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I cant help but see the similarities between Miguels loss on the weekend and Kostya's first loss to Vince Phillips.
Both Cotto and Tszyu were better 'boxers' than there opponents but lost due to the unrelenting pressure of the other guy in the ring.
Anyone else see the similarities or is it just me?
Kostya came back to do great things and i think Cotto will as well.
Yeah good point. In both instances too neither guy really gave up - there was just nothing left. Cotto has always fought the best and will continue too so a loss is almost inevitable. He's young and as you say am sure will continue on to bigger and better things.
Many people called that one a fluke,Phillips coming off a loss but Vince had skills also.He had a harsh straight right hand along with sturdy Chin.Man I thought Kostya would exploit cut prone Phillips but it all caught up to him in 10th.That guy had some serious personal problems.I think Margarito has surpassed Phillips even prior to Last night in respected careers and was by no means a faded name ,honestly with Phillips, brought into lose Imo to a rising star.
I do think we will see Cotto regain big league stature but I'm not keen on a rematch for Cotto at the moment.
I agree and there is no doubt Margo is better than Vince ever was. Both had a similiar style tho, sturdy chins and pressure style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Cotto was on a winning streak like KT was before the Philips fights. Kostya had never really fought a pressure guy before just like Cotto hadnt fought a pressure guy like Margo before. They both got found out.
Cotto just had that same kinda shocked look that Kostya had when he got TKO'd.
That was another great fight, although it stung at the time watching Kostya fall.
I bet Ricky Hatton studied that tape a few times too.
Cotto can come back.
He boxed very well, but quite simply Margarito used his expierience to steal Cotto's stamina, will and heart from him.
Cotto can build on this loss, it was more of a surrender than a stoppage, he can build.
Tszyu was in the worst shape of his whole career for that fight whereas Cotto looked in good shape but tired because of breathing problems. If Tszyu had a rematch with Phillips I would have fancied him to KO him. The guy is one of the best punchers p4p in history and he had one off bad night. I'm not sure Cotto would beat Margo in a rematch but i wouldn't write him off!
tbh I thgink Cotto tired because of the amount of movement he had to do alongside the fact that Tony was pounding his ribs at every given opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Sorry yes course he did. Just read my post again sounds like I'm making excuses for Cotto. It was a mixture of a lot of things, like you say he was using a lot of movement which was sure to catch up with him and that coupled with the fact Toni was banging him with fierce body shots and the fact he will have been struggling to breathe all accumulated to him tiring and being stopped by he better man on the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnytbh I thgink Cotto tired because of the amount of movement he had to do alongside the fact that Tony was pounding his ribs at every given opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
You're right, I understand now what you mean my man.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuSorry yes course he did. Just read my post again sounds like I'm making excuses for Cotto. It was a mixture of a lot of things, like you say he was using a lot of movement which was sure to catch up with him and that coupled with the fact Toni was banging him with fierce body shots and the fact he will have been struggling to breathe all accumulated to him tiring and being stopped by he better man on the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnytbh I thgink Cotto tired because of the amount of movement he had to do alongside the fact that Tony was pounding his ribs at every given opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
The nose certainly was an issue.
He did well to do so well with it for what 8-9 rounds?
Margarito was conditioned like a 15 round fighter.
Nothing like the Phillips vs Tszyu fight that was seen more as a one off fluke.
people see 5 defeats and think hmm but the guy lost 3x before he was 18yo so really they mean squat the Santos loss was a cut eye. And he lost to Williams by one round, Margarito will beat Cotto quicker if they fought again Cotto will again lose heart mid fight when Tony is running him down he knows he cant stop him.
The Phillips fight was in no way a fluke. There wasn't many who could do it, but Tszyu just didn't like raw pressure like that provided by Phillips it's just that there were only 2 guys in his career who were able to provide that type of pressure.
It's a good comparision, I see some people talking down on Cotto after this but no one is going to beat Cotto the same way Tony did because there is just no one else like Tony at 147.
Its nothing alike.
Phillips like Rahman did very little before or after.Margarito was already a solid 2x champion and took his 3rd title off Cotto. The difference in levels is vast.
OK but if you look at the style matchup which is actually what determines fights not career accomplishments, Phillips was a nightmare matchup for Tszyu for the reasons I stated much the same way Margarito is a bad match up for Cotto.
Yes but as ive mentioned before Tszyu was in terrible shape going into that fight. He admits he was beggining to feel invincible and was not training like he should and even got out of shape between fights which he never did again even when he was injured for nearly 2 years. It taught him a big lesson which he learned from and then went unbeaten until he was almost 36 when he was certainly a bit over the hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
If they rematch i just see it being similar to Pavlik - Taylor 2, with Cotto trying to survive an a close fight. That's about as good as i see it getting for Cotto. I'd give him practically 10% chance, at best of beating Tony.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
On the other hand, there's a chance that Cotto won't be mentally strong enough to take punishment for anywhere near 11 rounds. So yeah it could be over even quicker.
I just see Tony winning everytime to be honest. I think Cotto is better in most aspects (especially technical) but Margario's will is awesome.
Margrito loses when he was younger dont count for me but his loses to Paul and Santos i can see were because they were his size or bigger. I have watch alot of Margrito and seems to me that he has trouble when he not the bigger man just do not know what it is but seems mess him up.
Why do people keep saying he lost to Daniel Santos ? that was a hometown decision for Daniel Santos Antonio Margarito deserved to win and if anyone has watched the fight they would know that themselves plus that was at 154.............
He did lose to Paul Williams fair a square due to Paul Williams being bad style match up Antonio Margarito looking past Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito taking too long to warm up..........
As for this thread its nothing like Vince Phillips vs Kostya Tszyu Antonio Margarito was an avoided fighter and had defended his world title multiple times where as Vince Phillips was never seen as avoided name and was just seen as a one hit wonder mediocre fighter i can see your point regarding styles because Vince Phillips did put on alot of pressure and broke Kostya Tszyu's will similar to Antonio Margarito vs Miguel Cotto but thats where the comparison ends.
Look all i said was that Tony struggles with fighters that are as big as him or bigger look the Santos fight was close and do not care about the weight divsion and Paul yet another fighter Tony had no size advantage over and made him look bad and not like the tough mexican terminator i think because of Tonys style he has trouble with bigger guys he faces so anything over welter do not think he while do well so i hope he gets all the fights he can because he can not keep this weight for ever it is impossible.
Not to sound disrecpectful but i actually wasn't talking to you my comment was directed at the topic creator if my comment was directed at you i would of quoted you and of course it matters if Antonio Margarito lost at a higher weight class...........Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Because his physical advantages aren't as apparant at that weight class nor is his strength i thought that was obvious...........
And like i'll say again anybody who watched Daniel Santos vs Antonio Margarito knows it was a gift decision for Daniel Santos.
Sorry all i am saying is that it is a surprise how much of a difference it does make when coming to Tony its like watching a different fighter.
IMO he would have been better off if he got concussed or UD. When you make a career out of beating the fighter right out of your opponent, then that gets done to you, I would assume it leaves you always vulnerable in the future when you have to go into the trenches again.. The mental and emotional scars of this fight will run deep and hurt long after the physical ones healQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Thats a distinct possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockIMO he would have been better off if he got concussed or UD. When you make a career out of beating the fighter right out of your opponent, then that gets done to you, I would assume it leaves you always vulnerable in the future when you have to go into the trenches again.. The mental and emotional scars of this fight will run deep and hurt long after the physical ones healQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
But I feel had Cotto somehow survived he would have been badly Ko'ed in the final round.
Margarito was relatively fresh, Cotto had expended everything he had warding off Margo in the first 8 - 9.
Cotto just came out on Boxingscene saying "Margarito was better on the night." and "I will be back."
Curiously he also stated "I'll be back better prepared," rather than I'll be back better.
Regardless, the guys put on a spectacular show. There were skills, speed, accuracy, timing, tenacity, power, heart, blood, sweat and tears.
We couldn't have asked for any more as they provided it all for us.