la Hoya.

Ray's handspeed, heart, and style would provide lots of trouble for Floyd.....Ray only got beat 3(really 4 because the rematch with Hearns) times and those times he was old or fighting one of the greatest pound for pound fighters in the history of the sport (Roberto Duran). Floyd hasn't been beat YET but he has had major trouble in a couple fights vs guys who just don't compare to the likes of Hearns, Duran, Hagler, and Benitez....Jose Luis Castillo a good fighter but nothing close to Duran


Ray was also the naturally bigger man

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First of all I think your wrong saying he has no punch power at 147.Certainly not the hardest hitter but the shot that sent Hatton into the corner head first looked quite powerful to me. He was out of his comfort zone fighting DLH at 154 and still came away with a victory. I personally think he would have beaten Duran (Prime v Prime) as I see him frustrating Duran the way Leonard did in "NO MAS", but don't see him beating Tommy Hearns as I think that Hearns' height and skill coupled with that freakish punch power would have caused him serious trouble and I see Hearns as one of the only men in welterweight history that could knock a prime Floyd out. As for him struggling against people who don't compare to Hearns, Duran, Hagler and Benitez I think that DLH is certainly in that league. Im not saying Oscar would have beaten any of them but he would have certainly been no pushover and i would see him taking them all the distance (with the exception of the natural middleweight Hagler who probably would have stopped him) and losing close competitive fights.

Leonard was one of the best at 147.

Him by UD.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

First of all I think your wrong saying he has no punch power at 147.Certainly not the hardest hitter but the shot that sent Hatton into the corner head first looked quite powerful to me. He was out of his comfort zone fighting DLH at 154 and still came away with a victory. I personally think he would have beaten Duran (Prime v Prime) as I see him frustrating Duran the way Leonard did in "NO MAS", but don't see him beating Tommy Hearns as I think that Hearns' height and skill coupled with that freakish punch power would have caused him serious trouble and I see Hearns as one of the only men in welterweight history that could knock a prime Floyd out. As for him struggling against people who don't compare to Hearns, Duran, Hagler and Benitez I think that DLH is certainly in that league. Im not saying Oscar would have beaten any of them but he would have certainly been no pushover and i would see him taking them all the distance (with the exception of the natural middleweight Hagler who probably would have stopped him) and losing close competitive fights.

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Hatton's chin at 147 was tested by Luis Collazo...so let's be real about Floyd's power it just not there.

Prime for Prime Duran was one of the greatest pound for pound fighters of all time and the psych job he'd do on Floyd would be Floyd's undoing. Duran would want PBF to try to KO him and Duran would have beat the shit out of him....Duran was a good boxer, he lacked the speed of a Leonard or Mayweather but on the inside he was very good on defense and he was just brutal with his punches.

Oscar is a good fighter but in no way would he beat Duran, Hearns, or Hagler or even compete with them....Benitez yeah he'd have a better shot at him. Tommy Hearns was a Tito Trinidad who could box at a very high level as he damn near beat Ray Leonard in his Prime he boxed his ears off until he ran out of gas. Duran was a Ricardo Mayorga or Fernando Vargas that could box at a high level and he beat Ray Leonard to hell and back in Ray's prime!!! Hagler was like a less goofy Paul Williams with a Bernard Hopkins attitude...great work ethic and threw tons and tons of punches.

People talk of the Golden Age of Heavyweights in the 60's and 70's but the 1980's was the Golden Era of Welterweights....I doubt PBF would even beat Julio Cesar Chavez

Assumin speed and chin equal there is still too much in favor for SRL at 147...height, power and footspeed go to SRL imo making it a clear unaminous decision for Sugar Ray Leonard...