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Reading the Boxing News today I have seen an article talking about who is the biggest challenger to Wladimir Klitschkos heavyweight throne. Anyway of all the people that it mentioned there was only one person who stuck out in my mind and that was David Haye so I was wondering how people think that the Hayemaker would fair against the Top heavyweight around today.
i went for Wlad as Haye is unproven at heavy , i may chang emy mind if Haye knocks out some good heavies
Wlad .....now and forever!
He's too big, too strong, and too powerful....Haye is all hat and no cattle
I said Haye basically because I hink it would be a case of who lands big first on who questionable chin and I think that with both having very good boxing skills but Haye being the faster I belive it would be him that got through first. Then again you have to make an arguement for Wlads reach and height advantage, but i'll stick with Haye.
I think Wlad's 1-2 spells doom for everyone in the division right now....and either you have to catch Wlad doing something wrong (ie vs Sanders he was in a crouch and hunched over therefore putting him in firing range of Sanders) OR you have to weather the storm and get Wlad tired.....seeing how Haye has neither the chin nor the stamina to "weather the storm" then he's going to have to go for broke and try to catch Wlad slipping and that is becoming harder and harder to do......and so I say Wlad would dominate Haye now and a couple years from now.
haye would probably lose to chagaev, he would lose to sultan, and he might even lose to valuev
he has no business even challenging klitschko
Wlad smashes him
Im not voting yet its a tough one give Haye 2-3 fights against top 10 heavyweights and see how he does.
The key to Haye is his speed he hits as hard as the best and if he can keep his speed he could devistate the division.
Remember a lot of the guys at heavy are fat Cruserweights.
Yep, Haye is unproven as of now. But you never know in the heavyweight division, ....Hell any division now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think it comes down to whoever lands there right hand first.
Im glad someone has thought about this logically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
2 of the greatest heavyweights of all time would have been in the Cruiserweight division today in Marciano and Joe Louis. So I dont read too much into cruiserweights not being big enough. Also Haye was a very big Cruiser who has already fought at heavy (I think he weighed in at 217 which is similar weight to Tyson, Ali, Frazier and other great heavys at their best) and destroyed a mediocre heavy in Bonin in the 1st round.
I'm not saying that he would beat Klitschko but what I am saying is that people on here in my opinion are under rating Haye.
Wlad has been constantly improving since his glass chin days (Sanders, Brewster), guys. He's determined to continue improving and becoming one of the greatest HWs of this generation. Save for his ridiculous pawing at Sultan for 12 rounds, his last few showings have been pretty damn good.
I agree with this but the question marks remain over the quality of his opponents for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Well.. it's not really his fault that there's not much available in terms of quality opponents in the HW division nowadays. I do like that Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. And I also like the fact that Wlad himself realizes he's a work in progress, and hasn't let the ease of his latest victories get to his head.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI agree with this but the question marks remain over the quality of his opponents for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Wlad needs Haye to cement any kind of legacy he has no comp they are either too big or not skilled.
Wlad better pray that Haye or Solis dont lose as they hold the key for him historically.
Ive cooled on Povetkin he is very skelled but fights face first and has little power.
Good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanWell.. it's not really his fault that there's not much available in terms of quality opponents in the HW division nowadays. I do like that Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. And I also like the fact that Wlad himself realizes he's a work in progress, and hasn't let the ease of his latest victories get to his head.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI agree with this but the question marks remain over the quality of his opponents for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I agree with this, and would add that Wlad needs for some of the yet unknown HW prospects out there to come up soon, because given Wlad's list of victims thus far, any claim to being an ATG in the division would fall far short.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Wlad needs Haye to cement any kind of legacy he has no comp they are either too big or not skilled.
Wlad better pray that Haye or Solis dont lose as they hold the key for him historically.
Ive cooled on Povetkin he is very skelled but fights face first and has little power.
Again I totally agree although I think that Solis is still a bit unproven. That said I heard that if the Jones-Calzaghe fight goes ahead he could be fighting Oliver Mccall on the undercard which should be a bit of a better test for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Wlad needs Haye to cement any kind of legacy he has no comp they are either too big or not skilled.
Wlad better pray that Haye or Solis dont lose as they hold the key for him historically.
Ive cooled on Povetkin he is very skelled but fights face first and has little power.
wlad would win this one! :p
.....Wladimir most certainly is not one of those guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
I am hoping Haye does well because the division needs somebody.....Arreola and Witherspoon are disappointing, Malik Scott was never good and has apparently not scheduled a fight yet this year, Povetkin is not as technically good as you would think a Russian fighter would be, Chambers is great defensively but is not good when it comes to stamina, and Dimitrenko ...who knows what that guy is going to bring to the division
I think that Wald while knock him out to much size for him.
I would actually like to see Haye in with arreola. I don't think that arreolas got anymore than a punchers chance but it would be a good start for Haye at heavyweight and if he does get caught a couple of times it would give us a good idea as to how he would handle a heavyweights shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle.....Wladimir most certainly is not one of those guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
I am hoping Haye does well because the division needs somebody.....Arreola and Witherspoon are disappointing, Malik Scott was never good and has apparently not scheduled a fight yet this year, Povetkin is not as technically good as you would think a Russian fighter would be, Chambers is great defensively but is not good when it comes to stamina, and Dimitrenko ...who knows what that guy is going to bring to the division
Can't really add much more to the thread, but agree that at this point is not worth voting on as Haye is not there.
I do like him as a fighter and do hope he can prove himself at HW in a few matches with decisive wins...and have that lead up to a great HW fight against Wlad. It is something this division has needed for a long time I believe.
But was a bit early for Haye to be asking for the fight...and I think he now realizes this. Those kinda far off wonderings and wishes are best left to us the fans, until such time as he earns the right.
Wlad by my reckoning. We know what Wlad is capable of but Haye is as yet relatively untested at heavyweight. I would need to see Haye beat a couple of top 10 ranked heavyweights before I even consider giving him a shot of beating Wlad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle.....Wladimir most certainly is not one of those guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
I am hoping Haye does well because the division needs somebody.....Arreola and Witherspoon are disappointing, Malik Scott was never good and has apparently not scheduled a fight yet this year, Povetkin is not as technically good as you would think a Russian fighter would be, Chambers is great defensively but is not good when it comes to stamina, and Dimitrenko ...who knows what that guy is going to bring to the division
Wlad aside and a couple of giants id say 80% of the top heavyweights could make Cruserweight pretty easy, Chagaev, Ibragamov, Povetkin are all fat Cruserweights.
Dont think hayes a smart enough fighter yet to beat klitschko.
Similar power to Wlad but definetely not the same level of ring smarts that i suspect would see klitschko dominate with the jab until he is in a position to take haye out.
Wlad is baa aad!
So far no SMART fighter has beaten Wlad....Wlad has either beaten himself (Brewster and Purrity) or just made it hard on himself to win by giving up his natural size and reach advantages (Sanders).Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
David Haye is going to have to be technically solid and well I hate to say it but he's going to have to have a horseshoe up his ass to have a shot vs Wlad because in order for Haye to catch Wlad (who has really improved his defense) he's going to have to get past Wlad's 1-2, keep his hands free as Wlad will either try to tie him up or push him off, and then be able to land cleanly....it's a tall order for Haye who is still quite flawed as a fighter.
I would like to see Haye fight Ray Austin first...Ray isn't a great fighter but he's tall and he's done well in the division or Larry Donald a tall athletic fighter who is very difficult to KO....it took Vitali 10 rounds to get to him and Povetkin couldn't stop him either....maybe a fight vs Dimitrenko would be beneficial as well as Dimitrenko is tall doesn't have great power but is a very good boxer and is trained by Fritz Sdunek Wlad's old trainer so he probably fights in a similar manner to Wlad which would tell us a little bit about Haye and his ability to cope with a good 1-2
So has anybody changed their minds after last night then?
Haye wins easily and shows anybody deluded enough to think Klitschko is a good fighter just how rubbish the heavyweight division is.
Haye's not beating anyone with a belt at this point....he may not even have a shot at challengers like Valuev and Ruiz if he can't carry his power up.
But we don't know because he's never fought a good heavyweight and hasn't ever been punched by a good heavyweight either.
I'm happy you Brits are hyping Haye up so much....maybe Wlad will get credit when he KO's him.....oh who am I kidding you guys will make some excuses about the loss
No one should be picking Haye to win until he actually shows that he is a legit heavyweight fighter.
Its a tough decision, It all comes down really to who lands the first big shot.
He has already fought at heavyweight.. albeit for about 2 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I'd be AMAZED if Haye hit Wlad on the chin and Wlad wasn't seriously troubled by it. Doesn't mean Haye would beat him mind
Yes, he has fought at heavyweight, but not against anyone noteworthy. I'd like to see him fight a legit Top 10 heavyweight before I start entertaining the idea of whether he can beat the #1 heavyweight in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHe has already fought at heavyweight.. albeit for about 2 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I'd be AMAZED if Haye hit Wlad on the chin and Wlad wasn't seriously troubled by it. Doesn't mean Haye would beat him mind
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterHe has already fought at heavyweight.. albeit for about 2 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I'd be AMAZED if Haye hit Wlad on the chin and Wlad wasn't seriously troubled by it. Doesn't mean Haye would beat him mind
Haye better fight and beat somebody before he fight Wlad because he might just be another Lawrence Clay-Bey
I need to see Haye dip into the HW wadeing pool before I put any stock in him above 200lbs. Wlad by KO.
The popular general consensus is that Haye needs to win a fight or 2 against legimate HW's before fighting Wlad, and I agree with that.
For the sake of the division I can only hope he does and wins, convincingly. Haye brings with him a loyal following and a fun personality. I was at first annoyed by his Wlad stalking, but it atleast is giving attention to HW's where there obviously is some scorn and disappointment.
I don't dislike Wlad, but I sure would like to see him tested by someone exciting and mobile. Haye could potentially be that. Time will tell.
Haye, he's gonna smash that boring prick.