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I just want people's opinions on who Wlad would beat or would be beaten by out of the guys Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, etc fought to earn their greatness for example:
Donovan Rudduck
Tommy Morrison
Frank Bruno
Mitch Green
James Tillis
James Smith
David Tua
Shannon Briggs
Tony Tucker
Hasim Rahman
Michael Moorer
Andrew Golota
Michael Dokes
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Spinks
Renoldo Snipes
Tim Witherspoon
Trevor Berbick
I'm just curious to what everyone thinks
Of them I honestly think he would beat Berbick, Snipes, Maybe Pinklon and Dokes, Golota, Rahman, Maybe Tucker, Briggs, Tillis, Green, Bruno. The rest I think would have beaten Wlad In their heydays. Also i'm not the biggest Tyson fan by the way as barring a very old Larry Holmes every other LEGEND he fought beat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think Tommy Morrison would have beat him out of shear determination, If the young Morrison fought on the inside of Klitschko jab he would rough him up. Klitschko does not handle pressure well. And Morrison presents a ass load of pressure. But if he chose to fight him like he did Lewis it could be an early night for Wlad.
With that being said, I say Morrison catches early and would not let him off the hook
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaPgBAT39no
He beats pretty much all of those guys
I know about Tyson....he did fight Spinks who was a great fighter but only at lightheavyweight.
So the guys you have beating Wlad are: Rudduck, Morrison, Tua, Smith, Witherspoon, and Moorer.
I see Wlad only having trouble with a prime Shannon Briggs because he was big he could take a punch and was active in the ring.
I would go with Ruddock,Bruno,Witherspoon,Briggs and perhaps Tua to beat him he beats the rest but i would give berbick,tucker,Golota and Morrison a chance.
Yeah I think he'd easily outbox Shannon though. Straightforward fight for Wlad. To me he would struggle with a smaller heavy thats always in his face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Donovan Rudduck Wladimir loses by KOQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Tommy Morrison Wladimir wins by TKO
Frank Bruno Wladimir loses by KO
Mitch Green Wladimir wins by KO
James Tillis Wladimir wins by KO
James Smith Wladimir loses by KO
David Tua Wladimir wins by UD
Shannon Briggs Wladimir wins by KO
Tony Tucker Wladimir loses by TKO
Hasim Rahman Wladimir wins by TKO
Michael Moorer Wladimir loses by KO
Andrew Golota Wladimir loses by TKO
Michael Dokes Wladimir wins by KO
Pinklon Thomas Wladimir wins by KO
Michael Spinks Wladimir wins by KO
Renoldo Snipes Wladimir wins by TKO
Tim Witherspoon Wladimir loses by KO
Trevor Berbick Wladimir wins by KO
I'll take a crack at it, Lyle.....
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I like that list. Except Briggs loses by big fat asthma douche. And claims he just fought like a warrior and is the baddest man around...Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanI'll take a crack at it, Lyle.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm not shocked about people picking Bruno or Morrison to beat Wlad but Rudduck???
Those guys couldn't really box...Morrison did but vs a very slow George Foreman, Wlad is athletic and his jab is pretty damn good.
From how Wlad has been beaten before you either have to be able to sneak a punch in there and nail him and never let up or you have to take a beating and withstand until Wlad gets tired and those times are coming fewer and fewer as Wlad is fighting smarter. The guys who could do that are: Tua, Morrison, and Rahman. Tua has never been KO'd, Morrison fought with heart and could take a beating, and Rahman could sneak a big punch in, he did it to Lewis.
I don't see why people pick Bruno to win but I understand why they would like him to win, because he's the only true British heavyweight that was any good from the last couple of years....Lennox was Canadian/Jamaican/British so he wasn't 100% British the way Bruno was
Razor Ruddock was a huge puncher and i can see him catching Wladimir Klitschko at some point and as for Frank Bruno he had terrific jab and was also a big puncher and was very dangerous in the first 6 rounds i can see him landing his big over hand right on Wladimir at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I know they are both big punchers but they had trouble with the top level fighters. I would compare Rudduck to Sam Peter and Bruno to Hasim Rahman....Bruno got beat by the likes of Witherspoon and Smith and Rudduck never really had a close fight with any prime top tier fighter the closest he got was going the distance with Tyson.
The thing is Frank Bruno lost to Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon because they were able to wishstand Frank Bruno's power in the first 6 rounds because they were always durable which Wladimir isn't. And Frank Bruno lost in the later rounds down to confidence problems and stamina issues due too much muscle mass plus i can't see Wladimir surviving that long against Frank Bruno and plus Wladimir does have few stamina issues himself. I can see your argument regarding Razor Ruddock because he was sloppy at that times but funny enough i've seen few sparring clips of Razor Ruddock where he showed good skills and used his jab to good effect its quite strange he never showed those skills when he actually got down to fighting and just realied on his half left uppercut/half left hook the "smash"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Rudduck had plenty of potential but yeah he fought sloppy....Frank Bruno still doesn't really impress me, I mean who did he ever beat?
He did lack the big wins but his losses except for Bonecrusher Smith were to some of the best Heavyweights take Tim Witherspoon for example was the 3rd best Heavyweight of the 80s behind Mike Tyson and Larry Holmes and always showed a solid chin. I don't have to tell you about Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson because you already know but i think Frank Bruno was a good fighter who was just unlucky that the fighters he was up against were all bad style match ups for him because all those fighters all had pretty solid chins and were able to weather his storm i can see Wladimir Klitschko having serious issues with Bruno's jab lets remember how Bruno totally out jabbed Lewis who had one of the best jabs of all time and Wladimir has never fought anyone with a solid jab like Bruno's plus i can see that right hand landing at some point or another and despite what you think Frank Bruno did always have good chin it was just he lacked survival instinct i think Wladimir would be too cautious against Bruno and Bruno would put Wladimir on the back foot with his solid left jab then boom right hand over the top and its lights out for Wladimir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think Spinks, Tua, Ruddock, Morrison had a shot a Wlad even the Mercer that Lewis fought or the Holmes Tyson boxed had it in them it would depend on a few things.
Wlad has been knocked out cold that gives fighters a boost so Wlad would not have the fear factor of a Tyson or Lewis. And remember those guys are better than anyone Wlad has been near and would not fear him.
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Originally Posted by ssssThe thing is Frank Bruno lost to Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon because they were able to wishstand Frank Bruno's power in the first 6 rounds because they were always durable which Wladimir isn't. And Frank Bruno lost in the later rounds down to confidence problems and stamina issues due too much muscle mass plus i can't see Wladimir surviving that long against Frank Bruno and plus Wladimir does have few stamina issues himself. I can see your argument regarding Razor Ruddock because he was sloppy at that times but funny enough i've seen few sparring clips of Razor Ruddock where he showed good skills and used his jab to good effect its quite strange he never showed those skills when he actually got down to fighting and just realied on his half left uppercut/half left hook the "smash"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Bruno finest hr was the Lewis fight and it was Micky Vanns lowest ebb. Great ref today but goes to show its not only Cortez and Nady that can favour a boxer.
He certainly did give Frank Bruno every chance of surviving i remember he warned Lennox Lewis for holding his glove on Bruno's face while he set up the vicious uppercut.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by ssssThe thing is Frank Bruno lost to Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon because they were able to wishstand Frank Bruno's power in the first 6 rounds because they were always durable which Wladimir isn't. And Frank Bruno lost in the later rounds down to confidence problems and stamina issues due too much muscle mass plus i can't see Wladimir surviving that long against Frank Bruno and plus Wladimir does have few stamina issues himself. I can see your argument regarding Razor Ruddock because he was sloppy at that times but funny enough i've seen few sparring clips of Razor Ruddock where he showed good skills and used his jab to good effect its quite strange he never showed those skills when he actually got down to fighting and just realied on his half left uppercut/half left hook the "smash"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Bruno finest hr was the Lewis fight and it was Micky Vanns lowest ebb. Great ref today but goes to show its not only Cortez and Nady that can favour a boxer.
I think that Wladmir does fine against that list, but I don'tthink he's the type of fighter that could have fought five of them in a row and come out with 5 wins.
I think David Tua at his best would beat Wladmir.
I think Wlad would beat Frank Bruno soundly.
A name that was omitted was Riddick Bowe, I think he certainly would have beaten Wlad.
Wladimer beats the below fighters because they are either mediocre or do not have enough pop on their punches to hurt Wlad
Mitch Green
James Tillis
James Smith
Tony Tucker
Michael Moorer-Moores glass chin would crack
Andrew Golota
Michael Dokes
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Spinks- best of the bunch, but too small.
Renoldo Snipes
Tim Witherspoon
Trevor Berbick
Tommy Morrison-Tommy's glass chin would break before Wlad's
The following fights could go either way, do to Wlad's inabilty to take a clean punch:
Hasim Rahman
Shannon Briggs
David Tua
Frank Bruno
Donovan Rudduck
Wlad loses to Morrison, Witherspoon and Ruddock IMO...these were the ones that would force Klitscko's pace which is something that Wlad does not react well to...A prime Tua would be interesting as he might be able to break Wlad down if he could get to him also a prime Dokes...If Wlad can dictate the pace and fight at his range he is deadly but pressure and high activity seems to be his undoing...
I thought about the David Tua fight then i remembered how cautious Lennox Lewis was against Tua and how 1 dimentional Tua looked and how easily Lennox Lewis out boxed Tua just something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Promoter
If you are talking on their best form, I'm actually not sure Wlad would beat any of those guys cept for perhaps Smith, Rudduck or Moorer could be pick ems. No way Wlad would beat a prime Tua or even Morrison though imo, he just cant handle that can't of firepower, he's to rigid and limited. Honestly you overrate him so much it's hilarious. You actually think he would have beaten the Tim Witherspoon that fought LArry Holmes?? Your kidding me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I agree LL made Tua look foolish and David decided to stop fighting and just turtle up...The Tua that fought LL was not the same constant pressure fighter that fought under Lou Duva's watch it was the "one punch" version that the Goosen's created...terrible. The Tua that I was thinking of was the one that fought Ike, Rahman (1), Maskaev, Izon, Ruiz, etc...the "Terminator" version ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ssssI thought about the David Tua fight then i remembered how cautious Lennox Lewis was against Tua and how 1 dimentional Tua looked and how easily Lennox Lewis out boxed Tua just something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Promoter
Those guys that I mentioned are not considered GREAT fighters and the reason being is that they weren't consistent and could lose at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Tim Witherspoon was 15-0-0 when he squared off vs Holmes. Wlad has something Larry never did and that's punching power! Larry had a record of 42 (28 KO's)-0-0 when he fought Witherspoon. Tim never really fought vs the big time power punchers of his era....I guess Dokes counts but even then it's not on par with what Wlad brings.
David Tua's worst enemy is a jab and movement and Wlad would make him look silly.
Tommy Morrison could be outboxed and out gunned and his stamina was also in question.
I don't think it's overrating Wlad to think that he could beat those fighters, I also want to say those type of guys are kind of what the division has right now.
Morrison's stamina was at least as good a Wlad's and his pace would have given Wlad fits.....Wlad has terrible movement or at least can't fight for long moving so trying to say that Wlad could expose Tua like LL did is just silly...Wlad would clearly win early then by the 6 or 7th round when he was exhausted and fighting flat footed he'd be wacked out by Tua...Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleThose guys that I mentioned are not considered GREAT fighters and the reason being is that they weren't consistent and could lose at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Tim Witherspoon was 15-0-0 when he squared off vs Holmes. Wlad has something Larry never did and that's punching power! Larry had a record of 42 (28 KO's)-0-0 when he fought Witherspoon. Tim never really fought vs the big time power punchers of his era....I guess Dokes counts but even then it's not on par with what Wlad brings.
David Tua's worst enemy is a jab and movement and Wlad would make him look silly.
Tommy Morrison could be outboxed and out gunned and his stamina was also in question.
I don't think it's overrating Wlad to think that he could beat those fighters, I also want to say those type of guys are kind of what the division has right now.
I think Morrisons best delivered on the spot Left hook could have badly hurt ANY heavyweight in history Imo but his stamina was at times horrid and emphasized an already thin chin when it wanned. He would have to leap in and assert himself big & early to get to Wlad but I think Wlad could frustrate him quite a bit and often.
Well I'm sure it goes without saying that you think Wlad would beat all of them. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Lyle thinks he would beat this list:Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkWell I'm sure it goes without saying that you think Wlad would beat all of them. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Dempsey,
Louis,
Marciano,
Liston,
Ali,
Frazier,
Foreman,
Norton,
Holmes,
Tyson,
Holyfield,
Lewis.
Sorry Lyle but you do overrate him. I think you want him to be better than he is for the sake of boxing. Well I think he'll get beat off Haye if they fight. He's too slow and despite having decent boxing skills eventually any class operator will test his chin and it will fail.
I didn't put those fighters up there because right now he doesn't deserve to be mentioned with those guys.
Is that overrating him? Is it honestly overrating him by saying he'd beat these guys who were just contenders?
Well you think Haye is going to win and he hasn't even fought a live body at heavyweight....so who's overrating who?
I disagree Larry Holmes during his championship reign had 14 stoppage wins out of his 20 title defenses and had 7 straight stoppage wins which is the record tied with Joe Louis i don't know why you think Larry Holmes had no punching power but its wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleThose guys that I mentioned are not considered GREAT fighters and the reason being is that they weren't consistent and could lose at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Tim Witherspoon was 15-0-0 when he squared off vs Holmes. Wlad has something Larry never did and that's punching power! Larry had a record of 42 (28 KO's)-0-0 when he fought Witherspoon. Tim never really fought vs the big time power punchers of his era....I guess Dokes counts but even then it's not on par with what Wlad brings.
David Tua's worst enemy is a jab and movement and Wlad would make him look silly.
Tommy Morrison could be outboxed and out gunned and his stamina was also in question.
I don't think it's overrating Wlad to think that he could beat those fighters, I also want to say those type of guys are kind of what the division has right now.
Everyone here he'd beatQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I know I'm jumping the gun but I always expected Evander to unify the heavyweight division when he moved up too and he did!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The streak Holmes went on:Quote:
Originally Posted by ssss
Alfredo Evangilista - later KO'd by a 7-2-1 LEON SPINKS
Osi Ocasio - KO'd 5 times in his career vs pretty good fighters or late in his career BUT had only 13 fights when he fought Holmes
Mike Weaver -18 losses.....12 losses by KO
Lorenzo Zannon - 6 losses 5 losses by KO
Earnie Shavers - Big time power puncher BUT got KO'd 7 times in his career and not to huge punchers or even good fighters sometimes.
Leroy Jones - oddly enough Holmes was the only guy to beat this dude and the only other fighter I recognized on his resume was the aforementioned Mike Weaver whom he decisioned. Other than that he fought "knock off"brand fighters like HARRY Terrell and LARRY Frazier...I don't know if those guys are related to Earnie Terrell or Joe Frazier but I don't think they were claimed by the family after they lost to Leroy.
Scott Ledoux - Scotty got KO'd 7 times in his career as well.
Joe Louis KO'd 7 guys in a row as champion, THREE TIMES during his reign as champion. That my friend is a power puncher!
Larry Holmes as a heavyweight had SOME power but to be a power puncher at heavyweight roughtly every guy you fight has to be KO'd and Larry didn't do that...Larry was a BOXER he boxed and he was damned good at it
Agreed. Larry had some power but his greatest weapon was probably the greatest Jab in history not a sickening power punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleThe streak Holmes went on:Quote:
Originally Posted by ssss
Alfredo Evangilista - later KO'd by a 7-2-1 LEON SPINKS
Osi Ocasio - KO'd 5 times in his career vs pretty good fighters or late in his career BUT had only 13 fights when he fought Holmes
Mike Weaver -18 losses.....12 losses by KO
Lorenzo Zannon - 6 losses 5 losses by KO
Earnie Shavers - Big time power puncher BUT got KO'd 7 times in his career and not to huge punchers or even good fighters sometimes.
Leroy Jones - oddly enough Holmes was the only guy to beat this dude and the only other fighter I recognized on his resume was the aforementioned Mike Weaver whom he decisioned. Other than that he fought "knock off"brand fighters like HARRY Terrell and LARRY Frazier...I don't know if those guys are related to Earnie Terrell or Joe Frazier but I don't think they were claimed by the family after they lost to Leroy.
Scott Ledoux - Scotty got KO'd 7 times in his career as well.
Joe Louis KO'd 7 guys in a row as champion, THREE TIMES during his reign as champion. That my friend is a power puncher!
Larry Holmes as a heavyweight had SOME power but to be a power puncher at heavyweight roughtly every guy you fight has to be KO'd and Larry didn't do that...Larry was a BOXER he boxed and he was damned good at it
Agreed, rep to you sir
Never said Larry Holmes was a puncher i just thought you was underrating his power he could turn a fight around with one punch as he did against Mike Weaver when he was in bad shape one uppercut basically changed the whole fight around and that one punch won the fight for Larry Holmes.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleThe streak Holmes went on:Quote:
Originally Posted by ssss
Alfredo Evangilista - later KO'd by a 7-2-1 LEON SPINKS
Osi Ocasio - KO'd 5 times in his career vs pretty good fighters or late in his career BUT had only 13 fights when he fought Holmes
Mike Weaver -18 losses.....12 losses by KO
Lorenzo Zannon - 6 losses 5 losses by KO
Earnie Shavers - Big time power puncher BUT got KO'd 7 times in his career and not to huge punchers or even good fighters sometimes.
Leroy Jones - oddly enough Holmes was the only guy to beat this dude and the only other fighter I recognized on his resume was the aforementioned Mike Weaver whom he decisioned. Other than that he fought "knock off"brand fighters like HARRY Terrell and LARRY Frazier...I don't know if those guys are related to Earnie Terrell or Joe Frazier but I don't think they were claimed by the family after they lost to Leroy.
Scott Ledoux - Scotty got KO'd 7 times in his career as well.
Joe Louis KO'd 7 guys in a row as champion, THREE TIMES during his reign as champion. That my friend is a power puncher!
Larry Holmes as a heavyweight had SOME power but to be a power puncher at heavyweight roughtly every guy you fight has to be KO'd and Larry didn't do that...Larry was a BOXER he boxed and he was damned good at it
I just said Larry wasn't a power puncher....sure he could KO guys and changes fights with one punch but can't EVERY fighter over 200 pounds do that?
Larry Holmes was a great boxer and it was because of his skill with the sweet science and not his power. Great jab great boxing ability he learned from the best
Bruno was miles ahead of Hasim Rahman. Smith and Witherspoon were both very good fighters. In his prime, Witherspoon would stand a very good chance against Wlad. He'd be a better bet than Ruddock or Bruno. Rahman's biggest moment was a lucky punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Still, I think Bruno loses to Wlad.