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The most dominant boxer of the last 10-20 years seemed to almost go into his shell after meeting gerald and never quite recovered.
It was almost as if roy had a sudden realisation and had a fear of getting hurt.
Just off the back of rewatching that 3rd tarver fight and it was almost as if RJJ just didnt wanna fight anymore and had lost that desire to be champ.
I believe he has said he will not go looking for the KO unless he has to. Against Tito he certainly held back and coasted when he could have finished the fight.
McClellan has nothing to do with Roy losing. Roy lost because he got KTFO in those 2 fights with Tarver and Johnson and knocked around the ring like a rag doll in the 3rd, plain and simple.
I don't think he was worried about his own well being too much but he certainly doesn't go out to hurt people the way he used to. I think he's suffering in the same way chris eubank did after the 2nd Watson fight when he seriously hurt him. Eubank from that fight on would not go for the kill when he had a fighter hurt and it cost him in the end. Roy has admitted that he will not hurt anyone unless he has to anymore but at the same time I don't blame that for his defeats to Tarver and Johnson I think he just took too much on moving up to heavyweight and then shedding all that muscle again to make Light Heavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
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Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI don't think he was worried about his own well being too much but he certainly doesn't go out to hurt people the way he used to. I think he's suffering in the same way chris eubank did after the 2nd Watson fight when he seriously hurt him. Eubank from that fight on would not go for the kill when he had a fighter hurt and it cost him in the end. Roy has admitted that he will not hurt anyone unless he has to anymore but at the same time I don't blame that for his defeats to Tarver and Johnson I think he just took too much on moving up to heavyweight and then shedding all that muscle again to make Light Heavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Boxers are programmed from an early age to not feel great compassion towards a fellow opponent when in the ring.
I really just do not buy the whole RJJ got sick of beating guys up theory as it has many flaws. Do you honestly believe RJJ went into that 3rd tarver fight not wanting to seriously hurt his opponent regardless of the fact both antonio and johnson had knocked him spark out in recent fights??
What RJJ did for gerald was great and all and im sure it meant a hell of a lot to mcclellan. But i honestly believe it changed RJJs outlook on boxing.
After his ko loses he is more gunshy, nothing to do with McClellan imo. Like most all fighters after getting kod his mindset is a little more safety first.
NO! I've already said that I blame these losses on the fact that he lost all that muscle in such a short period of time. What i'm trying to say is Roy certainly isn't punching people with the intent he used to and if it was his own well being he was worried about he simply wouldn't be fighting anymore especially at the age of 39. I do though expect some of that old power punching from Roy to rear its ugly head against Joe as there are so many people writing him off.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI don't think he was worried about his own well being too much but he certainly doesn't go out to hurt people the way he used to. I think he's suffering in the same way chris eubank did after the 2nd Watson fight when he seriously hurt him. Eubank from that fight on would not go for the kill when he had a fighter hurt and it cost him in the end. Roy has admitted that he will not hurt anyone unless he has to anymore but at the same time I don't blame that for his defeats to Tarver and Johnson I think he just took too much on moving up to heavyweight and then shedding all that muscle again to make Light Heavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Boxers are programmed from an early age to not feel great compassion towards a fellow opponent when in the ring.
I really just do not buy the whole RJJ got sick of beating guys up theory as it has many flaws. Do you honestly believe RJJ went into that 3rd tarver fight not wanting to seriously hurt his opponent regardless of the fact both antonio and johnson had knocked him spark out in recent fights??
What RJJ did for gerald was great and all and im sure it meant a hell of a lot to mcclellan. But i honestly believe it changed RJJs outlook on boxing.
Jones went on to be one of the greatest boxers ever so I dont think he was ruined by it .
I can assure you that had nothing to do with it;)
Only Glen Johnson knocked Roy around ,and only because Roy didn't keep his hands up when he was on the ropes. Against Tarver in the third fight neither of them were really fighting nor did they land a whole lot, Tarver hurt Roy once, but besides that it was a boring fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by match
My man,Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I bet you have NO idea that the G-Man was hurt prior to the Benn fight.
G-Man was already hurt and going through things by the time he faced Benn. It was always rumored that DK then G-Man promoter did an inside job and new G-Man was hurt but still had him fighting. Again this was all rumors until Tarick Salmici a once sparring partner and stable mate of G-Man did an interview and just let it all out from over hearing a conversation between DK and members of his team to sparring with G-Man and noticing G-Man blinking rapidly and acting strange.
If you knew the history behind this whole story you would know that RJJs visit to the G-Man was just him being a friend and I too believe it did not scare RJJ and even more so RUIN, RJJ.
I mean if that was the case RJJ would have never fought on past Art Serwano whom after RJJ lands a sick right hand to the head leaves Art on the floor in a minor seizure with his eyes rolling and body shaking/cringing.
Every fighter who has ever lost a big fight has some behind the scenes drama and exuses made for him. I doubt it was relevent at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickMy man,Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I bet you have NO idea that the G-Man was hurt prior to the Benn fight.
G-Man was already hurt and going through things by the time he faced Benn. It was always rumored that DK then G-Man promoter did an inside job and new G-Man was hurt but still had him fighting. Again this was all rumors until Tarick Salmici a once sparring partner and stable mate of G-Man did an interview and just let it all out from over hearing a conversation between DK and members of his team to sparring with G-Man and noticing G-Man blinking rapidly and acting strange.
If you knew the history behind this whole story you would know that RJJs visit to the G-Man was just him being a friend and I too believe it did not scare RJJ and even more so RUIN, RJJ.
I mean if that was the case RJJ would have never fought on past Art Serwano whom after RJJ lands a sick right hand to the head leaves Art on the floor in a minor seizure with his eyes rolling and body shaking/cringing.
Bilbs, have you read the interview?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboEvery fighter who has ever lost a big fight has some behind the scenes drama and exuses made for him. I doubt it was relevent at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickMy man,Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I bet you have NO idea that the G-Man was hurt prior to the Benn fight.
G-Man was already hurt and going through things by the time he faced Benn. It was always rumored that DK then G-Man promoter did an inside job and new G-Man was hurt but still had him fighting. Again this was all rumors until Tarick Salmici a once sparring partner and stable mate of G-Man did an interview and just let it all out from over hearing a conversation between DK and members of his team to sparring with G-Man and noticing G-Man blinking rapidly and acting strange.
If you knew the history behind this whole story you would know that RJJs visit to the G-Man was just him being a friend and I too believe it did not scare RJJ and even more so RUIN, RJJ.
I mean if that was the case RJJ would have never fought on past Art Serwano whom after RJJ lands a sick right hand to the head leaves Art on the floor in a minor seizure with his eyes rolling and body shaking/cringing.
The one with Salmici where he talks about everything I typed.
About Salmici over hearing a phone conversation with DK and his people about G-Mans condition at that time.
Salmici after hearing this packed his bags and asked to be released from DK because of what he had witnessed.
DK released him after that.
I would strongly suggest you get the full scoop on G-Man and his story.
I get what your saying here Bilbo, but this ain't like G-Man went onto fight after that and he made this an excuse. It's reality and if you can't see that then your fucken blind.
It does appear that way because Jones just doesn't seem to want to finish opponents. He would much rather go the distance.
What mess up Roy Jones Jr was the fact that he got destroyed by Taver then beat around by Johnson thats what got him. Getting beat like that can really humble a guy and make him think not a god anymore that is why he is not the killer he used to be.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMickMy man,Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I bet you have NO idea that the G-Man was hurt prior to the Benn fight.
G-Man was already hurt and going through things by the time he faced Benn. It was always rumored that DK then G-Man promoter did an inside job and new G-Man was hurt but still had him fighting. Again this was all rumors until Tarick Salmici a once sparring partner and stable mate of G-Man did an interview and just let it all out from over hearing a conversation between DK and members of his team to sparring with G-Man and noticing G-Man blinking rapidly and acting strange.
If you knew the history behind this whole story you would know that RJJs visit to the G-Man was just him being a friend and I too believe it did not scare RJJ and even more so RUIN, RJJ.
I mean if that was the case RJJ would have never fought on past Art Serwano whom after RJJ lands a sick right hand to the head leaves Art on the floor in a minor seizure with his eyes rolling and body shaking/cringing.
No i just assumed gerald went his whole career without being so much as tagged ;D;D;D
How exactly the whole series of events ended in the tragedy gerald faced i and i suspect many experts who have studied this case fully are none the wiser.
It just appeared to me at times that RJJ just appeared unable to pull the trigger later on in his career even in times when during the tarver 3rd fight he must of knew it would be his only chance of winning the fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickMy man,Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I bet you have NO idea that the G-Man was hurt prior to the Benn fight.
G-Man was already hurt and going through things by the time he faced Benn. It was always rumored that DK then G-Man promoter did an inside job and new G-Man was hurt but still had him fighting. Again this was all rumors until Tarick Salmici a once sparring partner and stable mate of G-Man did an interview and just let it all out from over hearing a conversation between DK and members of his team to sparring with G-Man and noticing G-Man blinking rapidly and acting strange.
If you knew the history behind this whole story you would know that RJJs visit to the G-Man was just him being a friend and I too believe it did not scare RJJ and even more so RUIN, RJJ.
I mean if that was the case RJJ would have never fought on past Art Serwano whom after RJJ lands a sick right hand to the head leaves Art on the floor in a minor seizure with his eyes rolling and body shaking/cringing.
That was a beautiful shot. One of Roys best knockouts
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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
When did Roy visit Gerald?
I heard Roy say he would not visit him until he retired as it would put him off.
As for it ruining him na stepping up in compitition and age did that.
As of right now im not sure that he has visited gerald to date..
He may have done now but for years he just wouldnt..
he was the only guy to donate money and do things for him but refused to visit because he just couldnt continue his boxing career if he did.
i think the incident affected the way he went about his business in the right..
like so many fights of roys.. like gonzalez or reggie johnson, or richard hall..
but it wasnt visiting him as far as i know.
I see an interview in 2006 and he had not visited Gerald.
And yes only Jones and Benn have ever done anything for the G-Man (boxers) i know Bert Sugar gave him $100,000 in 99ish.
And again it did not ruin Jones, his step up in compitition ruined him. Remember Jones never fought anyone remotely elite from 1994 until Tarver in 2003.
thats what caught Roy out not the G-Man.
There was a segment on a news report a couple years ago about G-Man and they were saying that Roy has refused to visit him until his career is over, but has helped the McClellan out financially.
People have said that the McClellan tragedy made Roy more tenative in the ring, but I don't see it.
In the fights immediately following Benn-McClellan, I didn't see Roy being more tenative.
Antoine Byrd: Roy jumped on Byrd and stopped him in 2 minutes.
Vinny Pazienza: Roy had little problem turning it on in round 6 to finish Paz. He did sort of motion to the ref that the fight should've been stopped after the 2nd KD, but it wasn't like Roy fought tenative or held back.
Tony Thornton: After the KD late in round 2, Roy jumped on Tony and the fight was stopped shortly thereafter.
Merqui Sosa: Good short fight, Jones won in a couple rounds.
Eric Lucas: Haven't seen this one in years.
Bryant Brannon: Again, Roy did tell the ref to stop it as he saw that Brannon was done, but Roy showed no signs up to that point that he'd lost his offensive instincts or fire. He'd already dropped Brannon twice and the guy was done in the corner.
If anything, I felt that Roy facing bigger guys at 175 made him more content to coast and win a decision.
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Originally Posted by Thread Stealer
When Jones finally stepped up to semi-elite he realised you can get away with those flashy moves against the cans he fought from Toney but not against even solid journeyman.
Jones is a victim of being ultra protected.
No chance! Toney was unbeaten and considered the best p4p fighter, he had just KO Williams dramatically and sliced Barclay, but Jones dominated the fight which no one would have thought he would have done so easily.
When did he visit Mcclellan? I thought he said he wasn't going to until he retired
You are so way off on your assesment of Roy it's not even funny. He'd have dealt easily with Tarver and Johnson just afew years prior, it was just that his reflexes which he so depended on were diminished. Watch any Jones fight 1993-2001 compared to Roy-Tarver 1 and it's obvious it's not the same athlete in there, I actually remember catching the fight half way through and telling my mates 'wow that guy looks like Jones Jr' then I saw the name on his shorts and realised it WAS him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by Thread Stealer
When Jones finally stepped up to semi-elite he realised you can get away with those flashy moves against the cans he fought from Toney but not against even solid journeyman.
Jones is a victim of being ultra protected.
As for G-man, Roy was always cautious and had a tendency to carry opponents, he showed in the second griffin fight what he was capable when pissed. Watch his interview after that fight and you'll have answers to some of the Q's on this thread.
Its hard to know for sure but Jones is much more likley to have long term health problems by fighting on so long past his prime.
It amazes me the number of boxers that have not learned the lesson of what taking to many punches does to you long term off Muhammad Ali.
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Originally Posted by BompYou are so way off on your assesment of Roy it's not even funny. He'd have dealt easily with Tarver and Johnson just afew years prior, it was just that his reflexes which he so depended on were diminished. Watch any Jones fight 1993-2001 compared to Roy-Tarver 1 and it's obvious it's not the same athlete in there, I actually remember catching the fight half way through and telling my mates 'wow that guy looks like Jones Jr' then I saw the name on his shorts and realised it WAS him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by Thread Stealer
When Jones finally stepped up to semi-elite he realised you can get away with those flashy moves against the cans he fought from Toney but not against even solid journeyman.
Jones is a victim of being ultra protected.
As for G-man, Roy was always cautious and had a tendency to carry opponents, he showed in the second griffin fight what he was capable when pissed. Watch his interview after that fight and you'll have answers to some of the Q's on this thread.
Tarver was the only good fighter he fought in 9 bloody years and he loses!
All the props for Toney but from 94-03 how the hell can he not look good fighting that opposition!